Proposal Removing Non-Tour Games from Smogtours Lobby

[Stories]

Not here to point fingers or anything but

this is a bit ridiculous, sometimes it lasts for hours on important gamedays and it makes it really annoying as a spectator, especially as someone that usually isn't in the stours discord. If CC1v1 games could just be removed from lobby that would be awesome but flooding the lobby with non-tour games is a negative for spectators imo. I understand there's a difficult line to be drawn for what constitutes as a "non-tour game" because some tournaments aren't even hosted on smogon but I think that outlier is small enough that there is room for some kind of smogtours change or rule creation.

I'm not super married to this but I know myself and some others find the flooding pretty annoying '-'

 

[watashi]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9challengecup1v1-875653

 

[Star]

our cc1v1 games are arguably more exciting than 50% of tour games.

on a more serious note though I’d probably say it’d be cool if we removed them from showing up in game discussion? Lobby would still be a place to find them and it keeps game disc more curated as the place for “real” tour games + incentivizes going there a bit. Could also consider maybe not kicking ppl playing shit like cc1v1 out of game disc ig but that’s less important.

 

[goldmason]

Came to make the exact same post as the OP, I was doing a (admittedly non-smogon) stream and finding games was incredibly annoying compared to the usual experience. Would be cool if these games weren't broadcast at all.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Probably the best solution is a user side filter of tiers worth mentioning for a battle that the user can uncheck for any annoying tier they don't care about.

 

[Larry]

Could also consider maybe not kicking ppl playing shit like cc1v1 out of game disc ig but that’s less important.

why is this not a thing yet

I think a button along the lines of 'hide random formats' that stops these, as well as all other formats with randomly generated teams, from showing up would be ideal.

anyone wanna bo100 cc2v2?

 

[UT]

We are not going to modify game linking in lobby, but we are open to a more curated list in game discussion.

The initial idea is that any metagame featured in a trophy or ribbon tour links to both lobby and game discussion, while other metas (including the infamous 1v1 CC) only link to lobby. This will also hopefully encourage users looking for high-level tour discussion to sit in game discussion.

This would mean the following formats are linked to game discussion:

all gen OU
UU - PU
Ubers
Mono
LC
DOU
VGC
BSS
NatDex OU
Core OMs (AAA / BH / MnM / GG / STAB)
Draft

We are open to general feedback about the proposed change as well as specific feedback about which formats to link. Once we have a consensus, we will implement that change.

 

[FlamPoke]

Brought this up in stours server but posting for visibility/opinions -

Creating a second game discussion room that links the non-core formats (1v1, 2v2, Ubers UU, any other OM/UM/etc.) and allows for discussion there seems optimal. Several formats such as 1v1 play bo5/bo7 and removing the game links but still having discussion occur in the main game discussion room doesn't seem like it does much outside of the aforementioned 1v1 CC cup stuff which is usually just spam and not actual tournament games.

Giving these communities their own room so that different tournament games can run concurrently without the yap being overloaded into one room seems pretty sensible and shouldn't dissuade anyone from hanging out in either/both rooms (like UT, for instance, would probably watch both an SPL game and AAAPL game at the same time with both rooms open and be able to toggle back and forth between different rooms for discussion).

 

[Itchy]

We are not going to modify game linking in lobby, but we are open to a more curated list in game discussion.

The initial idea is that any metagame featured in a trophy or ribbon tour links to both lobby and game discussion, while other metas (including the infamous 1v1 CC) only link to lobby. This will also hopefully encourage users looking for high-level tour discussion to sit in game discussion.

This would mean the following formats are linked to game discussion:

all gen OU
UU - PU
Ubers
Mono
LC
DOU
VGC
BSS
NatDex OU
Core OMs (AAA / BH / MnM / GG / STAB)
Draft

We are open to general feedback about the proposed change as well as specific feedback about which formats to link. Once we have a consensus, we will implement that change.

1v1 has genuinely been using game discussion for our bo5 / bo7 sets for our major team tournaments, more than some trophy metas. Would it be possible to keep linking these games to game discussion too, possibly also other flagship UMs for consistency?

 

[LittEleven]

diff room for discussion for everything you deem a garbage meta sounds fair? what's the point of removing a privilege for people who actually used a room for its intended purpose :/ most um formats (zu, uubers) are easier to follow than any om for a random person in game discussion so unsure what criterion was used to draw up this, because it's definitely not complexity.

atp this suggestion draws from tier elitism and regardless of how it's spun, if implemented in this form it just sucks for these communities even more to play on smogtours, which is being pushed in every tour as a more streamlined way to play tournament games. please do not implement a version that fails to consider the people being excluded; most actions are not out of malice and those that are should be moderated on their negatives.

 

[Excal]

don't think a new game discussion room is necessary. 1v1 can still use game discussion to armchair their games, they just won't link in game discussion. that doesn't seem like a big deal -- the format's several games in a series + much shorter game length makes it flood way more. it's easier to find 1v1 games in lobby than other formats due to this, which is what the proposal is trying to address. game discussion filtering out 1v1 and other unofficial formats just makes it easier to find official tournament games on big game days. i think it makes a lot of sense for us to try the curated list that ut posted above and see how it goes.

 

[a fairy]

Also, to be clear, this is less about cherrypicking formats and more about highjacking a useful pre-existing list (ribbon circuits) to make this less subjective. If something would gain a ribbon in the future, it would be added to the list under the current understanding of what the list is for.

 

[RADU]

From a Technical Implementation perspective, would it be possible to make it so that the in-game chat is selective about who can see the messages?

Make it so players can only read server messages and the other player, while spectators could be free to speculate directly in the game chat, since their messages would be invisible to who is currently playing.

This would also be saved in the replay, allowing spectators and players alike to read through the full discussion logs once the game is over

 

[UT]

would it be possible to make it so that the in-game chat is selective about who can see the messages

Even if this was technically possible, this runs into the same issue that "just kick them from lobby" runs into; the player could open a second tab as a guest and see the discussion just fine. The main technical advantage of game discussion is that it is gated to stours gvoice.

I would also like to re-iterate that the starting list is just that, a starting list; if there are formats we think should also be included or excluded, the list can absolutely be adjusted from where it is.

 

[RADU]

Even if this was technically possible, this runs into the same issue that "just kick them from lobby" runs into; the player could open a second tab as a guest and see the discussion just fine.

I would also like to re-iterate that the starting list is just that, a starting list; if there are formats we think should also be included or excluded, the list can absolutely be adjusted from where it is.

can exclude guests/unvoiced accounts from seeing the messages too, then; give it the same restrictions you have for seeing game discussion room.

also if there's concerns about this being too inconvenient or confusing as a default, you could make it a /modchat speculation mode, or the default behavior when you do /modchat player, and players/admins can toggle it as they see fit (again all depending on whether this is possible implementation wise)

 

[Dorron]

Would there be a posibility for users to specify somewhere before challenging, like the best-of feature for random battle, the tournament they are playing for?

Of course abusing this would result in infractions and all that, basic rules.

 

[Zcarlett]

We are not going to modify game linking in lobby, but we are open to a more curated list in game discussion.

The initial idea is that any metagame featured in a trophy or ribbon tour links to both lobby and game discussion, while other metas (including the infamous 1v1 CC) only link to lobby. This will also hopefully encourage users looking for high-level tour discussion to sit in game discussion.

This would mean the following formats are linked to game discussion:

all gen OU
UU - PU
Ubers
Mono
LC
DOU
VGC
BSS
NatDex OU
Core OMs (AAA / BH / MnM / GG / STAB)
Draft

We are open to general feedback about the proposed change as well as specific feedback about which formats to link. Once we have a consensus, we will implement that change.

Going to keep this brief since I dont have a ton to add but I would like to reiterate that feels really odd to link the "core OMs" and not any of the UMs. This is not an insult to anyone who thinks these metas should be linked, but it feels like a weird double standard (even if it does align with the ribbon/trophy aspect mentioned) to have stuff like AAA and BH go through while AG and ZU get blocked. If 1v1 and 2v2 take up too much space so you don't link them while still allowing discussion, fair enough, but the 6v6 UMs should be linked as well.