What? You want to use Trick Room?

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Yup, since everyone here is suddenly enamored with the possibility of a Clamperl or Marowak sweep, I thought I'd give you some general guidelines to Trick Room ab/use. Note I'm using as much restraint as I can muster to not flame everybody, so try to avoid tempting me if you can.

First and foremost, before you do anything else, you must learn the 5-turn beat. Trick Room lasts 5 turns, duh. But guess what? You only get 3 most of the time. The first turn is taken up by Trick Room itself. Second is on the switch. That leaves your switched-in buddy 3 turns to do what they want. That's very little time. So plan out in your head the next 6 or 7 turns of battle. You should be doing that already, but you really have to for Trick Room.

Let's give an example here. Everyone loves Power Trick Shuckle, so you TR and go straight for him, right? No. Since Shuckle takes an additional turn to set up after and dies to any physical attack, you have to plan for when the opportunity arises for Shuckle to be coming in on a Special sweeper or Blissey so that you can PT on the switch and not die to the switch in. You also have to of course plan baed on other factors, like weather and the opponent's team. You will NOT have time to RD after the Trick Room.

Secondly, your team must be slow. This sounds so obvious, but so many people miss it. Assuming a 0 IV and -Nature, there's a few very important details to catch. You should be at or below 150 Speed ALL THE TIME. Let me emphasize how important it is to undercut Blissey. It's important. Now, a rough approximation of who can do this is to go by the rule of 7-10. 70 Speed without a Macho Brace is the rough maximum, 100 Speed with one is the maximum. No more! On that note, that means Uxie, Celebi, Jirachi, Mr. Mime and the like all REQUIRE Macho Brace.

Keep in mind if you're not going full Trick Room (I wouldn't, but I guess Anti does), this rule doesn't apply.

Thirdly, since Trick Room is so ridiculously short, your team should have a bare minimum of 2 Trick Roomers (3-4 is ideal). This is NOT optional here. Just Bronzong, the most predictable and non-threatening TR user in the game, won't cut it. There are a lot of guys for the role, unlike Gravity (Porygon2 is my favorite; Slowbro, Dusknoir, MB Jirachi, MB Celebi, MB Uxie, Bronzong, Claydol can all do it). You'll need 3, and make sure at least one isn't pure Psychic type. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND Porygon2.

Finally, know thy Trick Room sweepers, as that's the best reason to use Trick Room. First are the pure all-out sweepers, like Clamperl, Power Trick Life Orb Shuckle (with an always-maxed Gyro Ball!), Marowak, and Rampardos. These frail-ish guys should only take up one or possibly 2 slots on your team. Other than that, there are a TON of slow Choice Banders / Attackers to abuse, my favorites being Rhyperior, Azumarill, and Machamp.

I'll update with more. Trick Room is not easy, but damn it is definitely fun to pull off.
 
Smeargle @ Focus Sash (Lv 1)
~Spore
~Dragon Rage
~Endeavor
~Trick Room

Enemy pokemon need 130 Maxed Base HP to Survive Dragon Rage after Endeavor. Use this pokemon immediately after a faint/U-Turn/Explosion. Spore Something, then Endeavor.

FEARgle for the win. Use it on your TR team for a mighty LOL.
 
This is too absolute for me. I used a trick room team I used to get to #1 on Shoddy two months ago that only had 2 Trick Roomers, 2 fast as fuck Pokemon (I'm talking ScarfGengar) and I certainly did not use the common Marowak / Machamp / Rhyperior "Trick Room Sweepers."

There is however, a handy Trick Room guide somewhere in contributions that you can try and add stuff to...but seriously, tone down your absolute statements.

There is absolutely no need to HAVE to carry 3 Trick Roomers, and there is absolutely no need to make the majority of your team slow as hell.
 
Smeargle @ Focus Sash (Lv 1)
~Spore
~Dragon Rage (Would Ice Shard be better here?)
~Endeavor
~Trick Room

Enemy pokemon need 130 Maxed Base HP to Survive Dragon Rage after Endeavor. Use this pokemon immediately after a faint/U-Turn/Explosion. Spore Something, then Endeavor.

FEARgle for the win. Use it on your TR team for a mighty LOL.

Trick Room is hard to pull off, and its lasting appeal I think is ruined. Making slow guys fast for sweeping only works to an extent. Machamp abuse is awesome though.
 
I agree Trick Room takes time to set up and is easily wasted if you don't plan well or don't know how to use it.

But I disgree on something you said. Your team does not need to be slow. What if all your Trick Roomers (Who are mainly walls and Pokemon with Focus Sash) are gone and your team is left with slow Pokemon? You lose the ability to sweep and wall, and leave yourself vulnerable to attacks, and get swept yourself. I've found this out while using it myself. You should have at least one fast Pokemon to help out in taking out a counter.

Also I would like to note that having a fast Trick Room starter is okay. It helps you get in Trick Room faster and allows you to do what you want to do, mainly what most Trick Room teams do, sweep.

Not only that you should have a Dark resist, mainly a Fighting type to help take care of Tyranitar and such as most Trick Roomers are Psychix types and occasionally Ghosts such as Banette and Shuppet.
 
Hey, don't hate on the sweeping Shuckle. He actually gives stuff a hard time plus he has the added benefit of being incredibly badass.

I see I got beat for a C&C thing. I guess this could be helpful on SM for a day with the Clamperl hype wave.
 
But I disgree on something you said. Your team does not need to be slow. What if all your Trick Roomers (Who are mainly walls and Pokemon with Focus Sash) are gone and your team is left with slow Pokemon? You lose the ability to sweep and wall, and leave yourself vulnerable to attacks, and get swept yourself. I've found this out while using it myself. You should have at least one fast Pokemon to help out in taking out a counter.

Also I would like to note that having a fast Trick Room starter is okay. It helps you get in Trick Room faster and allows you to do what you want to do, mainly what most Trick Room teams do, sweep.

The first part is exactly why you need more than 2 Trick Roomers on a team. Secondly, you obviously don't know what you're talking about in the second paragraph, as Trick Room's priority is below that of Whirlwind.
 
Trick Room is hard to pull off, and its lasting appeal I think is ruined. Making slow guys fast for sweeping only works to an extent. Machamp abuse is awesome though.

You want Dragon Rage and not Ice Shard for three reasons:

1. Level 1 Smeargle is slower than everything anyway.

2. Level 1 Smeargle gets owned by other priority users anyway.

3. Dragon Rage allows you to kill most pokemon even if you use Endeavor at full health, even if they have Leftovers. Ice Shard requires you to be at 1 HP and fails against anything with Leftovers. If you're at full health, Sash can still kick in, giving you a chance to cripple another pokemon before you faint.

Follow up with a priority user and keep Stealth Rock down, and you can essentially cripple 3 pokemon since they will be unable to switch in, or they will be destroyed by even the weakest priority hit.
 
Chris sounds angry whenever he posts.

Your guide has a lot of good points, but you are way too absolute, as others have said. Sometimes 2 Trick Roomers if fine, other times 4 is needed.

Also Trick Room Shuckle is overrated. It *can* be good, but it only has two turns to attack. Assuming your opponent switches on the turn you Power Trick (best case scenario) you need to predict perfectly. Bronzong comletely walls it.

Once your opponent figures out your plan, they will likely attack it outright on its next attack, OHKOing you except for your Sash which was likely killed off by Stealth Rocks that everyone uses.

Shuckle is really cool, but requires so much set up most of the time you'd be better off with a Choice Band Rampardos...
 
The problem is there's oh-so-little that can actually take a hit or two from Shuckle though, especially late game. Assuming they predict the Power Trick, anything that's not as bulky as Bronzong is risking massive damage from Gyro Ball (keep in mind since Shuckle has like 10 Speed, it reaches 150 FAST) or Rock Slide. Oh yeah, flinch rate anyone?

But really, he's awesome. Like, for real. Try it before you knock it.
 
The problem is there's oh-so-little that can actually take a hit or two from Shuckle though, especially late game. Assuming they predict the Power Trick, anything that's not as bulky as Bronzong is risking massive damage from Gyro Ball (keep in mind since Shuckle has like 10 Speed, it reaches 150 FAST) or Rock Slide. Oh yeah, flinch rate anyone?

But really, he's awesome. Like, for real. Try it before you knock it.

Although its by no means "predictable" if I saw a Shuckle in a Trick Room with 100% of its HP, i'd assume the worst that its a Power Trick.

On the other hand, it sure as hell can set up on Gengars / etc in the sand.

The problem is getting it in during Trick Room. Since its SD is left intact after Power Trick you could even remove Focus Sash for Life Orb or Leftovers and actually switch Shuckle in on things.

Now that I think about it, Power Trick Shuckle is perfectly viable to use, but only if a team is built around it.

You should do some damage calculations to prove it can compare to Marowak or Clamperl.

600+ attack is impressive, but Choice Band Metagross can get that and he's still walled.
 
You don't have to be a slow user to use Trick Room yourself. Celebi is fine at 236 using Trick Room. So what if Blissey outspeeds you now? You're still going to Leech Seed it regardless. As for Hippowdon/Swampert? Yeah, you're still going to win. It doesn't really matter since you're still outspeed a shitload of things out there. If you face an offensive team, you're going to be happy as hell to have your 'average' speed Pokes faster. If you face a stall team, it's not like it's moving first to destroy you.
 
Since he hasn't been mentioned once in this thread yet... Snorlax is always a worthy addition to a TR team!

I tried Guts Ursaring on a TR team as well, he did a great job with swords dance and all, but IMO Rhyperior does it better with more bulk.
 
On that note, that means Uxie, Celebi, Jirachi, Mr. Mime and the like all REQUIRE Macho Brace.
Nonono. I would actually run a couple of speed EVs on any of those if you're running some sort of TR set, since all of those are naturally fast. This way, you Trick Room, and then you can U-Turn out last during the Trick Room since your bulky Trick Roomer will have taken the hit first, rather than your Clamperl, who can't really sweep when it has to come in on Gliscor's Knock Off which would pretty much make it useless.

You don't have to be slow as dirt to have a Trick Room team.
 
Well I guess if you're doing the whole Trickturn stuff going fast (slow) makes sense (kinda like Relaxed/Sassy Umbreon in normal), but I usually find it's better to go faster than the things that would otherwise wall you to make it harder for them to like stall you. Plus since your big sweep dudes are gonig to be slow, they'll have some HP EVs, and since you should have more than one switch ready after a TR (on a full team at least) you can pick the one best for the situation.
 
Now that I think about it, Power Trick Shuckle is perfectly viable to use, but only if a team is built around it.

It was a lot less predictable in January when I ran a Shuckle team. Keep in mind that's 600 or so attack before item, so Life Orb is boosting it to the equivalent of 850 or so. Plus with Sand everywhere (you don't necessarily need to BYO sandstream, I didn't) setting up is easy. Hell, if you have balls you can switch in on a Blissey Seismic Toss with Gluttony and a Liechi, Power Trick right away as Bliss hopefully STs you, activating your Liechi... though that's just dumb.

I'll get calcs like right now. Metalkid's calc doesn't have Power Trick support, so I'm running em on my homebrew.

Shuckle Life Orb Gyro Ball (or Stone Edge)on standard Modest Cresselia:
195-230 damage, 50.5%-59.6% often 2HKO.

Shuckle Life Orb STAB Stone Edge on standard Impish Gliscor:
172-204 damage, 48.6%-57.6% not enough. Kill before sweep (duh).

Shuckle Life Orb Gyro Ball on 4 HP Garchomp:
292-344 damage, 81%-96.3% KOs with residual damage or Orb recoil.

Shuckle Life Orb Earthquake on 252 HP 0 Def Impish Steelix:
184-218 damage, 51.9%-61.8%

So he's too frail to be a wall-breaker, but easily powerful enough to clean up things after your wall breaker has broken stuff.
 
One problem with Shuckle is it has to set up. Things can go wrong, and unless you predict right both times Shuckle will pretty much waste his time. Bronzongs are very common, and Hippowdon will likely survive his hits too (Swords Danced Marowak EQ is a 2HKO, thats an attack stats over 1,000). Not that Hippowdon is common anymore.
 
Well yeah, Shuckle really puts the "late game" in "late game sweeper", as one should be eliminating as many physical-attacking walls as possible beforehand. I recommend Rshyperior. When you TR the first time most people will either not know what to think or (as of now) go Bliss for Clamperl.
 
Eh, Shuckle doesn't even 2HKO any of the bulkier walls, and most of them have recovery. Plus, the only way you're going to get off a Power Trick is with Encore Support, or BPing a Sub.
 
Shuckle uses Power Trick and gets 614 Attack and becomes the frailest Pokemon ever (you'll envy Deoxys-A's walling abilities) in terms of physical attacks. You have STAB on Rock.

Rhyperior uses Swords Dance and gets 832 Attack and remains one of the most physically bulky Pokemon. You have STAB on Rock and Ground, and you actually have other move options in Megahorn, Fire Punch, and Ice Fang.

Which would you rather use? (assuming you decide to use Trick Room with a set-up Pokemon, which I think is incredibly foolish, because that will give you 2 turns of actual attacking)
 
Though your right Obi, I find any form of set up once the Trick Room has been set up counter intuative because you simply don't have the time.

from the tr thread in c&c
Machamp is great in Trick Room. Firstly, Trick Room teams tend to have a huge weakness to Pokemon such as CB Tyranitar coming in and Crunching everything to death SE. Machamp can come in on that with its Dark resistance and either scare it off or OHKO it.

Secondly, a bit more on Machamp: Base 130 Attack, base 50 speed. That makes it obvious for Trick Room, but moreso because of its (rather unappreciated) ability, Guts. If you stick Machamp with a Burn / Toxic Orb in the room of tricks, you've got a very powerful physical sweeper that requires no set up, which would otherwise be counter-intuative since you're effectively on a timer. With Ice Punch / ThunderPunch / Close Combat / Stone Edge running off a 591 Attack, you've got a powerhouse.
Ursaring too
 
i brushed off my TR team last night, put in clamperl and i admit now there is one pokmeon i do have there that breaks the speed rule and thats mr mime, coverage of gengar is always good and a BP out of there with some clam minds when TR fades to something quick (porygon-z? starmie?) might be something to look at.
and by no means dismiss ryperior that thing is a powerhouse in trick room
 
In my opinion, having all your Pokes being slower than continental drift on a Trick Room team is sort of like having all rock/ground/steel stypes on a Sand Stream team. It'll be cool at first, but if the weather (or the Trick Room status) changes, you'll be left with a gaping weakness and little chance of winning.
 
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