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Announcement UM Team Tour 2 - Format Discussion

Format


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    102
  • Poll closed .
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I`m strongly against UMCL including more than 2 or max. 3 Flexslots, for 2v2 in particular but arguably also NFE and UUbers things would be really skewed heavily to the advantage of few teams, and you essentially need a lot of people who can play a bunch of these metagames that differ a lot, and/or bank on getting known sheet warriors in teamtournaments very early on in the draft for a lot of money.

World Cup has the more beginner friendly environment, but i personally never have been a huge fan of them outside of the OG WCOP one as the balance/competitiveness between teams is arguably even more wack than lower tiers CLs with lots of flex slots. Ultimately wouldn`t be adamantly against it tho if many people think that it would help enough with getting more newer players or known tournament players interested into UMs. Also at least it`s easier to differentiate to UMPL unlike UMCL/UMBD, so that`s a bonus i guess tho not a heavy argument.

Just my 2 cents/quick personal opinions post midnight my time.
 
No strong preference for UMWC or UMCL. Both are okay, but if we want something unique, UMWC is the way to go imo. I don't think raising flex slot count solves anything. TBH I personally dislike the concept of flex slots, I think its just a worse version of the regular tour structure (feel free to disagree on this one as its quite subjective). They don't really distinguish the tour enough from UMPL and theres always things like under/over-representation of metas to worry about. You could argue the issues aren't major but theyre enough to put me off. This tour should 100% include Monocolor though. The meta's very stable and has up to date resources. We've run multiple tours and events too at this point. It would be breath of fresh air for UMTTs which have mostly featured the older 5 (6?) UMs so far. Don't have much experience with 4v4 DUU but sources have told me it's also pretty competitive. I'd like to vouch for these 2 new UMs as tiers (flex or otherwise) for the UMTT. Introducing more UMs to the tour scene would be great for the community, and I think this tour is perfect for that.
 
There is a poll attached to this thread. I will be using the results, along with mods and leaders, to determine the format for UMTT2. This is not a binding poll. If The votes are close, we will determine which we feel is better internally. If we feel like one side has an abnormally high number of voters who do not usually participate in UMs, we will take that into consideration.

The actual format of the tour, such as how many flex slots or the nature of the way the world cup structure will work, will be made primarily by mods, leaders, and potentially hosts pending timing. Like I said in the first post, we're going to make decisions with regards to this tour with the advice of the community, but in the end many of us are on different pages and there is only a little over a week before the 1st when something of this tour must begin.

UMWC: World Cup
UMCL: Champions League (flex slots)
 
I don't expect my thoughts to gain much traction at all, but I'm making this post anyways to get the discourse started because I do think there's real merit to this idea, even if it isn't quite right for now.

The idea I'm talking about is that of the briefly-mentioned oldgens tour (something I'll continue to refer to as an OldGensLeague for brevity's sake, although that certainly isn't at all what we would have to call it).

To preface however, i'd like to share some brief thoughts on the main 2 other proposed formats, as a way of giving context for why I think that an OGL would be a preferrable alternative.

UMCL is not inherently different enough from UMPL, and the bulk of what I've seen as propositions for how to handle it / make it distinct is based around flex slots - something that is already slightly controversial due to their unorthodox nature. And in terms of mini-PLs, we already have UMFL which did a great job of including not only the much newer UMs, but also giving a chance to newer players who haven't made it to the big leagues. If we want a place to shine spotlights on overlooked metas and players, as well as test out new tournament ideas, UMFL is the place to do that, and idt a UMCL is warranted.

UMWC is not nearly as egregious as it might initially seem for reasons that have already been discussed, chiefly by Celeste, but I still think it's slightly less desirable than an OGL. Strategic merging of regions I think will almost certainly be necessary due to how relatively smaller most UMs are compared to officials. While entirely viable when done smartly, I think this dilutes the theme of WCs which prides itself on more concentrated regional unity and shared experiences of players. Furthermore, A UMWC would still just be centered around CG tiers, when I think that CG UMs already have more than enough attention.

So, why OGL?

Having oldgens serves to flesh out and diversify the experiences of a given tier. It's fun to discuss how concepts do or don't apply across generations, and it gives players options if they enjoy the underlying concept of a tier but don't entirely enjoy CG. Furthermore, gen9 saw the addition of a fair few UMs (UUbers, VGC UU, Monocolour); I can't entirely speak for VGC UU and Monocolour as I am less familiar with them but the vast majority of UUbers development has occurred in SV, and oldgens have only been a reletively recent endeavor; gen 10 is just around the corner and there are many suspicions that it'll even be announced a week from now, and it would be a shame if these SV metagames were to slowly lose activity and interest due to having 0 visibility outside of their tier communities and thus not really attracting newcomers. An OGL would provide a place for larger UM community members to have a chance to see the older generations and potentially gain interest.

Potential problems with an OGL:

Certain UMs have a disproportionate amount of viable oldgens. The biggest ones I have in mind is ZU and AG although, maybe others too. The flip side is that the newer UMs would have a disproportionate number of less viable oldgens. While again I can't entirely speak for VGC UU and Monocolour, I find it difficult to imagine that their oldgens scene is particularly fleshed out given the amount of time they've been around. Not even UUbers which has had a headstart on those two has a particularly fleshed out oldgens scene although UUbers has definitely been making good efforts in more recent times. An OGL would "make the rich richer" so to speak by boosting the visibility of UMs that are already riding strong. It would also force communities to choose 2ish oldgens to be played in tour, because it's obviously unviable to run every oldgen of every community - the number of slots would bloom semi-exponentially further than what we already have. This would promote the oldgens that are already most healthy at the cost of the oldgens that need visibility the most, although perhaps those metagames are issues for individual UM subforumPLs to deal with.

Do I think an OGL would be viable for 2026? No. 2027? Maybe? We'll see. My point is however that I think the idea has some real merit over the main options currently being considered for a second CA tour, even if the OGL is nowhere near being fleshed out enough. This may not be the exact place to discuss the logistics of an OGL given how theoretical it currently still is, but if not here then I'm not sure where else. I hope that people give this idea a real consideration as I think that UM oldgens are truly a delight and I hope that they receive more recognition.
 
Didn't get a chance to weigh in before polling, but I am in favor of UMCL, these tours seem to be the wave on the site, and I agree with most of the sentiments with WCs being pretty unbalanced for a CA tour. It can be hard to fill slots for these tours, especially with how small some of the UM player bases are. CL will create a more competitive tour and is a better option for a second CA tour. WCs are fun, but it can definitely be hosted later in the year as a non-CA tour for people to get their fill of it.
 
Certain UMs have a disproportionate amount of viable oldgens. The biggest ones I have in mind is ZU and AG although, maybe others too. The flip side is that the newer UMs would have a disproportionate number of less viable oldgens. While again I can't entirely speak for VGC UU and Monocolour, I find it difficult to imagine that their oldgens scene is particularly fleshed out given the amount of time they've been around. Not even UUbers which has had a headstart on those two has a particularly fleshed out oldgens scene although UUbers has definitely been making good efforts in more recent times. An OGL would "make the rich richer" so to speak by boosting the visibility of UMs that are already riding strong. It would also force communities to choose 2ish oldgens to be played in tour, because it's obviously unviable to run every oldgen of every community - the number of slots would bloom semi-exponentially further than what we already have. This would promote the oldgens that are already most healthy at the cost of the oldgens that need visibility the most, although perhaps those metagames are issues for individual UM subforumPLs to deal with.

Do I think an OGL would be viable for 2026? No. 2027? Maybe? We'll see. My point is however that I think the idea has some real merit over the main options currently being considered for a second CA tour, even if the OGL is nowhere near being fleshed out enough. This may not be the exact place to discuss the logistics of an OGL given how theoretical it currently still is, but if not here then I'm not sure where else. I hope that people give this idea a real consideration as I think that UM oldgens are truly a delight and I hope that they receive more recognition.
i missed this originally but to speak for vgc uu specifically:

because we follow VGC regulations we do have a significant amount of past-regulations that are no longer being actively played that have both the resources & development to fit within a tour like this. they wouldn't be from past-gens— since past-gen vgc uu formats have not really been explored all that significantly— but we absolutely could fit 1 or multiple of our past formats in here.

in fact, we have significant enough playerbase for these pastgens that we're hosting a classic cup in the (probable) downtime between champions— see here.

i'm not opposed to the idea one way or another, just would like to note that at least for us it's very much doable
Didn't get a chance to weigh in before polling, but I am in favor of UMCL, these tours seem to be the wave on the site, and I agree with most of the sentiments with WCs being pretty unbalanced for a CA tour. It can be hard to fill slots for these tours, especially with how small some of the UM player bases are. CL will create a more competitive tour and is a better option for a second CA tour. WCs are fun, but it can definitely be hosted later in the year as a non-CA tour for people to get their fill of it.
since the votes seem to be very close i'd like to weigh in again:

i'd like to second this sentiment entirely. i do not think we will get the same level of quality out of UMWC as a CA tour as we would out of UMCL as a CA tour. if UMCL is just UMPL + the new UMs i would be perfectly content with that. i don't think we need gimmicks like flex slots to differentiate the two— especially as UMs expands to encompass more formats than just Monocolor & VGC UU.

would be happy to play UMWC not for a CA, but putting a fairly unbalanced format up as a CA tour— especially for its first iteration— seems unwise to me. if there's a point at which we realize we'd rather have the CA for WC over CL, i see no problem with making that change— especially if we test UMWC without the CA and it goes successfully. but at least for the moment, the more standard format is probably for the best— especially for the first iteration of the tour.
 
Thank you all for contributing to the conversation. Thank you all even more so for tying the poll. Very impressive.

UMs leadership will be moving forward with UMCL. We appreciate all the thoughts and recognize that there are reasons for and against both formats. No decision here could make everyone happy. As it stands currently, due to the nature of timing and such, we are scrambling a little bit for order and to make sure everything's ready. Expect threads up within 24 hours, but expect it to be closer to 24 than 12. Expect two managers a team, 8 slots (4 flex vs 4 flex), 8 teams. That kinda stuff.
 
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