leaks say +10 spe.. sorry
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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
A second unblockable Volt Switch suggestion has hit the ZAOU Forum
I know I'm probably being dumb and missing something obvious, but I do somewhat wonder why that's considered some terrible thing when u turn and flip turn already exist and are largely unblockable? I mean unblockable volt switch sounds annoying sure but nothing immediately comes to mind as to why it would be so much worse than those moves
Volt switch doesn't make contact so you can't really punish it getting mindlessly spammed unlike Turn and Flip, and things like Parting don't make progress. Basically it becomes a completely free unpunishable click that also maintains momentum AND makes progress.
Run it like you would Ash Greninja but replace the pivot move with Nasty Plot.
First of all, Parting Shot is arguably the best Pivot move of the 4 mentioned. Not dealing damage pails in comparison to letting deadly sweepers have an easier to set up or keeping more health on your breakers. That’s way more impactful than some chip damage.
For Example Mega Greninja goes from being KO’d with hazards up to tanking and having some health to spare after Clefable is at -1
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Mega: 236-278 (82.8 - 97.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Mega: 156-186 (54.7 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This either lets Greninja use Nasty Plot or KO a weakened Clefable depending on if it just switched in or was using Moonblast.
Second, hazards exist. And if the ability is tied to a Mega, that means you can’t wear HDBs and have to use a Mega Stone. Additionally you’re also taking damage any time you switch into an attack. So it’s not like pivoting moves go unpunished.
It’s also not like U-turn or Flip Turn are instant win buttons against teams that don’t have contact punishment, nor is Volt Switch once you remove the opponent’s Ground type or if they had a Ground type to begin with.
Elektross is gonna be tossed into the streets in three weeks it's so over
You can get Protean's type changing twice if you delay Mega-ing your Greninja until you absolutely need it. Sure your initial U-Turns are about 15% weaker, as are your initial Ice Beams, but being able to click Ice Beam on a Garchomp while they switch out to Hoodra, and then clicking the Mega button and OHKO'ing with Low Kick will win you a lot of matches. This dramatically raises the power-level of Mega Greninja, and anyone using the mon absolutely should be abusing it.
This has been your PSA of the day.
This has been your PSA of the day.
what if Mega Zeraora got Electromorphisis? I know it's not good at all at taking hits but I feel like it could fit with the description of Zeraora overcharging itself
Mega Eelektross is already for the streets. It’s a slow, frail, mixed attacker. And it already competes with Mega Manectric, which is still bad but is somehow better because at least its fast.
GameFreak making 5 Mono Electric Megas when Ice only has 4 in total now is also crazy.
FUCK ICE
I think Protean and Mega Greninja are fine, but Battle Bond is too much. It restricts you a lot on the builder.
Starmie with Thunderbolt is probably the best mega in the tier. Mega Gallade with Sharpness is also very strong if you run a bulky setup set but unfortunately it has to pick between Shadow Sneak and Night Slash, and without Night Slash it is hard walled by Sableye.
I'm seeing a lot of rest talk dtail Gyarados. I think it's bad. Am I missing something?
Overall this tier reminds me a lot of ORAS and this makes me happy. It's so similar that, like in ORAS, offense vs offense matchup is often decided by a single turn of hax. If this metagame had the genies and the legendary birds, it would be close to perfect. I'm stuck with Talonflame as discount Moltres.
Starmie with Thunderbolt is probably the best mega in the tier. Mega Gallade with Sharpness is also very strong if you run a bulky setup set but unfortunately it has to pick between Shadow Sneak and Night Slash, and without Night Slash it is hard walled by Sableye.
I'm seeing a lot of rest talk dtail Gyarados. I think it's bad. Am I missing something?
Overall this tier reminds me a lot of ORAS and this makes me happy. It's so similar that, like in ORAS, offense vs offense matchup is often decided by a single turn of hax. If this metagame had the genies and the legendary birds, it would be close to perfect. I'm stuck with Talonflame as discount Moltres.
Wait, how was giving M-Gren Skill Link decided AGAINST in favor of Technician??? Skill Link essentially only buffs water shuriken to an effective 75 base power, compared to Technician buffing Water Shuriken to an average of 56.6 (basically 60) BP along with Flip Turn (Which is what really made Tech M-Gren broken and got the ability changed to protean).&
After much discussion in the ZA OU discord and playing the tier plenty more (finally broke 1300)I must finally come out against Greninja...
And im not just after the mega, im after the frog itself.
This Pokemon is so unbelievably meta warping that the only reason why its still here was because Zygarde-50 was tearing the tier apart so that had to go first, but then (correct me if im wrong) we realised giving Mega Greninja Skill Link was way too strong, so we gave it technician, but that was also too strong, so now we opted for Protean. While some may argue it would be fine with Torrent or some throwaway ability like Illuminate, I disagree heavily, since Mega Greninja stat mogs so much of the tier that it ain't worth trying to preserve. I also dont think it brings much to the tier, other then an unwanted speed tier that causes leading against it to be terrible.
Let me start with Mega Greninja because that guy might get banned soon and i want to plead my case before any possible second thoughts. 142 base speed is already too high for such a low power tier like this. That puts it in the top 3 speediest mons in the tier. Who are the next 2 above? Mega Beedrill, who as we all know is Potential Mon himself, and Mega Aerodactyl, who drops to a Bullet Punch. We all know about how it speed ties Dragapult, but Dragapult has 120 attack and 100 sp.atk, while high, is outmuscled by Mega Greninja's 125 atack and 133 sp.atk. So by stats alone, we're dealing with what is essentiallyBattle Bond DragapultMini-Ash Greninja. Doesn't seem that bad right? Not really, until you look at all of its checks...
Hoodra has been one of the best Greninja checks in the tier. It and Volcanionprobably are the reason(s) why Greninja hasnt been banned immediately, its massive Special Defense, Steel/Dragon typing and good offensive stats means that careless Greninja's do like 30% to it at most with a special attack and get smacked with a Draco Meteor. Problem sol- oh he has Low Kick, which ohko's max hp 4 def Hoodra...
192 Atk Protean Greninja-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra-Hisui: 366-432 (100.5 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So its best theoretical check gets smacked by Low Kick. And Clefable? I havent really seen a Clefable do well into a Greninja yet, but Clefable often gets Gunk Shot anyway and steamrolled. Remember, you cannot outspeed this thing unless you have 1) boosted speed already 2) choice scarf'd on certain mons or 3) naturally speed tie it (itslef) or outpace it (
and
) Slowtwins, both Galar and Kanto? Well im not too sure what you're doing switching a Psychic type into a Dark type, unless you know they dont have Dark Pulse. But those guys get U-Turn'd on and checked by Greninja's teammates.
You could try to mash priority such as Scizor's Bullet Punchor Dragonite's Extreme Speed
, but again, Greninja should have teammates. Also, Flame Body Talonflame
makes using (contact) priority unwise anyway, since one burn and its over for most physical attackers in the tier.
So we cant outspeed the guy, we cant wall it because it might have the set that beats your wall, and if it doesnt it just U-Turns out, and we cant out-offense the guy because that can be a risky gambit if your goal is to check/stop Mega Greninja given, say a teammate Talonflame switching in and burning you with Flame Body, or bulky Garchomp coming in, taking 13% or smth with Rough Skin, more with Rocky Helmet, and doing bulky Garchomp things.
Okay but lets say we do try to change its ability to Torrent. Mega Greninja can't OHKO Hoodra anymore with Low Kick, but this guy isn't exactly frail, so its entirely possible to run Swords Dance and...
+2 0 Atk Greninja-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra-Hisui: 416-490 (114.2 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
...now our best check gets OHKO'd again, but now its threatening to sweep us harder because its at +2. Does Torrent make Mega Greninja's life a lot harder? Yes, losing a coverage move and having to safely pick up a Swords Dance in the first place can be tricky, but given how fast it is, good luck actually stopping this if it does happen. And im only covering for if the Mega Greninja is physical since i believe that is rising in popularity right now. I imagine theres a few different sets you can run on Mega Greninja, with mixed likely being the second best.
For these reasons, I say get rid of Mega Greninja at the next possible oppurtunity. No beating around the bush with Torrent or Illuminate or some other ability.
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New ability: Solar Petals- moves used by this Pokémon are always treated as if they were used under harsh sunlight.
Reasoning: All of M-Meganium's lore entries mention the fact that it stores solar power in its petals, specifically in the context of it being able to fire off Solar beams. So, I think an ability like this would give M-Meganium a more unique and flavorful playstyle in a few ways.
1. Solar Beam: Now Solar Beam lives up to the lore entries becoming M-Meganium single strongest move, a 120bp STAB move with no drawbacks. Held back, of course, by grass being one of the most heavily resisted types in the game. Solar Petals also means that Solar beam's power would not be cut in other weathers, allowing M-Meganium to 2-hi KO all non av Ttars.
2. Weather Ball: Weather Ball promptly becomes M-Meganium's second strongest move, becoming an effective 150bp Fire move regardless of weather. Now M-Meganium isn't beaten by default by the most common mon in the meta, in fact Skarmory has to be careful on the switch less it gets melted.
3.Synthesis: This is the real coup of this new ability that grants Meganium a defensive aspect of its playstyle. Now Synthesis always heals 75% hp, this allows M-Meganium to leverage its bulk to take a hit against the many faster threats in the meta before firing off a powerfull attack, and then you can heal Meganium up to nearly full. Furthermore, unlike Every other Synthesis user who have their healing crippled if a non-sun weather is active, M-Meganium would be able to heal to near full regardless, giving it a good match up against sand teams in particular.
Now even with all this Meganium is still slow with no means of set up or priority, it also would now be vulnerable to status giving slower teams a chance against it. But overall, I think this would be a good change that would give Meganium a unique and powerful presence in the metagame.
I think this is actually a really nice idea. Meganium as it is right now is baffling to me. I understand taking triage away, because it couldnt really capitalize well on it. What I don't understand is giving
- Audino Regenerator
- Chandelure Magic Guard
- Gallade Sharpness
- Chesnaught Protective Thorns
- Falinks Brass Bond
- Malamar Contrarian
- Emboar Supreme Overlord
- Eelektross a built in Specs+Levitate in Ion Battery
Dont get me wrong, I love that these mons have these abilities and some fit thematically well/are really necessary to get any value. But Flower Veil on Meganium is practically useless. On paper, it seems nice. But if you think about it, what status is so terrible for meganium that it needs this? It doesnt care about burn, poison is just not great in general and paralysis is only bad because of the rng involved. What stat lowering moves are affecting it in a bad way? Parting shot??
I and many others are very grateful that we even have the opportunity to play around with these new mons. But if its just a made up tier with made up abilities, why not give meganium something more unique and more powerful? It is a fan favorite for a lot of ppl and so many other mons got rly strong abilities that either werent on the mons before, or are completely made up, just to make them slightly viable. Whats the agenda against Meganium? With so many steels and poison coverage running around in the tier, not even a rly OP ability would make it ban worthy. Would be nice to get an explanation for this, bc im genuinely baffled about it. And ive seen so many better ability suggestions for it in this thread. Clefable, Scrafty and Meganium, to me it just feels a little bit like bias. Some old megas too. Mega Houndoom has 0 benefit from Solar Power, but Ampharos gets Fluffy and Audino gets Regen?
And please dont come with the "thematic sense" argument. Yeah Shed Skin would theoretically make sense on Scrafty. But then how does Soul Heart make sense on Nite? Or Serene Grace on Clef? And remember, this metagame was made to explore the new megas (not my words btw). So giving them random abilities that are good is more sensible to me than thematically correct abilities.
Please dont take this the wrong way, if someone can give me a reasonable explanation for all this, Ill shut up about it. Just for now I am a bit disappointed that there seems to be some sort of favoritism towards certain mons.
quoting dhelmise and the pokedex,
Mega Evolution has excessively powered up this Pokémon's feelings of kindness. It finishes off its opponents with mercy in its heart. , so I felt like Soul-Heart fits this perfectly.
I opted for Serene Grace over Aerilate or Magic Guard because its Pokedex entry describes it being very timid, and I also feel like Aerilate is way too anticipated/overdone. Open to other ideas though.
Mega Emboar's entry is Brandishing a blazing flame shaped like a serpentine spear, it rushes in to rescue its imperiled allies., which fits pretty aptly. Open to suggestions though.
Clarifying, this tier hasnt tried to go for a more "realistic" approach, predicting how the first ZAOU metagame would be like. It's more like something that gives these ass megas a chance. Eelektross has one of the worst stat distributions EVER, and the 1.5 special attack has given it a place in OU as a balance breaker, something that would never happen if it only had Levitate. Chandelure is another Pokemon that saw 0 use until finding a niche with Magic Guard. Malamar becoming super smart and getting double the effect of its original ability is probably not something gamefreak would do, but Malamar would be nuked into irrelevancy without its custom. I can go on
Gallade on the other hand got Sharpness after its Mega, and Audino has always been robbed due to losing Regenerator from its base form. Giving these pokemon a place in ZAOU isn't so wrong, its a petmod thats saying "lets have fun with megas" instead of "lets try and get an early gen 10 ou". Otherwise they would just ban megas instead of adequetly nerf them and let us continue playing with them.
Thanks for the reply, I really see your points.
I just hope that there can be some changes to Scrafty and especially Meganium, because the possibility to "have fun with megas" doesnt really apply with these mons. I dont mind the other mons getting abilities that give them a niche, but Flower Veil and Shed Skin dont provide much.
Thanks anyway for putting in the effort and providing the opportunity to play this metagame. While I and others complain a lot, because different opinions are always going to exist, it is still amazing that we are even able to use Meganium and co at all. :)
I don’t see any current Megas getting new abilities any time soon.
It’s been a while since any Megas got new abilities. Last one I believe was Chandelure getting Magic Guard.
At this point might as well ask to give Mega Malamar that auto-Trick Room ability some people have been speculating that it’ll get.
To balance out Auto Trick Room, I think it’d be good to have said ability be more like Sand Spit than Sand Stream. You know, requiring your opponent to hit you rather than activating Trick Room on switch.
This would prevent Malamar from making revenge killing of DD sweepers or fast Nasty Plotters too easy. It’d need to actually tank a hit itself to do so.
Additionally it only activates once per switch in like Protean, so you don’t activate Trick Room while Trick Room is up.
It’s been a while since any Megas got new abilities. Last one I believe was Chandelure getting Magic Guard.
At this point might as well ask to give Mega Malamar that auto-Trick Room ability some people have been speculating that it’ll get.
To balance out Auto Trick Room, I think it’d be good to have said ability be more like Sand Spit than Sand Stream. You know, requiring your opponent to hit you rather than activating Trick Room on switch.
This would prevent Malamar from making revenge killing of DD sweepers or fast Nasty Plotters too easy. It’d need to actually tank a hit itself to do so.
Additionally it only activates once per switch in like Protean, so you don’t activate Trick Room while Trick Room is up.
Hey I have a quick question, does anyone know how to use the custom abilities from the new megas in a custom game ? I am doing a draft league with some friends and we wanted to implement the new megas, as well as a nat dex (since the za Dex is so small). But even if we use the pokemon already in the mega form, the megas are invalid because of the new abilities. Does anyone have a workaround ?
tbh this'd be cooler if you could turn it off by hitting malamar
That would make the ability nearly useless. If you don’t score a KO you then shut off your own Trick Room and probably get yourself KO’d.
What do you not understand about giving those abilities to the megas? Is it why those abilities were chosen, why some megas received custom abilities, or something else?
I disagree that Flower Veil is useless for Meganium. I actually consider it a very solid option.
Burns are especially annoying for a mon that can't use boots or leftovers. Flower Veil makes Meganium a safe switch in to Scald and Will-O-Wisp. Paralysis is annoying, yeah, but having a safe switch-in to Thunder Wave aside from Excadrill is very valuable. In particular, it counters bulky Thunder Wave Gyarados (god I hate that thing). Toxic isn't too common but absolutely ruins fat mons. But those aren't the only status effects it blocks. Taunt and Encore don't work on it either. This means some of the more common counter play against fat mons just fails outright. Every Sableye is hard countered.
Admittedly, the stat changes don't matter much. Denying Parting Shot is funny but Intimidate doesn't matter and Sticky Web isn't important. I think the best value is not having to worry about stat drops from Moonblast and Shadow Ball. It's a neat perk.
I forget if Flower Veil prevents flinching but I don't think it does.
The burn immunity is also great because Mega Meganium actually really appreciates using Knock Off and Dragon Tail.
Honestly Mega Meganium as a whole would be better as a physical attacker. It has Sword Dance and pretty good physical options too. The status immunity is already good, but it’s be more important if you’re running a Bulky Sword Dance to avoid Paralysis and Burns. And an intimidate immunity to boot as well.
Honestly Mega Meganium as a whole would be better as a physical attacker. It has Sword Dance and pretty good physical options too. The status immunity is already good, but it’s be more important if you’re running a Bulky Sword Dance to avoid Paralysis and Burns. And an intimidate immunity to boot as well.
Maybe I worded my original comment badly. What I meant was considering how great some of the abilities given to other megas are, Meganiums and some others feel much worse. Yeah sure Flower Veil isnt bad, but Regenerator, Magic Guard, Ion Battery, Supreme Overlord, Brass Bond and so on are fantastic. Flower Veil is just decent.
Meganium has Leech Seed, Giga Drain and Synthesis to offset residual damage, so burn wouldnt affect it much even without Veil.
My wish was just for this mon and some others to get better abilities, so that they could be more viable and more fun in OU. Bc as it stands there are like 2 or 3 viable new Megas in the tier. It's a tier for a lot of players just wanting to have fun, but imo Meganium, Scrafty or Clef arent that much fun to use in OU. Brass bond Falinks might not be super viable, but at least its fun.
Ion Battery, Supreme Overlord and Magic Guard allow for fun strategies as well. Veil is just, and i quote: "The burn immunity is also great because Mega Meganium actually really appreciates using Knock Off and Dragon Tail." and "Flower Veil makes Meganium a safe switch in to Scald and Will-O-Wisp.". Its not entirely about viability, but as the Mods have repeatedly stated, it is about fun. Imo Veil is decent, but not great and not much fun.
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Starmie, Excadrill, Greninja, Floette-E, Chesnaught, Delphox, Skarmory
There’s plenty new megas that are viable. I’m not really understanding this at all.