-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Announcement UMPL V - Format Discussion Thread
- Thread starter sleid
- Start date
I don't really have strong opinions on anything other than
12 Slots
Regarding 2v2 honestly I think the playerbase overlap with 1v1 is a bit overstated, we can field 16 slots fine and even if some of those aren't dedicated 2v2 players it's a fun tier to learn and with at least 1 dedicated 2v2 player per team you can learn and be passed teams if necessary pretty easily. If NFE can field a second slot then this tour should 100% be 12 slots.
3rd Managers
I think this should definitely be at least an option for those that want it but I don't think it should be forced because 2 managers has been fine historically.
12 Slots
Regarding 2v2 honestly I think the playerbase overlap with 1v1 is a bit overstated, we can field 16 slots fine and even if some of those aren't dedicated 2v2 players it's a fun tier to learn and with at least 1 dedicated 2v2 player per team you can learn and be passed teams if necessary pretty easily. If NFE can field a second slot then this tour should 100% be 12 slots.
3rd Managers
I think this should definitely be at least an option for those that want it but I don't think it should be forced because 2 managers has been fine historically.
Hi wanted to give my opinions!
Retains: I’m personally against this idea, but not 100% against it
Franchise: Sure why not they sound funny
UMFL: Sure why not they sound funny
12 Slots: I don’t see why not, especially with 6 UMs, this allots for fair representation for all
3rd Manager: With 6 UMs, having 2 managers that can cover all of them could be difficult, and so a 3rd makes this easier. As mentioned earlier, this should be a option not a flat out requirement, although I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want even more support…
I will say, while I’m all for 3rd managers, I do want to highlight this real quick
Self-buys: I could write a whole ass thing for this, but I’d just be rewriting what has already been said, so I will be keeping them simple. 15k first purchase 20k second no third buy. Honestly, even only one manager being to self buy isn’t too too bad, but that might demotivate some people from managing so ehh…
Retains: I’m personally against this idea, but not 100% against it
Franchise: Sure why not they sound funny
UMFL: Sure why not they sound funny
12 Slots: I don’t see why not, especially with 6 UMs, this allots for fair representation for all
3rd Manager: With 6 UMs, having 2 managers that can cover all of them could be difficult, and so a 3rd makes this easier. As mentioned earlier, this should be a option not a flat out requirement, although I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want even more support…
I will say, while I’m all for 3rd managers, I do want to highlight this real quick
This is a valid point, which is what keeping from being 100 percent for 3rd managers, and honestly, UMFL can be a nice way to test if 3rd manager is fine
Self-buys: I could write a whole ass thing for this, but I’d just be rewriting what has already been said, so I will be keeping them simple. 15k first purchase 20k second no third buy. Honestly, even only one manager being to self buy isn’t too too bad, but that might demotivate some people from managing so ehh…
Also after having a talk with my other UM friends and a small discussion in the UM discord server. I would like to put up the discussion for the total credits.
Proposal :-
Since it is more likely that UMPL will be 3 managers so considering that fact, i would say that if u allow 2 manager self buys, make it such that the total credit after self buys is divisible among 3 managers equally (e.g. - 150k then 120k after 2 self buys, say. It is divisible by 3 as 40k for each manger). However this is just a proposal.
Possibilities :-
With the 2 manager format, should be pretty simple. The total credits that can be used are :-
If 10 slots:
Preference (in order from 1 to 5) :-
2. To be honest, I like this idea too but 160k is a lot of budget. It can make a team overpowered and at the same time, u can build a literal army of 30 players in a team lol which turns out to be an issue cuz of clash of too many opinions among players and subs. That's the only reason why I am against this. Rest the format seems fine about this
3. 10 slots isn't much and having a 13 player team is kind of a lack of activity i suppose ? But like it used to be the optimum team composition back in earlier days so I trust this format. And having 3 subs pretty much covers that issue so yea it's a preference as well
4. 140k is fine with 4 sub slots but once again, having 10 slots is the point here. It makes the team overpowered and gives opportunity to upbid recklessly. And once again, a team can have around 20 players in this format, so not much in favour for it. Though I liked it last year, this year I don't think it would do the same because of the new bloods that have been going crazy in tours all around
5. Pretty less budget if u ask me and having only 12 players makes it tougher to sub in. With only 2 subs, we can't realistically do anything though we have 3 managers. Additionally once 2 players r subbed in, u can't sub more in a week and I have seen many tours go all out subbing by week 7 if they are out / already qualified so not a fan of this at all.
With this, I once again want to ssy the same thing. Let me know your thoughts down below. And hoping everyone a good luck and have fun in this tour. Looking forward to seeing u guys in the tour. Thank you!
Proposal :-
Since it is more likely that UMPL will be 3 managers so considering that fact, i would say that if u allow 2 manager self buys, make it such that the total credit after self buys is divisible among 3 managers equally (e.g. - 150k then 120k after 2 self buys, say. It is divisible by 3 as 40k for each manger). However this is just a proposal.
Possibilities :-
With the 2 manager format, should be pretty simple. The total credits that can be used are :-
If 10 slots:
- 10 slots + 2 subs = 120k total budget
- 10 slots + 3 subs = 130k total budget
- 10 slots + 4 subs = 140k total budget (Last year's format)
- 12 slots + 3 subs = 150k total budget
- 12 slots + 4 subs = 160k total budget
Preference (in order from 1 to 5) :-
- 12 slots + 3 subs = 150k
- 12 slots + 4 subs = 160k
- 10 slots + 3 subs = 130k
- 10 slots + 4 subs = 140k
- 10 slots + 2 subs = 120k
2. To be honest, I like this idea too but 160k is a lot of budget. It can make a team overpowered and at the same time, u can build a literal army of 30 players in a team lol which turns out to be an issue cuz of clash of too many opinions among players and subs. That's the only reason why I am against this. Rest the format seems fine about this
3. 10 slots isn't much and having a 13 player team is kind of a lack of activity i suppose ? But like it used to be the optimum team composition back in earlier days so I trust this format. And having 3 subs pretty much covers that issue so yea it's a preference as well
4. 140k is fine with 4 sub slots but once again, having 10 slots is the point here. It makes the team overpowered and gives opportunity to upbid recklessly. And once again, a team can have around 20 players in this format, so not much in favour for it. Though I liked it last year, this year I don't think it would do the same because of the new bloods that have been going crazy in tours all around
5. Pretty less budget if u ask me and having only 12 players makes it tougher to sub in. With only 2 subs, we can't realistically do anything though we have 3 managers. Additionally once 2 players r subbed in, u can't sub more in a week and I have seen many tours go all out subbing by week 7 if they are out / already qualified so not a fan of this at all.
With this, I once again want to ssy the same thing. Let me know your thoughts down below. And hoping everyone a good luck and have fun in this tour. Looking forward to seeing u guys in the tour. Thank you!
Hello I already said a few words on discord but continuing my thoughts here
12 Slots (2nd 2v2 slot): Good idea and much needed. Addresses the fact that the same 6 people have been starting 2v2 every tour and motivated people that played 2v2pl should be allowed to get their chance. Moreover managers are forced to draft 2 ppl that play the tier so players wont end up on an island with minimal support which was a complaint some players had in past tours.
Also one of the 1v1 slots should be bo7. It's the most competitive form of the tier and most players that will play in this already prefer it.
12 Slots (2nd 2v2 slot): Good idea and much needed. Addresses the fact that the same 6 people have been starting 2v2 every tour and motivated people that played 2v2pl should be allowed to get their chance. Moreover managers are forced to draft 2 ppl that play the tier so players wont end up on an island with minimal support which was a complaint some players had in past tours.
Also one of the 1v1 slots should be bo7. It's the most competitive form of the tier and most players that will play in this already prefer it.
I'd like to join Kaif's idea. I think a 1v1 slot in BO7 is a very good idea, even though I don't play that level. I'd really like to see a 1v1 in BO7.
Retains Retains are fun but I think UM player base changed too much since last year to make it relevant
UMFL this is a good idea
12 slots I like the idea, representing more NFE and 2v2 players is hype
Self-buys. 15k for 1 manager, 35k for 2.
3rd managers I like the idea also, 3 managers is really a good idea and can help to cover every thiers, as UM is really big in terms of different tiers. but i also think we should allowed only 2 managers if peoples wants to
UMFL this is a good idea
12 slots I like the idea, representing more NFE and 2v2 players is hype
Self-buys. 15k for 1 manager, 35k for 2.
3rd managers I like the idea also, 3 managers is really a good idea and can help to cover every thiers, as UM is really big in terms of different tiers. but i also think we should allowed only 2 managers if peoples wants to
I really like this too
So gonna give my 2 cents on the ideas being floated for this UMPL
Retentions: In my opinion, this might not be the best idea as someplayers have grown a lot during this time, emergence of players like FishyRoads, Finchely, Celeste from last season means that franchises which drafted these players in their less stellar periods, ie..when they were merely developing got them at a lower price. This makes it mildly unfair as it would enable someone to retain some insane picks like momlover, Happyish or Xu for 3000 and 4500 respectively. That is honestly just bonkers. If we are to allow retains it needs to be at a higher price. Like have them valued at 15k or higher(if they went for higher).
Franchises: Would be in favor of this, but I think we are missing some very funny names that we could potentially get this year. Think names like Unofficial Metangs, LUMineon lights, Bactrian NUMel. Like C'mon we haven't even gotten peak franchise names yet.
Unofficial Metagames Farming League (UMFL): this is an idea I do support. I do think that it should be 6 teams with 6 slots and 3 subs or something small like that, However, seeing out playerbase and how many we but this could genuinely help facilitate a pipeline to actually develop the UM player base. Here are some data and stats
Last UMPL, we saw 216 signups and 124 drafted players(this counts managers who self bought). This mean that we had 92 players who went undrafted. The UM playerbase has certainly grown over this past year, and I will include the rate based on tour signups in a bit, however this indicated that we would have more than enough to run a 6 team UMFL with atleast 15 players a side at min if we retain the signup numbers. Will get back with the numbers. Even if we increase starting slots to 12 for 8 teams, and assuming 3 extra signups for teams, we can expect UMFL to have 68 which at 6 teams should give a solid 11 per team(again can get more accurate numbers in a followup post).
Slot Increase: I am also in favor of increasing slots to 12 per week.
Self-buys: last year were a flat 15K rating, but I do feel that it would be justified to have a 15k for 1st self-buy and a 20k for 2nd self buy. This would be more appropriate because say 2 elite players are managers who self buy, that would naturally inflate the prices of the good players in the auction pool. By increasing cost for second self-buy, we are ensuring that this is taken into consideration and does not unfairly support the otherwise stronger team.
3rd Manager: managing RCoP, I have also noticed that this is becoming a smogon standard, and I think that this is certainly been helpful for the teams. I would certainly vouch for the inclusion of a 3rd manager if the teams want to do so.
Retentions: In my opinion, this might not be the best idea as someplayers have grown a lot during this time, emergence of players like FishyRoads, Finchely, Celeste from last season means that franchises which drafted these players in their less stellar periods, ie..when they were merely developing got them at a lower price. This makes it mildly unfair as it would enable someone to retain some insane picks like momlover, Happyish or Xu for 3000 and 4500 respectively. That is honestly just bonkers. If we are to allow retains it needs to be at a higher price. Like have them valued at 15k or higher(if they went for higher).
Franchises: Would be in favor of this, but I think we are missing some very funny names that we could potentially get this year. Think names like Unofficial Metangs, LUMineon lights, Bactrian NUMel. Like C'mon we haven't even gotten peak franchise names yet.
Unofficial Metagames Farming League (UMFL): this is an idea I do support. I do think that it should be 6 teams with 6 slots and 3 subs or something small like that, However, seeing out playerbase and how many we but this could genuinely help facilitate a pipeline to actually develop the UM player base. Here are some data and stats
Last UMPL, we saw 216 signups and 124 drafted players(this counts managers who self bought). This mean that we had 92 players who went undrafted. The UM playerbase has certainly grown over this past year, and I will include the rate based on tour signups in a bit, however this indicated that we would have more than enough to run a 6 team UMFL with atleast 15 players a side at min if we retain the signup numbers. Will get back with the numbers. Even if we increase starting slots to 12 for 8 teams, and assuming 3 extra signups for teams, we can expect UMFL to have 68 which at 6 teams should give a solid 11 per team(again can get more accurate numbers in a followup post).
Slot Increase: I am also in favor of increasing slots to 12 per week.
Self-buys: last year were a flat 15K rating, but I do feel that it would be justified to have a 15k for 1st self-buy and a 20k for 2nd self buy. This would be more appropriate because say 2 elite players are managers who self buy, that would naturally inflate the prices of the good players in the auction pool. By increasing cost for second self-buy, we are ensuring that this is taken into consideration and does not unfairly support the otherwise stronger team.
3rd Manager: managing RCoP, I have also noticed that this is becoming a smogon standard, and I think that this is certainly been helpful for the teams. I would certainly vouch for the inclusion of a 3rd manager if the teams want to do so.
Forwarding support for a 1v1 bo7 slot. Not only do most mainers enjoy it far more than 5, but it easily outstrips 5 in competitiveness + skill expression. UMPL serves as a perfect opportunity for players who may have never played 7 before to play in the format, solving the burnout issue that comes with an year's worth of building 6-7 teams a series.