-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 2 (Primary Typing Poll 2)
- Thread starter Sunday
- Start date
- Status
They're a general belief is that Electric/Poison would be a excellent "unique" typing. Personally I think Poison/Dark or Poison/Steel would do better. They're also a general belief that mini-modding is bad and that only a true modder/admin should be the ones doing that.
Voted Electric because there are SO FEW dual-type electrics, and I think we could make a unique pokemon here. I also want this pokemon to be fast, and Electric is the "fast type" flavor-wise. Not to say we can't have a fast poison type (Crobat anyone?), but electric just FEELS fast. I also think Electric will inspire some seriously cool art designs.
Poison, for four reasons:
• Toxic Spikes absorption.
• Better flavor.
• Fighting resistance = awesome.
• I can think of many more awesome secondary types for it. Electric/Poison is awkward, inelegant, and absurd. A Psychic/Poison, a Dark/Poison with Levitate (no weaknesses!), or a Poison/Flying would all be awesome. Keep in mind that Tailwind only makes sense on something with wings that flies or floats. The only cool things I can think of for Electric are Bug/Electric (a supporting electro-bug would be pretty cool) and Dark/Electric (pretty sexy typing if you ask me).
• Toxic Spikes absorption.
• Better flavor.
• Fighting resistance = awesome.
• I can think of many more awesome secondary types for it. Electric/Poison is awkward, inelegant, and absurd. A Psychic/Poison, a Dark/Poison with Levitate (no weaknesses!), or a Poison/Flying would all be awesome. Keep in mind that Tailwind only makes sense on something with wings that flies or floats. The only cool things I can think of for Electric are Bug/Electric (a supporting electro-bug would be pretty cool) and Dark/Electric (pretty sexy typing if you ask me).
Yeah but both Drapion and Skuntank are UU.
Electric
The simple fact of the matter is, we are making a pure utility pokemon. Looking at the current pool of Poison types, several of them already fit the bill of "utility" (Tentacruel, Weezing, and even Roserade, to name a few.) Electric types, on the other hand, fall rather short. Sure, several electrics can be good team players (Zapdos for Baton passing, Magnezone for steel trapping, Jolteon for wish passing) but none of them, unlike some of the poison types I have listed, come close to being built towards pure utility. Hence, I would find it far more interesting if Electric becomes our primary type. I did not consider weaknesses in this vote because both types offer useful resists and would both make good utility pokemon.
The simple fact of the matter is, we are making a pure utility pokemon. Looking at the current pool of Poison types, several of them already fit the bill of "utility" (Tentacruel, Weezing, and even Roserade, to name a few.) Electric types, on the other hand, fall rather short. Sure, several electrics can be good team players (Zapdos for Baton passing, Magnezone for steel trapping, Jolteon for wish passing) but none of them, unlike some of the poison types I have listed, come close to being built towards pure utility. Hence, I would find it far more interesting if Electric becomes our primary type. I did not consider weaknesses in this vote because both types offer useful resists and would both make good utility pokemon.
Poison has good resitance, it deals with toxic spikes, and it would increase representation of the type in OU.
I vote Electric, because it seems like I can fit more of those moves in easier. But still, it seems hard to use all of them, because of how different they are used. I see It being able to somehow use Gravity, Rapid Spin, a type of with, with like shock therapy. Trick room would fit, Again, some shock therapy for Heal Bell. Encore seems normal, Memeto would fit. Psycho Shift seems hard to fit The coats would work, Tailwind, and maybe the spikes, but thats it. And It would have to look really odd for it to look like it can use all of those.
I want it to be Ice for the hell of it because that seems awesome
I want it to be Ice for the hell of it because that seems awesome
After reading some of the reasons that several users wrote when voting for Poison as a primary typing, I feel that they really need to look outside the box when it comes to how our type selection will effect the outcome of our final creation...
Maybe I didn't make this clear enough in my last post, but, with respect to the two typings we have to choose from, resistances and immunities are irrelevant at this point of the process. Both types are rather good defensively and share a common weakness, so I feel simply stating that "Resistance to X!" is not a good enough reason to vote for a specific primary typing. I find this especially pointless because the secondary typing selection, which hasn't even begun yet, could completely offset the said resistance. Plus, the fact that, say, Poison resists Fighting, isn't necessarily better than Electric's resistance to Electric, so it is pointless to argue, at least at this point anyway, that a certain resistance that one type has over the other makes for a better utility pokemon. The point is, both types offer nearly the same amount of advantages, so their really is no point in using them to justify your vote.
The other thing I notice about people voting for poison type is that they argue that Toxic Spikes absorption is very good utility. While I will not argue that this trait is is a good asset for a utility pokemon, I feel it simply doesn't justify the vote for poison typing because we haven't even defined any specific roles for our creation beyond utility. There are several moves and traits in the game that can be labeled under utility besides setting/absorbing toxic spikes. Thus, in deciding which type to vote for, I looked for which typing would make a more interesting utility pokemon. This brings me into the main reason of voting against poison typing -- Several poison types already have access to the the utility of Toxic Spikes setup/absorption, so why the hell do we need another one? On the other hand, Electrics have been built primarily offensively and have very little to offer in the line of utility.
When I look at this poll, I view it in terms of the very purpose of making concepts -- the very purpose of this concept... How does our creation contribute to the overall metagame of pokemon? A poison type, based on the reasons posted so far, would do very little, but a pure utility electric type would be far more interesting and have a more profound impact on the game. It doesn't have to be game breaking, but it should at least stand out. With all of that in mind, electric is a much better choice, and I would be ashamed if the community would put the opportunity of making a pure utility pokemon to waste and vote poison.
Maybe I didn't make this clear enough in my last post, but, with respect to the two typings we have to choose from, resistances and immunities are irrelevant at this point of the process. Both types are rather good defensively and share a common weakness, so I feel simply stating that "Resistance to X!" is not a good enough reason to vote for a specific primary typing. I find this especially pointless because the secondary typing selection, which hasn't even begun yet, could completely offset the said resistance. Plus, the fact that, say, Poison resists Fighting, isn't necessarily better than Electric's resistance to Electric, so it is pointless to argue, at least at this point anyway, that a certain resistance that one type has over the other makes for a better utility pokemon. The point is, both types offer nearly the same amount of advantages, so their really is no point in using them to justify your vote.
The other thing I notice about people voting for poison type is that they argue that Toxic Spikes absorption is very good utility. While I will not argue that this trait is is a good asset for a utility pokemon, I feel it simply doesn't justify the vote for poison typing because we haven't even defined any specific roles for our creation beyond utility. There are several moves and traits in the game that can be labeled under utility besides setting/absorbing toxic spikes. Thus, in deciding which type to vote for, I looked for which typing would make a more interesting utility pokemon. This brings me into the main reason of voting against poison typing -- Several poison types already have access to the the utility of Toxic Spikes setup/absorption, so why the hell do we need another one? On the other hand, Electrics have been built primarily offensively and have very little to offer in the line of utility.
When I look at this poll, I view it in terms of the very purpose of making concepts -- the very purpose of this concept... How does our creation contribute to the overall metagame of pokemon? A poison type, based on the reasons posted so far, would do very little, but a pure utility electric type would be far more interesting and have a more profound impact on the game. It doesn't have to be game breaking, but it should at least stand out. With all of that in mind, electric is a much better choice, and I would be ashamed if the community would put the opportunity of making a pure utility pokemon to waste and vote poison.
I'm seconding Bass' assertion that a Poison type Utility Pokemon has been done before, and brings nothing new to the CAP table. If the goal of CAP is to retread old ground, then I want nothing of it. The concept of an Electric pure Utility is one that has not been explored completely, and is in my opinion more deserving of our attention in CAP #4 than a Poison type is.
As someone in the last poll said about how we should "reserve" our types (under the assumption that we will attempt to do each type once before redoing the same type twice) I think that our Poison type should be saved for something that a Poison type has thus far not been relegated to doing, rather than making yet ANOTHER utility based Poison type.
I vote for Electric
As someone in the last poll said about how we should "reserve" our types (under the assumption that we will attempt to do each type once before redoing the same type twice) I think that our Poison type should be saved for something that a Poison type has thus far not been relegated to doing, rather than making yet ANOTHER utility based Poison type.
I vote for Electric
I don't see how it is absurd. Somebody already suggested a "battery" Pokemon which fits the electric/poison type perfectly.
Go bass! Lol, that was a really strong speech. >_>.
I also agree that having a poison utility pokemon is kinda meh, we have things like tenta that work fine setting up toxic spikes in OU, so why not have an electric? Resistances and immunities also wouldn't be of consideration, like you said earlier, since that can all be fixed by the likes of moves and abilities. *cough levitate/magnet pull cough*
I also agree that having a poison utility pokemon is kinda meh, we have things like tenta that work fine setting up toxic spikes in OU, so why not have an electric? Resistances and immunities also wouldn't be of consideration, like you said earlier, since that can all be fixed by the likes of moves and abilities. *cough levitate/magnet pull cough*
I voted Electric for a few reasons.
First, having only one weakness is an advantage, and since Psychic moves are much more common on the CaP server due to Revenankh's presence, the Poison type's Psychic weakness is actually more of a hindrance than most are giving it credit for.
Second, due to the previous three CaPs all being weak to Flying, having a CaP resist flying would help diversify our metagame. Electric serves this purpose very well.
Third...let's face it, Poison types already are useful utility types. Weezing, Drapion, Tentacruel, Roserade (actually the plethora of Grass / Poisons), Nidoqueen and Crobat all are effective utility Pokemon. Electric has...Jolteon, Zapdos and Rotom, the first two who are limited to Thunder Wave and Baton Pass (boring) and only Rotom who actually sets up a Reflect or uses Will-o-wisp occasionally. Having our lovely utility-equivalent to Clefable be Electric diversifies the metagame much more than having it as Poison.
Fourth, since we have no idea what the stat distribution is going to be, we can safely assume that the possiblity exists that this will be able to attack, if not extremely well. Having an Electric STAB is MUCH more useful than having a Poison STAB.
Fifth, Electric further increases the potential for possible attacking ability by giving access to Charge Beam, meaning if we wish to surprise our opponent, we will be able to do so without resorting to some gimmick Choice Specs set (as Poison would force us).
Sixth, I don't like our super utility guy being able to absorb Toxic Spikes. I may be assuming a bit much here, but I think it is a foregone conclusion that it will be getting some sort of 50% recovery move...Toxic Spikes are a great way to deal with this guy, especially because a super utility guy seems to be able to be the perfect Pokemon for "reversing" the "momentum" in a battle, and allowing its presence to be omnipotent might not be the effect we necessarily desire. Toxic Spikes should remain viable in our CaP metagame.
Well, those were simply just a few reasons, but I do have some more subtle ones. Poison just doesn't seem to be what I envision when I look at this guy, especially since the Electric typing seems to fit so well with the way the CaP metagame is shifting.
Vote Electric!
First, having only one weakness is an advantage, and since Psychic moves are much more common on the CaP server due to Revenankh's presence, the Poison type's Psychic weakness is actually more of a hindrance than most are giving it credit for.
Second, due to the previous three CaPs all being weak to Flying, having a CaP resist flying would help diversify our metagame. Electric serves this purpose very well.
Third...let's face it, Poison types already are useful utility types. Weezing, Drapion, Tentacruel, Roserade (actually the plethora of Grass / Poisons), Nidoqueen and Crobat all are effective utility Pokemon. Electric has...Jolteon, Zapdos and Rotom, the first two who are limited to Thunder Wave and Baton Pass (boring) and only Rotom who actually sets up a Reflect or uses Will-o-wisp occasionally. Having our lovely utility-equivalent to Clefable be Electric diversifies the metagame much more than having it as Poison.
Fourth, since we have no idea what the stat distribution is going to be, we can safely assume that the possiblity exists that this will be able to attack, if not extremely well. Having an Electric STAB is MUCH more useful than having a Poison STAB.
Fifth, Electric further increases the potential for possible attacking ability by giving access to Charge Beam, meaning if we wish to surprise our opponent, we will be able to do so without resorting to some gimmick Choice Specs set (as Poison would force us).
Sixth, I don't like our super utility guy being able to absorb Toxic Spikes. I may be assuming a bit much here, but I think it is a foregone conclusion that it will be getting some sort of 50% recovery move...Toxic Spikes are a great way to deal with this guy, especially because a super utility guy seems to be able to be the perfect Pokemon for "reversing" the "momentum" in a battle, and allowing its presence to be omnipotent might not be the effect we necessarily desire. Toxic Spikes should remain viable in our CaP metagame.
Well, those were simply just a few reasons, but I do have some more subtle ones. Poison just doesn't seem to be what I envision when I look at this guy, especially since the Electric typing seems to fit so well with the way the CaP metagame is shifting.
Vote Electric!
Uh, by what means do you think that dark will be the secondary type of this pokemon? I could say that "x" type pairs better with electric, and that wouldn't mean much, since we don't even know what the secondary type of this pokemon would be. What if it was steel? What if it was fighting? Both of those type combos would be dark resistant, right?
I do believe that, while Poison has had plenty of Pokemon that can effectively call themselves utility-brand, I don't think the concept is yet perfected in them, hence why they are fairly underrated. However, Electric types number small when compared to Poison, and I think that Electrics need the benefit of a strong utility user more than Poison does; at least, for the moment.
What have we got with support with Electric types? Fractured, scattered stuffs. Zapdos provides para support and Agilipassing fine, Jolteon can Sub pass, but out of that we're honestly lacking in the area of Electric-type support Pokemon. The CAP project is intended to diversify and open up the metagame, we've got plenty of stuff with Poison - as much as we'd like to perfect them - but Electric is sorely in need of something that can provide good support.
Electric can hold its own in the realm of utility typing as well. If you want to look at the ratio format of things, Electric exceeds Poison, with one weakness to three resistances while Poison gets two weaknesses with four resistances. The influx of Psychic attacks (especially on CAP with Revenankh around, as Aldaron said), essentially leaves our Poison type open to nasty hits no Utility Pokemon wants to take. Sure, we could always go Poison/Dark, but we've already seen that a couple times. Not to mention nulling the resistance to Fighting moves.
Honestly, I think trying to focus on the Fighting move resistance is rather odd, as you can get similar things by just packing Weezing. Unless we were trying to give it a good recovery move; which would begin to lead things unpleasantly in the direction of Revenankh :: Dusknoir.
What have we got with support with Electric types? Fractured, scattered stuffs. Zapdos provides para support and Agilipassing fine, Jolteon can Sub pass, but out of that we're honestly lacking in the area of Electric-type support Pokemon. The CAP project is intended to diversify and open up the metagame, we've got plenty of stuff with Poison - as much as we'd like to perfect them - but Electric is sorely in need of something that can provide good support.
Electric can hold its own in the realm of utility typing as well. If you want to look at the ratio format of things, Electric exceeds Poison, with one weakness to three resistances while Poison gets two weaknesses with four resistances. The influx of Psychic attacks (especially on CAP with Revenankh around, as Aldaron said), essentially leaves our Poison type open to nasty hits no Utility Pokemon wants to take. Sure, we could always go Poison/Dark, but we've already seen that a couple times. Not to mention nulling the resistance to Fighting moves.
Honestly, I think trying to focus on the Fighting move resistance is rather odd, as you can get similar things by just packing Weezing. Unless we were trying to give it a good recovery move; which would begin to lead things unpleasantly in the direction of Revenankh :: Dusknoir.
Perfectly? Not really. When I think of batteries, I think Electric, not Poison. Yeah, yeah, if you open them up and drink the lithium ions or whatever, it can be bad for you, but that's not really the essence of batteries.
When you think about a secondary type, it really has to be a part of what that Pokemon is, not just tacked on. A battery Pokemon would be Electric. Poison would just be tacked on.
There's no flavor that could possibly fit an Electric/Poison Pokemon without feeling like it was forced onto the Pokemon just so it could have the typing that we chose.
After reading both Bass and Aldaron thrilling post I'm glad I voted for Electric. A-Ron's comment also dispel some fears about this thing, namely no usable offense to the point it's a Umbreon/Shuckle.
- Status