It seems to vary a bit, some cases of it in the anime it seems to stem from bad experiences with the evolved form (Ash's Pikachu and Surge's Raichu and Team Rocket's Meowth and that Persian in Pokewood). Dawn's Piplup wanted to get stronger as Piplup rather than evolving. Ash's Rowlet is just really attached to its Everstone and doesn't care enough about evolving to leave it aside for long enough to evolve.
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- Thread starter antemortem
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I find this particular reason bullshit because evolved Pokémon are fairly consistently depicted as stronger overall in the anime. Even Ash's strongest Pokémon sans Pikachu are his fully evolved ones. The real reason was clearly "Piplup is cute and marketable".
The writers could have at least tried to tie it into how a cute smol mon would be more appealing in Contests or something.
The better reasoning would have been the original reasoning that Ash's Pikachu beat Surge's Raichu, their size/ability to learn moves (or in non stone evolutions case, ability to learn moves quicker).
There really isn't a 'good' reasoning for not evolving your Pokemon aside from waiting to learn a level up move (and I doubt in the anime they would know about when mons learn moves, though I believe they know about levels since in the Indigo Plateau or Orange Islands arc, Bulbasaur was shown to be level 88 or smthing), but at the very least, this could be waved off as good enough reasoning.
There really isn't a 'good' reasoning for not evolving your Pokemon aside from waiting to learn a level up move (and I doubt in the anime they would know about when mons learn moves, though I believe they know about levels since in the Indigo Plateau or Orange Islands arc, Bulbasaur was shown to be level 88 or smthing), but at the very least, this could be waved off as good enough reasoning.
I don't think this reasoning makes sense for the anime verse because it's trying to go for a slightly more realistic(?) bend. Or at least a less gamified one. Levels stop actually existing at some point and TMs are just flat-out missing. Pokémon just learn moves over time via general training (or the occasional deus ex machina) and there really isn't a good reason why evolution would/should play into that.
Size could technically be a factor but this also doesn't really seem to functionally matter for combat performance in the anime. Larger Pokémon can still be fast. Hell, Ash's Sceptile gets the jump on Speed Forme Deoxys!
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I'd point to not look too deep into the Pikachu x Raichu thing..
Anything related to early Pokemon (be it games or media) is to always be taken with a grain of salt. Back then there was little to no logic involved in the writing, it was just about making if cool for kids.
In case you forgot, in the early anime you could actually occasionally see "normal animals" like dogs or insects around humans, or the whole concept of "what happens to kangashkan's kid when it leaves the mother/father, does it magically grow a kid out of nowhere?".
(Edit: how could I forget Pikachu hitting a wet onyx with electricity?)
Any time you try to put logic in 10+ year old episodes, somewhere in the world a kid gets kidnapped by a Drifloon.
Stop trying to put logic into old media. Think of the children.
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You do have a point. Whilst I understand that anime is used to promote Pokemon and its pals, it kinda makes it predictable, especially when it focuses on it more than storytelling.
Like it's no concidence that Uroto happened to have a Dragonite, that a few weeks earlier it can mega evolve.
Eh, different continuities aren't necessarily bound by the same rules. G-Max Pikachu being unable to evolve in the games and Ash's Pikachu being able to Gigantamax is more of a happy accident, if anything - there's a mechanical reason the NFE GMaxes can't evolve in the games so it's not like that was done with the intention of it paying off in the anime. What I'm getting at is that if the writers wanted to have Ash's Pikachu evolve in the anime I don't think they'd let the fact that he was able to Gigantamax stop them.
And I would actually make the case that it weakens the original arc of Pikachu deliberately and consciously not wanting to change to say "well, he couldn't have done so anyway even if he'd tried". It feels like fixing a plot hole that never was and it's a trope I feel like I see in a lot lately (the whole "they were inherently special all along" thing - it's so ubiquitous in long-running media).
Unless you want to theorise reeeeeeally wildly and say that Pikachu's stubbornness and strength of will was so immensely powerful it metastasised inside him and gave him the Gigantamax Factor, which... actually squares the circle in quite a nice way now I think of it. And isn't all that out of line with the way willpower has been portrayed in this universe.
I noted this a while back as I rewatched the original series a few months ago when they started being put on Youtube.
Given the target audience, I think they were leaning into the idea of "I don't want to grow up" quite hard, but for a lot of Ash's Pokemon in particular it often came off more as "I'm fine as I am, thanks, and I won't be told by you or anyone else that I have to change". There's quite a strong message of non-conformity there, particularly with Bulbasaur refusing the call to join others of its kind in evolving at a certain time - it's literally not following the crowd, and holds its ground by saying "I'll do this when I want". Which is basically in tune with Ash's personal philosophy of doing things his own way.
Evolved Pokemon in the anime are shown to be generally stronger as a rule of thumb but there's nuance to it; a lot of the time we're shown that impressive-looking Pokemon actually... aren't. Ash's Charizard, for instance, is big and strong and typically wins its early fights by virtue of that (in Johto, Misty calls Ash out for using it to easily win against smaller unevolved opponents) but it's poorly-trained and disobedient and when it gets compared against multiple others of its kind it's shown to be much weaker than they are. In one of the episodes I've just watched Ash and Misty get into a dispute with three trainers and Tracey observes that each of their Pokemon is lacking in some way: one is vitamin-deficient, one has poor colouring, and one needs more exercise.
And even though levels don't exist in the same fashion as the games, the advantages to delaying evolution are still shown to exist in a similar manner: in the Bulbasaur episode, for instance, it defeats Team Rocket by learning Solarbeam, something it's only able to do thanks to delaying evolution. And, of course, as in the games, some Pokemon are outright unable to learn certain moves after evolving; Brock explicitly calls out Surge's Raichu as not having learned the speed moves it could only learn as a Pikachu (which is true of all the games up to SwSh). That doesn't make his Raichu weak - obviously not, since it defeats countless challengers' Pokemon with ease - it's just a flaw in its method.
Granted, it's never really explained in either continuity why exactly delaying evolution results in quicker acquisition of moves - I mean, the gameplay reason is obvious, but I mean a lore reason. Whatever the case, it's fairly evident that age =/= evolution, and that maturity and wisdom are qualities unevolved Pokemon are just as capable of having as evolved ones.
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Are baby pokemon the exception then?
I mean, kind of? They're, well... babies, so are by nature sillier and more impulsive and impetuous than other species; Misty's Togepi for instance was quite badly behaved a lot of the time. But that's generally because they're literally very young - we see other newly-hatched Pokemon that aren't nominally babies behave in a similar infant-like manner, like Ash's Phanpy and Larvitar, Lillie's Vulpix, May's Eevee, and Dawn's Cyndaquil.
Not sure if this was intended as a gotcha or not but there's a fair few baby Pokemon in various continuities that are shown to be pretty powerful - Ukelele Pichu, that one Aura Sphere Riolu, May's Munchlax, Diamond's Munchlax, Brock's Happiny, Ash's Riolu, Paul's Elekid - generally as a result of good care and training, and several don't evolve at all (which backs up my original point)
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My issue with this portrayal, which may just be on the anime's bad writing than the idea itself, is that in Pikachu's case I swear this idea only ever seems to come up in the context of "Big Bad Raichu beat me up, but I don't want to take a shortcut to win" to the point that the Sinnoh incident with Sho directly calls back to Lt. Surge with the same Thunderstone Ash refused to use that time. I don't feel like this paints a particularly fair picture because in both cases the idea of Pikachu evolving is not presented as a neutral choice that Pikachu elects not to take, but a negative that comes across as stooping to an antagonistic rival's level (compare Bulbasaur where the Garden and evolution ceremony is not itself presented negatively with the other Ivysaur/Venusaur being fair/good mons, only the fact that Bulbasaur is being strong-armed into it).
If Pikachu simply did not want to evolve and it was an unspoken agreement, this would be fine with me, but these are the explicit points at which they call attention to it and it paints the idea of Pikachu evolving as an objective negative. To a degree it also feels a bit like mascot shilling, the same vibe I got with Leon and his "regular beats Mega" Charizard match against Alain. I don't hold it to the degree of demonizing Raichu itself since the evolved mon has plenty of positive portrayals, but it still feels overdone the 2nd go around for "look how good the mascot is!" (Pikachu is cute, it is NOT strong unless you're an anime character).
I wouldn't mind this so much if they addressed the matter outside those particular contexts, whether it's Pikachu perhaps consoling a mon that can't/doesn't want to evolve like a Male Salandit/Combee, or even just raising the idea of "I want to evolve one day, but on my own terms, not to beat a jerk"
My theory is that even if evolution is not 1-1 with aging, it does still have a physical correlation. Baby Pokemon are less physically capable than evolved/"adult" stages, but conversely, unevolved Pokemon might be akin to children/adolescents having more adaptable brains/habits, as in the hormones and chemistry etc, that makes learning easier for them ("Old Dog/New Tricks" idea in a way).
In some mons this is as extreme as Stone Evos flat out not learning further moves (perhaps because you can induce it rapidly rather than "gradually" by raising as Friendship or Levels are meant to approximate), but it also would make sense if you think of a "Teenage" Quilava being faster to pick up the ideas for Flamethrower than the "Adult" bodied/brained Typhlosion.
Well it wasn't, i was more questioning your point.
Though that point right there does make me question what evolution even is in pokemon if its not tied to age or even battle experience, i mean its sort of implied to be a natural thing right? But if it is natural how can a pokemon just.. not do it? like it would kinda make sense if they were holding off on doing it till later but some pokemon just dont evolve period.
Its just odd to me considering even if some pokemon dont want to evolve NOW they wouldve had to at some point whether it be through experience or because of their own bond with their trainers (Happiness/Affection) or even just being traded away
All good then :)
Well, we see old unevolved Pokemon in the anime sometimes (like there's a very aged Treecko I recall from one of the Hoenn episodes, and that surfing Pikachu the group meet in Kanto who's at least 40 years old), so it's definitely not age. I would say that it is tied to battle experience, it's just that the two don't go hand-in-hand - you can have a wealth of experience without having to evolve, or even being able to. I guess I would just view it as a process which can happen, but not one which necessarily will happen - it's just transitioning to a new form or stage of life, but not everyone does that (at the same time, or at all).
Like, you can fight Bug Catchers in HGSS who have unevolved Weedle and Metapod way beyond the point they should evolve, but conversely Lance has several Dragonite significantly below level 55. You can find wild Pokemon that are evolved yet hugely underlevelled; you can also find wild Pokemon long past the levels they should have evolved at. Obviously levels are a gameplay mechanic, but my take on this has always been that the skill of the Pokemon and trainers is the crucial factor here - maybe those underlevelled Pokemon are skilful enough to evolve far earlier than is typical and maybe those "overdue" ones are simply weak and developmentally lagging behind.
In the Adventures manga Cheren's Snivy fails to evolve despite being his first Pokemon, which Black is confused by - the implication seems to be that they didn't bond properly and that lack of fulfilling connection is what's holding it back. Which I've always found such an interesting notion, it's kind of analagous to a person not being able to move past trauma or a psychological issue and allow themselves to "grow" emotionally.
Would they have to, though? I remember when I first did the Battle Tower in Sapphire being surprised to see my opponent use a level 100 Shuppet.
Similarly the trading thing is largely a gameplay contrivance; in other continuities we sometimes see those Pokemon evolve through other ways (like Misty's Politoed).
It doesn't really matter much cuz for Pikachu, Raichu literally was there
Ivysaur was admittedly not introduced till ep 47 (which is mostly Chansey oriented), but Venusaur was generally more commonly seen (already in Ep 20 for the illusion, alongside Blastoise). Attack pose wise, there isn't too much a difference between Bulba and later lines, besides I guess drawing the flower
It also is weird cuz Charmander evolved, same for Caterpie. Misty also double mained Staryu/Starmie, so using multiple mons in the same line was already not really a rule
Like if it's for animation optimization they did a terrible job...being restrictive. They made model sheets for all 151 mons at the time, regardless of errors from interpreting art (Golduck having 5 horns, Fearow's tail which later GF canonized, Clefairy's eyes, Eevee's tail, etc)
Ivysaur was admittedly not introduced till ep 47 (which is mostly Chansey oriented), but Venusaur was generally more commonly seen (already in Ep 20 for the illusion, alongside Blastoise). Attack pose wise, there isn't too much a difference between Bulba and later lines, besides I guess drawing the flower
It also is weird cuz Charmander evolved, same for Caterpie. Misty also double mained Staryu/Starmie, so using multiple mons in the same line was already not really a rule
Like if it's for animation optimization they did a terrible job...being restrictive. They made model sheets for all 151 mons at the time, regardless of errors from interpreting art (Golduck having 5 horns, Fearow's tail which later GF canonized, Clefairy's eyes, Eevee's tail, etc)
The Pseudo Legendaries are somewhat overrated and not well-designed, but not for the reasons you might think. It’s not necessarily because most of them are dragon type, as since using the same typing repeatedly is annoying, they’re supposed to be divine creatures, and therefore expected to be strong. No, it’s because all of them are mechanically repetitive: most of them are physical attackers, with just a Dragon Dance + Sweep (or in Garchomp’s case, Scale Shot + Sweep). Sure, there might be exceptions, like Dragonite being bulky with Roost + Multiscale, Garchomp having Spikes + Stealth Rock as entry hazards, Salamence has Intimidate, and Baxcalibur having unique bulkness with Thermal Body + Ice Body & Aurora Veil. But when you look at it, all of them are the same. Some of them could run mixed coverage like Flamethrower, but that’s not their main bread and butter, and even when they do, it’s just to catch Steel-types like Skarmory or Ferrothorn off guard.
However, having them share the same typing can be fine if they can work in different ways. For example, when you have Chesnaught and Hisui-Decidueye, you can’t reasonably compare the two as the same thing. This is because Chesnaught is more of a defensive mon, with Spikes to set up hazards, Synthesis and Leech Seed to improve its bulk, and Bulletproof to dodge bullet moves like Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb, whereas Hisui-D is designed as an offensive mon with Triple Arrows, U-Turn and Close Combat (Chesnaught has to use Body Press to avoid defense drops). This incomparability can also be applied to Lucario and Cobalion (one’s a frail lightning bruiser and the other is a utility mon) or Haxorus & Druddigon (Glass cannon vs. utility mon) or Gen 1 Rhydon vs Golem. Even Emboar shouldn’t be compared to other fire-fighting Pokémon like Infernape, Blaziken, or even Cinderace (not a fighting type but like the rest it's also a fire physical mon), because at least GF tried to make it a bulky fire-fighting Pokémon, which was unique (even though it wasn’t successful).
Now look at Garchomp. You think it's unique because of its design, but the main problem is that it's just a better Flygon. Cause it has a higher attack stat, is slightly faster, has Spikes, and a more usable ability in Rough Skin. The only things Flygon has are Levitate, Dragon Dance (which isn’t much, given its mediocre attack), Roost, and Defog (which, even then, he lost in SV). It doesn’t help that Flygon never got a Mega Evolution, but Garchomp did. You could even argue Garchomp is a better Salamence because of its slightly faster speed, and Ground fits better with Dragon than flying due to being super effective against Steels (the only type to resist Dragon at the time).
That’s not to say that all pseudo-dragons weren’t designed carefully, because some are unique and broke the mold:
Unfortunately, none of them that I just listed will be as popular or have a high-meta-defining history as the other dragon pseudo-legendaries, except Tyranitar.
And that trend would likely continue, considering that Dragonite got a mega evolution, whilst the other pseudo-dragons would be left in the dust. It would be one thing if Mega Dragonite acted differently from its standard form, like Venusaur, but I don’t think that’s likely.
However, having them share the same typing can be fine if they can work in different ways. For example, when you have Chesnaught and Hisui-Decidueye, you can’t reasonably compare the two as the same thing. This is because Chesnaught is more of a defensive mon, with Spikes to set up hazards, Synthesis and Leech Seed to improve its bulk, and Bulletproof to dodge bullet moves like Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb, whereas Hisui-D is designed as an offensive mon with Triple Arrows, U-Turn and Close Combat (Chesnaught has to use Body Press to avoid defense drops). This incomparability can also be applied to Lucario and Cobalion (one’s a frail lightning bruiser and the other is a utility mon) or Haxorus & Druddigon (Glass cannon vs. utility mon) or Gen 1 Rhydon vs Golem. Even Emboar shouldn’t be compared to other fire-fighting Pokémon like Infernape, Blaziken, or even Cinderace (not a fighting type but like the rest it's also a fire physical mon), because at least GF tried to make it a bulky fire-fighting Pokémon, which was unique (even though it wasn’t successful).
Now look at Garchomp. You think it's unique because of its design, but the main problem is that it's just a better Flygon. Cause it has a higher attack stat, is slightly faster, has Spikes, and a more usable ability in Rough Skin. The only things Flygon has are Levitate, Dragon Dance (which isn’t much, given its mediocre attack), Roost, and Defog (which, even then, he lost in SV). It doesn’t help that Flygon never got a Mega Evolution, but Garchomp did. You could even argue Garchomp is a better Salamence because of its slightly faster speed, and Ground fits better with Dragon than flying due to being super effective against Steels (the only type to resist Dragon at the time).
That’s not to say that all pseudo-dragons weren’t designed carefully, because some are unique and broke the mold:
- Hydregion - Stands out by being more focused as a Dark-Type, due to its brutal and wicked nature. Whilst it's not as fast and initially powerful as the other dragons, it stands out because of its unique typing, U-turn, Taunt, and defensive uses in being immune to Pranksters, Psychic, and Ground attacks.
- Dragapult - Stands out by being incredibly fast and has a variety of moves that include Dragon Darts, U-Turn, Shadow Force, Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, etc. It also differentiates itself by initially being weaker, as it has a high attack but less reliable physical moves, and a variety of special attack moves, but only a decent special attack stat.
- Kommo-o - Another mixed attacker that stands out for its mixed utility with Stealth Rock, Taunt, Drain Punch, Soundproof, and Bulletproof, and has a balanced stat spread of 110 Attack / 100 Sp. Atk / 125 Defense / 105 Sp. Def. It even has two signature moves: Clanging Scales, A powerful Dragon-type special move, and Clangorous Soul, which boosts all stats at the cost of HP.
- Even Goodra counts because at least it tries to work as a defensive Dragon special wall, with Hydration. It doesn’t get praise as much, tho, because it’s not as viable as the other dragons due to its mono typing, lack of reliable recovery, and no offensive power.
Unfortunately, none of them that I just listed will be as popular or have a high-meta-defining history as the other dragon pseudo-legendaries, except Tyranitar.
And that trend would likely continue, considering that Dragonite got a mega evolution, whilst the other pseudo-dragons would be left in the dust. It would be one thing if Mega Dragonite acted differently from its standard form, like Venusaur, but I don’t think that’s likely.
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Hydreigon to me has always felt incredibly underpowered; I've never really liked using it or felt like I was getting the best out of it. Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, and Garchomp all have Attack stats of 130 or over, but Hydreigon's corresponding 125 Special Attack just feels a smidge too low - there's a whole bunch of Pokemon who can boast higher scores than that. Compounding this is the fact that most Special moves tend to have slightly lower base power, so it's one of those attackers which often seems to fall short of an OHKO with non-STABed hits.
And this would be fine, as Gen V is where they started mixing the typical stat spread of these Pokemon up a bit more, but unlike Kommo-o or Goodra or Dragapult, Hydreigon doesn't really get much of a tradeoff in terms of its other stats, either. It's not quite as fast as it wants to be and while its defensive stats are great, its Dark typing means it's vulnerable to a LOT of common attacks so it doesn't really get the benefit of this. Sure it's got the Attack to be a physical or mixed sweeper but so do all the other Dragons, and it didn't get Dragon Dance until Gen VIII anyway.
Granted, I've mainly only used it in Gen V & VII's battle facilities and I'm sure gaining access to Nasty Plot and Dragon Dance made it a whole lot better than it was. But it would be even better if its stats were actually built around making it a truly powerful special sweeper.
Conversely, I used Kommo-o quite a bit in the Battle Tree (Multis) and found it great, but that's only because it's basically dependent on Clangorous Soulblaze; it was basically always used at the first opportunity. And Kommo-o has kind of the perfect stat spread for an omniboost; it could use slightly better HP, but most non-Fairy attacks will fail to OHKO it anyway.
Not used it beyond Gen VII so can't really comment on how it plays outside of that.
My issue with Goodra has always been that they were going for a more defensive bent with this one which is cool - but they seemingly didn't want to nerf its offensive presence too hard, so they crippled its physical Defence stat instead which really hobbles it as a wall. Tyranitar has better overall bulk (even discounting the boost sandy weather gives it). Goodra's physical Attack feels like such a waste to me, it doesn't even get Dragon Dance.
So you end up with a regional form that utterly outclasses it because it has a stat spread more in line with what Kalosian Goodra should have originally had (and a better typing to boot).
I think I can understand where you are coming from regarding Hydregion, Kommo-o and Goodra.
However, what I am arguing is not on how they are supposed to be strong like the other pseudo dragons (Garchomp, Dragonite, Baxcalibur and Salamence) and rehasing their playstyle, but rather breaking the mold and having a unique kit and playstyle.
If people are dissapointed, it can be on how player expected it to be the same mechanically as the other popular psuedo-dragons.
What I'm saying is for not all psuedo-legendaries have to be equally viable or even dominant: it would be a tall task and it might face in harsher powercreep. What I am asking is for the pseudo-legendaries to be different in not just their stats and how they're distributed, but the main role they perform. I would prefer that over being highly viable.
However, what I am arguing is not on how they are supposed to be strong like the other pseudo dragons (Garchomp, Dragonite, Baxcalibur and Salamence) and rehasing their playstyle, but rather breaking the mold and having a unique kit and playstyle.
You mentioned that Hydregion's special attack isn't high enough, but that's what sets it apart from the other psuedo-dragons, it's not trying to be a dominant sweeper, but rather on how different it is by being a special utility mon, like with Taunt, U-turn, Tailwind and immune to Psychic and Ground attacks and Spikes. Its Dark typing gives it immunity to Prankster status moves like Taunt or Thunder Wave. It even has useful spread coverage like Heat Wave and Snarl.
If people are dissapointed, it can be on how player expected it to be the same mechanically as the other popular psuedo-dragons.
The fact that Kommo-o has a signature move already makes it stand out from others; and since it boosts both special attack and the attack stat, it can run both physical, special or even a mixed set. Kommo's design gives it a lot flexibility through that and utility moves that makes it stand out.
Whilst yes sadly it's not a really good dragon wall, at least it's still unique. The fact that it's unviable is less on its design (which I noted on how they tried to make one) and more on its execution. At least they made it up with Hisuian Goodra, who is part Steel type and makes it stand out from the rest.
What I'm saying is for not all psuedo-legendaries have to be equally viable or even dominant: it would be a tall task and it might face in harsher powercreep. What I am asking is for the pseudo-legendaries to be different in not just their stats and how they're distributed, but the main role they perform. I would prefer that over being highly viable.
I would say that the pseudo-legendaries actually feel more distinct when you start to look at them more from a Doubles perspective, especially given VGC, the official competitive format, is a Doubles oriented metagame. Now Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, and Metagross were from before VGC actually took off in Gen 4, but all of them do feel a bit different from one another when you account for a Doubles environment. Granted, not all of them are necessarily viable in VGC, but many of them have seen use in VGC in at least their debut gens.
Dragonite has Inner Focus. A Fake Out immunity is cool. Also Extreme Speed, which in tandem with Tera Normal has actually given it some niches in the current generation's VGC, combined with good overall bulk.
Tyranitar has Sand Stream, and weather even post-nerf is still a powerful force in Doubles. Not to mention a good spread attack in Rock Slide.
Salamence has Intimidate, one of the best abilities out there in Doubles. This gave it some good VGC uses every now and then, and Mega Salamence was cool in VGC in tandem with base, even though Incineroar, Hitmontop, and Arcanine have historically been more iconic as Intimidate users.
Metagross is a good tank overall, and it's been a pretty prominent force in VGC historically.
Garchomp is fairly straightforward, hits hard and fast. Has a spread attack STAB in Earthquake.
Hydreigon has Snarl for spread utility, and hard hitting Draco Meteor and coverage. Its all-around, specially oriented statline is a bit eh in Singles but gives it some interesting use in Doubles with a partner, especially with a Prankster immunity, Tailwind, and U-turn to top it off as extra tools.
Goodra is actually pretty interesting. It has weather resistances, Sap Sipper for Sun, Hydration for Rain, and Gooey to slow a sweeper down, and can blanket check a lot of Special Attackers in Doubles. Feint is also a tool in its arsenal to break Protect.
Kommo-o has Soundproof, an ability that can make it immune to partners' sound-based moves like Boomburst or Sparkling Aria in Doubles, and Hyper Voice from opponents. It also has a spread attack in Clanging Scales.
Dragapult is fast, has Clear Body to be immune to Intimidate, is immune to Fake Out, and has Dragon Darts (hits both targets, will hit one twice if one Protects) and Phantom Force (a fast Phantom Force both hits hard in Doubles and bypasses+breaks Protect).
Baxcalibur is also a bit straightforward but can be good in Doubles with alternation of Glaive Rush+Protect and priority in Ice Shard, plus good bulk.
They all do have some distinct qualities, but in some cases they're not immediately obvious. Many of them feel a tad more geared towards shining in a Doubles environment than a Singles environment.
Dragonite has Inner Focus. A Fake Out immunity is cool. Also Extreme Speed, which in tandem with Tera Normal has actually given it some niches in the current generation's VGC, combined with good overall bulk.
Tyranitar has Sand Stream, and weather even post-nerf is still a powerful force in Doubles. Not to mention a good spread attack in Rock Slide.
Salamence has Intimidate, one of the best abilities out there in Doubles. This gave it some good VGC uses every now and then, and Mega Salamence was cool in VGC in tandem with base, even though Incineroar, Hitmontop, and Arcanine have historically been more iconic as Intimidate users.
Metagross is a good tank overall, and it's been a pretty prominent force in VGC historically.
Garchomp is fairly straightforward, hits hard and fast. Has a spread attack STAB in Earthquake.
Hydreigon has Snarl for spread utility, and hard hitting Draco Meteor and coverage. Its all-around, specially oriented statline is a bit eh in Singles but gives it some interesting use in Doubles with a partner, especially with a Prankster immunity, Tailwind, and U-turn to top it off as extra tools.
Goodra is actually pretty interesting. It has weather resistances, Sap Sipper for Sun, Hydration for Rain, and Gooey to slow a sweeper down, and can blanket check a lot of Special Attackers in Doubles. Feint is also a tool in its arsenal to break Protect.
Kommo-o has Soundproof, an ability that can make it immune to partners' sound-based moves like Boomburst or Sparkling Aria in Doubles, and Hyper Voice from opponents. It also has a spread attack in Clanging Scales.
Dragapult is fast, has Clear Body to be immune to Intimidate, is immune to Fake Out, and has Dragon Darts (hits both targets, will hit one twice if one Protects) and Phantom Force (a fast Phantom Force both hits hard in Doubles and bypasses+breaks Protect).
Baxcalibur is also a bit straightforward but can be good in Doubles with alternation of Glaive Rush+Protect and priority in Ice Shard, plus good bulk.
They all do have some distinct qualities, but in some cases they're not immediately obvious. Many of them feel a tad more geared towards shining in a Doubles environment than a Singles environment.
I know y'all said Hydreigon felt weak, but honestly Salamence is worse in comp originality. It's literally Rayquaza 2.0, Mega being its only distinction cuz aerilate stab spam. Intimidate is great for doubles, but it's specially quad weak to Ice regardless
Seriously, the DP Ubers description on Smogon straight up is calling it Ray Quay 2.0, needing to partner with Ray
Seriously, the DP Ubers description on Smogon straight up is calling it Ray Quay 2.0, needing to partner with Ray
That's interesting; I suppose Doubles does allow Pokémon to be more diverse, like Hydregion with Tailwind and Snarl. It helps that some pseudo-mons, like Tyranitar and Garchomp, have STAB spread moves, which overall make them more like a teammate rather than a stand-alone mon. Plus, some mons do stand out and work better in doubles compared to singles and vice versa, like how Skarmory is great in singles but not in Doubles.
Granted, it doesn't really solve the overuse of them being designed as physical-oriented sweepers in singles, especially as in early generations doubles wasn't really a thing, but I do guess when you have the little things that can be more useful in doubles like Tailwind, it could make them more unique.
Which led me to wonder, when GF designs a Pokémon in terms of its typing, abilities, and move pool, is it from a singles or a doubles perspective? I know there are Pokémon like Indeedee & Clefairy (both have Follow Me), and Incineroar that work in doubles, but then you have Amoonguss, which can work in both. I assumed that Pokémon are designed with singles in mind, especially since mainline games mostly feature single battles.
Both, but predominantly Doubles.
Singles exist as official format, but it's a 3v3 format with bring 3 out of 6. Which is VERY different from "bring 6" as it lets you carry niche mons you'd only pull once in a while and don't mind being deadweight the other time. Also why things like Supreme Overlord or Last Respects arent problematic: when there's at most 3 or 4 pokemon, they don't remotely stack to the absurd power they can stack to in a 6v6 scenario.
We do not talk of the Urshifu incident though. That time when they made 3 pokemon mainly to counter Dynamax then forgot to nerf one of them after Dynamax was removed
There's a difference between "Model sheet and shows up on one enemy team" vs "member of Ash's team", though. The Ash/Misty/Brock mons have to be animated eating, walking, playing, etc, while a Venomoth or Feraligatr just shows up, uses 2 attacks, and faints to a NVE attack. Charmeleon and Caterpie are good examples, actually. Charmander spends 1 whole episode as a Charmeleon before evolving again, minimizing the amount of animations needed. Caterpie goes all the way to Butterfree over the course of 2 episodes.
I'm not saying evolution was banned or anything. I'm saying that protagonist pokemon are essentially unique characters, and changing their designs took enough effort that it wasn't done without good reason.
If it's predominantly doubles, it's a bit of a shame. I get that vgc is the official tournament for pokemon, so doubles would get popular but it ends up creating an imbalance of mons. Like how Palafin is broken in singles because but kinda tame in doubles, due to how long singles matches take.
Plus, there's no tiering system for Doubles in Smogon like for Singles (OU, UU, RU and so on), so we can't play with lower tiered mons if we wanted to.
Or how there's no official tournament for singles like doubles has for VGC, for those that prefer playing singles but wanna win big like VGC.
If I am wrong, please let me know, I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to pokemon competitive.