I understand that I'm probably wrong but i want to see what y'all think about this tier list. It's probably good for the conversationWe did a community type VR last month:
Hello everyone. Here are the results of the second edition of the Community Type VR, based off of 25 respondents. Thanks to all who responded!
Tiers were selected by k-means clustering.
Overall Rankings
Code:Dragon 1.76 Flying 2.80 Steel 3.32 Dark 3.36 Water 5.60 Ground 6.52 Fighting 6.84 Fire 8.84 Fairy 8.96 Ghost 9.12 Normal 11.32 Poison 11.64 Bug 12.04 Psychic 13.96 Ice 15.68 Grass 15.80 Rock 16.32 Electric 17.12
Qualified Rankings
Code:Dragon 1.95 Flying 2.80 Dark 3.05...
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Metagame SV Monotype Metagame Discussion [Indigo Disk]
- Thread starter Rio Vidal
- Start date
Psychic is way better than grass, rock or even fire in my opinion. Hat+deo-spees is just awesome
Can we have a discussion about Gliscor?
It's probably the number 1 complaint I've heard, even louder than Flutter Mane complaints, and I feel like Flutter Mane is the benchmark for things to look at. I looked at the previous survey and it was the highest rated after accounting for banned targets.
We all know how annoying Gliscor can be. It can come in multiple times in a game because of its stellar stat spread, resists, and immunities, and do so even without Roost because of Psn Heal x Protect, allowing it to do its usual schtick of status spreading, hazard setting, knock off, scouting, and even SD for the quirky folks. It can be annoying in just about any game, warranting prejudice when up against it.
That in itself is annoying but trying to remove it from the game is just as annoying because of how slippery it is since it has the perfect teammates to hide behind. Its 4x weakness to ice is mitigated by Articuno, Moltres, Corv, Skarm, and each has a way to pivot out or force the opponent out. Gliscor can freely choose which defensive spread to use because it has a reliable set of teammates to make up for its lagging stat.
I think the frustration gets worse for people when they instead shift their attention to breaking its teammates first in order to get to Gliscor, targetting their electric weakness or reliability on leftovers/HDB, only for Gliscor to come back in because it is conveniently immune to both electric and getting its item knocked off, in turn allowing it to heal and proceed to let it do more Gliscor things. OH, and on top of taking TBolts and knock offs for its teammates, it can also absorb statuses like toxic/burn/para that they don't want to be hit by, supporting its friends three-fold.
So between Gliscor and its defensive core, you will need to specifically build for it, or in other words, Gliscor causes enough of a strain to be centralizing.
The most common way to get around this infamous core is BoltBeam but options are limited to Pokemon who aren't choice-locked. Sometimes having BoltBeam isn't enough as the core may be able to shrug it off, necessitating mixed BoltBeam, and limiting the pool of reliable answers even further.
I think that sums up the frustration in dealing with Gliscor and I don't really think it's healthy when we account for the tools we actually have (since it's Monotype) against the synergy it forms with the core it falls back to.
It's probably the number 1 complaint I've heard, even louder than Flutter Mane complaints, and I feel like Flutter Mane is the benchmark for things to look at. I looked at the previous survey and it was the highest rated after accounting for banned targets.
We all know how annoying Gliscor can be. It can come in multiple times in a game because of its stellar stat spread, resists, and immunities, and do so even without Roost because of Psn Heal x Protect, allowing it to do its usual schtick of status spreading, hazard setting, knock off, scouting, and even SD for the quirky folks. It can be annoying in just about any game, warranting prejudice when up against it.
That in itself is annoying but trying to remove it from the game is just as annoying because of how slippery it is since it has the perfect teammates to hide behind. Its 4x weakness to ice is mitigated by Articuno, Moltres, Corv, Skarm, and each has a way to pivot out or force the opponent out. Gliscor can freely choose which defensive spread to use because it has a reliable set of teammates to make up for its lagging stat.
I think the frustration gets worse for people when they instead shift their attention to breaking its teammates first in order to get to Gliscor, targetting their electric weakness or reliability on leftovers/HDB, only for Gliscor to come back in because it is conveniently immune to both electric and getting its item knocked off, in turn allowing it to heal and proceed to let it do more Gliscor things. OH, and on top of taking TBolts and knock offs for its teammates, it can also absorb statuses like toxic/burn/para that they don't want to be hit by, supporting its friends three-fold.
So between Gliscor and its defensive core, you will need to specifically build for it, or in other words, Gliscor causes enough of a strain to be centralizing.
The most common way to get around this infamous core is BoltBeam but options are limited to Pokemon who aren't choice-locked. Sometimes having BoltBeam isn't enough as the core may be able to shrug it off, necessitating mixed BoltBeam, and limiting the pool of reliable answers even further.
I think that sums up the frustration in dealing with Gliscor and I don't really think it's healthy when we account for the tools we actually have (since it's Monotype) against the synergy it forms with the core it falls back to.
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As someone who also wants Gliscor suspected, I'll add my 2 cents.
Gliscor is incredibly frustrating to play against. A ton of so-called "counters" don't actually counter Gliscor at all because they can't switch-in out of fear of Toxic. For example, if the dragon player switches Specs Latios into Gliscor's Toxic, the dragon player is going to lose (assuiming high-level play). Same goes with Ground players using Mamoswine vs Gliscor, Electic players using Ice punch Iron hands, etcetera. This leads to incredibly unfun, toxic gameplay patterns that tend to be favorable to the Gliscor user, especially with the ability to scout with Protect against choiced users, and the ability to punish players for not outright switching in Mamo/Ironhands/Latios in immediately by stacking Spikes (turns out you lose by not immediately switching in your counter that doesn't want to get toxic'd too, lovely!).
Moreover, Gliscor really only needs 2 slots to be incredibly annoying, which is EQ + Protect. This effectively gives Gliscor 2 free moves to run literally whatever it wants, which can really screw over some so-called "checks". For example, some so-called checks that beat Gliscor on paper, such as Facade Flame Orb Ursaluna and ID/bpress Skarm, actually lose 1v1 against the wrong set (in Facade Ursaluna's case, sub + protect; In Skarmory's case, Taunt + Knock; not to mention Spikes punishes Skarm for wasting turns anyways); this, combined with the aforementioned toxic gameplay patterns leads to players loading at least 2-3 checks to Gliscor on every team and/or stack mons that Gliscor doesn't want to come into in order to minimize the chances of outright losing to it at preview. I personally find this incredibly restrictive to building, not to mention incredibly unfun.
In addition to this, when you take into account Gliscor's bullshit ability to just outright delete/severely diminish the viability of certain types in the teambuilder (Poison and Electric are the ones that immediately come to mind; no, Specs Iron moth is not a counter because it can't switch in; I know people who have resorted to counter Clodsire just to deal with it semi-effectively), and it's not really much of a wonder why people want this thing gone.
Ban This Mon Now
(I'm not sure what else to say because the two posts above me already say it all)
(I'm not sure what else to say because the two posts above me already say it all)
the reason that the gliscor conversation is centered around it theoretically being “annoying” rather than practical examples of how it’s broken in games is because the metagame has actually adapted to it pretty well in 2025. any dragon team with latios/kyurem + flash cannon arch which are already both perfectly viable will be fine vs. gliscor.
and i think that's what it's ultimately about, right? gliscor isn't "broken" vs fire / ghost / water / fighting which offensively pressure it, steel which has skarm, flying which has skarm and its own gliscor. it's about dragon and maybe dark, although dark also has 3 very strong & standard offensive pokemon with ice coverage. is it "oppressive" to run 3 mons with ice coverage when the two best types are weak to ice? personally, i don't think so. gliscor is strong vs fairy and ground, sure, but it doesn't outright beat them because both types also have ways to pressure it offensively, either through mamo / gravity lando for ground or valiant / flutter / prim for fairy. it's also worth noting that it has to "pick" what it's strong against with its set, i.e., toxic is much stronger vs ground but much weaker vs fairy.
gliscor is actually pretty healthy for the meta because it enables pretty much the only viable form of balance / defensively-centered gameplay besides steel and maybe water stall. gliscor flying is great for the metagame, non-linear gameplay that can be exploited by good play from both players. (not even glazing any flying mainers)
the “problem” with this tier that makes it not fun sometimes is that some of the best types, particularly fire and ghost, play extremely linearly and usually win or lose on preview. like how do you “outplay” a fire? or outplay as the fire user? i’ve gotten owned by fire a bunch of times as much as i have told my teammates/players to spam it and everytime it was clear that it was extremely cheap because ogerpon completely flips its expected bad matchups (water/ground). ghost is arguably less egregious because it has more pronounced weaknesses but it's still very restrictive in terms of what it beats (and no, it’s not flutter mane's fault, it’s spectrier. flutter mane doesn’t even run its “broken” set on ghost).
if you want that dynamic to change and mono to have some form of scl / official-tournament legitimacy, you have to target the things that win on preview. gliscor doesn’t beat anything on preview. hearthflame does. if you want positive change, you should suspect hearthflame.
i understand that we kind of opened pandora’s box by banning a bunch of great anti-offense tools like gambit, zama, blood-moon, etc. and if a mass suspect was on the table, i’d be on board. however, if we made this bed, we must lie in it and try to improve the meta as much as we can. i don’t think SV is horrible or anything, but I also agree there’s a clear difference in game quality between SV monotype and even SS / ORAS / BW games. we should want to fix that, but we should also understand the right places to look first.
and i think that's what it's ultimately about, right? gliscor isn't "broken" vs fire / ghost / water / fighting which offensively pressure it, steel which has skarm, flying which has skarm and its own gliscor. it's about dragon and maybe dark, although dark also has 3 very strong & standard offensive pokemon with ice coverage. is it "oppressive" to run 3 mons with ice coverage when the two best types are weak to ice? personally, i don't think so. gliscor is strong vs fairy and ground, sure, but it doesn't outright beat them because both types also have ways to pressure it offensively, either through mamo / gravity lando for ground or valiant / flutter / prim for fairy. it's also worth noting that it has to "pick" what it's strong against with its set, i.e., toxic is much stronger vs ground but much weaker vs fairy.
gliscor is actually pretty healthy for the meta because it enables pretty much the only viable form of balance / defensively-centered gameplay besides steel and maybe water stall. gliscor flying is great for the metagame, non-linear gameplay that can be exploited by good play from both players. (not even glazing any flying mainers)
the “problem” with this tier that makes it not fun sometimes is that some of the best types, particularly fire and ghost, play extremely linearly and usually win or lose on preview. like how do you “outplay” a fire? or outplay as the fire user? i’ve gotten owned by fire a bunch of times as much as i have told my teammates/players to spam it and everytime it was clear that it was extremely cheap because ogerpon completely flips its expected bad matchups (water/ground). ghost is arguably less egregious because it has more pronounced weaknesses but it's still very restrictive in terms of what it beats (and no, it’s not flutter mane's fault, it’s spectrier. flutter mane doesn’t even run its “broken” set on ghost).
if you want that dynamic to change and mono to have some form of scl / official-tournament legitimacy, you have to target the things that win on preview. gliscor doesn’t beat anything on preview. hearthflame does. if you want positive change, you should suspect hearthflame.
i understand that we kind of opened pandora’s box by banning a bunch of great anti-offense tools like gambit, zama, blood-moon, etc. and if a mass suspect was on the table, i’d be on board. however, if we made this bed, we must lie in it and try to improve the meta as much as we can. i don’t think SV is horrible or anything, but I also agree there’s a clear difference in game quality between SV monotype and even SS / ORAS / BW games. we should want to fix that, but we should also understand the right places to look first.
it's nice to see some real discussion in here for once instead of trolling. i was gonna type up a little blurb similar to what twinkay said about how unfun/annoying doesn't equal broken and that you're able to handle gliscor offensively etc etc. but that post covered it really well.
however, if we're extending the discussion to hearthflame though i feel it is only fair to address heat rock
's role in this too. i do agree that hearthflame beats things on preview, but it is only further enabled by having a full 8 turns of sun. a huge part of fire being able to played linearly as mentioned above is because the entire team has access to boosted moves for practically the entire game. i don't know if hearthflame is able to flip matchups like it does right now without the sun access it has currently, but banning it instead is totally a fine outcome as well.
i also want to mention that i also think that the direction of taking no action is fine too, obviously a mass unban suspect isn't going to happen at this point in the generation (unfortunately, as much as i'd love that), and with mwp around the corner now the time is almost to the point where it's too tight to do anything before our major team tour. though if we want to squeeze a hearthflame/heat rock suspect in before then, i totally support it.
however, if we're extending the discussion to hearthflame though i feel it is only fair to address heat rock
's role in this too. i do agree that hearthflame beats things on preview, but it is only further enabled by having a full 8 turns of sun. a huge part of fire being able to played linearly as mentioned above is because the entire team has access to boosted moves for practically the entire game. i don't know if hearthflame is able to flip matchups like it does right now without the sun access it has currently, but banning it instead is totally a fine outcome as well.i also want to mention that i also think that the direction of taking no action is fine too, obviously a mass unban suspect isn't going to happen at this point in the generation (unfortunately, as much as i'd love that), and with mwp around the corner now the time is almost to the point where it's too tight to do anything before our major team tour. though if we want to squeeze a hearthflame/heat rock suspect in before then, i totally support it.
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There's no problematic Pokemon. I think the next suspect should be an unban. Maybe 
?
Gliscor can beat a lot of unprepped Ghost teams. Thanks to PoisonHealxProtect with knock off it does a bunch of damages. SD / Toxic just destroy Sinistcha, Ghold and other defensive mons since Pecha is never played NP in ghost since you have Ghold or Spectrier to do it better. Most of the times Gliscor can contain Flutter Mane since it's scarf to be able to beat dark so it won't deal as much damages as necessary and will fear EQ / Koff random stuffs. It won't get a straight 6-0 but even a 3/4-0 is enough to not allow your oppo to come back.
Fire vs flying if there is a Moltres well played (too much replays from people letting their Gliscor being burned between t1 and t3…) shouldn't be as easy as this since EQ breaks sub Bulkyrona and once Toxic'ed Volcarona can't sweep flying. So you might KO the flying scorpio but the fire team is weaken needing a healing wish and positionning is not always that easy.
Tho I don't disagree there is an issue with fire. As Adjustments said, I think it's more due to Heat Rock allowing to do nasty things for Firepon + Bulkyrona + Cinderace + Ceruledge but maybe it's only Firepon and we will go back to play Scovillain. Banning heat rock is something I'm pro since forever since we can see it's not only Gouging Fire's fault (tho don't let it come back our banlist could be bigger but includes mandatory mons).
Fire vs flying if there is a Moltres well played (too much replays from people letting their Gliscor being burned between t1 and t3…) shouldn't be as easy as this since EQ breaks sub Bulkyrona and once Toxic'ed Volcarona can't sweep flying. So you might KO the flying scorpio but the fire team is weaken needing a healing wish and positionning is not always that easy.
Tho I don't disagree there is an issue with fire. As Adjustments said, I think it's more due to Heat Rock allowing to do nasty things for Firepon + Bulkyrona + Cinderace + Ceruledge but maybe it's only Firepon and we will go back to play Scovillain. Banning heat rock is something I'm pro since forever since we can see it's not only Gouging Fire's fault (tho don't let it come back our banlist could be bigger but includes mandatory mons).
I really feel like other than hearthflame and espathra (y is it banned‽) there isn't much to do. I think the tier may be solved. How wrong am I?
For Espathra, it was deemed uncompetitive as many types did not have adequate answers to it and it could sweep at the drop of a hat. I'd recommend reading through people's thoughts about it in the suspect thread.
As for whether the tier is "solved," that depends on what you mean. If you mean that the tier is generally balanced, then many would agree. The main Pokemon in discussion right now are better described as annoying rather than broken (Gliscor and Archaludon chiefly among them; Oger-H is relatively less of an issue, the prevailing sentiment is that if you wanted to weaken Fire, Heat Rock is a better target). If you mean that there is no innovation left in the tier, I could not disagree more.
I agree with pretty much all of twinkay’s points. This metagame is probably the most powercrepped and linear metagame we’ve had of monotype so far. Almost every type has so many incredible breakers and you need pokemon that can play the passive game to combat these threats and add some nuance to the metagame and different matchups. Everyone just wants to click, click, click with the insane breakers we have in the tier (such as Specs Fluttermane, Specs Luster Purge Latios, CM Raging Bolt, Ogerpon (all forms), Urshifu-R, Specs Hoopa U, Banded Meow, Banded Excadrill, Lando I, and Samurott-H). We NEED Mons like Gliscor, Archaludon, and Gholdengo to combat the high offensive power in the tier. Even with them in the tier, matchups sometimes devolve into how many times you can get in your breaker and just click a stab move and not even having to make a prediction because your opponent’s “checks” get 3 Hit Koed by a stab or coverage move or only check you at full HP. And the mons in question are so fast that they can be hard to revenge kill (ex: Banded Meow Triple Axle vs Flying, Specs Flutter vs Dragon/Dark, Ogerpon (W/H) in Rain/Sun vs Flying, Band Barraskewda in Rain vs Dark/Flying).
That’s why this metagame has become so top heavy, where in last MPL you only see like 8 types get any real usage. These lower tier types just get shafted because they can’t compete in this “who can out offense who” metagame and every common breaker just brooms their whole team and the mons are so fast they just outspeed 4-5 members on your team for OHKO’s.
That’s what I’ve realized as I’ve been dedicating multiple days in the lead up to mwpl, trying to comb through these lower tier types, and see if there’s anything redeeming to them. Types like Electric and Psychic CANNOT play defensive in this high offense metagame. You have to figure out their strengths, cover for their weaknesses and pull out maximum potential out of whatever gimmick they have available so they can play “ball” so to speak in this high offense metagame. Types like Rock, Psychic, Electric and Grass cannot play defensive vs the insane breakers prevalent in the tier. In fact, in metagames like NDM, the way these types with poor defensive utility found success was by dipping into their offensive traits and exploiting options available to them, such as sticky web or psychic/electric terrain. I hope some of yall give some of these lower tier types a try come this MWPL, there’s still a ton of innovation to be had.
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Failed to mention gliscor is a huge detriment to every bulky team but flying because they can't break through it. Poison would be real if gliscor was not. I do think offensive power is a little high this gen though.
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Than what potential innovation is there possibly left? the tier feels like just slapping six barkers other than flying and psychic
The tier has tons of room to innovate. People just don't like trying new things.
if we knew what the answer was it wouldn’t exactly be innovation. if you want something though I’ve been using steel without heatran a bit for the past few months. Gliscor is unfun and I would support a suspect. If this were to occur, I would like the gliscor suspect to have gliscor banned during the suspect and we potentially have a no johns type tournament to see what it’s like, though I know this is unrealistic. ogerpon hearthflame / heat rock are stupid and I would support a suspect, a regular one would be fine because I know what I’d vote. Also would support banning speed boost and unban espathra and blaziken
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I don't really know much about pokemon debates. But everytime I try to engage in a discussion about Gliscor with people in the monotype room, i'm met with condescending rebuttals of "skill issue" & "it's annoying but not broken"
The main issue with gliscor is the support it has on flying builds. Gliscor on it's own is just annoying but the flying core/support is what turns a competitive monotype Pokemon battle into a braindead chore
Gliscor can be paired with skarm & corv to render teams heavily based on physical attackers useless
& conversely, gliscor can be paired with articuno to render teams heavily based on special attackers useless
Rocks aren’t a solution because the birds affected by rocks use heavy-duty boots and easily evade knock off by switching out to gliscor to take knock off damage; as gliscor no longer needs an item to heal
Toxic, burn and paralysis aren’t a solution to chip the birds because, checks notes, switch out to gliscor to negate status because gliscor has already been poisoned
Skill issue goes out the window because the people who use these gliscor teams have a level of skill and are capable of making plays as well
In addition to skill issue argument, gliscor is a good scout and the game plays out as if one is playing an AI model (horrible game experience when the opponent 1. protects to scout, 2. Switch to the right wall, 3. U-turn out to scout further, 4. Go back to gliscor and repeat the cycle until opponent forfeits or takes enough toxic damage via the game or in real-life
Lastly on skill issue, you can make 10 perfect predictions but all the gliscor user needs is ONE prediction to go their way and your counter or counters are toxic’d and the game is over as gliscor and friends will stall out the game . And don't get me started on substitute toxic protect builds
Gliscor is uncompetitive and broken, mainly because of the support available on flying builds. When teambuilding, a single gliscor counter is not enough and multiple are required … and that still doesn’t guarantee a favourable game. The flying core is so perfect that it feels like I’m restricted to a monotype team versus a complete defensive core. Please ban or suspect. It’s uncompetitive and broken.
The main issue with gliscor is the support it has on flying builds. Gliscor on it's own is just annoying but the flying core/support is what turns a competitive monotype Pokemon battle into a braindead chore
Gliscor can be paired with skarm & corv to render teams heavily based on physical attackers useless
& conversely, gliscor can be paired with articuno to render teams heavily based on special attackers useless
Rocks aren’t a solution because the birds affected by rocks use heavy-duty boots and easily evade knock off by switching out to gliscor to take knock off damage; as gliscor no longer needs an item to heal
Toxic, burn and paralysis aren’t a solution to chip the birds because, checks notes, switch out to gliscor to negate status because gliscor has already been poisoned
Skill issue goes out the window because the people who use these gliscor teams have a level of skill and are capable of making plays as well
In addition to skill issue argument, gliscor is a good scout and the game plays out as if one is playing an AI model (horrible game experience when the opponent 1. protects to scout, 2. Switch to the right wall, 3. U-turn out to scout further, 4. Go back to gliscor and repeat the cycle until opponent forfeits or takes enough toxic damage via the game or in real-life
Lastly on skill issue, you can make 10 perfect predictions but all the gliscor user needs is ONE prediction to go their way and your counter or counters are toxic’d and the game is over as gliscor and friends will stall out the game . And don't get me started on substitute toxic protect builds
Gliscor is uncompetitive and broken, mainly because of the support available on flying builds. When teambuilding, a single gliscor counter is not enough and multiple are required … and that still doesn’t guarantee a favourable game. The flying core is so perfect that it feels like I’m restricted to a monotype team versus a complete defensive core. Please ban or suspect. It’s uncompetitive and broken.
This is an example of the low level conversations i've been listening to in the monotype room. Might as well unban Lugia too if "we need" to combat high offensive power as a reason to not ban something that's clearly broken
now that you say it like that it sound stupid. but was there any recent innovation? and no. not using heatran on steel doesn't change the meta.
I have an idea that's probably bad. but how about we just ban Alot of breakers? the tier feels almost flowcharty
With all due respect, how long have you been playing monotype? Do you genuinely consider yourself to be in a position to claim that there have been no recent cases of innovation? If you don’t consider the idea of using a team without the pokemon that’s been widely considered an auto include since the day it got released innovation I truly don’t know what you want. Not all innovation needs to change the meta, so let’s not move the goalpost. And yes, your idea is bad. What could banning a bunch of breakers possibly contribute to the meta? If you’re tired of the tier feeling “flowcharty” there are plenty of other options to go enjoy. myself and many others enjoy the intricacies of sv mono, but maybe you don’t and that is perfectly ok.
That sadly isn't how tiering works. While ban waves happen they're generally early in the gen/after major shifts (those being from usage which mono doesn't have) and new mons being released from DLCs/events (which there are non left for SV).
This then leads to us (the community) having to actually agree on what is the problem which is a struggle at the best of times. In the first Gouging Fire suspect we legit had people arguing that it was the wrong mon to be suspecting as we should of been suspecting Baxcalibur or Archaludon instead of Gouging Fire which lead to it remaining legal up until its second suspect where once again, Archaludon was bought up as the real problem instead of Gouging Fire.
Even just looking at Fire which is one of the main discussion points for power now. While most seem to be argreeing that something is too much, they're not agreeing on what it truly is. Is it Oger-H? Is it Heat Rock? Maybe its actually Volcarona. Who knows, but if we chuck all three we could be chucking out something that is an actually healthy elemenet just for the sake of just removing a lot breakers.
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This part is now just my own stuff and a lot more off the cuff (I'm typing this right before going to bed)
Holy shit, we're hating on Gliscor thank the lord, maybe my hate filled analysis wasn't invain. That being said reading through this has mildly changed my opinion. I still detest Gliscor with all my fury and if the council gave us a suspect for it I would vote ban in a heartbeat (provided I could stomach ladder long enough to get reqs) but maybe I should put that hatred aside temporiarly and try and channel it into calming down the offensive storm instead of just focusing on frying that stupid scropian. I think when it comes to calming down this offensive blaze, I think Oger-H + Heat Rock are a double deal for me. Fire with Heat Rock will still just be button click hell for so many types to handle while Oger-H still goes hella stupid due to how poorly designed Ivy Cudgel is (similiar thoughts I have to why I think Oger-W is unhealthy). Either that or Flutter, why are we coping this mon is healthy again, I forgot.
My problem with monotype is how (as I said) flowcharty it is.
Fire? Beating it is beating hearthflame and then use ground or water moves/Pokemon. And using it is actually worse in term of flowchartinass
Dragon? beat hoodra n archi and than use fairy/ice moves.
Fairy? Ghost? Fire? All the teams feel exactly the same.
Flying? It's still samey as everyone who wants to play balance uses torn-t gliscor corv balance.
Everything feels REALLY samey and I'm honestly sad of the missed potential.
Fire? Beating it is beating hearthflame and then use ground or water moves/Pokemon. And using it is actually worse in term of flowchartinass
Dragon? beat hoodra n archi and than use fairy/ice moves.
Fairy? Ghost? Fire? All the teams feel exactly the same.
Flying? It's still samey as everyone who wants to play balance uses torn-t gliscor corv balance.
Everything feels REALLY samey and I'm honestly sad of the missed potential.
Ban gliscor
Ban ogerpon h
Ban heat rock too?
We would see less mindless offense spam if that wasn't the only way to beat hoger and break through gliscor
Ban ogerpon h
Ban heat rock too?
We would see less mindless offense spam if that wasn't the only way to beat hoger and break through gliscor