Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[JackRG]

i am agreeing that dragonite is a bit ridiculous, but to be honest it has the exact same pattern that got most things banned. we all just accept the nonsense at this point

yeah and tbh, at this point, banning dnite would be hypocritical imo. The playerbase have decided to keep tera blast in the tier, so people need to accept that these boost sweepers are going to reward cheese. No point complaining about it when this is the metagame people wanted, after all

 

[Avira]

yeah and tbh, at this point, banning dnite would be hypocritical imo. The playerbase have decided to keep tera blast in the tier, so people need to accept that these boost sweepers are going to reward cheese. No point complaining about it when this is the metagame people wanted, after all

Eh... I wouldn't call it hypocritical. Tera Blast does have a notable effect this generation in amplifying variance and the fishy nature of SV tiers, but it's not so insanely bonkers like Last Respects that close to everyone wants it gone (I personally do) even if the tier would likely improve with Tera Blast gone. Based on the updated tiering framework, Pokemon bans should be prioritized over other elements, and the reasoning for the decision behind the updated framework is not bad even if not applied perfectly (like how Commander is banned instead of Tatsugiri in Doubles OU even though Tatsugiri being played with Dondozo is a part of its identity and why the mon was made in the first place). It's not necessary to judge people for their values for wanting to ban Dragonite instead of Tera Blast by calling a future ban on Dragonite hypocritical.

 

[pixelpenguin]

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Tera Blast
- Earthquake
been playing with Gyarados, this mon ain't half bad tbh. it has a great defensive typing for guys like Tusk and Ogerpon and with this coverage, it punches holes into common defensive structures. why this over DNite? with Water STAB, it has immediate power into Ground types unlike Dnite who usually doesn't have STAB. Intimidate can provide value several times per game, letting it come in without fear of losing the one time chance to set-up that Multiscale provides. this lets it contribute defensively to the team much more easily than DNite. I like Leftovers here because it lets you abuse the physical attackers you Intimidate and set up on them. Tera Blast Electric hits Mola and Corv for big damage while walling Zapdos and resisting Thunderclap. Overall I like this as a bulky sweeper with more immediate power and defensive use than DNite since it isn't dependent on Multiscale. Ironically this set loses hard to DNite but you can't have it all.

 

[escarlata]

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Tera Blast
- Earthquake
been playing with Gyarados, this mon ain't half bad tbh. it has a great defensive typing for guys like Tusk and Ogerpon and with this coverage, it punches holes into common defensive structures. why this over DNite? with Water STAB, it has immediate power into Ground types unlike Dnite who usually doesn't have STAB. Intimidate can provide value several times per game, letting it come in without fear of losing the one time chance to set-up that Multiscale provides. this lets it contribute defensively to the team much more easily than DNite. I like Leftovers here because it lets you abuse the physical attackers you Intimidate and set up on them. Tera Blast Electric hits Mola and Corv for big damage while walling Zapdos and resisting Thunderclap. Overall I like this as a bulky sweeper with more immediate power and defensive use than DNite since it isn't dependent on Multiscale. Ironically this set loses hard to DNite but you can't have it all.

Gyarados is something that I've had some success with on Veil offense as a mini-Bax.

As you have mentioned, one of Gyarados's biggest advantage is his typing. Not only does his Water STAB mean that he can naturally threaten Ground types, taking Ice neutrally is a really huge advantage for a Flying type, especially in a time where most Ground and Fighting types are preferring to run Ice over Rock as their secondary coverage.

The big tool which Gyarados has access to that makes it great on Veil offense is access to Taunt. With Moon banned, Gyarados is the most threatening mon with access to the combination of DD + Taunt, which can really spiral out of control really quickly once conventional solutions to physical attackers like Corviknight or Pecharunt lose access to their recovery.

I run 84 HP / 176 Atk / 248 Jolly with Waterfall and Tera Blast Fairy. 248 Jolly notably outruns Dragapult and OHKO at +1, 176 Atk OHKOs Raging Bolt, and the 84 in HP survives CB Rillaboom Grassy Glide after SR and 1 turn of lefties recovery.

 

[Avira]

well right now what do people like about the tier? what do they dislike

Some people want Ceruledge gone (my #1 ban target). Others want Light Clay gone to nerf screens/Veil, but I think Ceruledge being gone may already be a big enough nerf to screens/Veil given it's by far the best abuser of those HO archetypes. Dragonite is probably the most popular ban target right now, but we'll need another survey to see if there's enough support from high ladder and tournament players to get a suspect test of Dragonite, and I suspect that if Tera Blast is on the survey it will decrease Dragonite's chances of having a high enough score to get that suspect test some players want since some people will give Dragonite a lower score due to Tera Blast's presence on the survey given Tera Blast being heavily tied to the most abusive Dragonite sets. Ogerpon-Wellspring will probably never get a suspect this generation, so don't get your hopes up of that happening given it's mostly stall players and some balance players that want her gone, which isn't enough of the playerbase.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Tera Blast
- Earthquake
been playing with Gyarados, this mon ain't half bad tbh. it has a great defensive typing for guys like Tusk and Ogerpon and with this coverage, it punches holes into common defensive structures. why this over DNite? with Water STAB, it has immediate power into Ground types unlike Dnite who usually doesn't have STAB. Intimidate can provide value several times per game, letting it come in without fear of losing the one time chance to set-up that Multiscale provides. this lets it contribute defensively to the team much more easily than DNite. I like Leftovers here because it lets you abuse the physical attackers you Intimidate and set up on them. Tera Blast Electric hits Mola and Corv for big damage while walling Zapdos and resisting Thunderclap. Overall I like this as a bulky sweeper with more immediate power and defensive use than DNite since it isn't dependent on Multiscale. Ironically this set loses hard to DNite but you can't have it all.

This set probably does work in OU, but I have had more success with bulkier sets in higher tiers. There's enough firepower where Gyarados works better in a supporting role for something even more broken to clean the mess Gyarados creates. My personal favorite set is below:


Gyarados (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave

Speed tier is for taste here (I personally run a modified spread most of the time). Taunt + Thunder Wave works in tandem to slow down tempo and setup opportunities. The opportunity cost of not having a setup sweeper is real, but if that's what you want Gyarados to do, there are other lower tiers where it can to that more effectively. It's the lower tier star who can adapt to higher level play but has to go in a support role to survive.

 

[Hon07rial]

Good Morning, Smogon!

With a very reasonable general feeling that this generation is coming to a soon close, I can't help but feel that it is too soon and many things are far from totally explored, and on the top of that list is...

Stellar Terastalization​

When a Pokémon Terastallizes into the Stellar type, it gains an attack boost for every move's type, but only once per type; 2× for the Pokémon's original types and 1.2× (4915/4096) for every other type, including Stellar. After a move is used, no other moves of that same type will receive this boost from being Terastallized.​

​

1. Sets from other players utilizing tera stellar you may have seen or battled:
(note that the credited names are from the teams i pulled the set from/ the first player i saw using the set if i remember them)

by xavgb (Gholdengo) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Psyshock

by MRH1106 (Hatterene) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 1 Spe
- Trick Room
- Expanding Force
- Draining Kiss
- Mystical Fire

by Haxrme&pkel (Enamorus) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Tera Blast
- Healing Wish

by Disorient??? (Zamazenta) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Heavy Slam
(my memory is very foggy about this one^)

by blooclipse (Kyurem) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Scale Shot

Walking Wake @ Mystic Water
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Flip Turn

Overqwil @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Crunch
- Liquidation
- Swords Dance

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Tera Blast
- Glare
- Dragon Pulse

Barraskewda @ Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Flip Turn
- Poison Jab
- Close Combat

2. Notes and a vague critrea for using tera stellar:

2.1: Do NOT use stellar on pokemon that are:
- passive walls ; as these would much rather use a defensive tera
- mostly reliant on a single type of attacks ; as these would much rather tera to that type

2.2: I have found tera stellar to be very nice on pokemon that simply like the middle ground between two different teras more than commitment;

Ceruledge @ Life Orb
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Bitter Blade / Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Poltergeist

252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Ceruledge Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 333-393 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Ceruledge Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 221-260 (43.8 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (24-10 chip required for the 2hko)

This set, inspired by greninja's, also utilizes a combination i have really liked with stellar which is stellar + lorb aoa and stellar + lorb 3a; both utilize tera stellar's benefit for maximum coverage while getting an instantous band boost (1.56x) on coverage and a stab tera boost + almost band on stabs (2.4x).

Note that this is not without a drawback as this lacks tera fighting's defensive utility and tera ghost's excellence at cleaning offense with shadow sneak

Glimmora @ Power Herb
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Earth Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Sludge Wave / Energy Ball / Stealth rock / Mortal Spin / Spikes

+1 252 SpA Tera Stellar Glimmora Meteor Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 348-410 (98.8 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

This set also demonstrates another way of utilizing tera stellar while minimizing the single use problem by simply using it to boost a single use attack while getting the benefit on the rest of your attacks.

3. More sets by me from my cold storage for more examples:

Iron Moth @ Power Herb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball
- Meteor Beam

Great Tusk @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Head Smash
- Rapid Spin

For sun (Great Tusk) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Temper Flare
- Rapid Spin

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe : 4 Atk/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / ---
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball / Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb / Earthquake

Darkrai @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psycho Boost
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

for gterrain (Gholdengo) @ Life Orb
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Shadow Ball / Psyshock
- Make It Rain / Thunderbolt / Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast

TLDR: Use tera stellar if you see multiple nice calcs and want them all or a single calc for a tera you are not willing to commit for (such as rock for herb glimmora/iron moth) kind of similar to type boosting items vs

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

Sand is honestly so good in this meta rn. Ttar itself brings so much defensive utility, it's probably one to the best knockers in the tier, and sand itself is great- breaks ceruledges sash, Dnites scale, chips mons down alot cancels leftovers. Drill is also great, not even as a sweeper but just as a cleaner or a revenge killer (mostly nothing outspeeds drill in sand)
Sand obviously also helps versus sun, and versus more defensive team, making most mons take chip damage no matter what.
I'm really happy to see sand prevail again it's so fun to play

 

[Moyashi]

I actually disagree that sand is anything more than niche. Ttar is incredibly easy to wear down and because of its bad speed, easy to take advantage of its bad turns. It does check some stuff but it’s got such glaring defensive issues that force specific structure be built around it to support said issues, and Exca struggles to break the common defensive fliers from Zapdos to Moltres to Corv, and also hates the presence of Lu as well as Tusk and its frailty limits its ability to be relied on defensively more than a couple times.

Sand chip is nice for some match ups, but I don’t think this makes it more than niche. And it isn’t a super splashable play style.

I’m not calling it bad ftr, but I think the initial hype has worn off and it’s settled into a fine, just niche place in the tier.

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

I actually disagree that sand is anything more than niche. Ttar is incredibly easy to wear down and because of its bad speed, easy to take advantage of its bad turns. It does check some stuff but it’s got such glaring defensive issues gay force specific structure be built around it to support said issues, and Exca struggles to break the common defensive fliers from Zapdos to Moltres to Corv, and also hates the presence of Lu as well as Tusk and its frailty limits its ability to be relied on defensively more than a couple times.

Sand chip is nice for some match ups, but I don’t think this makes it more than niche. And it isn’t a super splashable play style.

I’m not calling it bad ftr, but I think the initial hype has worn off and it’s settled into a fine, just niche place in the tier.

I mean yea. Tar/Drill need dedicated teams to ever be worth using, but when they are used, it's honestly a pretty reliable and powerful team structure into most of the tier. You can't really go wrong with consistent chip and good speed control. Ttar is kinda easy to wear down but imo it definitely wears opps down more between the forced switches, knock off, and excellent coverage.
Also
"Gay force" (probably a misspell I find this funny af tho )

 

[Moyashi]

I mean yea. Tar/Drill need dedicated teams to ever be worth using, but when they are used, it's honestly a pretty reliable and powerful team structure into most of the tier. You can't really go wrong with consistent chip and good speed control. Ttar is kinda easy to wear down but imo it definitely wears opps down more between the forced switches, knock off, and excellent coverage.
Also
"Gay force" (probably a misspell I find this funny af tho )

I’ve never really found this to be true tbh. Ttar is very prediction reliant if it wants to get a lot done and teams generally are able to force that prediction game, which if called wrong Ttar just drops momentum. It generally needs to make the most of the switch ins it does get so CB is the set worth running. The teams it’s on are fairly known by this point and are easy to prep for while themselves not feeling super flexible so I just don’t see it being more than niche, or reliable into enough.

My biggest hang up with Ttar/Exca is the horrible Wellspring match up, as well as a weakness to Rillaboom, Tealpon, Walking Wake and Samurott-H. My thought is that SV already has so much to account for that you need to make each team slot count and having to cover for the combined defensive shortcomings of those two is rough and makes them hard to build around flexibly. And imo that doesn’t translate to a play style that’s good into most of the tier, or even a lot. Again, it isn’t bad but just niche. That’s my thoughts.

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

I’ve never really found this to be true tbh. Ttar is very prediction reliant if it wants to get a lot done and teams generally are able to force that prediction game, which if called wrong Ttar just drops momentum. It generally needs to make the most of the switch ins it does get so CB is the set worth running. The teams it’s on are fairly known by this point and are easy to prep for while themselves not feeling super flexible so I just don’t see it being more than niche, or reliable into enough.

My biggest hang up with Ttar/Exca is the horrible Wellspring match up, as well as a weakness to Rillaboom, Tealpon, Walking Wake and Samurott-H. My thought is that SV already has so much to account for that you need to make each team slot count and having to cover for the combined defensive shortcomings of those two is rough and makes them hard to build around flexibly. And imo that doesn’t translate to a play style that’s good into most of the tier, or even a lot. Again, it isn’t bad but just niche. That’s my thoughts.

Yea I agree. Every sand I've made has like one really solid woger check (either zap or torn) and then a secondary semi check. They also share a ground and fighting weakness so, there's that too. But it's still good, that's all I wanted to say, I might be glazing a tad bit but it is is niche. Good but niche.

 

[Bold School]

I kind of like sand better without Drill, tbh. Drill feels mid as heck with all the priority and defensive answers to it. Maybe the right Tera set could change my mind, but it feels like niche, worse Iron Treads to me. There are people who make decent teams with it, but I never loved using it this gen.

That said, TTar seems a lot more versatile on its own merits. It fits on a more teams that don't need to worry about forcing their structure to accomodate Drill. I really like a lot of the sand balance teams that I have seen with Garg. Rekka's Backend recently made a Munkidori team with Tyranitar that seems pretty fun. No Drill. I like that idea of sand teams stacking multiple forms of chip damage rather than putting all the eggs in the sand sweeper basket.

 

[mcribs]

hey again. was looking to secretly practice a but i got sick of so i built a less mid team. wanna shoutout some fun goobers.


Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 16 SpA / 36 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb

smth smth i've been rotted. It's still a really strong trader and utility mon with wisp and water absorb. It really eases certain match ups like vs and and can really mess with . I really like the bulk here since it lets you tank some really nasty stuff to set up a wisp or just click buttons. instead of tera bug which i usually like tera flying is neat here since really makes the mu less of a slog. this guy is stupid bulky btw and still strong even with just some investment.

252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Volcanion: 306-362 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Volcanion: 306-360 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Volcanion: 284-336 (78.2 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Volcanion: 306-361 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Volcanion: 306-360 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Volcanion: 301-355 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
204 SpA Tera Ground Kyurem Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 36 SpD Volcanion: 300-354 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sinistcha @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Steel / Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Matcha Gotcha
- Shadow Ball
- Strength Sap

Usually i dog on cuz its kinda balls at checking wellspring and with tb fly dnite everywhere its kinda buns there too, but i missed so i made a neat side grade. It checks idbp zama and bu tusk pretty well here and it stays alive for a long time. NP is smth i like over cm with just pure firepower against wellspring and zama. Helmet is a neat item particularly against stuff like tusk zama and even gambit occasionally. lets me chip them and lower their atk. tera steel is just something i figured would be neat against but tera poison is def better. super fun hstack mon

Enamorus (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Mystical Fire
- Healing Wish

specs is secretly slept on. You see a lot of teams ppl spam just can't take moonblasts that well. Theres a lot of teams that have 1 or no fairy resist and just rely on av or some bulky ish mon to not get immediately pile drived. they usually only take in account scarf . Specs meanwhile throws that idea out the window and makes the opp have to entirely outoffense, which makes my plays a little easier. Non teams just cannot handle tera fairy bludgening them and even glowking doesnt like ep. You can be really cheeky and moonblast while they chilly out, so you get free glowking chip if its the only thing that can handle enam. Modest is here just bc im greedy and it shreds neutral targets. I could do some weird tb fly one which actually does sound fun but i was lazy.

Heres the team i used these guys on to get top 50 and some funny replays
https://pokepast.es/d657752b570ada87
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2525801529-x0t1amfs4buc8fdb1bjb7p976hwduocpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2525805413-n5mclcbhah0mi823390kodsj9ekqw9dpw

 

[658Greninja]

My biggest hang up with Ttar/Exca is the horrible Wellspring match up, as well as a weakness to Rillaboom, Tealpon, Walking Wake and Samurott-H. My thought is that SV already has so much to account for that you need to make each team slot count and having to cover for the combined defensive shortcomings of those two is rough and makes them hard to build around flexibly. And imo that doesn’t translate to a play style that’s good into most of the tier, or even a lot. Again, it isn’t bad but just niche. That’s my thoughts.

Dealing with these threats isn’t the end of the world. What makes Sand flexible compared to Sun and Rain is you don’t need to follow a strict formula. It could just be a basic Balance structure but with Exca + Ttar.


Hydrapple covers most of these MUs and they get worn down.


Gking and AV Mola are great Sun responses, plus they cover other annoying matchups vs Focus Miss Rai and Gholdy.


Zapdos is another great choice that can punish Tealpon/Samu/Rilla and synergizes perfectly with the Ttar/Exca core.


SpD Corv covers not just Rilla/Tealpon but also Subtect Kyu which presents a huge risk for Sand if Kyurem terastilizes. (That set is overrated asf but that’s a discussion for another day)

Excadrill’s consistency at spinning is also great for fending off spike stacking bos/hos and the additional speed control is great for rkilling Val, Bolt, NP Deo, +1 Dnite, Darkrai, +1 Kyu, etc under Sand.

Good mus into offensive team structures and cheese with the speed control and constant chip damage, 90% winrate vs Stall but Stall is also ass in this day and age so it doesn’t matter.


Teambuilding in any tier (not just SV) is giving up the mentality of trying to cover everything. For bad matchups, you need to ask yourself, how does this threat come in and can I manage this MU? Focus on the important threats to address first (Zama, Wogre, Gambit, Tusk, Ghold, Darkrai, Kyu, Fairies, Pech, Ceru, etc) then figure out your gameplan with the rest. You’re not gonna be losing sleep if your team has no Rockpon switch-in.

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

I kind of like sand better without Drill, tbh. Drill feels mid as heck with all the priority and defensive answers to it. Maybe the right Tera set could change my mind, but it feels like niche, worse Iron Treads to me. There are people who make decent teams with it, but I never loved using it this gen.

I wouldn't call drill mid. It's definitely not as good as previous gens but it's still solid at what it's supposed to do. 135 base attack, with the ability to run Adamant, and still outspeeding nearly all mons understand sand is great.
Its also a super reliable spinner unless they have sinischa. Sub drill can somewhat beat sinischa by not allowing the strength sap, but this is kind of irrelevant imo.
It's also somewhat flexible as tera drill is also very worth it, with sets like tera blast definitely being super worth investing into

That said, TTar seems a lot more versatile on its own merits. It fits on a more teams that don't need to worry about forcing their structure to accomodate Drill. I really like a lot of the sand balance teams that I have seen with Garg. Rekka's Backend recently made a Munkidori team with Tyranitar that seems pretty fun. No Drill. I like that idea of sand teams stacking multiple forms of chip damage rather than putting all the eggs in the sand sweeper basket.

Sand teams without drill are definitely still a thing, yea, I'll agree with this part. Imo it does miss out on alot dropping the guy

 

[Magcargo]

Been loving Psychic Landorus-T. This has been a thing for a while, but I just wanted to give it a shoutout again since it feels like it isn't talked about or used much.

Psychic is a really nice move for chunking both Great Tusk and Zamazenta for decent damage in one slot while dealing.... passable damage to mons immune to Earth Power. From my experience, the combination of Earth Power and Psychic is a guarenteed KO against the enemy tusk, which is great since I see a lot of players use that mon to pressure Lando-T (usually with Ice Spinner). Against opposing Lando-T, you can chip them down pretty decently with Rocks + Psychic damage. And of course, breaking the occasional Ghold Balloon is always nice without having to cede pressure by switching out. The combination of no contact, hitting Zamazenta for higher damage, and broader neutral coverage is why I prefer Psychic to Grass Knot.

Main issue is just finding the move slot for it. I feel that Earth Power and Rocks are pretty mandatory, and Taunt IMO is one of Lando-T's best moves. I ended up having to drop U-Turn. Ironically..... I feel that losing that move doesn't wind up being that bad in practice, though you do notice missing out on it in instances where you are up against a Raging Bolt or something. I think maybe we could experiment more with a couple of other attacks in Landorus-T's arsenal like Scorching Sands or Sludge Bomb.

 

[ElPachirisuDelVGC]

I have a question about the meta, why were people using boots with Knock Off and Flip Turn and which teams used it? I don't remember seeing that mon outside of sun and, althought i do understand why people would use this on a surface level, i also don't understand why you would use a set like that when you can use another offensive pivots that have more utility options.

and have better utility options like Spikes, Encore and Synthesis alongside with the same Knock Off and unblockable pivoting in the form of U-Turn, or that has hazard and screens control in the form of Court Change, and priority STAB Sucker Punch thanks to Libero. Also that is unpredictable and it has the amazing combo of status + Hex

 

[moore's law]

I have a question about the meta, why were people using boots with Knock Off and Flip Turn and which teams used it? I don't remember seeing that mon outside of sun and, althought i do understand why people would use this on a surface level, i also don't understand why you would use a set like that when you can use another offensive pivots that have more utility options.

and have better utility options like Spikes, Encore and Synthesis alongside with the same Knock Off and unblockable pivoting in the form of U-Turn, or that has hazard and screens control in the form of Court Change, and priority STAB Sucker Punch thanks to Libero. Also that is unpredictable and it has the amazing combo of status + Hex

It's very strong and has great bulk (when taking its typing into account) + offers a mix of their characteristics - fairly fast dragon like pult, knock off and pivoting like oger. It gets STAB on flip turn as well, which means that it does decent chip despite no investment and -attack nature.

Wellspring also doesn't want to switch in directly to block the flip turn because if the wake goes for knock into draco, it is favored to kill after rocks (and boots wake is always paired with rocks/spikes.)

It is lot more immediately offensively threatening than dragapult in the early/mid game, while boots pult works better as a midgame breaker/late game cleaner after stuff has been chipped down and its speed tier lets it do its magic. Scald is one of the most broken moves ever, and wake is (I think) the second strongest scald user (after volcanion, who always uses steam eruption anyway) this gen.

It's definitely a more niche pick than any of these guys though and is not as splashable. It has a much worse speed tier and is basically without an ability unless you're facing sun, in which case its water moves are weak (no one runs hydro steam boots wake afaik outside sun.)

 

[ElPachirisuDelVGC]

It's very strong and has great bulk (when taking its typing into account) + offers a mix of their characteristics - fairly fast dragon like pult, knock off and pivoting like oger. It gets STAB on flip turn as well, which means that it does decent chip despite no investment and -attack nature.

Wellspring also doesn't want to switch in directly to block the flip turn because if the wake goes for knock into draco, it is favored to kill after rocks (and boots wake is always paired with rocks/spikes.)

It is lot more immediately offensively threatening than dragapult in the early/mid game, while boots pult works better as a midgame breaker/late game cleaner after stuff has been chipped down and its speed tier lets it do its magic. Scald is one of the most broken moves ever, and wake is (I think) the second strongest scald user (after volcanion, who always uses steam eruption anyway) this gen.

It's definitely a more niche pick than any of these guys though and is not as splashable. It has a much worse speed tier and is basically without an ability unless you're facing sun, in which case its water moves are weak (no one runs hydro steam boots wake afaik outside sun.)

Thanks! I didn't considered that point