Announcement SM OU Manaphy Suspect Test

Skypenguin · Aug 30, 2026

The council have considered the points brought up in this thread and we will (potentially) be making a pivot with the suspect!

All qualifying voters will be sent a link to a Smogon form where they will be asked to vote on what the subject of the suspect test should be.
This is ranked choice voting, so you do not have to worry about your votes being split between the different Ban options - simply order them in order of what you would want to vote on.

If one of the "ban" options is selected through the runoff vote, we will have a standard "Ban" vs "Do not ban" vote for that suspect.
If the result is "No change", then there will be no subsequent voting.

The form will be available tonight, Aug 30th, 2026 at 11:00pm GMT-4 (again, you will receive the link if you have reqs).

Ruffles · Aug 30, 2026

Thanks to a call schedule making me work on the weekend, I was unfortunately not able to get reqs. However, if you did, here is the play imo:

1. Ban Swampertite
2. Ban Damp Rock
3. Ban Manaphy
4. No Change

There was surprisingly more support for a swampertite ban than I originally thought, which is very cool, and probably the one that is objectively the most oppressive element of rain and also probably what most people would support from what I've gathered.

Mega Swampert in rain is demon incarnate. It outspeeds the majority of the meta, hits it hard af with rain boosted Waterfall, and has pseudo perfect coverage with water ground ice. Furthermore, it has access to Superpower if it wants to specifically hit Ferrothorn or Kartana harder, Toxic (especially + Substitute) to put pressure on things such as Slowbro and Rotom-W, and also Stealth Rock to support the team.

With its amazing typing, it enables rain by providing an immunity to Electric-type moves and immediate pressure. Tapu Koko cannot actually revenge kill Manaphy simply because the threat of Swampert in the back. Do you click Thunderbolt and now you have to potentially throw something into Swampert? Or do you call out the Swampert by U-turning (or GK if you have it) but then potentially lose the game to Manaphy? It's really, all about the Swampert.

If you actually think rain is a problem, you go with Swampertite. Imagine how decent Rotom becomes into Greninja when it doesn't also have to check Swampert, or Toxapex when it doesn't have to risk pivoting into Waterfall. Imagine how easier it is to punish Manaphy greed with Koko when there isn't a 150 base attack monster that can come in if you don't predict correctly. Finally, it gets too many wins through Waterfall flinches and Ice Punch freezes, just because it is pretty much almost always faster and forces so many switches or defensive play so it gets to use to click them frequently and fish them.

Rain without swampertite would still be somewhat viable just because the other abusers (Greninja, Manaphy, Araquanid, Magearna, etc.) are still very powerful, and I'd be very excited to see what people innovate.

If you do not think rain is a problem at all, I still think you should put Swampertite 2nd. There is rare precedent of Mega Swampert being loaded outside of rain, so banning it doesn't substract much to the tier while potentially improving on the tier greatly. I love what Pias said about SM, I also do greatly love SM, but it has slowly eroded and I really, really want to fix it, and I truly think a rain nerf in the form of Swampertite would be beneficial to the tier.

Abele · Aug 30, 2026

Pais said:
Btw, the real cancer of SM seems to be Magearna at least in my opinion. I'm curious to hear other players' thoughts on this mon. It can virtually run any moveset, and it's impossible to cover every possible variation.

Banning Magearna would bring 1 benefit and 200000 problems. Magearna carries the meta on its back, keeping all the strong shit a bit more balanced. I don't think anyone would agree on a ban unless you come with a deep analysis of what the meta would be post-ban (Which imo it's impossible to guess precisely). Also Diyusi is right, magearna will always be strong but this is its least good moment to suggest that kek.

About the new discussion, I don't think I'd vote to take action in anything that isn't manaphy but I will be thinking about it these days. My idea with manaphy ban was reducing the HO slop by giving bulky teams a easier way to check more things without needing to waste a whole pokemon on manaphy (just to not even check it), creating a better equilibrium between Offense / Weather / Fat, basically diversity. I don't think greninja needs action, neither damp rock or drizzle (Even if i considered at some point but it was just a random thought i had, i dont support that anymore). If tomorrow when I go to classes and i'm getting bored. I'll think a bit about a possible action on Swampert (Main problem are those fucking waterfall flinches ngl) but if anything, it should be a mega stone ban, not swampert.

Luigi said:
~~Also would rather ban Cresselia and Volcarona even ahead of the rain stuff but it seems i'm alone on that camp.~~

The moment Skypenguin started popularizing Cresselia, the new tech(or not so new that was revived) appeared: Taunt lele, Taunt/encore mkazam, Encore hawlucha, Stallbreaker koko.

And of course, let's not ignore the teams/pokemon: All the weathers, Modern HO Slop (TTar mega ho, SD Char x, Volcarona, Gyarados mega). Personally, I think cresselia is p mid rn.

I don't get this anti volcarona sentiment (I don't use it because its a brainless mon for me and there's some ego behind that decision kek, but i still think it's great and recommend it when i help prepping). There's plenty of ways of checking volcarona offensively and defensively. It can't set up save vs common Lando + Magearna offenses without lum berry because Thunder wave became super popular on it's usual set up fodder (If u still use AV Magearna in the big 2026, that's on you), same applies for ferrothorn. Offensive dragon types are very popular rn (Skype's triple dragon HO with Scarf garchomp, that also annoys the mdiancie core with iron tail) (Every dragonite team, DMC specially) (Char x and kommo everywhere too) Then don't forget the obvious walls:Toxapex, Chansey and a lot more.
"Ah yes but you can put Psychic for kommo and Toxapex", Sure, drop Hp ground so heatran walls you.
"Nah, I'll keep HP Ground i will just remove bug buzz"
I don't think you will experiment something more sad than your Volcarona getting walled by Latias or losing the 1v1 vs Cresselia.

Luigi said:
but the rhetoric here is ridiculous, no one thinks it's broken and not even the people that want to ban it have any argument other than please please please we have to change something.

I would recommend you to read the first thread posted by Ruffles. And to be honest, saying there are no arguments to ban something just to say "Would rather ban Cresselia and Volcarona" after that it's just crazy.

Astoria said:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-941587 sacked into Final Gambit
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-943673 sacked into Final Gambit

Idk what are you trying to say by this, the discussion has always been that Manaphy it's great into fat without a real punishment for using it against offense, it will always get a kill or work to bait kyurem black Z move for example, if it doesnt kill something when you drop the z it's because the Kyurem black switched in, if it did, good job, you just basically sacrified your greninja answer!
Not like the Final gambit is unfavorable, you keep your main Anti offense mons while removing the speed control of the opponent's team.

Ske said:
The Only Mon checks Kyurem Black in Electric Terrain is idk Shedinja? Volcarona gets +3 with Quiver and can Hold a Fire Z move in Sun nobody cares about that?

I don't think I need to explain this.

Astoria said:
Giving Rain a tool against stall is not a bad thing.

Why we acting like Rain would get owned by stall if manaphy gets banned lol.

There are a lot of other posts to quote of pure non sense but im lazy to point them out. I think the discussion has moved a lot to another possible suspects that probably wouldn't be supported if the Manaphy discussion wasn't a thing, insane anxiety to get something banned (This also applies for the people suggesting unbans lmfao).

Please, put more effort, this thread has been:
30% Glaze as argument
30% Analysis on meta post-tier action without any argument (Stall being broken for example lol or people saying "manaphy = not broken" "free deo-s and deo-d")
20% Nonsense (Shedinja walling Kyurem Black, Crawdaunt being better than Manaphy in rain when no one uses it)
20% Good posts, being objective these are my favorite posts from each side
DNB: Skypenguin 's posts and GeniusX here. You can tell they bothered to get a good amount of data to do their posts to avoid saying nonsense (There's some cherrypicking with these stats tho). However, there's still a lot of things that I disagree, for example Skype saying rain is trash and using terrible fats as examples as manaphy answer (Which might be true, but falls in the same void that has been discussed, "Being stronger against manaphy rain means being weaker vs the whole meta")
Ban: Welli0u Maktyum Specially Maktyum, his work in this thread (and before it) has been crazy. Their posts are nice to understand this ban manaphy motion.

I wanted to mention these posts (from both sides) because i feel like the opinion you can get based on laddering will be completely distorsionated from the reality. This is the reality, these are the usage stats. Also the fact Rain isn't spammed in SPL it's not because the starters are goats so they all think rain is bad, it's because people actually build there even if it burns the kitchen lmao, won't find a single sample with high usage.

Ash KetchumGamer · Aug 30, 2026

Well, we're going to have to vote DNB twice now.

Ske · Aug 31, 2026

Abele said:
Banning Magearna would bring 1 benefit and 200000 problems. Magearna carries the meta on its back, keeping all the strong shit a bit more balanced. I don't think anyone would agree on a ban unless you come with a deep analysis of what the meta would be post-ban (Which imo it's impossible to guess precisely). Also Diyusi is right, magearna will always be strong but this is its least good moment to suggest that kek.

About the new discussion, I don't think I'd vote to take action in anything that isn't manaphy but I will be thinking about it these days. My idea with manaphy ban was reducing the HO slop by giving bulky teams a easier way to check more things without needing to waste a whole pokemon on manaphy (just to not even check it), creating a better equilibrium between Offense / Weather / Fat, basically diversity. I don't think greninja needs action, neither damp rock or drizzle (Even if i considered at some point but it was just a random thought i had, i dont support that anymore). If tomorrow when I go to classes and i'm getting bored. I'll think a bit about a possible action on Swampert (Main problem are those fucking waterfall flinches ngl) but if anything, it should be a mega stone ban, not swampert.

The moment Skypenguin started popularizing Cresselia, the new tech(or not so new that was revived) appeared: Taunt lele, Taunt/encore mkazam, Encore hawlucha, Stallbreaker koko.

And of course, let's not ignore the teams/pokemon: All the weathers, Modern HO Slop (TTar mega ho, SD Char x, Volcarona, Gyarados mega). Personally, I think cresselia is p mid rn.

I don't get this anti volcarona sentiment (I don't use it because its a brainless mon for me and there's some ego behind that decision kek, but i still think it's great and recommend it when i help prepping). There's plenty of ways of checking volcarona offensively and defensively. It can't set up save vs common Lando + Magearna offenses without lum berry because Thunder wave became super popular on it's usual set up fodder (If u still use AV Magearna in the big 2026, that's on you), same applies for ferrothorn. Offensive dragon types are very popular rn (Skype's triple dragon HO with Scarf garchomp, that also annoys the mdiancie core with iron tail) (Every dragonite team, DMC specially) (Char x and kommo everywhere too) Then don't forget the obvious walls:Toxapex, Chansey and a lot more.
"Ah yes but you can put Psychic for kommo and Toxapex", Sure, drop Hp ground so heatran walls you.
"Nah, I'll keep HP Ground i will just remove bug buzz"
I don't think you will experiment something more sad than your Volcarona getting walled by Latias or losing the 1v1 vs Cresselia.

I would recommend you to read the first thread posted by Ruffles. And to be honest, saying there are no arguments to ban something just to say "Would rather ban Cresselia and Volcarona" after that it's just crazy.

Idk what are you trying to say by this, the discussion has always been that Manaphy it's great into fat without a real punishment for using it against offense, it will always get a kill or work to bait kyurem black Z move for example, if it doesnt kill something when you drop the z it's because the Kyurem black switched in, if it did, good job, you just basically sacrified your greninja answer!
Not like the Final gambit is unfavorable, you keep your main Anti offense mons while removing the speed control of the opponent's team.

I don't think I need to explain this.

Why we acting like Rain would get owned by stall if manaphy gets banned lol.

There are a lot of other posts to quote of pure non sense but im lazy to point them out. I think the discussion has moved a lot to another possible suspects that probably wouldn't be supported if the Manaphy discussion wasn't a thing, insane anxiety to get something banned (This also applies for the people suggesting unbans lmfao).

Please, put more effort, this thread has been:
30% Glaze as argument
30% Analysis on meta post-tier action without any argument (Stall being broken for example lol or people saying "manaphy = not broken" "free deo-s and deo-d")
20% Nonsense (Shedinja walling Kyurem Black, Crawdaunt being better than Manaphy in rain when no one uses it)
20% Good posts, being objective these are my favorite posts from each side
DNB: Skypenguin 's posts and GeniusX here. You can tell they bothered to get a good amount of data to do their posts to avoid saying nonsense (There's some cherrypicking with these stats tho). However, there's still a lot of things that I disagree, for example Skype saying rain is trash and using terrible fats as examples as manaphy answer (Which might be true, but falls in the same void that has been discussed, "Being stronger against manaphy rain means being weaker vs the whole meta")
Ban: Welli0u Maktyum Specially Maktyum, his work in this thread (and before it) has been crazy. Their posts are nice to understand this ban manaphy motion.

I wanted to mention these posts (from both sides) because i feel like the opinion you can get based on laddering will be completely distorsionated from the reality. This is the reality, these are the usage stats. Also the fact Rain isn't spammed in SPL it's not because the starters are goats so they all think rain is bad, it's because people actually build there even if it burns the kitchen lmao, won't find

I think this Manaphy/Rain suspect is really wonky and stuff like this is why. All of these Manaphy/Swampertite/Damp Rock ban discussions just remind me why I think the current gen council knew what they were doing and how important it is to have council members be more active throughout the years. Rain being used as much as it is moreso a sign of Lazy Teambuilding/just stealing a team easy to use like a HO/Rain and that happens to be like one the easiest teams to use. Not because it’s BROKEN because if it was broken it would be winning way more in important games. It still puts up W’s which is not necessarily a bad thing but you have to play well to win with Rain in a even playing field and I think that alone is more than enough to not ban something. Rain in general is no harder to beat than Lele Zam Offense or Zard Y + Heatran Sun & It’s theoretical to say Balance would be better with a Rain nerf too. If I’m wrong saying MSab would be way better and more annoying with a Manaphy ban & saying Balance is free Post Manaphy is equally wrong because I think good Balances that beat Rain not only exist but common because of how common that team is. Suspects should be something deemed absolutely broken and I don’t think anything on that team is Singularly Broken by itself which is why I think suspecting anything on that team is tricky. suspecting Damp Rock if anything would make the most sense but even then idt Damp Rock is broken/ idt Manaphy is or Pert is by itself maybe everything at once with Good Play could be fucking broken but so can a lot of things in this tier with Support bro. How many Pepole prob think Mega Zam under Psychic Terrain is a lil cracked? That lil Magearna can’t save u esp because you think AV is Unviable in the big 2026.

Astoria · Aug 31, 2026

Abele said:
Idk what are you trying to say by this, the discussion has always been that Manaphy it's great into fat without a real punishment for using it against offense, it will always get a kill or work to bait kyurem black Z move for example, if it doesnt kill something when you drop the z it's because the Kyurem black switched in, if it did, good job, you just basically sacrified your greninja answer!
Not like the Final gambit is unfavorable, you keep your main Anti offense mons while removing the speed control of the opponent's team.

I am saying that Manaphy has been scapegoated to be this great evil meta warping stallbreaker when there is no evidence for this.

This whole thread is just crying about Manaphy and coping that a Manaphy ban would bring salvation to this metagame.

You all are just theorymonning because you can not find Manaphy checks in the builder but noone has been able to show and prove on a factual statistical basis (usage rate/winrate/replays) that this guy is broken.

The truth is quite the opposite. It has barely seen any usage in high level play. If it has it at best trades with something with right play or else is sacked in most of its matchups.

I dont disagree that it‘s an instawin button against certain fats and think the „muh click Haze with Pex“ arguments are just as bad.

Abele said:
Why we acting like Rain would get owned by stall if manaphy gets banned lol.

I made exactly that point: It would not. It would adapt and just bring different breakers such as Gyara, Keldeo, Azu or even Crawdaunt & such.
Would is an oversight. This has already happened. Mag or even Araquanid Rain have been seeing more usage than Manaphy has as of late.

Abele said:
My idea with manaphy ban was reducing the HO slop by giving bulky teams a easier way to check more things without needing to waste a whole pokemon on manaphy (just to not even check it), creating a better equilibrium between Offense / Weather / Fat, basically diversity.

Yes you are exposing this thread and the whole ban Manaphy side. Using Manaphy as a scapegoat and being delusional how a ban will improve the metagame in any meaningful way with bad arguments.

„HO Slop“ will always be dominant against fats, its whole point is to spam breakers & overload it while beating other offense with favorable trading.
The solution going forward would be to buff real Balance and Bulky Offense.
A Greninja suspect would lead to this.

Ash KetchumGamer · Aug 31, 2026

I’ve been thinking about this, and I’ll share my opinion here while respecting everyone else's.
I used Rain a lot in the past and had some good results, but it’s not like Rain works miracles, if it did, any top player could just load up a Rain team and win trophies.
In recent years, I’ve played more for fun, I used Rain, and won a few games here and there, just as I did with other teams. In fact, I think I had a better win rate using other archetypes, since every team seemed to have a good matchup against Rain (exept full fat).
When analyzing our current options, there’s a good chance we might end up killing off Rain entirely.
I think Rain is a bit of a cancer in Stour's live tournaments. Speaking for myself, I usually have about five teams to choose from, and Rain is on one of them. I believe a lot of people do the same thing, so Rain ends up being used by someone in almost every round.
When I’m playing Rain, the only thing stopping me from losing to Magearna is having a Swampert with near-full HP, the same applies to bulky CM (Calm Mind) mons. Since this setup occurs in 3 out of 6 Pokémon very easily and can no longer be contained. What would we use instead? Ass Seismitoad?
take it step by step: Magearna, and other threats, will become much stronger depending on what we ban.
If we ban Swampert, we might as well eliminate Rain for good, since he’s the one thing that balances the archetype, both defensively and offensively. He protects you from Electric-types and general threats, he was basically designed for that role and is the heart of the team.
If we ban Damp Rock, I’m not sure exactly what would happen, but the loss of those three turns would be significant.
Banning Manaphy would make absolutely no sense, as it’s definitely not broken.
Banning Greninja might be the ideal move, we’d remove its immense power and could slot in other options for Rain, like Specs Kingdra, which is definitely a step down in quality.
Once evolved, Greninja also has the ability to take out almost all offensive Pokémon in the meta using Water Shuriken (Lopunny, Alakazam, etc.).
This generation has always been defined by powerful threats; there will always be something strong enough to dismantle a bulky team, but these threats will become even more common since players no longer have to worry about rain.
That said, I don't think rain is broken, though I agree it can be difficult to build around.
Given the current situation, I’d have to go with: No Ban > Ban Damp Rock > Ban Manaphy > Ban Swampert.

Eeveeto · Aug 31, 2026

My thoughts have not changed. I don,t see Rain broken. Meta would be better without Manaphy however, even if its not broken by itself either. Therefore, I voted this: 1. Ban Manaphy. 2. Do nothing. 3. Ban Swampertite. 4. Ban Damp Rock.

Astoria · Aug 31, 2026

Ruffles said:
1. Ban Swampertite

I don't believe it is broken at all. You have to keep rain up at all times and preserve Pelipper for it to do anything. There are multiple good checks such as (Mega) Slowbro, Latias, Bulu, Rotom, etc. Also possible to tech things such as Energy Ball Gearna or Grass Knot Lando which Pert cannot OHKO.
I also believe if Swampert was truely broken mons like Tangrowth, Amoongus and such would see much more usage which is not the case.

Swampert, Pelipper and Manaphy roam around freely in metagames such as SV Natdex or SS Natdex and are not broken at all. Why?

Ash KetchumGamer said:
Banning Greninja might be the ideal move, we’d remove its immense power and could slot in other options for Rain, like Specs Kingdra, which is definitely a step down in quality.
Once evolved, Greninja also has the ability to take out almost all offensive Pokémon in the meta using Water Shuriken (Lopunny, Alakazam, etc.).

Thank you.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna in Rain: 199-235 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna in Rain: 228-270 (75.7 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 96 HP / 36 SpD Hawlucha in Rain: 345-408 (107.4 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-X in Rain: 288-342 (96.9 - 115.1%) -- 96.9% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lopunny-Mega in Rain: 261-309 (96.3 - 114%) -- 95.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam-Mega in Rain: 243-288 (96.8 - 114.7%) -- 95.4% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp in Rain: 288-342 (80.6 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana in Rain: 297-351 (114.6 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Greninja is absurd and obviously the sole reason for Rain being this dominant. There is no scarfer or speed control which does not die besides Lele for its Psychic Terrain.
It puts on immense pressure by setting Spikes even in "bad" matchups.
Forces many teams to Defog when Rocks chip on Peli would be essential.
Forces bad 50s in its favor.
Teams can not beat it without very specific techs or Chansey + Pex in the back which are ripped apart by Manaphy. The problem not being Manaphy but Balance being forced into those passive picks in the first place.

Wcop stats:

SPL stats:

Elektro · Aug 31, 2026

1. Ban Damp Rock
2. No Change
3. Ban Manaphy
4. Ban Swampertite

This is the order that I have chosen and voted for.

Banning Damp Rock would undeniably nerf rain heavily and will by itself make all rain users less powerful and I believe that the complaints about all 3 common rain abusers would end. Rain would still most likely be a reliable playstyle after this so we are not removing it completely out of SM OU.

I put "No Change" as my second option because I don't mind the tier as it is right now and I don't believe Manaphy or M-Swampert are that broken. Admittedly, they make Teambuilding hella annoying and harder but they also keep bad teams in check. I also see rain as quite a risky team to load because opponents could just prepare to fully counter it and then you're fucked (and it's not that hard to counter). As for how "enjoyable" the tier is for me, the only boredom I feel from SM is from the fact that I just play it too much and that can legit happen to anything in life. I would not play mons if SM OU got hypothetically removed as a tier.

Ban Manaphy: If this suspect test proceeded as originally planned, I would've voted Do Not Ban. I don't think Manaphy itself is broken and like I mentioned previously in the post, you just get restricted a lot in teambuilding which is for sure annoying. Still placing it above a M-Swampert ban because banning M-Swampert will kill Rain as a whole, whereas Manaphy ban would just lead to different variants of Rain being loaded. No one talked about this but how weird would it be if Rain completely dissapeared out of SM? Imagine the most spammed team just dissapearing out of competitive play completely.

Ban Swampertite: The discussions about this guy getting banned were pretty interesting. I feel like the Waterfall flinch and Ice Punch freeze stuff can be compared to Dragapults SpDef. Drops in SS. In my opinion I think it's actually worse to get SpDef dropped in SS than flinched or frozen by M-Swampert in SM but that argument is subjective, as it's all situation dependent obviously, that's just how I felt playing both gens. Anyways, M-Swampert ban would legitimately remove Rain as a playstyle in SM comp so I am against this ban the most. If you hypothetically get a Manaphy ban instead of this, you'll open up more possibilities to deal with M-Swampert and Ash-Greninja. One thing that I do wonder though is if Damp Rock was banned, would Rain Dance be very necessary on Mega-Swampert or not? Also, there are Fat variations that use Mega-Swampert as the mega and they're pretty funny and could likely be used in tournaments so I do believe this guy has some use outside of rain unlike Manaphy (I don't count Webs as a viable play style in SM). Overall I feel like other solutions are better than banning Swampertite.

This was just my opinion on this whole thing, I believe that Mega-Swampert ban will change the tier the most out of everything from given options so I disagree with it. And even though I'm contra-ban, Manaphy ban or Damp Rock nerf would not have that huge of an influence on the tier, I feel like there was a lot of unnecessary panic regarding this and the other thread coming from no ban side. One thing I do wanna say though we should stop saying "this or that will happen if this gets banned" because truthfully we don't know how the tier will shape. It's fine to make assumptions about how the tier will shape but stop pretending like you know exactly what's gonna happen. Metagames don't shape in just one selected pattern.

Enough yapping, interested in hearing what other people think, this was all just my honest opinion even though some of my friends will get mad at me for not wanting rain completely removed but idc.

Star · Sep 8, 2026

Phase 1 of the voting is completed. 53/59 votes came in and the result of the instant runoff is that we're back to where we started with Manaphy being the winning option.

Round 1
No change: 17
Manaphy: 15
Swampertite: 11
Damp Rock: 10
Damp Rock is eliminated, votes transfer

Round 2
No change: 20
Manaphy: 20
Swampertite: 13
Swampertite is eliminated, votes transfer

Round 3
Manaphy: 29
No change: 24

Username User ID Profile Submitted Put these in order of changes to SM you would be in favor of
Chiharu 591435 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/591435 2026-09-07T14:50:48.452Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change
Yelodash 516917 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/516917 2026-09-07T14:38:58.744Z No change, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy
egalvanc 322179 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/322179 2026-09-07T13:23:22.229Z No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite
MichaelderBeste2 422335 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/422335 2026-09-07T12:43:28.916Z Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, No change, Ban Swampertite
Charmflash 279531 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/279531 2026-09-03T00:58:15.668Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Swampertite
Axzel 571844 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/571844 2026-09-01T22:24:30.377Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite, No change
DeeJ 167867 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/167867 2026-09-01T17:08:46.940Z No change, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy
We Three Kings 246992 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/246992 2026-09-01T13:29:12.586Z No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock
GeniusX 318420 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/318420 2026-09-01T07:05:06.261Z Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy
Endill 478528 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/478528 2026-08-31T22:58:20.047Z No change, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite
Kyo 307454 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/307454 2026-08-31T21:36:16.924Z No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite
Ash KetchumGamer 332819 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/332819 2026-08-31T18:04:25.088Z No change, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite
CM Reuniclus 620979 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/620979 2026-08-31T17:15:44.362Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Swampertite
Eelektrone 688976 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/688976 2026-08-31T17:13:31.875Z Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite
Aso 643202 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/643202 2026-08-31T15:56:15.186Z Ban Manaphy, No change, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock
Always! 200898 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/200898 2026-08-31T15:06:14.432Z Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, No change
NoName6293 604378 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/604378 2026-08-31T13:55:22.853Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Swampertite
hellom 484704 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/484704 2026-08-31T13:41:52.669Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, No change
Welli0u 263543 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/263543 2026-08-31T13:40:57.372Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, No change
Tace 302281 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/302281 2026-08-31T13:33:32.376Z No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite
Santu 335670 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/335670 2026-08-31T12:56:53.358Z Ban Manaphy, No change, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock
White Atoq 523523 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/523523 2026-08-31T12:54:36.287Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, No change, Ban Damp Rock
Brandonlee1 465225 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/465225 2026-08-31T12:40:08.836Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, No change
SASAGEYO 655329 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/655329 2026-08-31T12:11:34.748Z No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite
Baddy 238426 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/238426 2026-08-31T12:06:13.296Z No change, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite
stratdkt 579211 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/579211 2026-08-31T11:36:42.019Z Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, No change
Luigi 210402 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/210402 2026-08-31T11:34:46.837Z Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite, No change, Ban Manaphy
pkcc 452691 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/452691 2026-08-31T10:55:31.735Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Swampertite
Posho 241703 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/241703 2026-08-31T09:28:52.345Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change
Piyu 455512 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/455512 2026-08-31T09:13:50.879Z No change, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite
QWILY 244890 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/244890 2026-08-31T06:33:51.840Z No change, Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock
ChrisPBacon 544502 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/544502 2026-08-31T06:29:42.610Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change
Astoria 399061 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/399061 2026-08-31T06:29:16.824Z No change, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite
Vioz 591533 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/591533 2026-08-31T06:06:05.858Z No change, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy
Tenebricite 415748 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/415748 2026-08-31T06:03:21.937Z No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock
StepC 388643 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/388643 2026-08-31T05:59:55.126Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, No change
Eeveeto 233639 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/233639 2026-08-31T05:25:37.298Z Ban Manaphy, No change, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock
Feitan_allt 713195 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/713195 2026-08-31T05:20:43.434Z Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, No change
Relous 288083 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/288083 2026-08-31T04:54:18.864Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, No change
Eternal Spirit 190962 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/190962 2026-08-31T04:48:29.842Z Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, No change
Drachenkeule 546770 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/546770 2026-08-31T04:47:18.752Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy, No change
cryptbloom 673621 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/673621 2026-08-31T04:42:14.672Z Ban Manaphy, No change, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite
Typhlosion48 441895 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/441895 2026-08-31T04:26:52.627Z No change, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Manaphy
Gondra 286726 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/286726 2026-08-31T04:12:51.948Z Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite, No change, Ban Manaphy
zRyan 657754 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/657754 2026-08-31T04:04:23.084Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Manaphy
Abele 637989 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/637989 2026-08-31T04:03:45.972Z Ban Manaphy, No change, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock
Pais 268987 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/268987 2026-08-31T03:57:57.091Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change
Fdmw 676774 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/676774 2026-08-31T03:56:34.748Z Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite
c0mp 243184 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/243184 2026-08-31T03:52:27.362Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, No change
I do meh 231599 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/231599 2026-08-31T03:31:56.358Z Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, No change, Ban Manaphy
Blazing 647630 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/647630 2026-08-31T03:30:09.612Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite, No change
Kustavan 623266 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/623266 2026-08-31T03:25:19.727Z Ban Manaphy, Ban Swampertite, Ban Damp Rock, No change
Skypenguin 462413 https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/462413 2026-08-31T03:01:23.271Z No change, Ban Manaphy, Ban Damp Rock, Ban Swampertite

Phase 2 of the voting is now open, with 60% required to ban Manaphy.
https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/243

Posho · Sep 9, 2026

Ruffles · Sep 9, 2026

One way in, one way out

Ash KetchumGamer · Sep 9, 2026

Time to save the least broken offensive Pokémon from rain.

cryptbloom · Sep 10, 2026

when is deadline of mana test vote

Star · Sep 11, 2026

cryptbloom said:
when is deadline of mana test vote

I'll give it a week, so Tuesday 9pm -4

Star · Sep 15, 2026

Voting deadline has passed. Manaphy received 25/48 ban votes (52%) which is below the 60% threshold required for a ban.

Manaphy remains in SM OU.
https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/243

Announcement SM OU Manaphy Suspect Test

Skypenguin

Skype (nguin)

Ruffles

Free Palestine.

Abele

To be perfect is to have changed often

Ash KetchumGamer

Ske

Astoria

Ash KetchumGamer

Eeveeto

Astoria

Elektro

formerly Eelektrone

Star

Posho

local gaymer weeb

Ruffles

Free Palestine.

Ash KetchumGamer

cryptbloom

Star

Star