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***[VOTE] The final Wobbuffet "discussion" thread***

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ZARZEMA said:
Not at all, only people who understand how to make a team can use wobbuffet correctly and those are the people who do. Wobbu isn't a pokemon like blissey or garchomp who can just be thrown into a team of random walls and sweepers.
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That's not true. TAY's team was Wobbuffet + 5 Sweepers. And it wins games, easily.

Lyfsaho said:
Miao said:
I'd say by that logic, we should also ban celebi, since it's obviously broken since so many skilled players use it.

Notice that the not so skilled players are not using wobbafet, it's not as popular there. If it "won games and took no skill to use" it would show up in the weighted statistics for overall usage, just not amoung experts.
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Brilliantly said.
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You're completely's missing Syberia's point. Wobbuffet being on the top of that list could be for a wide variety of reasons (ie. top players whoring him to prove a point, lower-ranked players becoming above average because of Wobb, etc), however that list is a perfect illustration of why "Raw usage stats show he's not being used much!" are a rubbish reason to campaign for his permanent un-banning. As soon as we stop counting people who used Chatot and Delibird competitively, Wobb's weighted usage skyrockets. It isn't a reason to ban Wobbuffet (which is not the point Syberia was making, as everyone else understood), it's a reason why using usage statistics at this point is pretty irrelevant.
 
Wobbufett is Uber for many reasons that people have said before put I shall paraphrase or restate them right now. Wobbufett is mostly Uber because of its ability to cripple teams with just its appearance in a battle. Encore makes this an even powerful threat, since you are stuck on the same move while he could set up a major threat.

The ability of Wobbufett's is known as Shadow Tag. This ability stops any "counters" from entering the field since a counter must be able to come in safely (which you can't at all) and pose a threat. On top of this ability it has a huge base HP which makes it a wall carrying Counter and Mirror Coat. If something attacks it, the Pokemon must have a Stat Boost to OHKO Wobbufett or it is going to be KO'd 9/10 times.

Wobbufett has a huge base HP, and may have a limited moveset but any moves it has are support and then 2 lethal moves to double an opposing attacks power shoot it right back at the attacker. Wobbufett may not be good in Ubers but Ubers was only created as a ban's list from OU and then later on became an actual tier.
 
I posted log in this topic and everyone ignored it. I was running a team of Wobb, one supporter, and four sweepers and it kept on working well. I'll repost the log. I made several egregious mistakes and Wobb handed me the win.

Code: 
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
roly768 sent out Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Lewis Carroll sent out Bel-Air (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Dragonite used Fire Punch.
It's super effective!
Bel-Air lost 52% of its health.
Bel-Air was burned!
Dragonite lost 10% of its health.
Bel-Air used Hypnosis.
Dragonite fell asleep!
Bel-Air was hurt by its burn!
Bel-Air lost 12% of its health.
---
roly768 switched in Blaziken (lvl 100 Blaziken ?).
Bel-Air used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around your foe's team!
Bel-Air was hurt by its burn!
Bel-Air lost 12% of its health.
---
Lewis Carroll switched in I R UBAR AZ WELL (lvl 100 Wobbuffet ?).
Blaziken used Fire Punch.
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 18% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
Blaziken used Reversal.
It's not very effective...
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 3% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Encore.
Blaziken got an encore!
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
Lewis Carroll switched in Shoop Da Whoop (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Shoop Da Whoop's intimidate cut Blaziken's attack!
Blaziken used Reversal.
It's not very effective...
Shoop Da Whoop lost 3% of its health.
---
roly768 switched in Magnezone (lvl 100 Magnezone).
Pointed stones dug into Magnezone.
Magnezone lost 6% of its health.
Shoop Da Whoop used Dragon Dance.
Shoop Da Whoop's attack was raised.
Shoop Da Whoop's speed was raised.
Magnezone's leftovers restored its health a little!
Magnezone restored 6% of its health.
---
Shoop Da Whoop used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Magnezone lost 100% of its health.
roly768's Magnezone fainted.
---
roly768 switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dragonite.
Dragonite lost 25% of its health.
Shoop Da Whoop used Dragon Dance.
Shoop Da Whoop's attack was raised.
Shoop Da Whoop's speed was raised.
Dragonite is fast asleep!
---
Shoop Da Whoop used Dragon Dance.
Shoop Da Whoop's attack was raised.
Shoop Da Whoop's speed was raised.
Dragonite woke up!
Dragonite used Outrage.
Dragonite went on a rampage!
Shoop Da Whoop lost 97% of its health.
Lewis Carroll's Shoop Da Whoop fainted.
Dragonite lost 10% of its health.
---
Lewis Carroll switched in Negai Boshi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Dragonite used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Negai Boshi lost 32% of its health.
Dragonite lost 10% of its health.
Negai Boshi used Calm Mind.
Negai Boshi's special attack was raised.
Negai Boshi's special defence was raised.
---
Dragonite used Outrage.
It's not very effective...
Negai Boshi lost 31% of its health.
Dragonite lost 10% of its health.
Negai Boshi used Calm Mind.
Negai Boshi's special attack was raised.
Negai Boshi's special defence was raised.
Dragonite's rampage ended.
Dragonite became confused!
---
Dragonite is confused!
Dragonite used Fire Punch.
It's super effective!
Negai Boshi lost 37% of its health.
Lewis Carroll's Negai Boshi fainted.
Dragonite lost 10% of its health.
---
Lewis Carroll switched in I R UBAR AZ WELL (lvl 100 Wobbuffet ?).
Dragonite is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Dragonite lost 16% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Counter.
But it failed!
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
Dragonite is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Dragonite lost 10% of its health.
roly768's Dragonite fainted.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Counter.
But there was no target!
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 2% of its health.
---
roly768 switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
Starmie used Rapid Spin.
Starmie blew away the spikes!
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 2% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Safeguard.
Your team became cloaked in a mystic veil!
Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little!
Starmie restored 6% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 2% of its health.
---
Starmie used Ice Beam.
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 19% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Encore.
Starmie got an encore!
Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little!
Starmie restored 6% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
Starmie used Ice Beam.
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 19% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Mirror Coat.
Starmie lost 66% of its health.
Starmie's leftovers restored its health a little!
Starmie restored 6% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
Starmie used Ice Beam.
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 19% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Mirror Coat.
Starmie lost 40% of its health.
roly768's Starmie fainted.
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
roly768 switched in Blaziken (lvl 100 Blaziken ?).
Blaziken used Fire Punch.
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 20% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Counter.
Blaziken lost 58% of its health.
Your team is no longer protected by Safeguard!
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
Blaziken used Swords Dance.
Blaziken's attack was sharply raised.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Counter.
But it failed!
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
Blaziken used Fire Punch.
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 40% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Counter.
Blaziken lost 42% of its health.
roly768's Blaziken fainted.
I R UBAR AZ WELL's leftovers restored its health a little!
I R UBAR AZ WELL restored 6% of its health.
---
roly768 switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Gliscor used Knock Off.
It's super effective!
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 6% of its health.
Gliscor knocked off foe I R UBAR AZ WELL's Leftovers!
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Encore.
Gliscor got an encore!
---
Gliscor used Knock Off.
It's super effective!
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 6% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Counter.
Gliscor lost 17% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Knock Off.
It's super effective!
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 6% of its health.
I R UBAR AZ WELL used Counter.
Gliscor lost 17% of its health.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Gliscor used Knock Off.
It's super effective!
I R UBAR AZ WELL lost 3% of its health.
Lewis Carroll's I R UBAR AZ WELL fainted.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Lewis Carroll switched in Bel-Air (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Gliscor used Knock Off.
Bel-Air lost 4% of its health.
Gliscor knocked off foe Bel-Air's Shed Shell!
Bel-Air used Explosion.
Gliscor lost 35% of its health.
Lewis Carroll's Bel-Air fainted.
Gliscor's leftovers restored its health a little!
Gliscor restored 6% of its health.
---
Lewis Carroll switched in Ecks Bawks (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Ecks Bawks's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
Ecks Bawks used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 56% of its health.
roly768's Gliscor fainted.
Ecks Bawks lost 10% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
roly768 switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Lewis Carroll switched in I R UBAR (lvl 100 Garchomp ?).
Blissey used Toxic.
I R UBAR was badly poisoned!
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
I R UBAR is hurt by poison!
I R UBAR lost 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Protect.
Blissey protected itself!
I R UBAR used Swords Dance.
I R UBAR's attack was sharply raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
I R UBAR is hurt by poison!
I R UBAR lost 12% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Protect.
But it failed!
I R UBAR used Swords Dance.
I R UBAR's attack was sharply raised.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
I R UBAR is hurt by poison!
I R UBAR lost 18% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
I R UBAR used Swords Dance.
I R UBAR's attack was sharply raised.
Blissey used Flamethrower.
It's not very effective...
I R UBAR lost 11% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
Blissey is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Blissey lost 6% of its health.
I R UBAR is hurt by poison!
I R UBAR lost 25% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
I R UBAR used Earthquake.
Blissey lost 100% of its health.
roly768's Blissey fainted.
Lewis Carroll wins!
roly768: gg
Lewis Carroll: gg
roly768 has left the room.
 
Guraion said:
I posted log in this topic and everyone ignored it. I was running a team of Wobb, one supporter, and four sweepers and it kept on working well. I'll repost the log. I made several egregious mistakes and Wobb handed me the win.
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Your opponent played much worse than you and lost the moment he sent out magnezone before determining if your gyarados had earthquake. He was pretty gyara weak to begin with and only lasted as long as he did was because he got lucky and his dragonite woke up early.
 
Guraion said:
I posted log in this topic and everyone ignored it.
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Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding the point of this topic, but I don't believe logs are much of an issue anymore. Logs might convince other people to change their opinions, but this is a voting topic. Most people have their opinions already formed by the dozens of Wob discussions that have already popped up, so posting logs is rather a moot point now.

Besides, any time someone requests a log and then one gets posted the validity of said log becomes an issue because people start making claims about subjective things such as skill, and then start demanding a compiled list of X number of logs.... and basically this will just spiral out of control and instead of people debating the actual Pokemon, we get into arguments about how to debate them.

Its very exciting.
 
Why do we need Theorymon in this discussion? Either you have experience with Wobbuffet or you don't. The quality of most, if not all, of the Theorymon against Wobbuffet has seemed low at best. We have seen logs of top level opponents showing what Wobbuffet can do. Where are the logs showing IPL getting easily defeated by some of these "simple" solutions forwarded by what appear to be theorists. You know, "just use Taunt, U-turn, etc." or my favorite "just put Shed Shell on something".

I certainly would like to read how top players beat Wobbuffet. It seems pointless to write about how you think Wobbuffet can easily be handled, when IPL holds the 2nd and 3rd spots. I see that Astral Projection is #1, he probably read this topic and is using the "just put Shed Shell on something" strategy.

If we discuss bringing Mew to OU, we need Theorymon. Wobbuffet has been available for about 5 months, Theorymon is unnecessary, especially bad Theorymon.
 
Off subject- Astral Projection is a respected Smogoner under an alias which if you don't know who it is, he (or she) probably doesn't want you to know. But just make it clear he (or she) knows perfectly damn well what they're doing with or against Wobbu.
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
Off subject- Astral Projection is a respected Smogoner under an alias which if you don't know who it is, he (or she) probably doesn't want you to know. But just make it clear he (or she) knows perfectly damn well what they're doing with or against Wobbu.
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I don't know who that's directed towards. If it's me, your point, was my point. I don't think Astral Projection got to #1 by "putting a Shed Shell on something". I clearly stated my dissatisfaction with the "simple" solutions advanced by Theorymon advocates, in this situation.
 
FastHippo said:
Why do we need Theorymon in this discussion? Either you have experience with Wobbuffet or you don't. The quality of most, if not all, of the Theorymon against Wobbuffet has seemed low at best. We have seen logs of top level opponents showing what Wobbuffet can do. Where are the logs showing IPL getting easily defeated by some of these "simple" solutions forwarded by what appear to be theorists. You know, "just use Taunt, U-turn, etc." or my favorite "just put Shed Shell on something".

I certainly would like to read how top players beat Wobbuffet. It seems pointless to write about how you think Wobbuffet can easily be handled, when IPL holds the 2nd and 3rd spots. I see that Astral Projection is #1, he probably read this topic and is using the "just put Shed Shell on something" strategy.

If we discuss bringing Mew to OU, we need Theorymon. Wobbuffet has been available for about 5 months, Theorymon is unnecessary, especially bad Theorymon.
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What? Your not making any sense your saying theorymon is unnecessary. They are obviously just stating ways Wobbufet can be beaten to prove a point, to show that wobuffet isnt broken let me guess your argument " SEE you have to modify your whole team to counter it" tha is not true this has been done to all thing lets say you have a frail team thats weak to dugtrio simple add something that can counter making your team more solid not modifying your entire team to counter it.
 
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