leaks say +10 spe.. sorry
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
A second unblockable Volt Switch suggestion has hit the ZAOU Forum
I know I'm probably being dumb and missing something obvious, but I do somewhat wonder why that's considered some terrible thing when u turn and flip turn already exist and are largely unblockable? I mean unblockable volt switch sounds annoying sure but nothing immediately comes to mind as to why it would be so much worse than those moves
Volt switch doesn't make contact so you can't really punish it getting mindlessly spammed unlike Turn and Flip, and things like Parting don't make progress. Basically it becomes a completely free unpunishable click that also maintains momentum AND makes progress.
Run it like you would Ash Greninja but replace the pivot move with Nasty Plot.
First of all, Parting Shot is arguably the best Pivot move of the 4 mentioned. Not dealing damage pails in comparison to letting deadly sweepers have an easier to set up or keeping more health on your breakers. That’s way more impactful than some chip damage.
For Example Mega Greninja goes from being KO’d with hazards up to tanking and having some health to spare after Clefable is at -1
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Mega: 236-278 (82.8 - 97.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Mega: 156-186 (54.7 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This either lets Greninja use Nasty Plot or KO a weakened Clefable depending on if it just switched in or was using Moonblast.
Second, hazards exist. And if the ability is tied to a Mega, that means you can’t wear HDBs and have to use a Mega Stone. Additionally you’re also taking damage any time you switch into an attack. So it’s not like pivoting moves go unpunished.
It’s also not like U-turn or Flip Turn are instant win buttons against teams that don’t have contact punishment, nor is Volt Switch once you remove the opponent’s Ground type or if they had a Ground type to begin with.
Elektross is gonna be tossed into the streets in three weeks it's so over
You can get Protean's type changing twice if you delay Mega-ing your Greninja until you absolutely need it. Sure your initial U-Turns are about 15% weaker, as are your initial Ice Beams, but being able to click Ice Beam on a Garchomp while they switch out to Hoodra, and then clicking the Mega button and OHKO'ing with Low Kick will win you a lot of matches. This dramatically raises the power-level of Mega Greninja, and anyone using the mon absolutely should be abusing it.
This has been your PSA of the day.
This has been your PSA of the day.
what if Mega Zeraora got Electromorphisis? I know it's not good at all at taking hits but I feel like it could fit with the description of Zeraora overcharging itself
Mega Eelektross is already for the streets. It’s a slow, frail, mixed attacker. And it already competes with Mega Manectric, which is still bad but is somehow better because at least its fast.
GameFreak making 5 Mono Electric Megas when Ice only has 4 in total now is also crazy.
FUCK ICE
I think Protean and Mega Greninja are fine, but Battle Bond is too much. It restricts you a lot on the builder.
Starmie with Thunderbolt is probably the best mega in the tier. Mega Gallade with Sharpness is also very strong if you run a bulky setup set but unfortunately it has to pick between Shadow Sneak and Night Slash, and without Night Slash it is hard walled by Sableye.
I'm seeing a lot of rest talk dtail Gyarados. I think it's bad. Am I missing something?
Overall this tier reminds me a lot of ORAS and this makes me happy. It's so similar that, like in ORAS, offense vs offense matchup is often decided by a single turn of hax. If this metagame had the genies and the legendary birds, it would be close to perfect. I'm stuck with Talonflame as discount Moltres.
Starmie with Thunderbolt is probably the best mega in the tier. Mega Gallade with Sharpness is also very strong if you run a bulky setup set but unfortunately it has to pick between Shadow Sneak and Night Slash, and without Night Slash it is hard walled by Sableye.
I'm seeing a lot of rest talk dtail Gyarados. I think it's bad. Am I missing something?
Overall this tier reminds me a lot of ORAS and this makes me happy. It's so similar that, like in ORAS, offense vs offense matchup is often decided by a single turn of hax. If this metagame had the genies and the legendary birds, it would be close to perfect. I'm stuck with Talonflame as discount Moltres.
Wait, how was giving M-Gren Skill Link decided AGAINST in favor of Technician??? Skill Link essentially only buffs water shuriken to an effective 75 base power, compared to Technician buffing Water Shuriken to an average of 56.6 (basically 60) BP along with Flip Turn (Which is what really made Tech M-Gren broken and got the ability changed to protean).&
After much discussion in the ZA OU discord and playing the tier plenty more (finally broke 1300)I must finally come out against Greninja...
And im not just after the mega, im after the frog itself.
This Pokemon is so unbelievably meta warping that the only reason why its still here was because Zygarde-50 was tearing the tier apart so that had to go first, but then (correct me if im wrong) we realised giving Mega Greninja Skill Link was way too strong, so we gave it technician, but that was also too strong, so now we opted for Protean. While some may argue it would be fine with Torrent or some throwaway ability like Illuminate, I disagree heavily, since Mega Greninja stat mogs so much of the tier that it ain't worth trying to preserve. I also dont think it brings much to the tier, other then an unwanted speed tier that causes leading against it to be terrible.
Let me start with Mega Greninja because that guy might get banned soon and i want to plead my case before any possible second thoughts. 142 base speed is already too high for such a low power tier like this. That puts it in the top 3 speediest mons in the tier. Who are the next 2 above? Mega Beedrill, who as we all know is Potential Mon himself, and Mega Aerodactyl, who drops to a Bullet Punch. We all know about how it speed ties Dragapult, but Dragapult has 120 attack and 100 sp.atk, while high, is outmuscled by Mega Greninja's 125 atack and 133 sp.atk. So by stats alone, we're dealing with what is essentiallyBattle Bond DragapultMini-Ash Greninja. Doesn't seem that bad right? Not really, until you look at all of its checks...
Hoodra has been one of the best Greninja checks in the tier. It and Volcanionprobably are the reason(s) why Greninja hasnt been banned immediately, its massive Special Defense, Steel/Dragon typing and good offensive stats means that careless Greninja's do like 30% to it at most with a special attack and get smacked with a Draco Meteor. Problem sol- oh he has Low Kick, which ohko's max hp 4 def Hoodra...
192 Atk Protean Greninja-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra-Hisui: 366-432 (100.5 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So its best theoretical check gets smacked by Low Kick. And Clefable? I havent really seen a Clefable do well into a Greninja yet, but Clefable often gets Gunk Shot anyway and steamrolled. Remember, you cannot outspeed this thing unless you have 1) boosted speed already 2) choice scarf'd on certain mons or 3) naturally speed tie it (itslef) or outpace it (
and
) Slowtwins, both Galar and Kanto? Well im not too sure what you're doing switching a Psychic type into a Dark type, unless you know they dont have Dark Pulse. But those guys get U-Turn'd on and checked by Greninja's teammates.
You could try to mash priority such as Scizor's Bullet Punchor Dragonite's Extreme Speed
, but again, Greninja should have teammates. Also, Flame Body Talonflame
makes using (contact) priority unwise anyway, since one burn and its over for most physical attackers in the tier.
So we cant outspeed the guy, we cant wall it because it might have the set that beats your wall, and if it doesnt it just U-Turns out, and we cant out-offense the guy because that can be a risky gambit if your goal is to check/stop Mega Greninja given, say a teammate Talonflame switching in and burning you with Flame Body, or bulky Garchomp coming in, taking 13% or smth with Rough Skin, more with Rocky Helmet, and doing bulky Garchomp things.
Okay but lets say we do try to change its ability to Torrent. Mega Greninja can't OHKO Hoodra anymore with Low Kick, but this guy isn't exactly frail, so its entirely possible to run Swords Dance and...
+2 0 Atk Greninja-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra-Hisui: 416-490 (114.2 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
...now our best check gets OHKO'd again, but now its threatening to sweep us harder because its at +2. Does Torrent make Mega Greninja's life a lot harder? Yes, losing a coverage move and having to safely pick up a Swords Dance in the first place can be tricky, but given how fast it is, good luck actually stopping this if it does happen. And im only covering for if the Mega Greninja is physical since i believe that is rising in popularity right now. I imagine theres a few different sets you can run on Mega Greninja, with mixed likely being the second best.
For these reasons, I say get rid of Mega Greninja at the next possible oppurtunity. No beating around the bush with Torrent or Illuminate or some other ability.
Last edited: