Melee > Brawl Thread

[Hans]

So I have been playing SSB throughout all of the games. SSB64 was pretty good, a good game for its time, but I wasn't really into competitive gaming then.

Melee was great; amazing in fact. My friends and I played Melee throughout its six year reign and it was

I learned all of the advanced techniques easily by lurking around at Smashboards, picked up Luigi, and went on to do fairly well at various tournaments under the name Glutin. Melee was/is probably my favorite game ever.

When I heard about the new Super Smash Brothers, entitled Super Smash Brothers Brawl (SSBB), I was excited. Really excited. My friends and I got so hyped up for it. Sucked a lot that it got delayed so many times, but I was hoping that when March 9th finally came around, it would be worth it.

And it was, at least at first. Brawl seemed pretty fun. I played it for a couple weeks, and then it hit me one afternoon as I was playing with one of my crew members.

Silence. You could just hear the sound of buttons being pressed and control sticks being pushed around. Then all of a sudden, I say,

"Hey...I just realized something. Brawl sucks"
"Yeah...."

So since then we've gone back to Melee and have been enjoying it thoroughly. After looking on Smashboards i've found that many top pros such as Gimpyfish, DaShizWiz, and Zhu (Just to name a FEW) have gone back to Melee as well.

In my opinion, Brawl is just not a very good fighting game. Here are the things that I think is wrong with Brawl:
• It is way too defensive. Most of the options added in the game are more things you can do to protect yourself from being hit. You can essentially airdodge/spotdodge the majority of the match and avoid being hit almost completely. This makes for a much slower-paced metagame that encourages camping.
• You can't combo. Lack of hitstun in Brawl makes it to where you can hardly combo at ALL. At very low percentages, you might be able to pull off a 2-3 hit string of attacks that the opponent can't escape from, but that's about it. Most successful fighting games include the ability to combo your opponent.
• Floaty as hell. This goes along with the slow-paced thing.
• Tripping. I know it's overrated but come on. It's COMPLETELY RANDOM. I used to think that dashdancing caused you to trip, and tripping was put in the game to stop dashdancing from being possible. But no. It's 100% random. Arbitrarily tripping while running could easily cost you a stock, if not a match, if not a tournament.


Does anybody agree with me? It's discouraging how few Melee tournaments there are out there, it's nigh impossible to find one near you.

This is all I've got for now, I may post more when I have the chance.

 

[sandman]

Although i still like brawl, they really should have kept the hit stun from melee. It was so much more fun.

 

[Wolt]

I agree with you on some points, but it should really boil down to...why not just play both? You might like Melee better and other people will disagree, but you might as well just say Melee is for the really competitive and Brawl is more of a party game, even though they both accomplish the same things.

 

[Hans]

I don't play both because I don't find Brawl fun anymore after going back and playing Melee avidly for a while. I guess if you like party games, if you like playing four player ffa's with all items on, then you can play Brawl, but that's not what i'm talking about.

 

[Zangy]

You may have a hit from the nostalgia bug. Treat them as different games. Melee is better than brawl and some things. Brawl is better than Melee at things. Neither is inherently better or worse than the other. Don't try to make one into the other, because it won't fit.

 

[Llama]

My brother brought up the "Melee is better" argument, but here is one of the major factors, sure somethings are different, the way I see it is him and I have been playing Melee for 6 years, and brawl for 1/2 year. We are more used to Melee, but play Brawl for a while and the changes will turn into the norm.

Still I play all three games, and I can see the insanely competitive players would want to go back, because its what they are used to.

 

[Steeler]

sometimes i wonder if melee were like brawl and brawl like melee, would we still have complaints?

 

[Mr Escalator]

I like Brawl a lot better. I feel it's a better game in general. I still don't know, however, if I think it has as much competitive potential yet. I'm on the fence, and leaning towards it having similar potential.

Honestly, I think most people are having difficulty adapting to a whole new game. Melee was around for such a long time, and many spent a looot of time into it. I had fun throughout melee's lifetime, but I'm having more fun with Brawl.

And I can take play serious, so don't think I'm just a casual throwing in my voice. I see a lot of potential for the metagame. camping doesnt seem as dominant now. I play a lot of players who don't camp, and definitely have skill. There are, like YoshiKing, those who do camp and still have a lot of skill, and I respect them.

I personally don't mind for the lack of hitstun. I wasn't an overly technical player, but I still managed to do above average against those who were ripping up their controllers with combos. Now, I'm doing much better because I can think through and predict what they plan to do. It's one of the main reasons I like competitive Pokemon, to be honest. Strategy.

I like to bait attacks, but I don't camp to do this.
Camping may die down eventually.

 

[Hans]

Alright. Here are some of the arguments I thought would come up. Let me address them.

You may have a hit from the nostalgia bug. Treat them as different games. Melee is better than brawl and some things. Brawl is better than Melee at things. Neither is inherently better or worse than the other. Don't try to make one into the other, because it won't fit.

The "Stop wishing Brawl was Melee 2.0" argument. When Brawl came out, I wasn't expecting it to be really anything like Melee. I was expecting it to be a new game. As far as generic fighting game guide lines go, I don't see how Brawl has anything over Melee besides having more characters, more stages, and the ability to change your control shit around.

My brother brought up the "Melee is better" argument, but here is one of the major factors, sure somethings are different, the way I see it is him and I have been playing Melee for 6 years, and brawl for 1/2 year. We are more used to Melee, but play Brawl for a while and the changes will turn into the norm.

Still I play all three games, and I can see the insanely competitive players would want to go back, because its what they are used to.

Pretty much the same thing as above. I have played Brawl since it came out. True, I played it more avidly at first until I went back to Melee, but I still play it occasionally. The changes will not turn into the norm. The game is completely different from Melee, so much slower, floatier, and campier. The physics of Brawl aren't going to magically "turn into" Melee physics.

sometimes i wonder if melee were like brawl and brawl like melee, would we still have complaints?

Er they would be the exact same game? I don't get it.

I like Brawl a lot better. I feel it's a better game in general. I still don't know, however, if I think it has as much competitive potential yet. I'm on the fence, and leaning towards it having similar potential.

Honestly, I think most people are having difficulty adapting to a whole new game. Melee was around for such a long time, and many spent a looot of time into it. I had fun throughout melee's lifetime, but I'm having more fun with Brawl.

And I can take play serious, so don't think I'm just a casual throwing in my voice. I see a lot of potential for the metagame. camping doesnt seem as dominant now. I play a lot of players who don't camp, and definitely have skill. There are, like YoshiKing, those who do camp and still have a lot of skill, and I respect them.

I personally don't mind for the lack of hitstun. I wasn't an overly technical player, but I still managed to do above average against those who were ripping up their controllers with combos. Now, I'm doing much better because I can think through and predict what they plan to do. It's one of the main reasons I like competitive Pokemon, to be honest. Strategy.

I like to bait attacks, but I don't camp to do this.
Camping may die down eventually.

Thank you for your response. However, let me tell you why I don't think Brawl will be near as competitive as Melee was.

First off, don't automatically label me as a person who just plays Melee because of Wavedashing and L-canceling. Nowwwwwww, Brawl really doesn't have any advanced techniques (ATs for those who aren't familiar). ATs in Melee made the game faster-paced, more aggressive, more combo-oriented, more competitive, and generally just more fun.

A common argument to this statement is

"Well it took a long time for Melee players to find the ATs they use today. How do you know someone won't find an AT for Brawl that will make it much faster paced?"
This really is only halfway true anyways. Wavedashing was actually found not too long after the game came out, but people dubbed it useless until later on when it became integrated into almost everyone's gameplay. However, Melee really didn't have many people trying to find ATs at its launch. There were a few people who knew about Z-cancelling in SSB64, but that was about it. Now at Brawl's launch, there were people all over the world looking for ATs both similar and different than Melee ATs.

What has been found thus far? Glide tossing and Boost Smashing, big shit. By the way, I'm not really saying that you are claiming all of this but I just wanted to address it because someone else would probably bring it up.

I think camping will become even more dominant than it already is. Take Toon Link for example. One of the fastest running speeds in the game, and he has THREE projectiles. One could easily run away the whole match and spam projectiles while dodging your opponent's attacks. Other characters can spam REALLY well also.

Ok about the hitstun thing but that's pretty unusual. The majority of people enjoy comboing. You can still have strategy when being a combo king. It takes a lot of strategy to 1. set up a combo and 2. keep a combo rolling by following DI/techs and 3. punishing flubbed techs.

Also, about Brawl's metagame, I'd like to quote a nice post by Gimpyfish62 on Smashboards (if you don't know him, he's considered the best Bowser player in the world in Melee, able to compete against other top pros using the 3rd worst character in the game)

after experimenting and playing the game enough the conclusion I've come to about brawl is that it's progression will be backwards.

The game starts with decent combos and gimp kills, and the only reason they exist is because people haven't mastered the defensive options in the game, as the game progresses combos will become smaller and smaller, and gimp kills will nearly fade out of existence. That's just how the game is.

In most games the progression is the opposite, starting with smaller combos and the like and ending with more elaborate things.

This makes for an eventual overly stale simplified game that isn't exciting to watch in a competitive sense, and will eventually shorten the game's overall lifespan.

I think this makes a lot of sense logically.



Sorry if I came on as harsh in any of this, didn't mean to if I did. I have other stuff I can tell you (IE how Brawl is more unbalanced then Melee) but i'll wait till someone brings it up or asks.

 

[Dunk]

Could you explain how Brawl is more unbalanced than Melee (or vice versa)? I really have no opinion on the matter, it's just that I've seen the argument "One is more/less balanced than the other" far too often, and they almost never have explanations...

 

[Hans]

Sure. A lot of people think that Brawl is a better game because it is more balanced than Melee. This is not true.

Let me reveal to you the most broken character in the game (for those who don't know this):

Snake
Reasons why he is so much better than almost (we'll get to that in a minute) everyone on the cast:
• #1 reason: His broken forward and up tilts. They have extremely ridiculous, deceptive range. They can KO at the power of most characters' smash attacks and LOWER. Forward Tilt KOs at an average of about 100%. Up tilt is the same way, even more powerful though. They also have ridiculous priority. Now for some screenies from Smashboards highlighting their amazingly deceptive range.

These pictures are before the knockback comes in I believe

Forward Tilt

Up Tilt

• #2 reason: Really heavy character with a great recovery. Snake is one of the top three heaviest characters in the game. No jones. While most characters that are really heavy typically have a bad recovery (aside from DDD), Snake's is great. The beginning of the cypher is unflinching and it covers vast vertical and horizontal distances. Not only that, but if you're good you can plant a C4 on yourself while recovering to knock you upwards and let you use your Up-B twice.

• #3 reason: Good priority & damage on all of his moves. All of them. Even his jab, it has great priority. He has really hard-hitting moves like his fsmash and nair that do 30% and 21% respectively (guessing on fsmash but it has a shitload of knockback). But all of his shit does good dmg, not just those moves.

• #4 reason: Grenades. These things are way too good and versatile. You can cook them in your shield and wait for someone to attack you, and then they explode. This can stop people from chaingrabbing you, which is a big asset. You can time them so that you press B, shield to drop the grenade, hit your opponent with an aerial (while picking up the grenade) and them immediately throw the grenade at them to KO or rack up damage (yes they can KO). You can throw them at the stage before using your Up-B so that the opponent has trouble edgeguarding you. There's soooo many things you can do with nades, and I don't even really know that many because I don't play Snake.

• #5 reason: Upsmash. It's a projectile, and a good one that can be sent at different heights for edgeguarding and things. The best thing about it probably is that you can slide across the ground (roughly 1/2 of final destination) while using it, called either snake dashing, mortar dashing, or boost smashing. You can go back and forward hardly getting punished with this. It's pretty unpredictable if you don't spam it, and it is a really good way to get to the edge quickly to edgeguard.

#6 reason: Infinite chaingrab against the ledge. Down throw. Just try it.

#7 reason: C4 and Dsmash: Both are mines, remote detonated and proximity respectively. With the aid of occasionaly nades, these allow you perfect stage control. Good snakes (Watch Psychomidget) can trap their opponents with tactical maneuvers and knock them into C4s/Dsmash mines/Nade explosions.

I could go on but now I must talk about Metaknight, the other Top tier char.

Meta Knight
Wtf is lag? He has like no lag on any of his moves except some start-up lag during his forward smash. You can do like five fucking up airs in one shorthop or some shit like that. He is perhaps the only character in Brawl that can combo. Whorenado (neutral B), really high priority that you can get stuck in and does a lot of damage to you. REALLY easy gimp kills with his 5 jumps and dair. People say he has no killing power but his Up-B and Dsmash are ridiculous killing moves. He can gay ROB at like 40% with his Up-B....


G&W and DDD are also ridiculously good but I don't feel like writing up character summaries on them just yet

 

[Mr Escalator]

Snake
Reasons why he is so much better than almost (we'll get to that in a minute) everyone on the cast:
• #1 reason: His broken forward and up tilts. They have extremely ridiculous, deceptive range. They can KO at the power of most characters' smash attacks and LOWER. Forward Tilt KOs at an average of about 100%. Up tilt is the same way, even more powerful though. They also have ridiculous priority. Now for some screenies from Smashboards highlighting their amazingly deceptive range.

The tilts are only overpowered if you don't know how to shield >___>
I mean really.

• #2 reason: Really heavy character with a great recovery. Snake is one of the top three heaviest characters in the game. No jones. While most characters that are really heavy typically have a bad recovery (aside from DDD), Snake's is great. The beginning of the cypher is unflinching and it covers vast vertical and horizontal distances. Not only that, but if you're good you can plant a C4 on yourself while recovering to knock you upwards and let you use your Up-B twice.

Great recovery? It's pretty bad.
You can get spiked out of the cyper, and actually any strong hit will knock him out. Next, you can grab him anytime during his upB and he'll fall, not being able to up B again as long as you didnt grab attack him.

C4ing yourself is all fine and dandy, but the only time he really needs to use it is when he gets cyper grabbed or he's knocked too far/too low. If he's knocked to the point where he's forced to use it, he's probably going to have a lot of percent. The trouble with this is that if he blows it up on himself, he's going to die if he's at the right percent.

It's not the worst, but it's definitely not that great.

• #3 reason: Good priority & damage on all of his moves. All of them. Even his jab, it has great priority. He has really hard-hitting moves like his fsmash and nair that do 30% and 21% respectively (guessing on fsmash but it has a shitload of knockback). But all of his shit does good dmg, not just those moves.

Fsmash is awful, and Nair isn't too good.
If you ever get hit by the fsmash, then it's sort of sad.

• #4 reason: Grenades. These things are way too good and versatile. You can cook them in your shield and wait for someone to attack you, and then they explode. This can stop people from chaingrabbing you, which is a big asset. You can time them so that you press B, shield to drop the grenade, hit your opponent with an aerial (while picking up the grenade) and them immediately throw the grenade at them to KO or rack up damage (yes they can KO). You can throw them at the stage before using your Up-B so that the opponent has trouble edgeguarding you. There's soooo many things you can do with nades, and I don't even really know that many because I don't play Snake.

Nades are nice, but they don't do anything to stop anyone with better projectiles. Plus....

the omnigay :DDD

• #5 reason: Upsmash. It's a projectile, and a good one that can be sent at different heights for edgeguarding and things. The best thing about it probably is that you can slide across the ground (roughly 1/2 of final destination) while using it, called either snake dashing, mortar dashing, or boost smashing. You can go back and forward hardly getting punished with this. It's pretty unpredictable if you don't spam it, and it is a really good way to get to the edge quickly to edgeguard.

It's called Mortar Sliding :SSS
This is also a good technique, but it's not unpunishable.
And it's probably not that unpredictable either.

#6 reason: Infinite chaingrab against the ledge. Down throw. Just try it.

Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.

#7 reason: C4 and Dsmash: Both are mines, remote detonated and proximity respectively. With the aid of occasionaly nades, these allow you perfect stage control. Good snakes (Watch Psychomidget) can trap their opponents with tactical maneuvers and knock them into C4s/Dsmash mines/Nade explosions.

stage control is what snake's known for.

but

He's not broken. He's got plenty of bad matchups.
This is a bad excuse for how brawl is unbalanced.
Pretty bad.

I could go onto describing how Fox was broken against my Yoshi, but you'd bring up that someone like Taj could still wreck fox and falco's with his mewtwo. Same thing occurs here; Snake still gets beat as long as you're a competent. Sliq places well in tournies (which are riven with Snakes) with his Ganondorf.

And there are lots of AT's given the infancy of this game.
Glide Tossing, Boost Usmashing, B Reversal, Bsticking, Hyphen Smashing, Speed Hugging, Pivoting...

Just because there isnt something like Wavedashing or L-Cancelling doesn't mean there are few AT's. There are plenty.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164597

This is a different game.
I don't see why you brought this topic to smogon.
Leave it for smashboards.
Not many are going to argue with you, because you've already made up your mind. Many of us like both games, so an argument is very unhelpful.

 

[xc_hawk]

I knew this thread was gonna rear its ugly head soon enough... I'll go ahead and give my two cents.

To be completely honest, I sucked ass in melee. I could never get wavedashing down, and my friend would run circles around me. Brawl was like a godsend to me, I got a chance to start fresh and actually get pretty good.

As far as pure competition goes, it is unlikely that brawl will ever get to the point melee did. Everytime I stumble my way onto smashboards, I see my fair share of bitching and moaning. For them, its completely reasonable bitching and moaning, they miss the blinding speed of melee (among other things). However, from my point of view, brawl is exactly what I wanted it to be, slower and easier to approach (as a game, not actual approaches :P), with a bunch new stuff. From the position of someone not in the competitive scene, I think brawl is a much better game.

And hey, I get to play all of you guys in brawl (which I owe much of my experience to), so that's a big point in brawl's favor.

If you want my stereotypical position, its pro-brawl under the "if brawl sucks so bad, why not just play melee? We'll enjoy our game, you enjoy yours" argument. If this really becomes a large enough issue that the tournament scene recognizes as a whole, it will switch back.

 

[Hans]

The same can be said about any move in the game, that's garbage. "That move doesn't work if you know how to shield." Really stupid thing to say.

Great recovery? It's pretty bad.
You can get spiked out of the cyper, and actually any strong hit will knock him out. Next, you can grab him anytime during his upB and he'll fall, not being able to up B again as long as you didnt grab attack him.

C4ing yourself is all fine and dandy, but the only time he really needs to use it is when he gets cyper grabbed or he's knocked too far/too low. If he's knocked to the point where he's forced to use it, he's probably going to have a lot of percent. The trouble with this is that if he blows it up on himself, he's going to die if he's at the right percent.

It's not the worst, but it's definitely not that great.

A large part of his Up-B has super armor frames, meaning that you CAN'T get hit out of it and you CAN'T get spiked out of it. Yes, his cypher can get grabbed, big shit. Good snakes use it as soon as possible and when away form the stage so that they don't get grab gimped.

Fsmash is awful, and Nair isn't too good.
If you ever get hit by the fsmash, then it's sort of sad.

I was merely stating some of his moves that have higher damage. If you actually read what I said in that part of the post, you would realize that. Fsmash can work as edgeguarding and with mindgames anyways, though it is difficult to pull off.

Nades are nice, but they don't do anything to stop anyone with better projectiles. Plus....

the omnigay :DDD

I didn't say it was the best projectile in the game, I said it was versatile and pretty good.

Omnigay is situational

It's called Mortar Sliding :SSS
This is also a good technique, but it's not unpunishable.
And it's probably not that unpredictable either.

Whatever. So many names for it, it hardly matters. I said it was "hardly punishable" meaning it is difficult to punish because of how fast it is executed, but yes, it can be punished.

Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.
Doesn't work.

I actually didn't try this myself, so boo me. I just figured it worked because so many people posted threads on it and stuff. If it really doesn't work then my bad, lol.

but

Snake is broken. He has like 2 or 3 bad matchups, and even they are manageable if you are good.

I know Brawl has ATs. None of them are really that big of a deal though, and many of them are character situational.

I am disappointed at your attitude.

Sorry if I came on as harsh in any of this, didn't mean to if I did. I have other stuff I can tell you (IE how Brawl is more unbalanced then Melee) but i'll wait till someone brings it up or asks.

Did you read this? I don't know how you interpret it but to me, this and a tidbit in the first post means that I just wanted to see what you people thought about the subject of Melee > Brawl here at Smogon. I was not arguing, I was debating to see what kind of points could come up that I haven't heard before.




Oh yeah and read the Snake matchup guide on Smashboards when someone makes one. Even though I doubt they need to.

 

[Hans]

I knew this thread was gonna rear its ugly head soon enough... I'll go ahead and give my two cents.

To be completely honest, I sucked ass in melee. I could never get wavedashing down, and my friend would run circles around me. Brawl was like a godsend to me, I got a chance to start fresh and actually get pretty good.

As far as pure competition goes, it is unlikely that brawl will ever get to the point melee did. Everytime I stumble my way onto smashboards, I see my fair share of bitching and moaning. For them, its completely reasonable bitching and moaning, they miss the blinding speed of melee (among other things). However, from my point of view, brawl is exactly what I wanted it to be, slower and easier to approach (as a game, not actual approaches :P), with a bunch new stuff. From the position of someone not in the competitive scene, I think brawl is a much better game.

And hey, I get to play all of you guys in brawl (which I owe much of my experience to), so that's a big point in brawl's favor.

If you want my stereotypical position, its pro-brawl under the "if brawl sucks so bad, why not just play melee? We'll enjoy our game, you enjoy yours" argument. If this really becomes a large enough issue that the tournament scene recognizes as a whole, it will switch back.

Interesting point, thanks for your post. I realize that some people don't want to go back to Melee because Brawl is more user-friendly, and that's fine with me.

 

[Mr Escalator]

A large part of his Up-B has super armor frames, meaning that you CAN'T get hit out of it and you CAN'T get spiked out of it. Yes, his cypher can get grabbed, big shit. Good snakes use it as soon as possible and when away form the stage so that they don't get grab gimped.

Have you ever fucking played the game?
It's FAUX super armor.
He can get hit out at ANY point if the attack is has good knockback. G&W's fair and ANY spike come to mind.

I was merely stating some of his moves that have higher damage. If you actually read what I said in that part of the post, you would realize that. Fsmash can work as edgeguarding and with mindgames anyways, though it is difficult to pull off.

Damage means really little if the move is largely ineffective in a match.
Use something better as an example, because I don't care if a move does 999 if you can never hit the opponent with it. Hello, Ganon's Utilt.

I didn't say it was the best projectile in the game, I said it was versatile and pretty good.

Omnigay is situational

Im joking about the omnigay, genius.

Snake is broken. He has like 2 or 3 bad matchups, and even they are manageable if you are good.

He has Wolf, Olimar, ROB, Pikachu, DK, AND CAPTAIN FALCON.
Any matchup is manageable, but it's in the other characters favor. Not even Ness v Marth is completely hopeless for Ness. If the opponent is good, then what?

I know Brawl has ATs. None of them are really that big of a deal though, and many of them are character situational.

Uhh...
Wow.
None of them are as game changing as WavePlooping or LOLchancelling, but there are a lot, and there are plenty that arent character specific, or that many can perform. Saying they arent a big deal is incredibly stupid, and makes your melee bias ever so apparent.

I am disappointed at your attitude.

And I to yours.

Did you read this? I don't know how you interpret it but to me, this and a tidbit in the first post means that I just wanted to see what you people thought about the subject of Melee > Brawl here at Smogon. I was not arguing, I was debating to see what kind of points could come up that I haven't heard before.

Now thats just rude.
I have read your stuff.
The thing is, this "debate" turns into an argument very quick.
Almost everyone and there mothers have heard of every single point brought up in this kind of debate.

Hitstun is fine and still there.
And complaining about tripping is silly.

Oh yeah and read the Snake matchup guide on Smashboards when someone makes one. Even though I doubt they need to.

He has bad matchups. Snake isn't a god. Deal with it.

 

[Mexi-Kade]

Melee isn't Brawl. Brawl isn't Melee. Play whichever you prefer, or both, no one cares either way. Have your opinion, keep it to yourself unless it is asked for or necesarry; in this case neither. There is nothing wrong with defending a game you enjoy playing, but don't attack another game because you don't enjoy it.

I know Brawl has ATs. None of them are really that big of a deal though, and many of them are character situational.

Isn't the whole deal with Melee the fact that fox and Falco can do 0 to death combos? Seems kinda character situational don't ya think.

Meh. Just, why would anyone bother arguing this whole thing.

 

[Zangy]

The "Stop wishing Brawl was Melee 2.0" argument. When Brawl came out, I wasn't expecting it to be really anything like Melee. I was expecting it to be a new game. As far as generic fighting game guide lines go, I don't see how Brawl has anything over Melee besides having more characters, more stages, and the ability to change your control shit around.

"It is the same except for the things that makes it different."

Nice.
Just treat them as different games. Things go by much smoother.

 

[Mr Escalator]

Lol zangy :P
I like the music options, personally. The Golden Sun theme is the only song I want on my Norfair, for example.

and also agreeing with Kade. I don't really want to argue over something like Snake being "broken" or not.

 

[Firestorm]

The second this shit turns into a flame-war, I'm locking it down and handing out infractions like candy on Halloween. Just giving warning. Mr Escalator, you're on the borderline right there on your last post.

And Hans, where do you live? In my area almost every tournament has been doing Melee, Brawl, and 64. We've only done Brawl only a few times. Brawl is by far the most popular game with the biggest turnouts, but the older games get coverage too.

 

[Hans]

A ton of wrong shit

Just needed to do that for personal satisfaction.

I honestly didn't want this to become a flame war....I thought it might happen though. I just wanted some debate and I wanted to hear some Smogoner's opinions.

Firsestorm, I live in TN, where it has almost always been nigh impossible to find tournaments. Tournaments in general are REALLY slim, and tournaments that include Melee are pretty much nonexistent. I'm going to Kumite in Nashville for some Melee friendlies, but they don't have a tournament for Melee yet so I may compete in Brawl as well.

You can go ahead and lock this or delete it or whatnot. I just wanted to know if anyone preferred Melee on Smogon. Bad move I guess

 

[Mr Escalator]

I wasn't wrong to anything but the Faux Super Armor (which is aimed to controller ports) and I was joking about Captain Falcon beating Snake.

But I'm going to duck out as well.

I don't mean to start a flamewar, to be honest, so big apologies mate.
You can keep the thread up if you're still interested, its just that this a touchy topic. If you do decide to close it, you can always post in the general discussion for a quick question like preference.

OR they can make a new topic for melee general discussion :P

But anyways, sorry to get on your case.
Don't mean to sound so negative.
Seeya.

 

[Hans]

I don't think you really know that much about Snake and really how good he is, I don't know enough about him to really do him justice.

But ya, if someone will close/delete this, maybe I'll make a melee general discussion thread or anything.

Sorry

 

[Mr Escalator]

Snakes pretty good, but im banking on MK to be better eventually.
It would be nice to see some melee stuff here, too.
I might scrounge around for the game, to be honest, because I've yet to go back and see how different it is.

 

[Hans]

Could be, MK is beastly too. I was just disappointed that he doesn't really have any personality like Snake does. They pretty much portrayed him as a cliche fast attacking sword character

I actually started preferring Melee after playing a couple weeks of Brawl then getting Melee again. You may like it as well :P