Lets actually talk about Mew in OU...

[Forsety]

What's Mew got over Gengar? I'd say superior defenses but weaker resistances go along with the pure-psychic typing. I think that if you were to ignore Baton Pass and compare Mew to other Pokemon, you'd find that there are generally better alternatives.

I think that if we were to ignore Swords Dance and compare Garchomp to other Pokemon, you'd find that there are generally better alternatives.

I think that if we were to ignore Dragon Dance and compare Gyarados to other Pokemon, you'd find that there are generally better alternatives.

It is kind of hard to selectively ignore a move which is the practically the trump card of the subject in question...

Mew can and will use Baton Pass and its damn good at it, if not the best there is. The second it passes off that +2 NP to something like Salamence with its STAB Draco Meteor. You are looking at virtually 2 instant dead Pokemon, almost guaranteed. 3 if you're lucky enough and all that is only one option.

I think another important thing here needs to be stressed very clearly. Strategies have to adapt and to do that you need options and availability. In the case of Mew, it can do hundred's of roles yet it only ever does one thing. Yet despite this, it does that one task so well its near uncounterable even if you know its coming.

Its the same principles behind things like Specsmence or practically all the Ubers in general. It doesn't matter if you know its coming, you still can't stop it happening. At best all can be managed is damage control, lessening the impact of the blow. BP Mew is like that in even if you try to counter it, you just can't reliably because its too well rounded.

There is something infinitely more broken and dangerous about something which can do anything it likes. Yet chooses to do only one thing because it is still superior.

 

[Deck Knight]

Mew is most lethal as a Baton Passer. It isn't just the fact it can pass +2 boosts in one stat, it can also pass either Bulk Up or Calm Mind. Useful Bulk-Up passers are incredibly rare. Floatzel can't take Thunderbolt to save itself and Blaziken/Medicham have mediocre speed and defenses.

Mew's strength can be summarized as follows:

Some pokemon, like Nidoking, are a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Mew is a master of all trades and a jack of none. It even has 101 HP Subs if you want it to...

Nothing stops you from having a Jolly Bulk Up/Brick Break/Shadow Claw/Baton Pass set that works perfectly fine, for instance.

 

[BlueCookies]

I don't think Mew is as dangerous as people are thinking he is. I may be wrong because this is all theorymon, Mew really wants taunt, to stop Phazers, status, and the other things taunt stops. He needs hypnosis, the stat up move, and and of course baton Pass. Then he's weak to taunt because he has no attacking moves, and if he forgoes taunt for an attacking move, he is screwed by Skarmory, etc.

There are other Pokemon as bulky as Mew who can pass +2 stats. Togekiss, Gliscor, Zapdos, and others can all do it. People seem to be really overestimating the fact that Mew learns every tm. like Mekkah said, not all of them are good, and for some of them, other Pokemon use those attacks better. the useful tm's he learns, a lot of other Pokemon can learn too. It just really isn't Uber in my oppinion and I think he and Deoxys are the two who are farthest from being Uber.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Mew really suffers from four-moveslot syndrome. So many good move, so little room. Who doesn't like a good healing move? Softboiled is loved. So is sleep-inducing, Hypnosis. But wait, Mew is the Baton Passing master? Need to have that. What about a stat upper? Gotta have something to Baton Pass after all. Oh, but what about Phazers and Hazers? Taunt!!! Ugh, but now we don't have a good attacking move. Better use Psychic. But now Tyranitar owns Mew even more. Oh well, Grass Knot should solve most of that.

See what I mean? Just because Mew has a shitload of moves to pick from, it can only take four. A shocker at first (like Gengar), but as the game goes on you'll know what Mew is up to and chances are, be able to counter it.

 

[bullfrogegg8]

By the way, did everyone forget semi-uber! It is a great idea when you think about. The jump from UU to OU is like the jump from OU to Uber. It is way too big. Lets say you take the low Ubers like the latis without soul dew, mew, Ho-oh, wobbufet, and deoxys defense. The you take the high ubers such as garchomp, blissey, and t-tar. Now put them in semi-uber. You get a new tier, new sets to be made, and a new metagame to try out that some people may find very enjoyable.

 

[kamikaen]

Mew is not weak to Taunt, as he carries Taunt, himself (and he's fast enough to be able to Taunt other Taunters). And it doesn't "need" Hypnosis. If you say he can't cram all of his amazing options into one set, you're right, but switching into Mew is really dangerous. It's like Lucario (but worse). IT can attack physically, specially, stat up, and additionally, it can Baton Pass, Taunt, and status, all with bulky defenses and a healing move. So, perhaps Azelf can NP sweep slightly better (even that's debatable, since people might prefer Mew's better defenses), and Ninjask might even be able to pass speed better, but Mew does all of this rolled into one, which is extremely dangerous. It's all but unrivaled as a Taunting BPer (Gliscor and Floatzel are the only others, iirc). I'd use it even if it didn't have Taunt over most of the others, simply for the unpredictability it offers. Testing it still might be fun, but I'm quite sure that Mew will remain uber.

@Familiar Trainer: It doesn't matter if Mew can't do everything at once. He's unpredictable at first, and that makes him extremely dangerous (and don't even bother comparing him to Gengar, Mew can do so much more than status, sweep, and Explode), and in the later game, it's just like Forsety said; you know what he does, but you can't do anything about it.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Just posting to say that the OP forgot a pretty important Mew move in Softboiled.

By the way, did everyone forget semi-uber! It is a great idea when you think about. The jump from UU to OU is like the jump from OU to Uber. It is way too big. Lets say you take the low Ubers like the latis without soul dew, mew, Ho-oh, wobbufet, and deoxys defense. The you take the high ubers such as garchomp, blissey, and t-tar. Now put them in semi-uber. You get a new tier, new sets to be made, and a new metagame to try out that some people may find very enjoyable.

This won't solve anything. Even if any of this were true, making a new tier is far too complicated since you would have to sell it to an overwhelming majority of the competitive battling community...the same community that normally values making rules simpler and easier to understand.

 

[Lee]

Then he's weak to taunt because he has no attacking moves,

The problem with that is that Mew is one of the fastest Taunters around. The only Taunters who can beat him to the punch are Deoxys, Weavile, Gengar, Infernape, Alakazam, Crobat, Floatzel etc...note that most of these are either too frail, weak to Mew's STAB attack should he decide to pack Psychic or they really can't afford to give up a moveslot for Taunt. I guess Deoxys-S and Mismagius are the best counters to a BP Mew due to their superior speed, tolerable defences and Taunt.

Mew can do soooo much more than just Baton Pass too. The Nasty Plot/Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball/Taunt or Sub set seems particularly fearsome despite the lack of STAB and Mew always has the option to throw Explosion on any given set to all but ensure a KO. It's easy to say "Well, he's an inferior choice to [insert name of top OU poke] in those roles" but unpredictability should never be discounted; when Mew comes out you have quite literally no idea what he's going to do and he's quite capable of using that turn of uncertainty to do some serious damage. To quote the analysis:

If I were paid for all of Mew's movesets, I wouldn't be able to spend it all in a hundred lifetimes.

There is no single, undeniable counter to Mew. You have to figure out which one of its infinite list of sets it's using before you can conceivably counter it. And be careful—Mew can Hypnosis its counters.

I'd be more willing to test if he didn't get Hypnosis, but that's really hitting me as the straw that broke the camel's back.

EDIT;

Just because this bugged me:

Gengar can kill Mew with Shadow Ball easily.

Modest 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs 252/0 Mew = 72.03% - 84.90%

Tyranitar OHKOs Mew with Crunch or a fleeing Mew with Pursuit.

Adamant 252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs 252/0 Mew = 73.76% - 86.63%

You'd need CB (Mew can survive LO Crunch) but this argument is irrelevant anyway...Mew outspeeds Tyranitar with minimal EV investment and can BP to safety, leaving you Pursuiting the incoming Lucario or w/e. Also, don't assume that Mew will never pack Aura Sphere.

Weavile is my favorite as it can easily Pursuit Mew as well as Night Slash it. It also outspeeds Mew. And it holds taunt which will shut Mew down completely

Jolly 252 Atk CHOICE BAND Night Slash vs 252/0 Mew = 81.19% - 95.54%

Mew's a tough little cookie.

Pokemon with Taunt will stop the Baton Pass Mew. Pokemon with Sub or Imnosia (Honchkrow) can also easily beat Mew.

Most of the time, Mew will be faster than the opposing Taunter as mentioned earlier. Honchkrow is gonna have egg on his face if he switches in to anything other than Hypnosis or Psychic and even then, he'll be Pursuiting thin air whilst Mew Baton Passes to safety.

 

[Ambitions]

As far as I am concerned, Mew is uber because of its baton passing skills. It can pass

Bulk Up
Calm Mind
Amnisia
Nasty Plots
Swords Dance
Rock Ploish
101 Hp Subs

Basically. Its a dream passer. It can pass every single stat be hind a 101 sub including +2 boosts of Att, Sp Att, Sp Def, and Spd. Is it a shitty Uber? Yes. Is it uber? Yes.

EDIT: We need to test Latios and Lati@s out first and just ban the soul Dew item to ubers.

 

[Resist]

One thing going for Mew is that it would be the only Sleep+Nasty Plot Baton Passer, making it better than Togekiss in a sense, and being faster too.

If we were to remove Mew's Hypnosis, perhaps this set might work:

Mew: @ Focus Sash
252 HP / 36 Special Attack / 236 Speed

Thunderbolt
Nasty Plot
Baton Pass
Aura Sphere


With Aura Sphere you prevent Tyranitar/Weavile's Taunts from ending Mew's flow (Sometimes Tyranitars pack both Taunt and Pursuit to stop Baton Pass and cause switches), while Thunderbolt stops Gyarados/Crobat. Focus Sash is if they decide to Night Slash/Crunch you as you Baton Pass out.

 

[maddog]

I think Mew is way too powerful of a Pokemon for OU. It can run pretty much any set it wants to, fill any role it needs to. It is a bulky Baton Passer, and has access to Taunt, Softboiled and can pass +2 of any stat it wants, and can also pass Bulk Up and Calm Mind. It can be a strong physical or special sweeper, and there is no way of telling which one it could be until you switch it. It gets the Fighting/ Ghost combination in both physical or special. And you may say: "Well we can just use Tar/ Weavile/ Gengar to stop it". First of all, Tar would not work; I can just pass out, or kill it with a +2 Aura Sphere/ Brick Break, or I will have a 101 Sub up. So now Weavile is the only "counter", and even then I can either predict your switch, or I could have a Sub up, or I could have just Rock Polished, and be able to safely pass away. Not to mention, I could just sleep/ burn/ whatever your counter, and you would be at my mercy. And you would not have a clue what I would do to you until you switched in. And if you guessed wrong, I get my pass off/ set up. It's just that simple. Mew is not OU material.

 

[Ambitions]

Hypnosis is a special move. Its going to be removed from shoddy in no time and no one will use it in WiFi. There is no need to even consider it really.

 

[Tangerine]

I'm sort of irked at the arguments that "all mew can do is Baton Pass". Really?

Mew can easily take over everything Mesprit was doing... and do it better in fact. Mesprit is a half decent mixape/garchomp/gyarados counter, and now Mew comes along, with a solid recovery move, and much better speed and better defenses (20 base HP > 5 base Def/SpD), and being able to KO TTar with Aura Sphere if it cared enough.

A Mew, once nasty plotted, isn't going to be taken down as easily as Azelf, since Mew has a lot better defenses and a much better movepool. Or it can not choose to nasty plot at all, it could Sword Dance, Bulk up, or agility...
etc.

You can't compare Mew with Smeargle since the only reason anyone would use Smeargle is to Spore or pass Ingrain, or some gimmick sets. Even if Smeargle is unpredictable, it is stopped easily. Mew, despite not having Spore, is unpredictable, and it's pretty damn hard to take down once it set up and starts sweeping. Or it could choose not to sweep at all as it passes its BP to something else. At least with Garchomp, we have a general idea on what it's going to do and what it CAN do, with mew, the possibilities are pretty damn insane. Oh, and you want to try walling it? Sorry, It turns out it had Taunt and now it gets another free turn. Thinking of Sacrificing something so you could kill it? Sorry, it turns out it had Baton Pass! Wanna come in and Taunt it so it can't BP? Sorry, now it's dead since it was actually one that is attempting to sweep!

Four Move syndrome means NOTHING since you have more than Mew in your team. Mew can fit into nearly any team since it's able to do nearly any role (It can't set up spikes I guess), and you will be designing your mew set so that it fits in with your team. Sure it can't do EVERYTHING at once but the very idea that it *can* do nearly damn everything is what i'm afraid of. We already have people complaining how Wobby takes the prediction out of the game and makes it unfun, now you want to add another Random factor in?

Hypnosis is a special move. Its going to be removed from shoddy in no time and no one will use it in WiFi. There is no need to even consider it really.

No, Hypnosis is an XD Tutor Move, and a Pokemon Ranch Move.

 

[OGsloane]

yea mew is just too diverse a pokemon for OU. Its stats are pretty good too. Its unpredictability is what takes it out of OU. It can do anything. I dont know whats so hard to understand.

 

[Ambitions]

Thanks for....backing me up Tangerine? Ok, Hypnosis is a less special move, but still special cuz it can't be learned in D/P or advanced if that sounds better.

Ether way its getting taken off shoddy and you don't see many floating around Wifi. Mew can do alot, I think most people here are just realizing how broken it is mainly because of its Baton Passing skills and its the topic of discussion ATM.

EDIT: I still think we should test it though. I mean why the hell not? All the giber gaber we talk about (ex for damage calcs) is basically therymon. The best way to get an idea if its capability's is by using it in OU.

 

[Tangerine]

Thanks for....backing me up Tangerine? Ok, Hypnosis is a less special move, but still special cuz it can't be learned in D/P or advanced if that sounds better.

Ether way its getting taken off shoddy and you don't see many floating around Wifi. Mew can do alot, I think most people here are just realizing how broken it is mainly because of its Baton Passing skills and its the topic of discussion ATM.

EDIT: I still think we should test it though. I mean why the hell not? All the giber gaber we talk about (ex for damage calcs) is basically therymon. The best way to get an idea if its capability's is by using it in OU.

There was no talk on banning XD moves on Shoddy so I dont see why Hypnosis will ever be banned. It's not an event move. You could actually read the thread where people were discussing it.

 

[Go2Sleep02]

Hmm prehaps we can do some testing with Mew such as ban a couple of its moves such as Batton Pass and mabye Hypnosis.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Hmm prehaps we can do some testing with Mew such as ban a couple of its moves such as Batton Pass and mabye Hypnosis.

The whole "banning X move on Pokemon Y" approach is the EXACT type of complex ruling that the people in charge want to avoid. And rightfully so.

 

[Ambitions]

I was just stating what I herd in that shoddy chat room thing when some one asked about banning wish on bliss and tickle on wob, this discussion doesn't really belong in this thread anyway.

I never said the move event just special. But you are right when it comes to that fact that hypnosis wouldn't be banned any way since its an XD move.

So we are both wrong and right hooray!

 

[BlueCookies]

You are right about Mew's unpredictability, but once you see 1 or 2 moves, you can figure out how to stop it/the bp recipeant. T-Tar and Lucario are also extremely unpredictable, even more so than Mew imo, and T-Tar is also pretty bulky, and both are ou. It really does suffer from 4 moveslot syndrome.

 

[Aquilae]

I feel that Mew should stay in Ubers because of its versatility and unpredictability, backed up by decent stats.

There is almost no reliable switchin to Mew, either it would be a wall, which isn't a good switchin in the first place since it would be done in by Taunt, a Taunter, sans DeoE and Mismagius, there are no Taunters fast enough to stop Mew from BPing, and both of them could be KOed by a sweeping set. A PHazer would be stopped by Taunt.

Really, the major factors that makes Mew uber is Taunt, Nasty Plot/Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Calm Mind/Rock Polish/Barrier/Amnesia and Baton Pass, coupled with the 100/100/100 defenses (101 subs), and the great attacking movepool. This makes it very hard to predict which set Mew is running, Taunt and Baton Pass stop Status, Haze/PHazing, Healing and Pursuit, letting Mew do whatever it wants against a non-sweeper. Against a sweeper Baton Pass would allow for a quick escape.

Mew's attacking movepool:

Explosion
Focus Punch
Focus Blast
Fire Blast
Return
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Flamethrower
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Surf
Dragon Pulse
Psychic
Aura Sphere
Body Slam
Shadow Ball
Dark Pulse
Dragon Claw
X-Scissor
Waterfall
Ice Punch
Thunderpunch
Fire Punch
Facade
U-turn
Drain Punch
Charge Beam
Grass Knot
Seismic Toss

Mew can also set up Stealth Rocks and Trick Room.
It also can psuedopass Reflect, Light Screen and Safeguard.
Mew also can afflict three kinds of status with Thunder Wave, Hypnosis and Will-O-Wisp.
Mew learns Sleep Talk, which allows it to absorb Sleep.
Mew has two healing moves in Softboiled and Roost.

This shows the unpredictability of Mew, it can run a set to counter threats, it can be a Baton Passer, a wall, a spiker (Stealth Rock), a Psuedopasser, a Trick Room setupper (slow Baton Pass allows sweepers to get in easily),a status absorber, an unpredictable attacker...

I am for the testing of Mew in OU, but I strongly feel it should remain in Ubers.

 

[wDro]

Mew is probably too good for overused but not good enough for ubers. But testing it would be interesting and fun.

 

[animenagai]

Mew really suffers from four-moveslot syndrome. So many good move, so little room. Who doesn't like a good healing move? Softboiled is loved. So is sleep-inducing, Hypnosis. But wait, Mew is the Baton Passing master? Need to have that. What about a stat upper? Gotta have something to Baton Pass after all. Oh, but what about Phazers and Hazers? Taunt!!! Ugh, but now we don't have a good attacking move. Better use Psychic. But now Tyranitar owns Mew even more. Oh well, Grass Knot should solve most of that.

See what I mean? Just because Mew has a shitload of moves to pick from, it can only take four. A shocker at first (like Gengar), but as the game goes on you'll know what Mew is up to and chances are, be able to counter it.

that doesn't limit mew's prowess imo. as any poke with such versatility is just so difficult to predict. what you bring in to counter a BP set would be very different from your counter for a sweeper set. NP sweeper? sub CM? what about something with BP, nasty plot + 2 special attacks? want to roar with swampert? why would you bring that in if it can carry grass knot? i love that little thing but it's too strong for OU imo.

 

[Bologo]

Guys, don't forget about Transformer Mew.

Honestly, the Transformer is an extremely deadly Mew set because unlike Ditto and Smeargle, it actually has the defenses to pull it off.

Don't forget that Transform copies stat boosts too. Also, the fact that it keeps the same max HP after Transforming is crucial too.

Let's say that you switch into something like Dusknoir who has extreme defenses, but terrible HP. You transform into it, but you keep your 100 base HP, making you extremely hard to break. This scenario is even more amplified if you Transform into something such as Shuckle.

Imagine fighting an Azelf that just got itself a Nasty Plot. Then Mew Transforms into it, and has the +2 boost, but isn't frail like the opposing Azelf because it has 100 base HP under its belt.

There's also the fact that it copies the Transformed foe's ability.

The most extreme example of taking advantage of that would be Transforming into Shedinja and taking Wonder Guard with it, which is a tactic that can dominate in 2v2 play if Mew is allowed.

Also, remember that Mew's prior EVs don't even matter, so it doesn't even need to invest in Attack/Special Attack EVs, because it just steals its Transform recipient's EVs/IVs. This means it can be as bulky/fast as it needs.

The Transformer can be just as deadly as the BPing set, although much more situational, however, I do remember that in one of the tournaments where Mew was allowed in ADV, Transformer Mew had to be banned because it was just simply too good.

I personally don't care where Mew ends up, I'm just saying to take Transform into consideration.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

that doesn't limit mew's prowess imo. as any poke with such versatility is just so difficult to predict. what you bring in to counter a BP set would be very different from your counter for a sweeper set. NP sweeper? sub CM? what about something with BP, nasty plot + 2 special attacks? want to roar with swampert? why would you bring that in if it can carry grass knot? i love that little thing but it's too strong for OU imo.

Sort of like how you bring in a different thing to counter Choice Mence compared to Specs Mence.

Mew is quite different from Salamence, but they do carry one thing in common - they can both carry only four moves. Mew is that wild-card in battles. It's basically a customizable little bugger. A bigger Mesprit (without that coveted Levitate however, so remember that Garchomp Earthquakes are still going to severely hurt). But still, Pokemon isn't chess. Things shouldn't be set in stone constantly. Deoxys-S is just as bad of an idea as Mew is from my point of Mew. So why not give Mew a test, perhaps in a tournament?

D/P is far too large to be able to counter every Pokemon, I'm pretty sure that was established at the start. Having a certain strategy and executing it is what usually wins battles anyway.

The most extreme example of taking advantage of that would be Transforming into Shedinja and taking Wonder Guard with it, which is a tactic that can dominate in 2v2 play if Mew is allowed.

Ditto and Smeargle can do that too, although the chances of seeing both Ditto/Transformer Smeargle and Shedinja in the same battle alone ha extremely low odds of happening, and Shedinja staying in on Ditto even less so. Transformer Mew does look pretty dangerous. Of course, you still waste a turn transforming. In Netbattle though (if this was where that tourny took place), wasn't there a glitch where the transformer turned into the opposing Pokemon, along with totally maxed out stats (+Nature, 252 EV in everything)? I don't think that happens in D/P.