Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

  1. Hydregion learning Stealth Rock via TM. Whilst I'm happy that my possible favourite pseudo legendary is getting a hazard move, the question is how and where it can learn it? Especially since its ability Levitate won't allow it to touch the Ground.
  2. Cobalion learning Volt Switch and Thunder Wave via TM. Also an oddity considering that it's the only member of the sword quartret that can learn these moves at all. For some reason, it can learn Sunny Day and Rain Dance via TM as well.
  3. Dugtrio able to learn Aerial Ace via TM until Generation 9. Even though the trio doesn't usually leave the ground.
Stealth Rock is just scattering rocks around. That's something very feasible for Hydreigon to do. And it's not like it has to stay airborne its entire life.

Cobalion probably gets those moves because steel types tend to get electric privledges. Rock, Grass & water less so.

Aerial Ace is a slashing move, you don't actually have to be in the air to use it even if that's how they like to show it off outside the games.
 
I'm actually more shocked (only slightly, given some of the other choices/decisions in TMs in Gen 9) that Dugtrio lost Aerial Ace in Gen 9.

Checking the learnset quite a few things lost it in Gen 9, though I question some of them being able to learn a slashing move in the first place (Misdreavus? Whiscash?)
Wow you're right, there's a kind of bizarre number of Pokemon that lost the move. Both Pokemon with prominent claws/slashing implements (Leavanny, Fomantis, Crawdaunt immediately jump out to me) and Pokemon with prominent airborne designs (many of the moths, which, i dunno i feel between their tiyn claws or probiscuses or even making their wings sharp I think they could still get it; guess they want to emphasize beaks & talons?).
 
Up until like gen 8 or so, almost every pokemon would get at least one of the weather setting moves for some reason. That's probably the reason for Cobalion learning Sunny Day and Rain Dance.

The oddest thing about this is that they kept the weather setting moves on all the older pokemon, but newer pokemon don't get them anymore unless they have more of a reason to learn it (water types learn Rain Dance for example)
 
Up until like gen 8 or so, almost every pokemon would get at least one of the weather setting moves for some reason. That's probably the reason for Cobalion learning Sunny Day and Rain Dance.

The oddest thing about this is that they kept the weather setting moves on all the older pokemon, but newer pokemon don't get them anymore unless they have more of a reason to learn it (water types learn Rain Dance for example)

You just got me down a rabbit hole of trying to find out if there's a definitive list of Pokemon who do not learn any weather-setting moves (as you allude to, lots of stuff get Sunny Day and Rain Dance - even Snorlax, of all things, learns them* - but Hail and Sandstorm are a bit more specialised). Sadly there doesn't seem to be one but it'd be interesting to see.

Once again Google's AI is proving its uselessness as it just incorrectly informed me that Castform cannot learn any of the weather-setting moves

edit: tried to go the other way and see how many Pokemon learn all four of those moves and Pokemondb's moveset checker is similarly useless



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*actually, I suppose, if Slowpoke can summon rain by yawning it might follow that Snorlax could do the same
 
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Doesn't /nds !sunny day, !rain dance, !sandstorm, !hail, !snowscape work for a list?

edit: I think the reason why pokemondb isn't working is because Hail no longer exists
 
Doesn't /nds !sunny day, !rain dance, !sandstorm, !hail, !snowscape work for a list?

edit: I think the reason why pokemondb isn't working is because Hail no longer exists

That's a good point, it doesn't specify generations so I assumed Hail would work but trying again with Snowscape does bring up results. My bad!

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That's a good point, it doesn't specify generations so I assumed Hail would work but trying again with Snowscape does bring up results. My bad!

View attachment 767215
So we have
Random galarian slowbro but not his kantonian twin
Chansey who basically has almost mew-tier moveset
Articuno but not the other 3 birds
Dragonite for some reason
Palkia which uuuh i guess makes sense, dimension/space twisting and what not
Tornadus (which is reasonable i guess being it a genie of wind)
Diancie

and then we have Scream Tail who probably is OldManYellsAtClouds and wills rain into existance.
 
You just got me down a rabbit hole of trying to find out if there's a definitive list of Pokemon who do not learn any weather-setting moves (as you allude to, lots of stuff get Sunny Day and Rain Dance - even Snorlax, of all things, learns them* - but Hail and Sandstorm are a bit more specialised). Sadly there doesn't seem to be one but it'd be interesting to see.

Once again Google's AI is proving its uselessness as it just incorrectly informed me that Castform cannot learn any of the weather-setting moves

edit: tried to go the other way and see how many Pokemon learn all four of those moves and Pokemondb's moveset checker is similarly useless



View attachment 767210







*actually, I suppose, if Slowpoke can summon rain by yawning it might follow that Snorlax could do the same
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this is what showdown gave. 98 pokemon. And if we exclude pre evos (including ones like weedle, unown or beldum that know incredibly limited moves by design), that is cut down to 44 pokemon. A lot of these seme to be Gen 7+ mons, and something noticeable is that a decent few are paradoxes/ultra beasts.

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But these pokemo can learn all these moves, which is a lot less (for some reason the water/blue legendaries seem to have all of them).
 
So we have
Random galarian slowbro but not his kantonian twin

Interesting... Kantonian Slowbro just misses out on Sandstorm (as do both variants of Slowking). I suppose Galarian Slowbro's island habitat means it has greater aptitude to fighting in sand? It's characterised as more of a scrapper.

Curiously while looking at the learnset for Sandstorm I noticed Charizard alone loses access to the move after Gen II; it could learn Sandstorm via TM in GSC, then never again until eventually regaining it in Gen IX. The lady who gives it to you describes it as a rough move that damages both combatants and so is only for advanced trainers, which fits with Charizard's aggressive, powerful nature - but from Gen III onwards it didn't really have this descriptor any more and was basically... just another weather condition. Most of the species which learn it in Gen III onwards are Rock, Ground, or Steel (though there's still some exceptions to that like Chansey, Kangaskhan, and Hitmontop).

Chansey who basically has almost mew-tier moveset

Yeah Chansey basically learns everything and has massive elemental compatibility, this makes sense

Articuno but not the other 3 birds

That's... a weird one. Actually no wait, doesn't Articuno get Weather Ball? ...oh, all three of them do. Strange. It fits that Moltres and Zapdos can't learn Hail, I guess but there's so few scenarios for Articuno to be using Sunny Day either.

Dragonite for some reason

Again, massive elemental coverage, it learns moves of just about every type. Goodra actually also learns Hail but not Sandstorm... surely Hisuian Goodra learns Sandstorm... yep, it does but weirdly neither form learns Snowscape.

Palkia which uuuh i guess makes sense, dimension/space twisting and what not

Also general wide Dragon movepools. Always thought it was funny Palkia learned Fire moves at all given its typing (I mean sure, you could argue that just being a Dragon is justification for that, except none of the other Water/Dragons get Fire moves barring Walking Wake, for whom that's an intentional part of its design)

Tornadus (which is reasonable i guess being it a genie of wind)

Yep, makes sense. You'd actually think more Flying-types should get Sandstorm, really.


Elemental affinity & being a mythical. That & and it's basically magic (compressing airborne carbon would be a horrendously inefficient way to make diamonds IRL given how tiny the percentage of carbon in the atmosphere is, but we're not talking real-world physics here)

and then we have Scream Tail who probably is OldManYellsAtClouds and wills rain into existance.

Fully on board with this.

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But these pokemo can learn all these moves, which is a lot less (for some reason the water/blue legendaries seem to have all of them).

So for those not mentioned - Mew and Smeargle, obvious; Suicune...? Huh, somehow I never clocked that Suicune got Sunny Day and Sandstorm as well as Hail and Rain Dance (which are obvious fits for it). I mean, why would I, Sunny Day would be a baffling choice for it. Although, as it happens it lost access to it in ScVi.

View attachment 767222
this is what showdown gave. 98 pokemon. And if we exclude pre evos (including ones like weedle, unown or beldum that know incredibly limited moves by design), that is cut down to 44 pokemon. A lot of these seme to be Gen 7+ mons, and something noticeable is that a decent few are paradoxes/ultra beasts.

Fab, thanks! Exactly what I was after.

Huh, so some strange ones here. Zeraora is an odd one given it's an Electric-type - Sunny Day and Rain Dance would both fit the moves it can learn. But then when you consider it's characterised as quite an "earthy" Pokemon without much in the way of elemental affinity - it's a physical fighter and learns very few elemental moves, and almost no status moves which affect the environment vs affecting itself - even Electric Terrain comes from it directly. Urshifu is in a similar boat (the Single Strike form, anyway - the Rapid Strike form can fittingly learn Rain Dance), which I guess makes sense when it's stated to be the embodiment of rage: too impatient and non-spiritual to learn to manipulate the atmosphere. Clobbopus is one of those double-take species because, of course, it's not actually Water-type and that's just where it lives; so there's no real reason it should learn Rain Dance.

There's actually a few Steels and Electrics who you might expect should be able to learn weather moves here (Melmetal, Togedemaru, Genesect, Boltund, Kilowattrel), and also a few Grass Pokemon who lack their type's usual weather affinity (Meowscarada, Brambleghast, Sinistcha). What a lot of them seem to have in common is that they're not particularly supernatural in aspect: Boltund is basically just a dog, Sinistcha's just a blobby little ghost that hides in peoples' houses. Brambleghast is a tumbleweed so very much at the mercy of the wind and weather instead of having control over them. Flamigo, Dubwool, Thievul, and Tinkaton miss out for what I'd think to be similar reasons: too mundane and not concerned with matters of the spiritual/metaphysical.

...never did that Oscar Wilde quote feel more apt than right now. "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."

Anyway. Kilowattral not learning Rain Dance has always seemed intended to me for mechanical reasons - it needs outside support to sweep, which is also demonstrated by its two primary abilities - but in-universe it's stated to be a poor swimmer and so likely isn't suited to setting up rainy weather.

But then even some of the more magical or mystical Pokemon feel like weird exemptions. Meowscarada is a funny one given it's a magician and weather manipulation has long been something associated with magic, but I suppose it's not that powerful of a magician and can only effect small-scale tricks. Hatterene, Grimmsnarl, Alcremie, Orbeetle, Galarian Rapidash, and Indeedee are all very weird omissions, given the typical abilities of Fairy and Psychic Pokemon and the fact that Hatterene, Orbeetle, and Indeedee get a bunch of other environment-manipulating moves: Gravity, Trick Room, Magic Room, Wonder Room, Psychic Terrain, Misty Terrain. Orbeetle even learns Solarbeam! Those three are the ones I'd deem the biggest victims of this apparent design choice - it's entirely possible in a generation or two things will go the other way though.

For Genesect, one could make the case that being cybernetically altered deadened its connection to nature: it can adopt different elements, but only via technology. Paradoxes/Ultra Beasts I guess would have the justification that, as creatures not from our world, they're unattuned to our environment and cannot alter it. Similar reasons probably apply to Melmetal - it's an ancient Pokemon only recently reawakened and not yet in sync with the modern world.

Archaludon, though - that one's particularly strange. You'd think it'd at least get Sandstorm...?

...go home, AI overview, you're drunk.

1756383237754.png
 
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So we have
Random galarian slowbro but not his kantonian twin
Chansey who basically has almost mew-tier moveset
Articuno but not the other 3 birds
Dragonite for some reason
Palkia which uuuh i guess makes sense, dimension/space twisting and what not
Tornadus (which is reasonable i guess being it a genie of wind)
Diancie

and then we have Scream Tail who probably is OldManYellsAtClouds and wills rain into existance.
Dragonair has dex entries mentioning it can control the weather, but I guess that it can't stir up a sandstorm while Dragonite can with its wings?
Meowscarada is a funny one given it's a magician and weather manipulation has long been something associated with magic, but I suppose it's not that powerful of a magician and can only effect small-scale tricks.
Pretty sure the idea with Meowscarada is that it's not a real magician and it's faking all it's tricks (hence why it's Dark rather than Psychic or Fairy like most magic Pokémon), and you can't exactly fake weather.
Hatterene, Orbeetle
Hatterene hates loud noises, you know like thunder or howling winds. Orbeetle's a UFO, focused on the ground beneath it not the sky above.
Galarian Rapidash,
It's very hard to remain hidden if you're messing with the weather.
 
Pretty sure the idea with Meowscarada is that it's not a real magician and it's faking all it's tricks (hence why it's Dark rather than Psychic or Fairy like most magic Pokémon), and you can't exactly fake weather.

I mean, that was more or less what I said. Pretty much all magic tricks are fakery, although in the Pokemon world who knows.

Hatterene hates loud noises, you know like thunder or howling winds. Orbeetle's a UFO, focused on the ground beneath it not the sky above.

It's very hard to remain hidden if you're messing with the weather.

Okay, but Ralts also hides itself away from people and it can still learn Sunny Day and Rain Dance; Buneary hates loud noises, it can also learn both moves.

Also, these aren't natural abilities of the Pokemon in any case. Your typical wild Psychic-type isn't spending time making it rain, these are techniques specifically learned from an outside source they wouldn't normally come into contact with. They're within the capabilities of the Pokemon, just not inherent to them.
 
You just got me down a rabbit hole of trying to find out if there's a definitive list of Pokemon who do not learn any weather-setting moves (as you allude to, lots of stuff get Sunny Day and Rain Dance - even Snorlax, of all things, learns them* - but Hail and Sandstorm are a bit more specialised). Sadly there doesn't seem to be one but it'd be interesting to see.

Once again Google's AI is proving its uselessness as it just incorrectly informed me that Castform cannot learn any of the weather-setting moves

edit: tried to go the other way and see how many Pokemon learn all four of those moves and Pokemondb's moveset checker is similarly useless



View attachment 767210







*actually, I suppose, if Slowpoke can summon rain by yawning it might follow that Snorlax could do the same
Pokemondb only looks at pokemon in the current generation, so it won't give a full list.
Interesting... Kantonian Slowbro just misses out on Sandstorm (as do both variants of Slowking). I suppose Galarian Slowbro's island habitat means it has greater aptitude to fighting in sand? It's characterised as more of a scrapper.

Curiously while looking at the learnset for Sandstorm I noticed Charizard alone loses access to the move after Gen II; it could learn Sandstorm via TM in GSC, then never again until eventually regaining it in Gen IX. The lady who gives it to you describes it as a rough move that damages both combatants and so is only for advanced trainers, which fits with Charizard's aggressive, powerful nature - but from Gen III onwards it didn't really have this descriptor any more and was basically... just another weather condition. Most of the species which learn it in Gen III onwards are Rock, Ground, or Steel (though there's still some exceptions to that like Chansey, Kangaskhan, and Hitmontop).



Yeah Chansey basically learns everything and has massive elemental compatibility, this makes sense



That's... a weird one. Actually no wait, doesn't Articuno get Weather Ball? ...oh, all three of them do. Strange. It fits that Moltres and Zapdos can't learn Hail, I guess but there's so few scenarios for Articuno to be using Sunny Day either.



Again, massive elemental coverage, it learns moves of just about every type. Goodra actually also learns Hail but not Sandstorm... surely Hisuian Goodra learns Sandstorm... yep, it does but weirdly neither form learns Snowscape.



Also general wide Dragon movepools. Always thought it was funny Palkia learned Fire moves at all given its typing (I mean sure, you could argue that just being a Dragon is justification for that, except none of the other Water/Dragons get Fire moves barring Walking Wake, for whom that's an intentional part of its design)



Yep, makes sense. You'd actually think more Flying-types should get Sandstorm, really.



Elemental affinity & being a mythical. That & and it's basically magic (compressing airborne carbon would be a horrendously inefficient way to make diamonds IRL given how tiny the percentage of carbon in the atmosphere is, but we're not talking real-world physics here)



Fully on board with this.



So for those not mentioned - Mew and Smeargle, obvious; Suicune...? Huh, somehow I never clocked that Suicune got Sunny Day and Sandstorm as well as Hail and Rain Dance (which are obvious fits for it). I mean, why would I, Sunny Day would be a baffling choice for it. Although, as it happens it lost access to it in ScVi.



Fab, thanks! Exactly what I was after.

Huh, so some strange ones here. Zeraora is an odd one given it's an Electric-type - Sunny Day and Rain Dance would both fit the moves it can learn. But then when you consider it's characterised as quite an "earthy" Pokemon without much in the way of elemental affinity - it's a physical fighter and learns very few elemental moves, and almost no status moves which affect the environment vs affecting itself - even Electric Terrain comes from it directly. Urshifu is in a similar boat (the Single Strike form, anyway - the Rapid Strike form can fittingly learn Rain Dance), which I guess makes sense when it's stated to be the embodiment of rage: too impatient and non-spiritual to learn to manipulate the atmosphere. Clobbopus is one of those double-take species because, of course, it's not actually Water-type and that's just where it lives; so there's no real reason it should learn Rain Dance.

There's actually a few Steels and Electrics who you might expect should be able to learn weather moves here (Melmetal, Togedemaru, Genesect, Boltund, Kilowattrel), and also a few Grass Pokemon who lack their type's usual weather affinity (Meowscarada, Brambleghast, Sinistcha). What a lot of them seem to have in common is that they're not particularly supernatural in aspect: Boltund is basically just a dog, Sinistcha's just a blobby little ghost that hides in peoples' houses. Brambleghast is a tumbleweed so very much at the mercy of the wind and weather instead of having control over them. Flamigo, Dubwool, Thievul, and Tinkaton miss out for what I'd think to be similar reasons: too mundane and not concerned with matters of the spiritual/metaphysical.

...never did that Oscar Wilde quote feel more apt than right now. "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."

Anyway. Kilowattral not learning Rain Dance has always seemed intended to me for mechanical reasons - it needs outside support to sweep, which is also demonstrated by its two primary abilities - but in-universe it's stated to be a poor swimmer and so likely isn't suited to setting up rainy weather.

But then even some of the more magical or mystical Pokemon feel like weird exemptions. Meowscarada is a funny one given it's a magician and weather manipulation has long been something associated with magic, but I suppose it's not that powerful of a magician and can only effect small-scale tricks. Hatterene, Grimmsnarl, Alcremie, Orbeetle, Galarian Rapidash, and Indeedee are all very weird omissions, given the typical abilities of Fairy and Psychic Pokemon and the fact that Hatterene, Orbeetle, and Indeedee get a bunch of other environment-manipulating moves: Gravity, Trick Room, Magic Room, Wonder Room, Psychic Terrain, Misty Terrain. Orbeetle even learns Solarbeam! Those three are the ones I'd deem the biggest victims of this apparent design choice - it's entirely possible in a generation or two things will go the other way though.

For Genesect, one could make the case that being cybernetically altered deadened its connection to nature: it can adopt different elements, but only via technology. Paradoxes/Ultra Beasts I guess would have the justification that, as creatures not from our world, they're unattuned to our environment and cannot alter it. Similar reasons probably apply to Melmetal - it's an ancient Pokemon only recently reawakened and not yet in sync with the modern world.

Archaludon, though - that one's particularly strange. You'd think it'd at least get Sandstorm...?

...go home, AI overview, you're drunk.

View attachment 767239
I don't think most of those pokemon not learning any weather setting moves has to do that much with flavor, it's just because they started being slightly more strict with rain dance and sunny day from gen 7 onwards. Almost all the pokemon listed here (besides ones with limited movepools like Unown and Wurmple) are from those generations.
 
Pokemondb only looks at pokemon in the current generation, so it won't give a full list.

I don't think most of those pokemon not learning any weather setting moves has to do that much with flavor, it's just because they started being slightly more strict with rain dance and sunny day from gen 7 onwards. Almost all the pokemon listed here (besides ones with limited movepools like Unown and Wurmple) are from those generations.

Oh I'm sure it's mostly an out-of-universe thing, it's just neat to think of flavour-related reasons. That's mostly what this thread's about, after all.

Like Garchomp not getting Dragon Dance, for instance - everyone knows it's almost certainly a balancing thing, but I find it amusing to think of an in-universe justification.
 
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