CAP 37 - Part 3 - Typing Discussion

[a fairy]

Hello there! Thank you all for some wonderful conversations, both here and in Discord. Reading all of it (I probably missed some Discord stuff but for the most part) has been enlightening, both towards CAP37's position in the metagame once we are done, but also specifically with regards to its typing stage. While I'm not ready quite yet to move forward to people formally putting up type ideas, I do think we are getting close. I have a few more questions I would love folks to chew on and answer. I think the prior questions have been great and there's been great discussion, but I think we're reaching a point where folks' perspectives have been shared, and while people understandably don't agree on plenty of things, this is a matter of differing views on what CAP37 could and should be, as well as what accomplishing this concept actually means. This is great, and given the nature and details of the disagreement, shows we have a wonderful opportunity and process on our hands. So let's get into that! Also, just as a heads up to folks since some chatters in Discord seemed caught off guard by this - Beak Blast's burn does not immediately start reducing damage on what activated the burn. With all that said...

• We all agree that burning an opponent who touches CAP37 during the Beak Blast turn is pro-concept. However, is that the only thing that is pro-concept? Which of the following, if any, are pro-concept? Why or why not?
  • Forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of Beak Blast damage
  • Forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of Beak Blast burn
  • Forcing an opponent to use a non-contact move, damaging or status, to avoid Beak Blast burn
  • Forcing Tera Fire or Protective Pads to avoid Beak Blast burn
  • Some other thing entirely
• What contact moves are we trying to encourage be clicked into CAP37? If we want to burn Pokemon, we've got to get hit by contact moves. What moves are those?
• What does Tera mean for CAP37, if anything? I don't mean the opposing Tera Fire stuff in the first question, but rather CAP37 itself using Tera. Should it interact with Tera in any unique way, defensively or offensively, based on the typing it ends up having?

 

[AzothBend]

We all agree that burning an opponent who touches CAP37 during the Beak Blast turn is pro-concept. However, is that the only thing that is pro-concept? Which of the following, if any, are pro-concept? Why or why not?

All the listed scenarios are pro-concept. The first three, forcing switches or different moves, are especially pro-concept. CAP37 probably won't be getting a lot of burns off Beak Blast, but the threat will absolutely be enough to push the opponent onto the back foot.

What contact moves are we trying to encourage be clicked into CAP37? If we want to burn Pokemon, we've got to get hit by contact moves. What moves are those?

Most contact attackers are not willing to stay in on CAP37 unless absolutely forced. With that in mind, the likeliest candidates are physical attackers immune to burn and special attackers with contact utility. That leaves us with moves like Knock Off from Glisc, Body Press from Garg, E-Speed from Hemo, or Rapid Spin from Libra. Of these, only the latter is actually getting burned for the trouble.
Assuming the opponent has no better options, we're likely looking at other standard contact moves: U-turn, CC, etc. But these are not something CAP37 should expect to be common in the early game.

What does Tera mean for CAP37, if anything? I don't mean the opposing Tera Fire stuff in the first question, but rather CAP37 itself using Tera. Should it interact with Tera in any unique way, defensively or offensively, based on the typing it ends up having?

Tera is probably off the table. Offensive Flying really only exists for Acrobatics sweepers, which I don't think is on anyone's radar here. Flying does have some merit as a defensive typing, but the types it best compliments (Steel, Rock, or Electric) are all checked by the same Gliscor, Libra, etc cadre that will shrug off Beak Blast regardless.

Dark was brought up as a possible candidate, drawing in Bug and Fighting moves. The same logic as Non-STAB still applies. If the opponent is staring down CAP37 with a SE contact move but they have an even reasonable suspicion that Beak Blast is incoming, they're better off switching to one of the aforementioned defensive checks. This is especially true with Tera. They've now drawn out the single Tera for the match for a move they were already incentivized to make.

 

[Blizihguh]

Which of the following, if any, are pro-concept? Why or why not?

IMO the only thing that shouldn't be considered "on concept" is the first one. Forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of damage is just... what every attack move does. That has nothing to do with the conditional effect. Now to be clear, the damage is an important part of the effect -- we're not clicking Will-o-Wisp. But the idea should be that we force the opponent to respect us (by doing one of the other things in af's list), or else they get burnt. If the opponent chooses not to activate Beak Blast's condition, we still gain value by dealing respectable damage with Beak Blast while they're forced to make a suboptimal play. On the other hand, if they choose to attack into it, they get burnt. We're leveraging the condition to our advantage, because if we play right, both outcomes are good for us. If Beak Blast does a ton of damage on its own, we're just beating them down, and the two outcomes of the condition start to become basically the same outcome.

What does Tera mean for CAP37, if anything? I don't mean the opposing Tera Fire stuff in the first question, but rather CAP37 itself using Tera. Should it interact with Tera in any unique way, defensively or offensively, based on the typing it ends up having?

I hadn't considered this, which honestly feels a little embarassing in retrospect. Spot the oldgens player ig. I actually think Tera is another great reason to not make CAP37 be a flying type: if it needs the STAB, it can dedicate its tera slot to that. But I'm very skeptical that we are ever going to build a mon where base form stab + tera flying does not turn Beak Blast into a nuke. Please remember that Beak Blast has the same base power as Earthquake. It is a strong move in its own right!

I know that Beak Blast is negative priority, btw. But we kind of need to assume that we're gonna have the bulk to reliably take hits. We need to, otherwise the conditional effect is literally meaningless lol. So we shouldn't be thinking of Beak Blast as something we only click when we predict a switch. It's going to be something we can spam, at least to some extent.

I have no strong opinions on what contact moves we should bait, btw; stuff from mons that are weak to Flying is the obvious choice, but really any common contact moves will do.

 

[chartung17]

• What contact moves are we trying to encourage be clicked into CAP37? If we want to burn Pokemon, we've got to get hit by contact moves. What moves are those?

We don't necessarily need to target specific moves. For example, if we have Swords Dance, the opponent might have to choose between risking a burn and risking giving us a free turn to setup, regardless of which particular contact moves they have. As others have noted, most commonly used physical attacks make contact, except for Earthquake, which we're immune to if we're Flying-type.

 

[Amamama]

OTOH, if we imagine a CAP37 that's weak to fighting and bug, running Beak Blast as coverage makes a ton of sense. Most mons don't run flying coverage because most mons don't have it, the flying moves that are distributed are generally not that great, and most mons also don't need more help hitting grass or bug types. The conditions that make a mon want to run a coverage move aren't some lost secret; it is extremely easy to figure out which coverage moves a mon would want.

This only works assuming Chansey/Ting Lu/Toxapex levels of bulk. A Mon weak to zamas close combat isn’t going to stay in for a burn bc it is very likely gonna be blown up. Unless it’s a last ditch effort to thwart a sweep, that trade is very rarely worth it. On most mons beak blast would become a move clicked on the switch to catch a Mon that resists you’re (implied dark) STAB rather than a move worth a trade.
And I think this Mon needs to be able to evenly trade into your opponent’s physical attackers.

I agree that being resistant to a lot of common contact moves is probably leading to your opponent focusing on trying to wear 37 down by attacking with special attackers or wear it down in other ways.

There’s however also a 3d option
Being neutral to these kinda moves, while emphasizing special bulk or working with a typing that’s awkward to target with special attackers.
This creates a more balanced trade. One that your opponent might be willing or forced to take and that you aren’t immediately losing.

 

[i am a dirt]

Hey guys! Here are my opinions on the matter:

First Question
Imo, all of these given scenarios are pro-concept. Causing switches and move changes is based on the concept of "you knock off, you get burnt" condition. But, I also think that the first move is not as pro-concept, because (get ready for more data from OU Toucannon) when I used Toucannon against a Trevenant (who uses Trevenant in OU?), the Trevenant switched out due to fear of having to take a Brave Bird. From earlier in the battle, I knew this set was Leech Seed stall, so it didn't fear getting burned by Beak Blast due to its lack of contact and passivity, and the outcome would've been the same if my Toucannon had had something like Brave Bird. And what does this lead up to? If CAP 37 has an offensive slant and wanted to force a switch, it would click a more offensive move in favor of Beak Blast. Also, I don't think CAP 37 alone is going to be influential enough for Protective Pads and Tera Fire to start cropping up. On hard checks, maybe, but idk.

Second Question
Any random schmuck that has played OU against any serious player knows that using Knock Off to remove items is extremely popular, and my "erm actually nerd testing" says that these were the most often clicked into Toucannon:

Knock Off (one heck of a lot, I burned a lotta guys with this)
Rapid Spin
Fighting-type moves (rip Zama)

But then again, CAP 37's not going to be Normal/Flying because Toucannon, but better is just going to be lazy. I say that we could use CAP 37 to counter those three move archetypes, especially Knock Off. Our main goal with Beak Blast should be to bait out contact moves by making them look like they could deal good damage, like making CAP 37 weak to these moves but giving it good Physical Defense, or giving it mediocre Defense and incredible Special Defense so special attackers don't try to wear it down. Libra's amazing matchup into Ghost-type spinblockers warrants a spinblocker that could scare it out, and CAP 37's Beak Blast could do that well if given a typing that resists Steel and Ground. This would make me think about giving Flying to CAP 37 as a defensive type and not for STAB, but then it risks overlap with the bulky Flyings that normally counter Libra. However, Flying-type would scare out Zama instead of using it to bait out a burn, like Beak Blast is supposed to. When most everything carries Knock Off, baiting it out is really not that hard, but could be made even easier by giving CAP 37 the Psychic-type, but specifically not Ghost because then it couldn't bait out Rapid Spin and Fighting moves.

Third Question
I don't have much to say on this, but CAP 37 using its typing to bait out the three moves and then Terastallizing into a resist to take negligible damage while inflicting a burn and dealing solid damage is exactly how we could use Beak Blast to its full potential.
Have a good day.

 

[Explosion Badger]

We all agree that burning an opponent who touches CAP37 during the Beak Blast turn is pro-concept. However, is that the only thing that is pro-concept? Which of the following, if any, are pro-concept? Why or why not?

• Forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of Beak Blast damage
• Forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of Beak Blast burn
• Forcing an opponent to use a non-contact move, damaging or status, to avoid Beak Blast burn
• Forcing Tera Fire or Protective Pads to avoid Beak Blast burn

Of all of these, forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of Beak Blast damage is the only one that doesn't fit the concept. Forcing a switch via damage is something every powerful damaging move should be able to do, and if we were to focus on that, we'd be much better off using a move like Brave Bird for that purpose instead.

That aside, everything else on this list is pro-concept to me. The goal of Beak Blast is to make the opponent play in a way that they don't want to, and forcing the opponent to either waste a resource to work around it or making them play in a way that can be predicted means the move is playing a vital role in the moveset.

What contact moves are we trying to encourage be clicked into CAP37? If we want to burn Pokemon, we've got to get hit by contact moves. What moves are those?

I feel like this question is a little backwards. In essence, the answer to this is "everything we can possibly encourage" because we want to spread burns as much as possible. A more useful question, at least in my mind, is "What moves are the easiest to encourage?", as it allows us to view which moves are the easiest to encourage, vs which aren't. And simply put, the moves that are easiest to encourage are moves that respond to actions the player has control over.

For Example, lets look at Knock Off. It's very easy to encourage the opponent to use Knock Off, as every player worth their salt is going to give their Pokémon items to hold. Similarly, Rapid Spin can be encouraged by setting up hazards that the opponent has to clear in order to let certain Pokémon hit the battlefield. Along with these, one encourageable move archetype that Beak Blast can uniquely take advantage of is Priority Moves. Because most are physical, and because Beak Blast's charge up activates before all priority, a low health 37 can potentially encourage priority attacks into it, only to burn the attacker in exchange.

 

[Blizihguh]

This only works assuming Chansey/Ting Lu/Toxapex levels of bulk. A Mon weak to zamas close combat isn’t going to stay in for a burn bc it is very likely gonna be blown up. Unless it’s a last ditch effort to thwart a sweep, that trade is very rarely worth it. On most mons beak blast would become a move clicked on the switch to catch a Mon that resists you’re (implied dark) STAB rather than a move worth a trade.

Agreed with everything you said except this. As an example, here's a 90/90 Normal type (compare to 155/125 for Ting Lu):
252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP/252+ Def CAP: 270-318 (75-88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers

Now, obviously 75-88% is a lot of damage, but consider:
a) We deal back good damage, burn, and presumably have access to some kind of follow-up option (heal, pivot, priority, etc)
b) Not every contact move is as strong as Zamazenta's Close Combat
c) These are completely arbitrary numbers that will probably look nothing like CAP37's actual stats
d) Even in this contrived scenario, the burned Zama only barely kills with the follow-up CC after Lefties

Now, do I think we're going to create a CAP that's this frail? Probably not lol; our goal is for CAP37 to get hit while clicking a -3 priority move. But my point is just that even with totally unremarkable stats, we can still make it look more like a trade! And that's what we want! If the interaction is too good for either party, then it just won't happen. In fact, if we did end up with Ting Lu stats, I don't see why the Zama would ever click Close Combat on us. There's a wide range of stat spreads that make the trade better or worse for us, with that calc on one end and Ting Lu on the other.

 

[grovylestand!]

Hello! I am a first-time poster and long time lurker. I believe that all of those wastes of energy, or at least burns of energy from the opponent's side are pro-concept. In my opinion, I am concerned by those however, due to them being direct stops to the concept move of CAP37. Burn has interesting implications, I would like a special tank so that CAP37 can sort of tank both ways whilw doing chip damage. The top moves we want to be clicked imo are Mismaw eq, hemogoblins espeed and fblitz, along wirh obviously classic moves like Body Press on zama, Rapid Spin particuarly on Libra, and Knock Off. Thank you for reading my short little post. Bye CAP!

 

[FaelisongTalim]

Lightning Round rambles, not thoroughly structured responses,

• We all agree that burning an opponent who touches CAP37 during the Beak Blast turn is pro-concept. However, is that the only thing that is pro-concept? Which of the following, if any, are pro-concept? Why or why not?
  • Forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of Beak Blast damage

I think this is not directly pro-concept -- Pokemon switch out all the time to minimize damage. However, as a Flying-type move, it is impossible to ever negate the damage, and with the right abilities, it is possible to make the amount of damage that Beak Blast does conditional. Especially in the context that the damage would be STAB-boosted, I believe it would be worthy to place some consideration during the Ability process.

• • Forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of Beak Blast burn

Pro-concept, for certain. A common argument is that Beak Blast has to secure as many burns as possible -- I think this is faulty to imagine, the threat of a burn on a critical physical attacker such as Great Tusk or Hisuian Samurott is incredibly valuable and any opposing player will have to respect this, and generating free turns to force them to switch and deny meaningful progress through moves such as Rapid Spin, Ceaseless Edge or Knock Off is incredible. This is the value of Defensive Offensive, where making Defensive plays trying to burn a Pokemon through a move such a Will-o-Wisp is usually negated by switching into a Fire-type or a Special Attacker. However in the case of Beak Blast, the move threatening damage still provides value to punishing a switch-in.

• • Forcing an opponent to use a non-contact move, damaging or status, to avoid Beak Blast burn

Ironically, moves such as Will-o-Wisp will be very limiting on Beak Blast's power, which may demand compensation in Ability or Stat discussion stages. Notably, a lot of utility moves such as Rapid Spin, Knock Off and U-Turn are all contact moves, and punishing those moves have been as important and valued ever since Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs and the Rocky Helmet item were introduced in Generation 5. CAP 37 should be expected to respect the threats the opposing Pokemon offers -- there is no universe where CAP 37 should be staying in on Pokemon such as Raging Bolt or Darkrai unless the Ability or Typing is catered to it. This said, forcing the opponent to switch into a Special Attacker or force them to use a Status move can be capitalized upon.

• • Forcing Tera Fire or Protective Pads to avoid Beak Blast burn

Tera Fire Revenankh is common, and even aside is a common enough Tera type on many other physical attackers to dodge burn. I believe this can be taken advantage of with the right Typing or team composition. Protective Pads means you cannot run Boots or Covert Cloak which are items that are very critical to Gen 9 CAP with the threat of Inferno, Salt Cure, Hazard Removal Denial, etc. I believe it is pro-concept to shift the metagame in this direction, having a Beak Blast pokemon be threatening enough to encourage these changes.

• What contact moves are we trying to encourage be clicked into CAP37? If we want to burn Pokemon, we've got to get hit by contact moves. What moves are those?

I think common utility moves such as Knock Off, U-Turn and Rapid Spin are always going to be clickable even into a typing that resists the Pokemon since they generate value into their use innately. Outside of that, it is important to consider that moves such as Ivy Cudgel, Earthquake and Poltergeist do not make Contact, so ideally we should encourage CAP 37 to be hit on the other STAB moves that said Pokemon can utilize, such as Ogerpon's Power Whip/Wood Hammer or Great Tusk's Ice Spinner.

• What does Tera mean for CAP37, if anything? I don't mean the opposing Tera Fire stuff in the first question, but rather CAP37 itself using Tera. Should it interact with Tera in any unique way, defensively or offensively, based on the typing it ends up having?

This is tricky. Based on vibes and vibes alone, I see Terastallization as a way for CAP 37 to improve its MU lategame after key threats have been eliminated, and I don't see Tera Flying being a common option. Terastallization can be used as a way to stop a Physical Set-up Sweeper in its tracks, primarily to survive to either burn or deal essential damage for priority to finish off the target. I do not believe we should aim for any specific Tera type during the Ability or Typing phase, I think the Tera type should come from natural exploration after the Pokemon is created and usable on Showdown. I ultimately forsee a defensive Tera type being a natural option as I cannot imagine 37 outspeeding relevant targets especially with the -3 priority of Beak Blast being considered.

 

[Apagogie]

• We all agree that burning an opponent who touches CAP37 during the Beak Blast turn is pro-concept. However, is that the only thing that is pro-concept? Which of the following, if any, are pro-concept? Why or why not?
  • Forcing an opponent to switch out due to fear of Beak Blast damage

I think this is a very good question, but I would like to twist it a bit because I believe we are not using Beak Blast to its full potential. What if, instead, we asked:

• Forcing an opponent to stay-in due to fear of Beak Blast damage

This is definitely a pro-concept and is basically the same question as above but it switches the narrative and it highlights something new.
If the opponent can always safely switch to avoid the burn, it is the best play, they will do it and the condition will never activate. The opponent will only risk the burn if they do not have better plays, so if one of these conditions is true:

• No-contact attackers are uncomfortable beating the CAP due to its special bulk or defensive typing (as highlighted by Amamama)
• No-contact attackers cannot freely switch in due to the power of one of its coverage moves (as highlighted by Blizihguh).
• No-contact attackers are uncomfortable freely switch in due to the power of Beak Blast.

Then, the opponent might think it is worth chipping the CAP even if it means taking the burn, instead of making the safe play by sending in Slowking-Galar. I want to stress that making Beak Blast uncomfortable to switch only asks for the stab and a decent attacking stat. It is easy to design without being overpowered.

(no stab) 0 Atk Mew Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Slowking-Galar: 86-102 (21.8 - 25.8%) -- 2% chance to 4HKO
(no stab) 252 Atk Mew Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Slowking-Galar: 108-128 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
(flying) 0 Atk Mew Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Slowking-Galar: 129-153 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
(flying) 252 Atk Mew Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Slowking-Galar: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I also want to emphasize any pokemon with average bulk can take non–super-effective, non-STAB Earthquake especially from a Pokémon with very average offensive stats or worse uninvested, and Beak Blast would not be different. In that way, i think it is extremly challenging to design a pokemon oriented defensively without the flying type which would make the use of Beak Blast more interesting than a worse will-o-wisp. I do not think this road should be pursued. I think that any design with one of its three options written above will lead to a successful product and if flying types suggestions should be favored, there is no reason to disregard no-stab beak blast typings as long as it is coherent with the objective of "not inviting every non-contact attackers".

If we are worried about Beak Blast being extremely spammable, which I personally do not think is a big issue, but I understand the argument, do not forget the negative priority. It is completely possible to design a CAP in such a way that clicking Beak Blast can, at times, be the wrong move in order to avoid getting chipped. If you can KO a Pokémon with a coverage move but instead choose to click Beak Blast, you might get chipped enough (or worse just been killed) that you no longer represent a threat to the opposing team.

 

[a fairy]

Here we go, folks!

I want to thank everyone for fantastic discussion during both series of questions, both as question responses but also as general conversation between users. We've set ourselves up for a fantastic start to this stage, and a fantastic continuation from the Concept stage. Now, it is time to begin discussing and putting forward types we'd like to see CAP37 take, based on the conversations we've had and what we intend for CAP37.

Please do:
- Bold the type or type combination you wish to nominate. I want to know what you want on the slate, and mentioning multiple types as comparison can get tricky.
- Explain why that typing should be on the slate! I don't benefit from single-line nominations without justification, and I won't consider them. Sure, I may be able to guess as to why you're putting up a specific typing, but I'm not going to be slating based off of my guesses. Explain your logic, please.
- Have that explanation go into detail about why the type is pro-concept and how it enables CAP37 to interact with the metagame. "wouldn't it be sick if we got a bug dragon after all this time?" is like, hey I may agree with you, but it does nothing meaningful to explain why it should be CAP37's from a competitive point of view. That said...

Please don't:
- Poll jump. Make no assumptions about what might be coming in a future set. The TLT know as much as you right now about future stages - absolutely nothing. A Flying-type does not mandate Brave Bird in a movepool, an Electric-type does not mandate a higher-than-average Speed stat, and if you can find a pattern between abilities and typing, you're the next author of The Da Vinci Code and also approaching this stage incorrectly. Nothing is even remotely set in stone for future stages, and we have a fantastic TL and TLT who will be able to navigate any ship.
- Badmouth other suggestions. I encourage advice giving, I encourage the exchange of thoughts on each other's submissions, and I intend to provide my own where possible, but this is not a zero-sum game. The existence of another typing with potentially more support or better-written justification is not a threat to your own idea. I really do not want to see badmouthing anywhere, be it in this thread, Discord, the PS! room, anywhere else. I trust y'all to find the line between genuine uplifting criticism (good) and negative talk / baseless detractions (bad).
- Make assumptions. Remember, we just had a stage where we all kinda assumed that someone else was putting Focus Punch in. The only limitation here is technical, obviously we aren't OKing a new type or whatever. So long as you're meeting the Please Do list, no type or type combination is off the table.

 

[quziel]

Dark / Flying

This typing is pretty interesting here due to its interaction with Fighting-types and Ghost-types specifically. Fighting types are suddenly a bit less afraid to click that Close Combat into a neutral target if we're a bit low, or if we're predicted to roost this turn, while Ghost types, already very common U-turn spammers, might be tempted to click U-turn vs us, though admittedly its not a strong temptation. Beyond that its an excellent STAB combination, giving us peak Beak Blast, while having a tremendous selection of utility/damage moves on the Dark side. \

Let's talk about our matchup spread into physical attackers:

Ogerpon-Wellspring can dodge contact vs us using Ivy Cudgel, but at the same time is afraid of Beak Blast's super-effective damage.

Zamazenta really really wants to hit us with a neutral Body Press or Close Combat, but at the same time is afraid of both super-effective damage and the burn. This is a good target for the concept, though realistically the mon will switch out unless it can OHKO us.

Great Tusk similarly only has contact moves to hit us with, and beyond that we can fairly easily come in vs it's Headlong Rush. This lets us directly interact with the hazard game due to our punishment of Rapid Spin, and the same dynamic can play vs Equilibra.

Revenankh has no real choice but to contact us. It's only commonly run non-contact moves are Earthquake and Poltergeist, and neither does good damage into us.

Dragonite similarly has no choice but to contact us. This is a good matchup for the concept.

Kingambit has no choice but to click Iron Head, but at the same time it's quite happy to run Lum Berry, and can just spam SD vs resisted Beak Blasts. This is a questionable matchup, but one we can at least leverage a bit if we Knock it first.

Dragapult / Kitsunoh both don't really want to click resisted Ghost moves vs us, and similarly are forced to hard switch out instead of clicking U-turn by the threat of Beak Blast. These are both common mons and they are excellent places for us to leverage the threat of a burn.

If you look at the VR, one of this typing's strengths is its really not that weak to many special attackers beyond Kyurem and lower-ranked mons. Darkrai and Gholdengo are both common, strong, and both don't really want to deal with us.

 

[kenn]

Water/Flying

Well since quz suggested #1 most talked about in Discord type combo, I'll suggest #2. Water/Flying is fairly straightforward in what it would do which is threaten the Fire-types that may endure a Beak Blast and are immune to being burned via Beak Blast's condition. Not only that, but this combination allows for a pretty solid defensive profile with key resistances to Fire, Fighting, and so on. While it does sport a 4x Electric weakness, I think the true lack of weaknesses (only weak to Rock and Freeze-Dry otherwise lol) couple with a solid profile of resistances allows 37 to thrive at not only spreading burns via Beak Blast, but also apply offensive pressure to the Fire-types immune to the status condition. This typing also essentially forces Ogerpon-Wellspring to hit us with its Grass STAB, due to it being neutral over Ivy Cudgel, and therefore force Wogerpon to make contact and potentially be burned by Beak Blast's condition.

 

[TheShowdownHero]

Steel/Flying
The logic behind this is the fact that steel flying is a really good defensive type,capable of tanking things,and most pokemon physical moves that make contact would most likely not ohko this
This is pro concept because the typing essencially encourages using the stab move to get burns on physical pokemon.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Dragon / Flying

Since the obvious stab typings are out of the way, I figured I would submit something a bit more unorthodox. The main appeal of Dragon/Flying is that it acts as a very aggressive deterrent for Waterpon (Since we resist both of its stabs), and this was originally gonna be the sole basis on this submission, but after thinking about it some more, I think it has a few other benefits as well. While our resistances are fairly similar to Water / Flying, a big thing I think stands out for us is our lack of an Electric-type weakness, which helps make our matchup into Zapdos a bit more even, as well as putting the option of us being able to take on Caribolt on the table. I personally don't think the 4x Ice weakness is a very big deal, as Ice-types are gonna be a huge threat to us regardless of whatever typing we pick (Assuming we want Beak Blast stab) and most of our desired targets for this stage don't really run Ice-type coverage anyways (Great Tusk is the only one that really stands out imo), and we also have Dragon-STAB to allow us to threaten the most prominent Ice-type in the tier (Kyurem) as well. A good example of how this typing performs in action would be Bulky Dragonite, who while isn't quite as good as it is in CAP as it is in OU, definitely still puts in work, and interestingly enough, many of the Pokemon it would want to switch on just so happen to be prime targets for Beak Blast!

 

[viol and bass]

Dark

Everyone here agrees that non-flying types at a minimum need a higher degree of scrutiny, so I apologize for the length but I felt it was necessary given a lack of faith in non-flying builds. I've thought through basically every other non-flying Dark typing and I actually feel that mono-Dark is superior here, which I will explain.

Monotypes are rare in CAP because strictly speaking they tend to be worse than at least some dual-typed combination. You're leaving a whole STAB on the table. On a process basis though, it's actually solving a few problems here. We are worried about whether a non-flying type will run Beak Blast and click it frequently; mono-dark will run it and it will click it. It targets hugely important fighting-types like Argh, Zama, and Tusk, as well as things like Snaelstrom, Wellspring, and Revenankh that are neutral to Dark. It's also very good 2-move coverage, which is important moveslot compression and encourages you to click the move more often. This was one of the biggest things I was looking at when I was comparing it to various dual typings. If you're Dark/Fighting for example, Beak Blast is a third wheel on the set and it's likely not getting clicked that often. Not the case here, so in this respect, being monotype is a big strength.

In terms of resists, we have important Ghost and Dark resists as well as a Psychic immunity. This is what we would have called a "holder of few" typing in Shox's process. Our weaknesses are Bug, Fighting, and Fairy. Bug is always physical contact. Fighting is almost always physical contact, with mostly rare usage of moves like Focus Blast. Fairy is mostly non-contact. It's primarily used specially outside of things like Hemo and tera blast Fairy which aren't exploitable anyway, although it's worth noting that Draining Kiss is one of the more common special Fairy moves and it's actually contact; Beak Blast will burn a Draining Kiss user. But anyway, that's it. Specially, we're mostly just vulnerable to Fairy, outside of mostly Focus Blast off-sets. The most natural answers to this typing are contact moves, which puts opponents in a bind. This is exactly what we should build into for a non-STAB build. It's easy to say "they'll never click the contact move", but we're not that vulnerable to other moves and they have to kill you somehow right?

So compared to Dark/Flying for example, our biggest hurdle is that we're exerting somewhat less offensive pressure due to the lack of STAB, which makes us somewhat easier to switch into. But in exchange, we're much less vulnerable to primarily special typings like Ice and Electric, and we're much better at drawing in physical contact moves like U-turn, Body Press, Close Combat, etc., which plays into the conditional effect better than most other options. Very different approaches, but both valid.

 

[the_strikelasercl4w]

Ground/Fire

I know this one is way out there, but there's some method behind the madness. Of the CAPs we have so far 11 resist Beak Blast ( Cawmadore, Crucibelle, Cyclohm, Equilibra, Kitsunoh, Krillowatt, Naviathan, Plasmanta, Ramnarock, Shox, and Strategem). In that list 9 of them are weak to ground and the other 2 are weak to fire. So by being Ground/Fire it creates a mini game where you try to predict the BB or the other STAB. As an added layer to the puzzle, being 4x weak to water means that 37 will have to consider moves like Surf and Scald while it tries to set its trap

 

[grovylestand!]

Psychic / Flying
I have strongly felt from the moment Beak Blast was chosen that we should have a typically specially defensive type. This combo has decent resistances and has interesting defensive synergy. I also like it as a presumably physical attacker, it is an interesting application for flavor. I am intrigued by the Libra counter as well, it can still spin but cant do much damage to CAP37. Thank you for consideration!

 

[StarFalcon555]

Dark/Water

I suggested this as a joke on the Discord (haha the two most popular types are dark/flying and water/flying, what about dark/water?) and then I actually thought about the typing seriously for about 3 minutes and went "hold on I might actually be cooking with gas here".

The best way I can describe this typing is that it's kinda like a physical version of Gen 8 UU CM Keldeo, which ran Air Slash as its preferred method to hit Grass types instead of Icy Wind because of Air Slash's higher BP. I think the most fun aspect of this typing, though, is the mind games it makes other Pokemon play. Imagine you're a Wogerpon and you're facing off against a Dark/Water CAP37. Do you want to smack CAP37 with a super effective Wood Hammer that will surely knock it out at the cost of being saddled with a burn for the rest of the game if it chooses that turn to charge up a Beak Blast, or do you want to bypass that risk with a resisted Ivy Cudgel? You can also play similar games with Great Tusk due to the weakness to Close Combat, Hemogoblin thanks to the weakness to PIxilate E-Speed and basically every U-Turn bot thanks to the Bug weakness. You can even do this mindgame with physical Enamorous if you really hate that thing that much! It also combines the best traits of the Dark and Water typings that make each of those types individually good combos with the Flying type, with resistances to Dark, Ghost, and Fire and great matchups into mons like Moltres, Dragapult, Ting-Lu, Glowking, Pecharunt, Iron Moth, and Kitsunoh that are high-tier threats in the current metagame. It's just a really underrated type combo all around and I think that if we have to pick a non-Flying type for this CAP, this should be it.

 

[Blizihguh]

I came here to recommend a Dark dual typing, probably Dark/Water. But ngl, viol and bass actually has a really compelling argument for mono Dark here.

One thing that they only briefly alluded to, which I think is important: scaring away special attacks in general is pro-concept for us. This is something that Flying isn't very good at (with weaknesses to Elec and Ice), but Dark fits very nicely. If we are going to pick Dark + another type, I think it makes sense for the other type to dissuade common special attacks

 

[i am a dirt]

Hello again!

Steel/Psychic
I switched between Steel and Psychic tera types on my own Toucannon, for example. This typing is great for baiting out the three moves I mentioned earlier: Rapid Spin, Knock Off, and Fighting-type moves. While most people who use Zama and actually have a brain aren't going to stay in on a Psychic-type, they also have to risk their switch-in getting hit with a Beak Blast. The Psychic-type baits out Knock Off well, well, because Knock Off is super effective.
And then we've got the Libra matchup.
Libra does have super-effective STAB in Earth Power against Steel/Psychic. However, if CAP 37 is given Air Balloon, it can fly. (Whoa.) If Libra switches out, it risks having to take a Beak Blast or a different STAB move. Flash Cannon pops Balloon but won't do anything, and Libra gets burned if it spins. But Dirt, you say, Libra's a special attacker! It doesn't care about burns! One thing, however:
Tera Ghost
Steel/Psychic could Tera Ghost to become a spinblocker, keep its Air Balloon, deal good damage back, and still bait out Knock Offs afterward. I'd say this is pro-concept because the entire purpose of Beak Blast is putting opposing physical attackers and physical spinners like Tusk into a sticky pickle situation, risking getting burned by Beak Blast or letting the switch-in be forced to take a Beak Blast.
Or we could just give it Levitate.
That's the end. Hope this helps!

 

[Rysachi]

Ghost/Flying

Hello, I've gone ahead to edit this post given the feedback from a couple of posts and more recently from a fairy to expand on a few points but also to give clarity on sections of this post to go into further detail on how this type works and has interactions with Beak Blast in particular so thankyou for the feedback to highlight a few key missing points on my original post.

This typing originally hadn't been particularly been talked about much within Discord but it also has a unique circumstance on moves that were suggested and brought up by other members that Beak Blast could interact with in a fairly easy way e.g. Knock Off, Rapid Spin and U-Turn. As brought up by a fairy and I agree with the point fully that U-Turn on this typing will be a complete deterrent rather than have any pro-concept synergy with Beak Blast by having a 4x resist to U-Turn, opposing mons are more likely to just hard switch rather and therefore want to rule out this interaction being a selling point for this typing.

Now onto Rapid Spin, whilst this typing initially doesn't seem to be pro-concept by being a Rapid Spin immunity and therefore bypassing the burn, it still manages to punish opponents trying to remove hazards by preventing the removal of hazards, but also gives this CAP opportunities in being a key part of balanced teams with some form of hazard stacking by being able to keep hazards on the field and also potentially giving this CAP some opportunity to have some pro-concept of using Beak Blast in an alternative way of burn spreading by forcing switch outs and focusing on the raw damage this CAP can be produced if common Rapid Spinners in the meta struggle to be able to deal with this CAP without risking the chance of being burnt from other contact moves, big example of this is Great Tusk that this CAP is immune to both STAB's, Rapid Spin and can risk being burnt by both Knock Off and Ice Spinner as common coverage moves.

The final mentioned move above is the main selling point of this typing in that this typing is weak to one of the more important physical contact moves in Knock Off. This is a big selling point and a huge pro-concept move interaction in the fact that not only do we heavily encourage opposing Pokémon clicking Knock Off into a Knock weak CAP, but also one that potentially will by default consider running Heavy-Duty Boots being a typing that's rock weak, therefore heavily encouraging the trade off of losing it's held item and being Knock weak in exchange of burning the opposition and also reducing the damage output of Knock Off after the first time use due to item loss, which turns an initial negative trade into a positive one for this CAP.

Outside of those 3 big contact moves specifically mentioned previously by the community, I feel this typing would have some other ways of being able to punish common meta relevant Pokémon that rely on contact moves that haven't yet been talked about and that both myself vaguely and a fairy had brought up in specific examples which would be extremely relevant. Examples of this are: as previously talked about; with Crunch and Wild Charge; by being a Circle Throw immunity and Knock Off; or with Knock Off; with Throat Chop variants and could even potentially go as far as to some other initial bad MU's on paper (depending on the stat distribution) against the likes of or .

Whilst we have clear set examples on how Beak Blast would be able to handle some of the major physical threats with contact moves in the meta, this CAP typing will still forgo having some weaknesses (pre-tera) that we would have to consider building around if we were to chose this typing. Some big examples include but not limited to are (Resists both typings with Purifying Salt), (Most meta relevant burn immunity), (One of the most viable Beak Blast resistances currently) ontop of offensive threats that would hit this type combination super effectively without triggering Beak Blast e.g. , , , .


The final selling points for this typing is both the flexibility and the uniqueness we have with this type combination. With the assumption that most ghost types have access to Hex, we have the potential to explore the idea of a mixed variation of this CAP which is able to give itself a primary reason to want to burn spread the opposition as much as possible in the ability of boosting its' own damage potential in Hex which is another "conditional move" we initially ruled out due to being boring but just happens to fit nicely here as being STAB that has synergy with the decided move Beak Blast. The other main reason is that we currently don't have any Pokémon with any type combination that comes close to being viable compared to other typing suggestions. Ghost/Flying is limited to and which both currently lack a place in the meta due to not only typing but also awkward and low stats that are unfavorable to them which we can prevent occurring with this CAP and let us explore and be flexible on if we want this CAP to be a mixed attacker or go all out on the default idea of Beak Blast + Physical Ghost STAB.

 

[aaronarium]

Dark / Flying

This typing is pretty interesting here due to its interaction with Fighting-types and Ghost-types specifically. Fighting types are suddenly a bit less afraid to click that Close Combat into a neutral target if we're a bit low, or if we're predicted to roost this turn, while Ghost types, already very common U-turn spammers, might be tempted to click U-turn vs us, though admittedly its not a strong temptation. Beyond that its an excellent STAB combination, giving us peak Beak Blast, while having a tremendous selection of utility/damage moves on the Dark side. \

I'll expand more later.

Was going to submit this type and you basically read my mind for the reasoning. Another small thing I like about it is how it is Dark-resistant but Rock-weak. I think this optimizes our interaction with Knock Off, since being part-Flying is reason enough to tempt its use (given the ubiquity of HDB on Rock-weak mons), while minimizing its impact in terms of raw damage. This wouldn't work if you put the other two Dark-resistant types in a combo with Flying, since both Fighting/Flying and Fairy/Flying resist Fighting and Bug, and Dark/Flying's neutrality to these two is a major draw like how you describe.

 

[Explosion Badger]

Alright its time to be dumb lol

Rock/Flying

At first glance, this may seem like a waste of a flying typing. Rock is well known for being a less than stellar typing defensively, thanks to a myriad of weaknesses and odd resistances. When combined with flying, and especially when combined with Beak Blast, a lot of Rock's aspects start to shine.

Defensive Traits:
Defensively, Rock/Flying has a lot of unique traits. For one, Flying neutralizes Rock's weakness to fighting and grass(alongside threatening fighting anf grass types that switch in), and makes the type immune to Ground. Why is this important? Considering how useful these types are as coverage, having the ability to deal with both means that many of the unique resistances Rock brings to the table get to shine. Rock/Flying can stuff the Normal, Flying and Fire type coverage that are normally difficult to wall alongside the Ground type. Additionally, the Flying type makes it easier to wall the offensive Pokemon whose type combo is resisted by Rock, but have coverage to get around it, such as Torn-T with Focus Blast and Iron Moth with Energy Ball.

Offensive Traits:
Rock and Flying have some great offensive synergy already, but it becomes even better with Beak Blast in mind. As stated previously, Flying type heavily pressures the Grass and Fighting types that most Rock types are afraid of, while Rock can pressure the Ice types that want to switch in and hit its Flying type. Notably, even if they still hit the typing for neutral, Grass and Fighting are most commonly physical contact types, meaning that strong attackers still have to risk eating a burn when trying to hit the type. Along with this, Rock posseses a useful trait in that it can nail the fire types that would be immune to beak blasts burn, meaning that pokemon like Hemogoblin have to make a choice: either switch out, or risk picking between getting hit super effectively, or Terastalizing and getting burned. Additionally, some of the water types unafraid of BB burn, such as Ogerpon-W and Snaelstrom, are extremely scared of switching in on the move and getting obliterated.

Notable Interactions:
Dragonite: Resistance to Extreme Speed, Fire Punch and Tera Flying, and an Immunity to Earthquake means that Rock/Flying can easily find an entry point on many Dragonite sets, and Beak Blast means that Dnite can't simply click Ice Spinner to remove 37 from its sight.

Great Tusk: With the option to safely earthquake out, GT is forced to respect the chance of burn on every move it can click, whether that be Ice Spinner or Close Combat to remove 37, Knock Off to get rid of its Boots, or Rapid Spin to clear hazards.

Hemogoblin/Tera Fire users: as discussed before, Hemogoblin has to play a scary game of either not clicking Tera and potentially eating a Rock type attack, or Terastalizing and getting burned by Beak Blast. It's not the only pokemon like this however, as any other physical fire type or Tera Fire pokemon essentially risks a similar issue when fighting 37.

Gholdengo/Equilibra: These are Rock/Flying's biggest difficulty matchups, as they care very little about its STABs and can easily hit the typing super effectively without fear of burn. I wanted to point them out because, while it may show a common and strong answer to Rock/Flying, that also means that the typing has its checks/counters and can be played around.