CAP 37 - Part 3 - Typing Discussion

[Robraf]

Water/Flying

So this typing was already suggested but I wanted to delve a little bit more into it.

Let‘s talk about Flying first as it‘s the easiest one to explain. Our concept is Beak Blast and for that I truly believe that STAB is necessary so that we don‘t run into the issue that 37 would rather just not run it alltogether. If we aren‘t a Flying type, getting BB actually considered can be somewhat of a challenge. I‘m not saying it‘s impossible but just not as straightforward. Having the Flying type provides immediate benefits by gaining 50% on that Beak Blast cause yes we want to get BB burns and all but we do also care about the damage otherwise we would just run Will-O Wisp. Another argument for Flying would be the Knock Off weakness due to HDB. The most common contact moves in the Meta are Knock Off, Rapid Spin and U-turn and everytime 37 is in against one of these moves the Player has to consider do I want to Knock Off HDB and get burned or do I just not interact with that. All in all I believe
that the Flying Type is paramount for 37 success in using BB as a move folks have to respect.

Now coming to the Water Type not only does it provide a good defensive Profile for 37 it also gains a respectable offensiv presence. Water/Flying is a Typing combination that does noticeably well into ( and could Run Electric Coverage but they typically don‘t and if 37 would force them to play that garbage move all the power to them) Especially the likes of and are mainstays in the current Meta.

Against Wogerpon we force them to use their Grass Type move into us which always will make contact and we resist their Cudgel making it extremly awkward for Wogerpons in how they wanna interact with 37 if even at all.

Our Typing does outstanding into Argh and not only that we also pressure it immensely. While there is a true concern about Water/Flying being a good Type Combination to switch into Mons that have Knock Off like or and therefore removing the HBD before we could BB, we have to consider that Abilities can still change a lot. Therefore I don‘t want to dissect this issue as of now.

This pesky Girl is here and she will stay being relevant. Having the Water Typing we have a great MU into Libra both offensively and simultaneously defensively. While we may not be able to discourage Libra going for Rapid Spin because of the Immunity it has against BB damage with Bulletproof, we can still at least punish it with a burn. Though It is unlikely to begin with that Libra even wants to stay in against 37 if it were to be Water/Flying.

Similar things apply here to Tusk as it did with Libra. Tho Tusk can Knock Off or Spin on the Switch in. Otherwise unless Tusk runs Electric Coverage it will flail against 37.

While we can‘t spread Burns against Hemo we can likely achieve some other shape of progress which will obviously heavily depend on the Moveset we‘ll be given.

BB is, as we all recognize, a very conditional move. It‘s not like a Flame Body where I can just switch into a Knock Off or a Spin and expect 30% Burns. 37 would definitely heavily appreciate slow Momentum so that they don‘t have to switch into their positive MUs always getting Knocked in the process. I do believe that the ability will be a heavy lifter here as either something that punishes contact additionally to BB or something that punishes switching out would probably be the best solutions to the already mentioned issues Flying/Water 37 would face.

Another thing I wanna mention is that Water/Flying is an exceptionally good Typing Combination against the Mons that are entirely immune to being burned by BB that being and And even tho isn‘t immune to the Burn it is to the damage. Being able to threaten every single one of them as well as Non Tera is truely outstanding. Not to mention all the Fire Types in the Meta that are inherently immun to Burn such as

I also wanna address the 4x Electric Weakness we get with this typing. Considering the Meta, a lot of Ground Types are around such as etc. and because of that many Electric Types have seen a decrease in usage. Our worst Nightmare is one of those mons that are currently not as common. Same can be said about Electric Coverage. Mons such as and so on all have decent electric coverage yet they rarely play it as other moves are typically preferred/prioritized. This means that even with a 4x weak I believe that 37 would not have to worry as much about it just cause the Meta is currently not encouraging electric coverage.

 

[shnowshner]

Hi everyone it's shnowshner. I enjoy upsetting people in my spare time (just ask SHSP spoo Joeshh Zetalz)

Here's my submission for GROUND/FLYING. Today I will make headway in my dream to unleash Landorus-Threerian.

The most immediate thing is the offensive synergy. Ground hits all three of Flying's resistances hard, while our STAB Beak Blast discourages the Bug and Grass types that might try to pivot in, mainly Snaelstrom and Ogerpon-Wellspring. Additionally, opposing Fire-types that might try to take advantage of us with their burn immunity also need to contend with our SE Ground STAB! The main roadblock to our typing is going to be the various Steel, Rock, and Electric types that are immune to Ground – Equilibra, Zapdos, Moltres, Corviknight, Stratagem – plus more specific things like Air Balloon Gholdengo, Alomomola, and Gliscor. This isn't a terribly long list, and we're only considering two moves here. I find this to be the ideal offensive typing for people wanting to focus more on Beak Blast's capacity for damage.

Defensively, there's plenty to love. Electric and Ground immunities are a huge boon as always, and we're neutral or better vs the majority of relevant attacking types. Stealth Rock being the only hazard that affects us pre-Tera and our resistance to U-Turn aids in minimizing chip over the course of a game. Being weak to Water and especially Ice does seem bad at first, given both are traditionally Special, and the most relevant Water-type attacker in the tier, Ogerpon-Wellspring, has an evil non-contact move we can't hope to get a burn off of. But it's not as bad as it may seem, since key mons in Great Tusk and Dragonite like to run Ice Spinner to aid in handling other Grounds, and that's the exact sort of pressure relationship we're looking for: do you aim for the strong SE hit if it comes at the cost of a potential burn, especially once Tera gets involved? Our resilience to chip and overall defensive profile also leaves us a likely target for many Knock Offs to aid in wearing us down, whilst making it much easier to stomach on our end vs other Flying-types that live in fear of Stealth Rock.

Now you may already have noticed that this typing is contending with two established Pokemon in Gliscor and Lando-T, so the assumption would be that we're competing quite heavily with them. This is certainly true to an extent, but sharing a type doesn't mean we're fulfilling the same purpose for a team. Gliscor and Lando serve dramatically different roles, the former's Poison Heal encouraging much longer gameplans, while the latter's Intimidate and lack of recovery pushes for more immediate value and smart pivoting. Importantly, neither have access to a reliable Flying STAB like the one we are guaranteed (Acro sorta exists for Gliscor but it's contingent on losing Toxic Orb, and using Fling isn't worth it), so the door is open for a third Ground/Flying to exploit the combo's incredible offensive prowess.

Ground/Flying sticks out to me as encapsulating everything we could want from a strong Beak Blast user, providing the foundation for a threatening damage-dealer with the way both types cover each other, all while giving us a solid defensive backbone with a prominent Achilles' Heel that encourages the opponent to throw attacks our way even at the cost of a potential burn.

other types i like + thoughts

Water/Flying is a strong contender, it's a surprisingly good offensive combo that hits many relevant Pokemon, and it's great at actualizing Beak Blast's burn function thanks to the great matchup into Fire-types, the various status-immune mons in the tier, and many non-contact moves like EQ or Ivy Cudgel. The vulnerability to Stealth Rock and massive Electric weakness (also Kyurem bait) dampers this a tad for sure, but no where near enough to keep it from a frontrunning combo in my eyes.

Dark/Flying is another sick offensive combo, I think the defensive merits are a bit more questionable but Ghost resists are highly valued right now and we're importantly neutral vs Fighting, so a clear defensive niche is present here, even if relegated to a more minor role later on.

Ghost/Flying I honestly dig, it leans into the conditional burn of Beak Blast very hard esp with being so horribly Knock weak, but you make up for that with a slew of useful type matchups and a fairly dangerous STAB combo. I don't know about the feasibility, or practicality of comboing Beak Blast with Hex (I'm assuming we'd have access since it's on like every Ghost), but at the very least it's the most novel interpretation of the concept thus far and adds an extra layer to how we can benefit from our chosen move.

I do think there's room for a non-STAB typing to work with Beak Blast but I've not been convinced yet, and don't want to use space here to mention some ideas I've had when others could use that opportunity. The whole aspect of more focus on using Beak Blast to burn I'm a bit wary on, it's easy to think about how these interactions might play out in a 1v1, but the real challenge is putting ourselves into position for these 1v1s to occur. I've been more attracted to the STAB-based typings as a result, since damage is damage, and it is more than capable of applying sufficient pressure onto the opponent that they wander into a burn eventually.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Wanted to shout out Grass/Flying.

Firstly, let's talk about the offensive synergy. Grass has a reputation of being a terrible offensive typing; however, being able to snipe common Ground-, Rock-, and Water-types like Cresceidon, Garganacl, Stratagem, and Alomomola is always appreciated for a physical attacker trying to utilize a fairly risky click. Furthermore, giving it Flying STAB allows for our CAP to sting common responses to Grass STAB (read: Waterpon) in the metagame such as Dragapult, Kyurem, and Mollux. While it is true that this combo does have a laundry list of things that can swap into one of its very two STABs, most don't appreciate getting hit by the other outside of Gholdengo, Zapdos, Corviknight, Raging Bolt, and Moltres.

Where this combo shines best is on defense. Having a part-Grass typing grants our CAP a Water resistance and an Electric neutrality, which when combined with Flying's excellent defensive profile gives us a resistance spread of Fighting, Grass, and Water (giving us a great Wellspring and Snael check). Being neutral to Electric also means that we can tank stray Volt Switch from things like Iron Crown. While its weakness profile is rather terrible, common foes can't really swap in due to its STAB options hitting pretty damn hard.

Furthermore, this mon finds value in what its typing does badly - its neutrality to U-turn is patched up by Beak Blast's burn chance, while it remains weak to Stealth Rock and thus a great lure for Knock Off attempts. Furthermore, similar to shnow's Ground/Flying concept, coverage in the form of Ice Spinner forces foes into a dilemma of whether to accept the burn or turn tail and run. Finally, the main Rapid Spin users in the tier face big punishments for trying to remove on our CAP - Great Tusk and Equilibra both despise being burned and can't take on this mon's Grass STAB, while Mollux hates Beak Blast's sheer damage.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Seconding Dark/Water. I think it fulfills all the criteria we have set for this mon
Actually uses Beak Blast - It's weak to all 3 of bug, grass, and fighting, so Flying coverage is the best type for it
It will actually force opponents to hit it - As H-Samurott has proven, Dark/Water is a vicious offensive combo
It dissuades opponents from clicking special moves and/or incentivizes them to click physical (contact) moves - Aside from being weak to ubiquitous moves like u-turn, which I'm not sure is actually a benefit, Dark/Water actually has a decent specially defensive profile - Fire, Ice, Psychic, Ghost, Water, and Dark are all types that we have at least one special user of and that it resists.

I will say that this sort of constrains our stats phase - We'll have to have both a high offensive stat and enough defense to not get folded by stray U-turn, which means that we will probably have to sacrifice speed. Depending on what you want personally from this CAP that could be a bad thing. I would, however, argue that choosing Beak Blast itself constrains us quite a bit already, and there's no type combination that will perfectly synergize with it.

Thoughts on other typings

Dark/Flying: The other primary Dark type combo, it's just middle of the road. Dark and Flying don't synergize together particularly well outside of Fighting attacks, but you do get near-perfect neutral coverage, so that's something. I'm not sure how to build this mon around Beak Blast, honestly - the things that tend to absorb Knock also tend to absorb status as well, see Gliscor and Libra. I feel this is the typing we're most in danger of either not running Beak Blast or running it solely for the STAB. That said, I would love to be convinced otherwise, as this is a fairly popular suggestion from what I've seen.
Ghost/Flying: Interesting. It's a scary type combo with a prominent weakness to a common physical move. Pretty much the only thing that makes it worse than Dark/Water is that its specially defensive profile is a bit less impressive. This one is my next choice.
Water/Flying: An all-around solid type, no great strengths or weaknesses. I'd be OK if this one were chosen, it's got enough to make a mon around.
Rock/Flying: A weird, weird typing, but I kinda like it. Mainly this has a really strong offensive profile, which encourages opponents to hit you, especially since rocks are critical to wearing this kind of mon down. The weakness this build has is that it doesn't really have a defensive profile - immunity to ground is nice, but you don't really resist any good typings, and you have the typical flying weaknesses of Boltbeam on top of Water and Rock.
Ground/Flying: Landorus-Threeian is right lol. This is a decent typing, but the issue is that it shares a type with Gliscor and Landorus, which inveitably creates defensive weaknesses even if they have entirely different roles. This also doesn't encourage opponents to click any contacts moves - it's resistant to hazards and thus knock off, and is only weak to Water and Ice, both specially-biased types. I think this one would use Blast purely for the damage, which we want to avoid.
Grass/Flying: I'm sorry DBD, this typing is bad. No offensive pressure, very prominent defensive weaknesses. This feels like you lost to Woger one too many times and immediately wrote this.
Pure Dark: I'm worried this typing just isn't offensively threatening enough. Compared to Dark/Flying, you don't have the oomph on your Blast to really dissuade Fighting and Bug types from coming in on you, and although they are more incentivized to click their moves in your face, you are highly predictable. You also don't have an extra STAB to force damage on those fairies and Knock absorbers. This typing would likely need to be heavily compensated for in the stats phase - I just don't see the vision for this.

 

[TheShowdownHero]

I personally also like the idea of water flying,rock flying,dark flying,ghost flying and grass flying in that order tbh,All pretty good typings for what we are trying to do here.

Water Flying in particular is perfect,because it stands out as a water and flying type with beak blast

 

[Jomakl]

I would like to suggest Water/Grass
This typing is interesting because it shares many advantages of water/flying but doesn't have the same flaws.
It is neutral to electric and rocks, and because of its weaknesses baits out flying and bug type moves that are often contact. The only weakness that is a true threat is the abundance of special poison types.
Water/Grass, resists ground steal and water, protecting us from earthquake/earth power, ivy cudgel(water) and flash cannons that could otherwise be threatening to this mons game plan.
Its offenses are pretty solid, can match up into water with grass, hit steals with water, and both can hit rock types for se and electric for neutral. Flying assists into other grass types and most fighting types.

 

[Robraf]

Flying
I was thinking about this for quite some time but ultimately I do wanna at least mention the possibility of us going just Mono Flying. I already talked about why Flying is mandatory in my eyes so I wanna use this to focus more on why I believe that Mono-Flying can be considered as well.

While my previous Post talks about Water/Flying and how effective the Water typing is in the current meta alongside Flying, this obviously doesn’t apply here for Mono-Flying. The main benefit of Mono-Flying in my eyes is the fact that it automatically opens up a Moveslot. When we look at most Mons with Two types they usually always want to run both of their stabs offensively, this is obviously not always the case but it‘s typical as long as the two types are actually good offensive typings and the Pokemon in question also have an offensive presence. A good example for this is who always runs double Stab. On the other Hand as a counter argument we have who never runs a Normal Move at all. Mono Flying would make us want to use BB as it‘s stab but we have so much more liberty with other moves we can add to it making it inherently more customizable. We have seen how a Mono-Flying Type with could withstand time and stay being relevant to this date admittedly due to Regenerator and its Stats. If Torn-T can do it I believe that with good decision making 37 could do it as well.

Funnily enough I would even consider Flying/Normal as the normal Typing doesn’t really give us any drawbacks aside of the fact that Fighting is neutral which can be argued for that it‘s pro concept. It also adds a Ghost Immunity which are most commonly special anyway. The addition of Normal also doesn’t necessarily want us to use an offensive Normal Move and therefore not obstructing our Moveslot liberty.

And as a Side-Note I want to quickly shoutout Dark/Flying here cause Dark usually means access to Knock Off and Knock Off is such a good move that it really doesn’t waste a slot with a second STAB move anyway.

 

[a fairy]

Hello and welcome to the feedback post! Consider this my own personal thoughts on all typings I saw submitted, and for some of the more "novel" or "out there" ideas, a brief comment on their potentiality for slate. This shouldn't be seen as a "slate will be the X most positively regarded types", and expect at some point a tentative slate for consideration/discussion, but y'all should have the opportunity to see my thoughts on your submitted types and advocacy arguments before a demo slate swings around and you're suddenly scrambling to find space for your favorite type against problems I had that you were totally unaware of.

I did not prepare avenues for response directly, but if you like a type that you saw me be dismissive of, I recommend and encourage you to put some words together in response to my thoughts on said typing. I think there are certainly response avenues that exist, but I didn't like, write out "advocate against this concern of mine" or "speak more on this topic" for most typings. Some typings I flatly do think are better than others, so some of these typings I don't even really touch on negative attributes - this doesn't mean they're all sunshine and rainbows, but rather than I see those attributes as not being major problems for potential slating for this stage.

With all that said, let's get into it. My DMs are open as always, though I do ask for patience if you message me, as I am a bit busier than I was at the start of this stage. Please read the posts I'm quoting for each type, as if you have questions or further thoughts you may find them answered or discussed in the original suggestion posts.

Dark / Flying

Spoiler

So, I'm writing this one last, because when I started in the AM, quziel had yet to expand their thoughts. So I started at the bottom and worked my way up, and here we are at the king. Like below, to some extent, this is a formality. A Flying-typing that has a neutrality to U-Turn is quite nice, and the things it independently brings to the table, such as a Fighting neutrality and a Psychic immunity, as well as good presence into the VR.
I'm really keen on some of the matchups discussed - Kingambit feels mostly missing in action in discussion, but gets brought up here and has its own unique play on it. Dragonite and Rev are other Pokemon that I don't see talked about a ton, but this typing in particular excells at facing down. While to some extent these aren't super unique to this typing (Rev it sorta is), this typing really does push contact over non-contact quite well.

Water/Flying

Spoiler

Hi, kenn. So this typing was seriously discussed even before we had locked in Beak Blast, and kenn does a good job of explaining some of the benefits here - threatening Fire-types who don't care about burn, a good defensive profile (Lugia WISHES), a crippling fear of the Electric-type (maybe only a benefit in my eyes), Wellspring hater energy. That kinda stuff. This type has seen success in the past, even if Pelipper and Gyarados have strong other justifications for sure. Mantine's a defensive wall in its space, I swear! /lh
But yeah, I mean, let's be real - to some extent, this was a formality. Water/Flying was at the forefront of basically every BB-focused typing conversation even before the vote concluded, and has been one of the kings of the playground in every conversation we've had in earlier parts of this thread over in the live chats. I suspect if you don't have an opinion on this one yet, I'd develop one quick, because so many other typings are comparing themselves to it.

Steel/Flying

Spoiler

I'm probably going to get lambasted for considering a typing with three lines of explanation, but I do think this typing stands for itself in the angle of the defensive powerhouse typing similar to its chronological neighbors in this post. In most every generation since Gen 3 we've seen a Steel/Flying type dominate the physically defensive space, between Skarm Cele and Corv. Each of them operates quite similarly, but there are meaningful differences for sure.
What we kinda haven't seen is any of those really have a strong Flying-type STAB to hit with. Corv and Skarm have Brave Bird and sometimes even use it, but the difference between the BB cousins has been explored pretty heavily already and I'm not super motivated to echo Discord conversations I vaguely remember. Of all the typings I'm thinking of slating, I'd love to see more folks' thoughts on this one, in part due to a really short nomination post of a very logical typing.

Dragon / Flying

Spoiler

I can see it. I kinda didn't at the start (hi ice types) but this is a good post, and the Water/Flying angle is one that not a lot of later typings really take (presumably because it's been taken by the first three submissions!), but in an angle I really did not see a lot of discussion during the earlier parts of this discussion in thread or in the live chatrooms. Given the history of this typing, I'm actually somewhat surprised, certainly in early generations this was kinda the type for the big bosses of Pokemon, even if it was never really box art legend typing.
I am less Woger-centric and more Ice-afraid than you are, though I think you'll see a consistent throughline of actually enjoying having an Achilles heel of being noticeably weak to a specific specially-inclined type. Though I will acknowledge Ice is less specially-leaning than it used to be. Shoutouts to the tech (to my understanding) of the burn activating on the second and third hit of TAxel but not the first.

Dark

Spoiler

I'm a fan of this one. I strongly agree with your meta commentary about CAP solo-types being uncommon, but I think the justification put forward and the unique properties of CAP37 and its concept make it work well here. Full disclousure kinda stuff - I'm a pretty big advocate for solo-types conceptually, so I do have some natural bias influencing this here, but I think you've made a very good case in your post as to why this A) stands unique compared to Flying/Dark and even Dark/Water (that came later), and B) why this should be considered beyond more "well why not".
I think a weakness to U-Turn here is very motivating. I touched on that in Water/Dark (which got written earlier due to going backwards) but it's just as present here without a real worry to 4MSS that W/D had. I like what Dark does regarding other typings as well, blanking the special-heavy Psychic yet being weak to Fairy (hi hemo), a weakness to Fighting... Yeah. I really do think this works, even if you try to account for my own personal biases.

Ground/Fire

Spoiler

So, something to consider about CAP is that we play in a metagame similar to OU, meaning there's a lot more present than just the CAPs. For example, Crucibelle, Naviathan and Plasmanta are fully unrated on the CAP VR and Cawmadore is C - four mons of nine you wouldn't really expect to see in an average CAP game. So, unfortunately, nine become five - not the end of the world, but you were already operating on a limited scope which is rough.
Additionally, these are like, really good types in isolation. We never get to see it, thanks Game Freak, but the one time it was given to a good 'mon (Primal Groudon) it was, kinda the best 'mon. I have a hard time seeing a Ground/Fire CAP37 running Beak Blast regularly at all, given it's going to compete for one of two available slots realistically with this CAP37 happily running dual stabs.

Psychic / Flying

Spoiler

I'm very curious as to what you mean by decent resistances and a typically specially defensive type. I'm not seeing it, and you didn't really elaborate on it. Weaknesses to Ghost, Electric, and Ice don't strike me as specially defensive, unless you're accidentally mentally poll-jumping assuming that we'll have the stats that it isn't even worth clicking SBall/TBolt/IBeam into it? Not a fan of that.
Additionally, we only have Fighting, Grass, and Psychic as resistances, and Ground as an immunity. I get Psychic as a specially offensive typing, but I wouldn't exactly put this very high up on my mental calculation of "decent resistances" really. Maybe I'm missing something here, but without a longer post going into more depth about why this typing reads to you as the things you describe it as, I can only really think of Pokemon that are defensively inclined in spite of, rather than due to, their typing - Xatu's Magic Bounce, Sigilyph's Magic Guard, Lugia's Multiscale.

Dark/Water

Spoiler

Damn, you really did cook. I, like you, had seen that joke and kinda just moved on past it, even as you submitted and advocated for it. I really enjoy the Great Tusk, Wogerpon, and Hemo, alongside the U-Turn weakness (something Flying-type can only get neutral to!) that you've put forward here. I kinda didn't think much of this typing even after it had been put up, but I do like the angle being taken and the argument you made for it. I have concerns about 4MSS syndrome here for sure, given that both STABs are quite useful, but there isn't really a lot of good physical Dark-type moves.
I also think that this typing, even if you didn't touch on it much, isn't like, all that and a bag of chips, really (pos). We see it on some decent mons, Gren and Hamurott first and foremost, but it's not like the typing is so good as to be uniquely desirable and inherently viability-making, both of those 'mons have typing as mostly an afterthought in their viability arguments. I think that the resistance spread for this typing is particularly motivating, with Electric and Fairy as primarily-special types which meaningfully threaten it, and Fighting/Bug/Grass as Beak Blast gambles mindgames is quite cool. I definitely can see this showing up on the slate.

Steel/Psychic

Spoiler

I think there's a world where I slate this. I dunno that this metagame is the world where I do that. You say we bait Spin, Knock, and Fighting-type moves, but I'm not actually seeing that. Clicking Spin on a Steel/Psychic type is purely a "well let's remove hazards" - which necessitates CAP37 to already be in to accomplish this trade, and I'm struggling to see this being true. Your angles around the big problems here are either polljumping or necessitate specific items (in a way that I do not think is fair play in the context of a typing stage).
This 'mon does not want to be in against the common spinners - Equilibra, Tusk, Treads, Mollux, hell even Saharaja strongly threaten this typing with powerful Ground or Fire-type attacks, so any turn that CAP37's already in against any of them, I am honestly of the opinion that CAP37 likely is forced out with this typing. Fighting-type attacks are neutral, so it's not baiting those, and sure I'll give you Knock but it's hard to sell a typing like this on Knock when everyone in the interview room has "baits knock" as one of the top bulletpoints of their resume, yknow?

Ghost/Flying

Spoiler

I do like this typing, but I am worried. I think it's very strong in the sense of encouraging CAP37 to click Beak Blast, physical Ghost attacks are hard to find or rely on and having a reliable STAB will be beneficial for certain. I don't know really get the talk about U-Turn here, though, this typing and CAP concept I feel like surely any U-Turn clicker would rather just hard switch out. I really don't see any Pokemon choosing to click U-Turn into this - something that every Flying-type has to grapple with, but your wording seems to imply that we'd expect U-Turn clicked into it, which I'm flatly not convinced of. And then to blank Rapid Spin too, sure we have a very tempting Knock offer, but I do wonder if this typing causes most chances of burns to fail.
That said, the Knock offer is real strong. This typing is certainly special in the context of the modern Gen for certain, and while I have zero comments on the poll-jumping part of the idea, I do think you have also listed a number of good physical contact attackers (Zama crunch, Tusk Spinner, Argh Knock) that would be happy to click into you Beak Blast out of the equation. A slate contender, but certainly not a shoo-in.

Rock/Flying

Spoiler

It feels weird to be writing positive about this after being so dismissive of the one right below it (I am writing these in reverse chronological to give quziel time to expand on Dark/Flying), but Rock/Flying certainly doesn't have quite as much competition for its presence. Today was the day I learned that Rock doesn't resist Ice, wild. I think that you have laid out a good handful of notable interactions, and I especially like that this maintains a losing game against Equilibra personally, an interaction I've seen discussed a fair bit in the Discord.
I am a fan of this typing, I think. I like the mutually assured destruction interaction of Rock's presence against Ice, I like this type's defensive presence and what it brings to the table with regards to Beak Blast's burns, though I think I would've taken a different angle with regards to the explanation of its defensive characterists - I think angling everything around "well look at what it does to Ground's coverage buddies" is odd when everything here more or less is ruining Ground's life already. I can see this one making slate, for sure.

GROUND/FLYING.

Spoiler

I didn't even pull up a type calculator, NGL, because who ATP doesn't know the intricacies of the Landorus type? I think my deep concern here is, unsurprisingly, the competition it has with Landorus and Gliscor. You do touch on this, for sure, but I do think you spend oddly longer on the characteristics of the typing, something which I think was never really in doubt, and not a ton on the overlap problem. You're right, I do think they have a fair bit of distinction between the three of them, in the sense that I trust voters of future stages should this win to drive CAP37 in a direction not previously covered by either Lando or Glisc.
That said, I do think this type is not super pro-concept, unfortunately. A deep weakness to Ice, one of the more specially-inclined types in the metagame, is alarming to me, and I think that passing out burns doesn't benefit this type a ton realistically. It's not anti-concept, by no means, but I think I'd find a hard time fitting this into the slate personally with how deep our options are. I'm not outright dismissing it, but I find this one hard to swallow.

Grass/Flying.

Spoiler

You know that one png of the lady with the text being "sure why not"? That's what I feel about this typing, kinda. My brain is screaming to me that this typing is like, famously bad, but like, you make a good case for it. I think the line of "yeah we have a bad defensive profile but things can't really swap in" is a bit hard to buy. Grass isn't actually all that great of an offensive type, most usable Grass-type attacks have rough drawbacks (Chloroblast, Wood Hammer) or are not super reliable (Seed Flare, Power Whip). I worry that the typing's presence isn't actually going to be all that much a benefit in offensive presence.
Unfortunately for this type, I suspect that it will not make the slate just due to the nature of the submission list being so thorough - it's hard to envision a typing making the slate while bringing with it an angle of warping future stages to be more about 'how do we make this typing usable' than it does about encouraging Beak Blast. I think that it's definitely possible as a slate option, but I think that it doesn't actually present enough positives to justify an inclusion.

Water/Grass

Spoiler

I went into this feedback part expecting to not be sold on this typing, admittedly, and to some extent I still am not. However, I do think you've made a fairly decent case for yourself from an angle of taking hits and baiting in stuff like U-Turn. I am less convinced about your claim that Flying-type attacks are often Contact, only Brave Bird and Acrobatics really stick out to me as reliably used, and the latter move is quite limited in Gen 9 - plenty get it, precious few use it. I'm not sold on others being meaningfully present in Gen9. That said, I do like specifically the angle about discouraging popular non-contact physical moves.
I do think, however, I have a bit of a difficult time imagining a W/G CAP37 running Beak Blast as a core part of its kit. This typing alone only is resisted by two types, and Flying only adds three SE hits while removing both resistances. I think that for a dual non-Flying type combo, I'm not convinced this is good enough type duo on its own merits to risk a tightrope walking when it comes to try to get it to run Beak Blast. I'm not convinced this is a type that is going to make it to slate.

Flying

Spoiler

I'm glad someone put it up, at least! As seen in my other thoughts (which I have yet to write as I work backwards starting from here), I'm obviously worried about STAB offense options, specifically situations where CAP37 has a desire to run two attacks that aren't Flying-type. Absent of a Normal/Flying offer, like you mentioned, I think in some ways this is the most simplistic approach (positive tone) to ensuring that CAP37 doesn't abandon Beak Blast in its movepool. The problems inherent to Flying (the Special lean of Electric and Ice) are on show here without anything to "take the edge off" as it were, but the positives of Flying are also present obviously.
I think that comparisons to stuff like Torn-T are a bit tough to make so early in the stage, though I also recognize from a "power budget" POV that this typing draws as little as possible from the bank account to allow for future stages to push more aggressively. I think this is a contender for slate, though I think it is going to have a unique case for making it compared to other typings - like you said in your post, the value of this type is more about what it doesn't do rather than what it does do, which can make comparisons hard.

 

[Chillie]

Water/Ground

We all know how good this type is, it's a classic. And I think it has very good synergy with Beak Blast. The move's very existence scare Grass types from switching into it, but it could also be a rare Water-type that wouldn't have to learn Scald to be able to inflict Burn! (the only other one off the top of my head that could do that is Rotom-W.)

Right off the bat the offensive potential from this type combo in this Meta is fantastic! Defensively it's just a very solid blanket-check to a lot of common offensive types flying around like Fire, Poison, Electric, and Steel. It does have to worry about Grass-types like, Pokemon with Grass-type coverage, and the not-so-uncommon-anymore Freeze Dry, but you take the bad with the really great. I think it's a very flexible type, we could make it entirely defensive, a strong pivot, a Knock-Off spreader, we could even make it spec into offense if we wanted. I think it's a very cool combination worth looking into as a high-ceiling option for a non-Flying Beak Blast user.

 

[grovylestand!]

Hi there a fairy! Sorry for the late response, I may have been jumping ahead to stat spread a little bit. As for those particular examples, the only real threat is Krilowatt which we can deal with with a simple lightning move. The main Pokemon used that uses Shadow Ball is ig Gholdengo, which is certainly a problem, but currently has no real viability. I will say that the Flying is HUGE defensively due to the presence of Libra and EP being the biggest move on it, also imo Tera could be interesting as a spinblocker (Tera Ghost.) I do second Steel / Psychic though so feel free to scrap my suggestion, sorry for the poll-jumping!

 

[Just a Penguin]

As many already said, I agree with Ground/Flying, mainly for 3 reasons:
1. ground deals super effective dmg on everything that resist flying, being rock, steel and electric
2. unlike ds, bb isn't that powerful move, hitting not common or never used types for super effective dmg, being grass, bug and fighting, and being resisted by some of the best physical in the meta, being garg, corv and rarely rotom w; so, for good dmg, it needs STAB.
3. bb is a low priority move. No matter if u r afa regieleki, bcs even a munchlax will move first (if uses a normal/high priority move); Gliscor demostrates as Ground/Flying can be a great defensive typing, allowing CAP 37 to take a hit and then attack, and even triple axel mons like Meowscarada and Weavile must beware before clicking, bcs when u r burned ur dmg output halves, and then u r a free setup fodder or dead weight in general, even if the latter could (rarely) carry icicle crash.
Yeah, u face competition with lando and Gliscor, but I think we can make it work. The latter two work well mostly bcs this type combo is gorgeous.

 

[i am a dirt]

Hi there a fairy! Sorry for the late response, I may have been jumping ahead to stat spread a little bit. As for those particular examples, the only real threat is Krilowatt which we can deal with with a simple lightning move. The main Pokemon used that uses Shadow Ball is ig Gholdengo, which is certainly a problem, but currently has no real viability. I will say that the Flying is HUGE defensively due to the presence of Libra and EP being the biggest move on it, also imo Tera could be interesting as a spinblocker (Tera Ghost.) I do second Steel / Psychic though so feel free to scrap my suggestion, sorry for the poll-jumping!

This morning, I had shower thoughts about CAP 37's type. Personally, though, I feel like my previous suggestion, Steel/Psychic, could only be really impactful if it had Levitate or Earth Eater. This would allow it to truly counter Ground-types or . Like a fairy said, the thing that I considered the most was Knock Off. (Yeah, also mentioning these two abilities is polljumping, so I disagree with myself.) Steel/Psychic doesn't bait out Fighting well, since the part Psychic might force out things like . Without a resistance or immunity to Ground, the only thing that it really does is bait out Knock Off, and that's not good. I also forgot about U-Turn. Really, dirt?!?
This is where me using in OU and not CAP punches holes in the data, since doesn't exist in OU and I had to mostly counter . In OU, anything that can run Knock Off will run Knock Off and will use Knock Off. While CAP is similar to OU, it's not exactly the same. Hell, I could Tera Dark the toucan and still burn something from Knock Off. That's why, unless it gets the theoretical Steel/Psychic CAP 37 gets slated and gets Levitate, I'd like to run with:
Water/Dark
Crawdaunt's the biggest bird! Crawdaunt's the biggest bird!
I do also like Dark and Flying/Water. While, for Flying/Water, I did say that Beak Blast STAB was unnecessary because it's more of a defensive move, being used to spread burn. Dark is also good, with the whole discussion of the few to none monotype CAPs going around as well as just being a good type. I personally don't agree with Steel/Flying or Ground/Flying, because Beak Blast is a physically defensive move, possibly for a physically defensive CAP, causing CAP 37 to face competition with either and or and . But it's time to stop beating around the bush.
I personally agree with Water/Dark because its resistances are good for playing mind games with the opponent. This typing baits out a whole host of new contact moves that I never even thought about, like 's E-Speed, and its forms' Wood Hammers, U-turn, as well as Draining Kiss. The list goes on and on. This typing also has a better matchup into than Steel/Psychic, having super-effective STAB. It doesn't even need Levitate. As an extra bonus, Beak Blast even provides good coverage, scaring away Grass, Fighting, and Bug-types. All in all, I renounce Steel/Psychic (sorry grovylestand) and am going to Dark/Water because the person who came up with this cooked harder than my walnut-sized brain ever could.
Have a good day!

 

[a fairy]

For sanity's sake, I will be focusing only on responses that try to add something meaningful to the conversation, and not respond to "i like such-and-such type" which are helpful as part of a larger post but do not need to be directly addressed.

Responses Response

New typings
Water/Ground - I'm not very convinced on this one. AFAICT, the only things that Flying provides to this type is the ability to hit Grass and Bug types for SE damage, with little else changing on the type chart. While useful, I don't think the aim of this Pokemon is to be hitting everything for neutral/SE, and given the small range that Beak Blast provides to this typing, I do think that it might entirely vanish from movesets.

Responses via new post
Psychic/Flying - I have some pretty strong disagreements with the assessment that "the only real threat is Krilowatt" and "The main Pokemon used that uses Shadow Ball is ig Gholdengo .. currently has no real viability" - a quick glance at the CAP VR shows me that Gholdengo is an A-rank Pokemon, Caribolt and Zapdos are A-, and viable Pokemon like Darkrai, Ramnarok, Deoxys-S, Dragapult, Latios etc can all run Electric-type coverage.
Ground/Flying - You've indicated that Ground/Flying is a good typing, which was never really in question. I don't disagree with most of what you're saying, my concern is primarily that this typing doesn't benefit much from burns (you name the two Pokemon to use contact Ice Type moves, neither of which strike me as particularly good reason to have to spend the entire rest of CAP37's build process trying to get out from Gliscor/Landorus's shadows.
Steel/Psychic - I am not willing to consider polljumping justification for slating a type, sorry.

Responses via original post edit
Ghost/Flying - I like your comments for sure. I don't know that I think an outright weakness to Dark-types is as exciting as you make it out to be, but I do see the angle you've taken as being legitimate here for sure. I do wonder if a single burn is worth taking a SE hit and losing the item, but I suppose that would be a matter of opinion. You also list some Pokemon in Knock where I'm not actually super sure Burn's super beneficial on - Arghonaut and Ting-Lu already isn't hitting for damage really and Gliscor is pre-Poison'd, as an example.

Responses via Smogon PM
Fire/Ground - For your first point, I am not willing to consider polljumping justification for slating a type, sorry. Your second point about Primal Groundon seems to somewhat miss my point about it - I am not saying that Fire/Ground is inherently good by nature of what it is, but more than what we have seen of it has shown itself to be quite strong, further explaining the worry I have about dropping Beak Blast. You even agree with me on this point mentioning Camerupt and Smokomodo which I didn't for length reasons. As for your third point, I think we are on the same page - it's fair to limit your example to CAPs for those reasons, but I think it makes it not a very useful discussion in favor of the typing in the context of the CAP metagame at large.

Now, with that all put together.... Let's talk about a potential slate. I am eyeing Friday or Saturday to begin the slate voting, so I want the conversation to begin focusing not on new types or what have you, but instead focus on how to fill out the slate properly. Typings within categories are ordered by submission, not by my personal preference.

The following types are likely to make up the bulk of the slate, and you should expect most of them to be included. If you find one of these types to be not worth slating, I would recommend putting together a pretty good argument against the positives painted or a strong reason that hasn't been considered yet.
Dark / Flying
Water / Flying
Steel / Flying
Dark
Rock / Flying

The following types are good contenders for the slate. You should not expect all of these types to make it in, in fact you might not even want to expect the majority of them to show up on the slate. These are types I am less convinced on but for various reasons have good arguments for inclusion, but some may also have decent reasons against inclusion. If you're looking for something to sink your teeth into, spend your time in this section, as reasonable pushes for/against will have the most impact on these.
Dragon / Flying
Dark / Water
Ghost / Flying
Flying

The following types would take a lot to be slated. They are not entirely out of the question, but problems with the type, unresolved questions, or what I percieve to be a strong community disinterest in the type hold these back. These can be solved with a new angle advocating for the type, posts in response to concerns raised that resolve them, or community push in favor of a type. I would not be holding my breath, personally.
Ground / Fire
Psychic / Flying
Steel / Psychic
Ground / Flying
Grass / Flying
Water / Grass
Water / Ground

 

[the_strikelasercl4w]

I would like to start by showing support for a slate other than my own. Dark/Water is the type combo I would like to support. Personally I like the idea that 37 takes Beak Blast strategically, and not because it is the strongest STAB available to it. I understand that BB needs to be a threatening move or it may as well just be Will-o-Wisp, but shoehorning it into the move slot just because there is no other option seems lazy to me. Secondly I like that water poses a threat to the fire types looking to avoid the burn.

RIP fire/ground lol

 

[dex]

Typings I like a lot:

Dark / Flying: This is by far my favorite typing. Ghost resistances are rare, and resisting Knock Off makes a move we want to punish less punishing to take.

Water / Flying: A classic defensive typing. I do think this one may struggle to compete with the many, many, good Water-types SV CAP plays host to, but I think it works well for what Beak Blast is trying to accomplish via threatening Fire-types that are immune to burn and Gliscor.

Steel / Flying: Another absolute classic of a defensive typing. Steel / Flying is a known quantity, a defensive behemoth of a typing that is very resilient to most physical moves. I have more confidence in this typing's ability to compete with Corviknight than with Water/Flying's ability to compete with other Water-types because it just stands up so well to physical moves on its own.

Typings I kinda like:

Dark: I think of all the non-Flying typings, pure Dark is the most interesting because it invites in physical attackers so well. This also doesn't have nearly as much of an issue with competing STAB options that the non-Flying dual-typings are going to run into.

Flying: Pure Flying is a very interesting type to me in that it puts CAP 37 in direct competition with Tornadus-T. This is both a good thing from a differentiation and challenge perspective and a bad thing because Torn is a good mon.

Rock / Flying: Rock Flying is by far the most offensive typing submitted. I think this typing would play extremely differently from any of the other submissions, but I also don't think that's a bad thing. It would use Beak Blast more as a wallbreaking tool or even a piece on a sweeper.

Typings I kinda don't like:

Dragon / Flying: The quad weakness to Ice scares me since Ice is a decently common coverage type on a few Pokemon we want to target. Additionally, Dragon tends to not be a very good defensive typing, Fairies are pretty common.

Ghost / Flying: I think this typing would be really cool, but it being immune to some of the most common contact moves as well as weak to one of the ones we are targeting, I think the typing is actually just not that great for the concept we are trying to make work.

Grass / Flying: See Dragon / Flying but replace the word Dragon with Grass. I actually kinda like this typing more than Dragon / Flying but not enough to make me thing its actually worth it.

Ground / Flying: This typing I think would work well but the Pokemon it puts CAP 37 in direct competition with are simply the best Pokemon in the format, and Beak Blast as a move is just a little gimmicky which may prohibit viability.

Typings I don't like at all:

Psychic / Flying: The only Flying typing I have down here, Psychic / Flying is just atrocious defensively.

Dark / Water, Ground / Fire, Steel / Psychic, Water / Grass, Water / Ground: I'm going to say it here once, but I think any non-Flying dual-typing is just a terrible idea for CAP 37. You're introducing not one but two STAB typings to compete with a move that isn't the best thing in the world. I think these typings are just begging to fail the concept. If any of them get picked, I think it should be Water / Ground, but I still think that none of these should be chosen.

 

[escarlata]

Has not been able to participate in discussions due to a busy past 2 weeks, but am happy to see that we are working with Beak Blast and Water/Flying is looking to be the forerunner among our candidates, and likely what I'm going to be voting for.

While already probably mentioned a few times, the resistance to U-turn/Water Cudgel is a huge strength of the typing, and the pseudo-weakness to Knock Off is a really nice touch. I like it a bit more than a resistance to Knock Off, and the lack thereof to Bug/Water that Dark/Flying provides imo.

Personally, I’ve not been convinced by the combinations that end up with a Bug weakness. Encouraging the opponent to U-turn on us seems cool, but the cost for it is way too steep. The negative priority on Beak Blast means the U-turn is always going to go off first; we take a non-insignificant amount of damage; the non-STAB Flying move is literally telegraphed so they know exactly what to send out to threaten us. So we are still on the backfoot the next turn, all just for a burn. It just feels too much of a momentum sink and puts a lot of pressure on our stats and ability to carry us.

I'm also not a fan of any dual-type that is not partially Flying, for the same reasons that have dex have mentioned. The best users of Beak Blast pretty much want at least 1-2 types of defensive utility, with which we end up in a situation where Beak Blast is probably only gonna be viable on a 3-attacks set.

I know that there are concerns that with Flying / x, CAP37 will be running it not for the condition, but just because it's generically good. But I would like to bring up the case study of Moltres-G in STABmons, who runs Beak Blast off its lower offensive stat. I'm not saying that we definitely has to end up with a similar stat spread, but it is a good example of how much flexibility we still have down the line.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Going to throw my hat in yet again for Grass/Flying.

Part of the thing about making a CAP with a conventionally poor typing is that you appreciate what upsides you get out of it. I think the upsides to this CAP are being understated a little bit. Let me cover some points here from the feedback first:

I think the line of "yeah we have a bad defensive profile but things can't really swap in" is a bit hard to buy. Grass isn't actually all that great of an offensive type, most usable Grass-type attacks have rough drawbacks (Chloroblast, Wood Hammer) or are not super reliable (Seed Flare, Power Whip). I worry that the typing's presence isn't actually going to be all that much a benefit in offensive presence.

Grass / Flying: See Dragon / Flying but replace the word Dragon with Grass. I actually kinda like this typing more than Dragon / Flying but not enough to make me thing its actually worth it.

I'll be the first to agree Grass is a rather mediocre offensive type. However, it does really well into the metagame at hand while simultaneously hitting things other typings simply can't cover in one moveslot. Let me compare this type to Dragon/Flying, which is another type combo I saw this submission compared to.

Anything italicized doesn't appreciate taking a Beak Blast anyways, but I added it in for the sake of completeness.

What Dragon/Flying coverage hits better: Raging Bolt, Moltres, Pecharunt, Zapdos, Dragonite, Kyurem, Dragapult
What Grass/Flying coverage hits better: Arghonaut, Alomomola, Cresceidon, Garganacl, Equilibra, Great Tusk, Ting-Lu

As you can see, being able to click a Grass move into most of the major physical walls in the metagame improves CAP 37's offensive potential drastically and more than justifies its place on the offensive side. Considering most of the major physical walls do fold to Grass types, as above, I do think CAP 37's typing woes are overstated potentially. Waterpon, for example, uses its Grass typing to muscle past these physical walls, and this CAP can easily do the same

Now onto moves: I will definitely grant that Grass's main STABs do carry some unreliability. However, the thing is that they are all high-BP moves in their own right, while there are definitely lower-risk alternatives like Seed Bomb / Bullet Seed that don't get the same potential value as Power Whip or Wood Hammer but provide solid drawback-free damage for players looking for a less risky teamstyle.

Let me expand on the typing's benefits a bit further as well. While I mentioned its solid offensive coverage (seeing as most of our physical walls are, at best, neutral to Grass), it also provides great defensive benefits. Being neutral to Electric is always nice against stray Thunderbolts and Volt Switches, while being resistant to Water is great as a switch-in to common Waters like Cresceidon and SD Snaelstrom. Not to mention, it also serves as a great Waterpon check by virtue of resisting its two main STAB options and forcing it to take the burn.

I would also like to note that we really should not be considering any non-Flying types as they likely won't be using Beak Blast outside of maybe Mono-Dark. Cheers all and carry Tropius's flames.

 

[Amamama]

I agree with dex and escarlata that any non flying dual typing is a very tough sell, especially those mentioned that already have a sufficient offensive profile. Typings like water/dark, water/ground, fire/ground and even water grass will never drop their main STABs bc they already hit so much pretty hard and have such good neutral coverage.
Fire ground is already so strong as neutral coverage and beak blast doesn’t add any beneficial coverage, that even if it had literally no other attacking moves I would still assume beak blast being dropped for some sort of utility.
The water combos do appreciate beak blast as coverage specifically to not give waterpon (and to lesser extend rilla) free reign.
That said the Ogerpon matchup seems really tough for any Mon that is weak to one of its stabs.
Water ground will basically never get the chance to use the beak blasts effect bc the only Mons you want to click it against over your STAB combo obliterates you unless you expend Tera, which then begs the question why 37 wasn’t another typing to begin with.
Water/Grass and Water/Dark are slightly more realistic in terms of seeing them use beak blast.
That said Water/Dark still has to deal with a weakness towards most common physical typings. While this does incentivize the use of beak blast to deter those attackers, it also heavily commits to a relatively narrow path of a very bulky and strong physical tank and even then you are committing a lot of your defensive resources to a play that you might be able to pull of once or twice a game.
Given the very high value moves water dark will likely have access to, beak blast would face heavy competition for a moveslot over moves like flip turn, sucker punch, aqua jet other coverage options or recovery or utility moves like rocks, spikes etc.
Of these water types I actually like Water Grass the most, just bc its almost entirely neutral defensive profile means a specially bulkier build will be able to force the opponent into physical attackers trying to beat it down with neutral attacks, similar to how blissey and Chansey use their mostly neutral defensive profile, which gives value to beak blast. Having a neutral grass matchup is also beneficial towards using beak blast against ogerpon or rillaboom in the same way water/flying does.

Taking a lesson from Shox I believe a relatively neutral holder of few like mono dark or water/grass is more likely to benefit from Beak Blast, bc the trades they force from physical attackers are more even than for typings which are weak to commonly used physical attacks, which leaves way more room for the rest of the build to respond to the concept.

TLDR: I believe any non flying typing on the slate should have a relativ neutral defensive profile and/or not be weak to commonly used physical contact moves, to leave more room during the coming stages.
In addition I believe any non flying typing where it’s realistic to run 3 or more STAB moves due to their high value or which already have a lot of coverage overlap with beak blast targets should be heavily scrutinized.

IMO this excludes water/dark, water/ground, fire/ground and steel/psychic from the slate.

 

[i am a dirt]

I'm stealing dex's formatting. Mweeheehee.
Also, I won't discuss most of the typings that I don't wanna discuss because I am lazy.

Typings I like a lot:

Dark/Flying: IMO, many of the same things go for this as Water/Flying, with not slating being inexcusable and whatnot, except it doesn't have a quad-weakness to Electric and a neutrality to U-turn. It's just better Water/Flying.

Dark/Water: I think that this typing is really good and on about the same ground as Water/Flying and am about to get crashed out on by anyone who says otherwise. One of the main reasons that this type is fought against is its very good offensive profile, thereby causing 4MSS and being anti-concept. But hold up. Beak Blast is mainly a defensive move, and Dark is not known for having nuclear physical STABs outside of Knock Off. So, why shouldn't it run Beak Blast to punish switches and the physical moves it baits so well, and Knock Off for a good STAB option that also removes items?

Dark: Take Dark/Water and remove Water. It's a tad worse defensively and that's the only difference. Still a very good typing for CAP 37.
Water/Flying: This is a good typing for CAP 37, and should be getting slated. This typing is really good defensively, with its only weaknesses being Electric and Rock. And name one optimal, physical Electric move that is non-contact. Tera Blast Electric? And what 'mon would run specifically Tera Blast Electric to deal with CAP 37? Overall, this typing baits out physical moves well. And STAB on the concept move is just the tiny little shriveled cherry on top of the icing of the cake.

Typings I kinda like:

Dragon/Flying and Grass/Flying: These two are going into the same category because they're practically the same. I'll just skim over it because everyone else discussed these very well: quad-weakness to Ice, good otherwise, imo relatively unimportant STAB on Beak Blast, and a different set of MUs.

Typings I kinda don't like:

Steel/Psychic: The only three things redeeming this typing imo is the neutrality to U-turn, weakness to Knock, and the fact that I made it. Without a Ground-immune ability, this typing shouldn't be slated, and that's polljumping.

Steel/Flying: The main reason I don't like this type is that we already made :Cawmodre:, who is Steel/Flying, and the competition with and is just not great. It does its job well, though.
Typings I don't like at all:
Flying: This typing is. . . interesting. It's still not a good idea imo. First, CAP 37 will have to compete with , which is more likely to be put on a team because of Regenerator. But up next is the big one. Mono Flying has only one STAB - Flying. And while that may seem pro-concept, keep in mind that CAP 37 would more like to run Brave Bird, which no mono-Flying shouldn't get. A CAP 37 without Brave Bird would be too passive due to not having a secondary STAB and would be easily forced out by any bad MU's a Flying would have.

Ground/Flying: First off, this bumps into direct competition with and . Second, this typing is quad-weak to Ice, a pitfall of Grass/Flying and Dragon/Flying, and while they still aren't good, they're better. Even though this typing is really good defensively, it's not good at the jobs we want it to do. Third, it has a losing matchup into , with Wellspring having super-effective non-contact STAB in Ivy Cudgel, which, at +2, nets a guaranteed OHKO on a Ground/Flying with 175/160 defense.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Steel/Flying: The main reason I don't like this type is that we already made :Cawmodre:, who is Steel/Flying,

This is absolutely not a valid reason to not go with a typing. There are absolutely valid reasons we would want to go with a typing we already have in the past, especially when the type of mon that Beak Blast encourages us to build is completely different from how Cawmodore is played.

Anyways, gonna make a post about Ghost/Flying later cause I really don't like it. Depends when I get the time. Just wanted to get the above stuff out of the way.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Coming in to defend water/dark once more. I think that what other typings, especially monotypes, lack is offensive pressure.

Firstly, running Beak Blast at all demands we forfeit the most common forms of offensive pressure, since we don't synergize well with either boosting moves or status. This is a problem, because we need offensive pressure to force moves to be clicked into us. If the opponent can just switch in to something that doesn't mind a burn or doesn't make contact without risk, or worse, their contact-using mon on the field not be threatened by our CAP, that's a problem.

Imagine Gambit without Swords Dance - even if Gambit is great at literally everything else (typing, ability, bulk, priority, it goes from one of the best and most threatening mons in the game to like, a decent anti-offense tool and not much more purely becuase it no longer forces its opponents to hit it. And what we are doing is doubling down even harder on the 'making opponents hit us' idea, on top of the constraint that we're also trying to make Beak Blast work as a move.

If we go for a typing like pure Dark, the only thing we have going for us is Knock Off, in a tier saturated with and thus overprepared for Knock Off bots. At best, we're heavily constrained in moves and stat stages going forward because we need to accommodate for this mon being non-threatening, and at worst, the mon just ends up being non-functional. That's also part of the reason I dislike flying dual-types - Frankly, Beak Blast is a bad STAB move, and we'll end up having to not give it literally any other flying move besides maybe peck because it's just outclassed.

Now onto why Water/Dark in particular. As I stated in a previous post, it's just great offensively in general, but I think I failed to emphasize how good it is at forcing progress in our particular format. Assuming it gets Knock, because why wouldn't it, while not all of our Knock absorbers are scared of it, a good many are - gliscor, tusk, and libra are all in A or higher on the viability rankings. And, for lack of a better way to say this, Water/Dark is just especially deadly this gen. 11 out of the 19 pokemon in A rank or above on the viability rankings are hit super-effectively (which, admittedly, is not the same as actually having a winning matchup against them, but still). The combination of Knock pressure, burn pressure, and just the sheer coverage of it gives it that crucial pressure. It's also very likely to run Beak Blast for the grass matchup (cough cough wellspring cough cough). Its weaknesses tend to be physical, and resistances special, though obviously with such a polar type there are exceptions. Both Water and Dark have a bunch of useful moves that we can add or take away to adjust its strength and flexibility.

Is it a perfect combination? No. It's fairly derivative of Wellspring, for one - you can say almost everything about the CAP in the previous paragraph to Wellspring and it fits. It's also a very polarizing typing, with 5 weaknesses and 7 resistances. Amamama summarized it much better than I could:

Taking a lesson from Shox I believe a relatively neutral holder of few like mono dark or water/grass is more likely to benefit from Beak Blast, bc the trades they force from physical attackers are more even than for typings which are weak to commonly used physical attacks, which leaves way more room for the rest of the build to respond to the concept.

...it also heavily commits to a relatively narrow path of a very bulky and strong physical tank and even then you are committing a lot of your defensive resources to a play that you might be able to pull of once or twice a game.

It's also true that this constrains our stat stage quite a bit. I'm a little less convinced that this is a major downside, because we are trying to make Beak Blast work, which already narrows our options down significantly, but it's true that a typing like Water/Flying would have a lot more options for a build.

In my (admittedly polljump-y) view, this CAP would use Beak Blast mostly for coverage, but would also have the threat of burn to force your opponent to respect you, as well as a last-ditch resort akin to Destiny Bond. I think this is the best way to get value from the move, as opposed to building around getting the burns consistently.

I'm not quite as sold on this typing as I was originally. It has its weaknesses, and I'm sure there's merits for some of the other typings that I just haven't thought enough about yet. It's not like us picking a different typing ruins the CAP or whatever. But I do still consider this a strong contender and I think people are undervaluing it.

 

[dex]

Assuming it gets Knock, because why wouldn't it,

This is not an assumption we can make at this time.

Here is the list of legal moves to assume a Dark-type will have access to:

Per this post:
Post in thread 'Redefining Moves'
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/redefining-moves.3721589/post-10445421

Assuming access to Knock Off is polljumping currently.

You talk a lot in your post about the offensive merits of Water/Dark. Those merits are why the typing worries me. Typical Pokemon that we would want to leverage Beak Blast against such as Great Tusk and Kitsunoh are both hit stronger by these STABs than by Beak Blast. I fear as well that this typing will succumb to being “worse Arghonaut” because, even with Knock Off which isn’t an assumption we can make at this time, it is in fact just an Arghonaut that is weak to Fighting. Additionally, having a Grass-weak typing like this means that you don’t force Ogerpon out. You effectively have to sack the mon to burn Ogerpon, which is not usually a great trade.

I am still completely against all non-flying dual typings.

 

[Gekokeso]

Haven't had the chance to talk here this week but now i wannna give my opinion on all typings so far:

Should be front runners in the slate
Flying/Dark
The most particularly effective defensive typing in the slate. As mentioned before, Flying Dark is particularly exellent in leveraging not only a great offensive typing for the metagame, but it also is quite decently good Defense wise. The particular highlight of the typing is the way that some of flying dark's defensive short comings such as a neutrality to moves like CC or U-turn instead of the common flying resistance to them is perfectly patched up thanks to beak blast, which is extremely pro-concept.
Flying/Water
Flying Water is a known great offensive and defensive typing, not much that needs to be added. The ability to come in and force out the likes of Ting-Lu and Libra is quite a valuable trait to have in this metagame. One big advantage of the typing I don't see being highlighted enough is how it ruins the ability of many physical attackers to try and avoid the burn via terastalizing into a fire type, as you now can hit them with supereffective water stab instead. This ability to deny anti burn attempts from many physical attackers I think makes the typing pretty good.
Rock/Flying
I originally was gonna have rock flying on the lower category, but the more I thought about it the more actually ended up liking about this typing as my prefered choice. Flying Rock sort of combines the idea of making up some of the defensive short comings of the typing like Flying/Dark does, with the ability to offensively threaten out Fire Types and tera fire pokémon like the likes of Hemo or Cinderace. Another pretty unique aspect of the typing is the ability to be a flying type that scares out other flying types, as the likes of Moltres or Dragonite are particularly really good Targets for us to come in. Comes with the option to Stomach most of what SD Gliscor and Hemo to an extent do to us as well.

Should be considered for the slate
Dragon/Flying
Pretty decent offensive and defensive typing. Dragonite's woes with wanting to have a reliable flying-stab and the past dominance of the likes of Mega-Salamence and Rayquaza show just how good the typing can shine with a good flying type move to deal damage with. Also helps that with the exception of the steel typing, the dragon typing part allows it to scare out stuff like Raging Bolt from switching in. Defensively its great, as electric types as previously mention no longer terrify us, and we get to switch on the likes of Oger and Alomomola. Pretty decent typing that should be considered for the slate.
Flying/Ground
And here is my hardest hot take in this entire slate: yes, Flying/Ground deserves to be in the slate consideration, ESPECIALLY vs steel flying. Ill make a whole writeup on steel flying below and why its so much inferior to other flying Type options later, but for now I wanna point out the typing's many boons. Flying/Ground, just like Flying Rock and Water, offensively threatens both fire types avoiding the burn from beak blast as well as nearly all other typings that resist the move in Steel, Rock and Electric. Defensively I'd say its biggest weakness is not patching up defensive limitations with Beak Blast like something like Flying/Dark, but it makes up by not having a rocks weakness. Now, the biggest criticism I see leveraged against this typing is that it competes with Gliscor and Landorus, and thus it would be hard to make it stand out. To that I say: WE. GOT. A. FLYING. STAB. This point just flies through so many people's heads when discussing making landothree and it really grinds my gears. By the sheer virtue of having a flying move that can actually deal meaningful damage we already distinguish ourselves so much from Lando and Gliscor, who don't run a flying move unless its a bizarre tera flying set. This already heavily impacts the matchup against stuff that tend to use the former two as switch-in oportunities such as Ogerpon-C, Arghonaught, Snaelstrom or Malaconda, since it actually can leverage a flying move to threaten them out. I don't see why flying/ground gets scrutinised for this when there's typing with bigger problems of fitting in in the metagame.

Personally don't think they are worth it
Steel/Flying
Remember when I said that I was gonna grill this typing above? Well yeah, here I am. Flying Steel can leverage Beak Blast as a decent damage option and patch up its Close Combat weakness, that much is true. However the applications of Beak Blast for an effective defensive boon are way lower with this typing compared to the likes of Flying/Rock or Flying/Dark, as Flying/Steel is good enough already on its own defensively, meaning that unless its using in a primarily offensive way it won't be taking much advantage about it. Oh and that offensive profile? Its BY FAR the worst out of all other flying typings in the slate, even the likes of Flying/Psychic and Flying/Grass beat it in that department. Electric types see it as the easiest switch-in opportunity of their lives as neither stab can do enough damage to it. Fire types also get in with extreme ease, as the likes of Ramnarok or Moltres are particularly happy to come in and force it out with ease, with a lot of other mons also getting the option to setup on it with a tera fire and not be particularly scared of anything but the beak blast damage. And I think its frustrating that Flying Ground gets scrutinised for being too similar to other two mons when Flying/Steel has the same issue but significantly worse. Your competition is Corviknight and Skarmory, two physically inclined flying steel types who very commonly use brave bird anyways, you are already competing with those two, and then also have to be outclassed in the flying type damage department by the ocasional cawmoodoore. It just grinds my gears that Flying/Steel gets scott free with the comparison argument.
Dark
My Disdain for the non-stab typings has been made clear since day one and I still don't believe the concept will be successful without it. Dark is the only one with a chance due to the face that without other options it will be mostly forced to run it. However, I can't say I support it since this is just Dark/Flying without the rocks weakness that gives away most of what makes Dark/Flying good.
Ghost/Flying
Grass/Flying
Gonna pair these two together as they both have similar issues. Flying Ghost's knock weakness does invite the use of knock off on it and thus getting burns, but besides that the typing doesn't do much offensively compared to a lot of its competition. The biggest benefit It has it that its an extremely annoying typing for the likes of Gliscor and Tusk, and could be a tremendously annoying spinner, but other than that it has a tough way forward. Grass Flying has a horrific defensive typing that could use Beak Blast's capabilities yes, but its a big ask given how frail the typing is. Its biggest boon is that its offensive profile is pretty decent,

Should be completely vetoed from consideration
Psychic/Flying
Easily the weakest typing in the slate and does not have a good enough offensive profile to justify its inclusion to the slate.
The rest of the non-stab typings.
Dark is the only tolerable non-stab typing and even then it pushes it. There of the typings either have way too good stabs to justify running beak as a weak coverage move (ground/fire, Water/dark) or straight up have 0 offensive presence to warrant beak's use (Steel/Psychic)

TLDR Remove Steel Flying from frontrunner consideration, add Flying/Ground or Dragon/Flying instead. Only add a single STAB-less typing to the slate at most, and if you do, dont consider any that isnt mono dark.

 

[i am a dirt]

This is absolutely not a valid reason to not go with a typing. There are absolutely valid reasons we would want to go with a typing we already have in the past, especially when the type of mon that Beak Blast encourages us to build is completely different from how Cawmodore is played.
Anyways, gonna make a post about Ghost/Flying later cause I really don't like it. Depends when I get the time. Just wanted to get the above stuff out of the way.

My bad. Brainmush not brainmushing.
With that into consideration, I now believe that Steel/Flying is worth slating, it offers some good defensive merit albeit competition (and NOT by Cawmodre!).
Also, I did get flamed, but not for thinking Dark/Water is good.
I might make some more relatively inconsequential posts about my opinions on the other types if I feel like it.
See you later (maybe)!
(i forgot to post that emote in the last thread)

 

[Gravity Monkey]

Ok so while my favorite typing in the conversation right now is Water/Flying, I don't really have anything meaningful to add there, everything I think has kinda been said so im just gonna go :thumbsup: here

What I'd like to talk about and my second favorite type here is Ground/Flying which I think should really get slated. I don't think I'm surprising anyone here since I talked about it in my first post here. So, from what I've read, where we stand on this right now is this: We already know the merits of Ground/Flying, its been the typing of top mons for the last like 5 gens, ground hits a lot of mons that would want to get on Beak Blast, especially fire, + there's all the stuff shnowshner covered. Yes you do lose to Ogerpon now, but like Water/Flying gets fried by wild charge Zama, same difference-ish imo. On its strength alone its, if not pro-concept, at least neutral. Should be good with that, right?

Here's the main issue that's been brought up: Ground/Flying competes with some big players in the metagame right now, these being Gliscor and Lando-T. It's gonna be a difficult line to balance our mon around these guy so they don't overshadow one or the other while the mon having its own niche and yadayadayada. On the surface it's a sound argument, but to me when you think about it for a second it kinda falls apart.

1- I'm gonna add to Gekokeso's argument here which I'm 100% with: There has NEVER been a ground/flying with a flying stab. Immediately we find ourselves in unmarched territory. What I'm especially baffled by, and sorry this is gonna be kind of a sophistic tangeant, is that no one seems to be throwing the same shade for Steel/Flying? Sorry maybe it's been written about on Discord and I missed it but like, guys come on lets be frl, Brave Bird is a good move adshunkjiadshundsa Like why are we going like "Ohh well you know Skarm and Corv can run these but they don't often do" when every single Skarm or Corv set on Smogon analysis lists a flying STAB (Excluding bullshit (positive) stall sets like ID Press and no attacks Spikes Whirlwind). And like yeah okay these guys have a very specific kind of physdef niche that doesnt encompass all of what Steel/Flying could do but like Beak Blast isnt magically gonna give them a new offensive dimension, like its still a very phys wall/defensive-pivot oriented tool. Obviously burn is more permanent but like ID kinda does the same thing by making phys attackers fuck off. Youre not sweeping anyone with a -3 prio move thats for sure. To me Beak Blast isn't enough to create a new radical niche for steel/flying types and I'm tired of pretending it will. That doesn't mean it's not the case for ground/flying btw, its just that the difference in treatment between these two is kinda pissing me off lol. Anyways...

2- Porbably my biggest take here but I think Landorus-Therian is more or less a nonfactor. For all intents and purposes its a UU mon in SV CAP. Looked up WCAP and Cyclohm Tour stats and like its not looking great. It has less usage than most B-ranked mons on the VR. It has abysmal winrate. Ik its because the VR council forgot to vote on it but like it got mogged in stats by fucking Naviathan, unranked, in WCAP. Plus now we're adding one more mon to the format with the express purpose of beating its ass. Landorus-T is the floor. If the mon we make manages to get overshadowed by Lando-T, whatever typing it has, we failed. We should be striving to make a Pokémon that is, if not outright better, at least more adapted to the current metagame.

3- So while Gliscor is not that, and arguably the best Pokémon in SV CAP at the moment, it's also in my opinion pretty far from where I think we're heading with this concept. My point would be that Gliscor is a weird as hell Pokémon. It has a lot of characteristics that make it pretty unique as a Pokémon and, while its typing is part of that, its not the whole story either. Obviously the key thing separating it from the common of mortals is Poison Heal, which grants it particularily great survivability and is a tool that we are most definitely are not going to have access to. This in turn makes it a sponge for everything status/knock-off (one of the physical moves we are trying to bait), and this is a big part of its defensive profile. Keep everything the same but this ability and you have a completely different mon thats forced out by a plethora of new threats. A Gliscor you can burn is suddenly a lot more afraid of Alomomola or Cresceidon, as a quick example. While its role as a hazard setter is a lot more dependant on its typing and the things it can switch on/force out with EQ (and like btw we dont have to give hazards to this CAP), its more unique and imo more defining role as a SD breaker than never dies is lot less reliant on it because of Facade. The fact its a prime tera target (tied for top 1 Tera Usage in WCAP btw) should be an indication that its far from an end-all-be-all. Plus, one of the tools Gliscor notably lacks is ways to handle physical set-up sweepers, which is something we have with a burn threat!! Ik this is kinda sprawling and long-winded, but my point is that Gliscor is a very very strange Pokémon with a niche distinct from pretty much anything else, and isnt an example of what a normal Ground/Flying Pokémon looks like. At the very least, I strongly believe theres ample room for another ground/flying to carve its own niche in SV CAP.

These are the reasons I think the current arguments used to discredit Ground/Flying are not super relevant, thanks for coming to my TedTalk. Sorry for the strong language used in this post, wrote this in a caffeine trance. I also support Dark/Flying, and I'm fairly unconvinced by Rock/Flying, I think it's too bad a typing to really make work without overcompensating in other areas.