CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 2 )

[T_T]

No secondary typing

Wow, its just boring how ppl want Poison/Dragon - Dragons arent made for Utility ( it'll look crappy like Altaria ) ._.

I chose no secondary typing because if we just let it be Poison, it'll absorb spikes and still have the fighting res. This may be the same in other typings but why u need a new type combo?

 

[Mekkah]

Dragons arent made for Utility ( it'll look crappy like Altaria ) ._.

Huh? No type is "made" for anything. This is like saying Suicune was meant to protect the earth, not be in the hands of some trainer.

I think Dragon actually limits what this pokemon can do. I know a few learn some nice utility moves like TWave, Heal Bell, Haze, but these arent Dragon Specific. Ground, Electric, Dark, and Steel gain new moves from their secondary, while Dragon learns nothing (and the snake like design a lot of you are aiming for would probably not have screens, trickroom, or even healbell. The no secondary typing also doesn't gain anything.

Dragon does make it easier to justify Psychic-like moves on a Poison-type, it's been explained before. The moves Ground, Dark, Electric etc have aren't specific to their type either.

 

[Mr Escalator]

I looked back through the other thread, and there was very little reasoning for Dragon aside from resitances and the coolness factor. Some went off on how a defensive dragon was "needed". Tay had probably the best argument from all that I skimmed, and even then I don't see why it should be chosen OVER Dark or Ground. Even No Secondary seems like a better choice.

I dunno. I really dislike how people are just jumping for it immediatly when they see the word Dragon. Sure, a poisonous dragon sounds pretty cool, but that's hardly why we should choose that typing.

I'm still curious what design we'd go off of if we did do Poison/Dragon. It can't be serpent-like if it's going to be based on utility, I think. A turtle Dragon is the best thing I can think of for a defensive dragon, but that doesn't include poison (unless it's a breath attack ;/). We can work on a dragon next CAP project, just, we need a good utility pokemon, and I think Dark and Ground do that better.

:s

Dragon does make it easier to justify Psychic-like moves on a Poison-type, it's been explained before. The moves Ground, Dark, Electric etc have aren't specific to their type either.

As does Dark, but then again, it depends on how we stylize this pokemon. I don't see a serpent, which many in the last thread seem to think this would be, setting up mental barriers and pulling down flyers with it's mind.

Flavor wise, Electric offers the screens readily, TWave, maybe magnet Rise... Something like electrode.
Ground gives SR and spikes, sandstorm, gravity fits in, etc.
and Dark has a lot http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-dp/dark.shtml

While they aren't completely specific, they fit into the pokemon's designs more readily, I think.

 

[LifeSavers]

since this pokemon is a utility poke i think DARK we will have less to worry about and it can survive more hits

 

[Jhonny]

DARK

My reasoning is the same as ever, and pretty much the same as everyone else who has voted for dar.

 

[Mr Escalator]

You have to bold your vote, otherwise, it will not be counted.
Preferably at the top of the post, but I think that isn't lost in a wall of text, so it would be okay to just bold.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Sort of like a second Garchomp except skewed toward defense rather than offense.

130/80/108/85/102/95 Poison/Dragon retarded Garchomp stepchild?

I can't decide between Electric, Dragon, and Ground so I won't vote atm. I'm somewhat more inclined to vote for Ground only because Latino heat's reasons behind Poison/Ground are so thought out and appealing.

 

[gaudetjaja]

I was about to vote dragon when I saw mekkah's argument of a mystic dragon, but it seems that people want it to be a serpent and an utility serpent is just a big no.

I really don't like where CAP4 is going right now, so I am going to hold off voting for now. I do like that people are beginning to think more about the flavour though.

Also, we really don't need a third poison/dark. I would definately vote steel if it weren't for the fact it doesn't absorb tspikes, and it would be hard to give trick room to, even though it would learn SR, spikes, gravity and rapid spin. Electric starts sounding a bit more plausible (twave and screens) but it's not good enough to vote for now. Ground, well, it could give spikes, SR and rapid spin, but we'd probably miss out on gravity and TR. Lastly, no secondary typing will give us no other option than Toxic Spikes and maybe haze or something dumb like that which is a big no.

Actually, I think I'm going to vote for either steel or electric.

 

[DDRMaster]

Dark: Mr. Escalator already said it all.

 

[Elevator Music]

Ground.

Changed my vote for anyone who cares. Poison/Dragon may be the better pokemon competitively, but Poison/Ground is better for flavor and just works better.

Ground will help the momentum of the project itself Sunday. A lot of people are already mad at Poison. More would be mad with Dragon. I think keeping a lot of people focused on the project [and happy with the project] is the best way to get a quality pokemon. We can't lose our artists or the people who will be voting or the people who actually care enough to contribute.

 

[Stall]

Dragon

Bandwagon-hopping, mostly, since others have given good reasoning, specifically Mekkah.

 

[sanjay120]

Electric for reasons I've already explained.

 

[DDRMaster]

Some people are looking at the moves that this pokemon could learn and using that to justify the types. There's a lot of non-Electric Pokemon that learn Thunder Wave and the screens and a lot of non-Dark Pokemon that Snatch and Taunt. There would be moves that would be hard to justify on certain types (like Thunder Wave on a Ground Pokemon or WoW on a non-Fire or Ghost Pokemon) but most of the utility moves would work on any of these types.

 

[Skyshroud]

I think Dragon actually limits what this pokemon can do. I know a few learn some nice utility moves like TWave, Heal Bell, Haze, but these arent Dragon Specific. Ground, Electric, Dark, and Steel gain new moves from their secondary, while Dragon learns nothing (and the snake like design a lot of you are aiming for would probably not have screens, trickroom, or even healbell. The no secondary typing also doesn't gain anything.

What do you mean that utility moves are not Dragon Specific. Sure, the dragons abuse their powerful attack stats, but that does not mean they don't learn other moves. Dragonite learns Thunder Wave, Haze, Light Screen, and Safeguard, as well as gaining Heal Bell from purifying in XD. You already mentioned Altaria, which carries several solid support options. Lati@s gets Reflect, Light Screen, Refresh/Safeguard, and Wish. Most of the dragons can set up various types of weather as well. It is perfectly acceptable for a dragon to have support moves flavor-wise. The only reason we don't see it more often is because they all pretty much have more aggressive stat spreads that make them more suited to sweeping. Gravity is also feasible on a poison/dragon depending on the design.

That being said, Latino Heat makes a great argument for it being a ground type. I'm going to hold off on voting for now.

 

[JimBob]

I like Electric

now I'm not great at pokemon so my reasons will probably be shaky to experienced people, but whatever

I was looking at the number of weaknesses each of the combinations had. Dragon and Ground both have 4 weaknesses, which is by no means bad, but trying to minimize the amount of moves that can smash it is important to me.

Poison, Poison/Steel, and Poison/Electric all have two weaknesses. I threw out steel because it won't absorb toxic spikes, which is the main reason I wanted poison. Poison/Dark only has one weakness.

Pure poison has 3 resists if I remember correctly.
Poison/Dark has 4 resists and 1 immunity
Poison/Electric has 7 resists

Dark gives up resistances on fighting and bug, but also gets rid of a weakness. Electric doesn't mess with Poison's resists, and brings a few more to the table, while making it more susceptible to ground moves. Electric has a slight advantage in the resist category in my opinion.

I also looked at useful support moves that are of each type. (this isn't as important since a lot of pokemon learn moves that aren't their type, but it's a close race for me)

Poison - Gastro Acid, Toxic Spikes, various poisoning moves
Dark - Dark Void, Embargo, Snatch, Switcheroo, Knock Off, Taunt, Theif, Memento
Electric - Magnet Rise, Thunder Wave

Dark clearly has a lot of support options. Magnet Rise looks nice, but Dark beats out quality with quantity, 4 times as many possibilities

Yet I really want to vote electric. Some of the more important dark support moves (knock off, taunt) are learned by more non-dark pokemon than pokemon that actually are dark-type. And Dark Void isn't learned by anything save darkrai. (I dunno if dark wins, you might give it dark void, but I think I'm getting too far ahead of the poll, and I need to come back to typing).

After all this stuff, I can't really justify that electric is better than dark, or dark is better than ground, or electric is better than no additional type. I think that all of these options will yield a good pokemon with sunday moderating the CAP threads, so I'm just going to vote for electic whatever

 

[Atlas]

choosing steel for art++

 

[Urza]

dragon - bandwagon! plus it's defensive without being too defensive, and gives it two mediocre STABs to work with.

however, i think your attack stats are way too high GT. PURE utility is the concept. it needs much lower attack.

 

[gengod]

I'm still curious what design we'd go off of if we did do Poison/Dragon. It can't be serpent-like if it's going to be based on utility, I think. A turtle Dragon is the best thing I can think of for a defensive dragon, but that doesn't include poison (unless it's a breath attack ;/). We can work on a dragon next CAP project, just, we need a good utility pokemon, and I think Dark and Ground do that better.

Well a pokemon doesn't have to be entirely Defensive to make good use of utility moves. It can be balanced like Manaphy who can set up the Screens or Safeguard or at can lean to a more offensive build like Salamence or Starmie who can make good use of moves like Wish, Thunder Wave and Rapid Spin.

Simply put, a defensive design isn't a necessity if we want to give our pokemon defensive/utility moves.

 

[User 12783]

Dragon

 

[Knarglefigit]

Electric.
Garr, I think I got too excited and voted too early. The Ice weakness from Ground and Dragon has been increasingly bothering me, so I changed my vote to Electric now. It's what I wanted in the previous thread.

 

[IAmTheWalrus]

Dragon because I can see it switching in a lot, and also because I'm bandwagoning my vote. However, I'm excited to see the art if Dragon gets picked.

 

[1059860]

Electric

 

[Gaborik]

Dragon

It would give our artists something pretty awesome to make, but that isn't relevant really. My reasoning would be that Utility pokemon want to have solid resistances be able to exploit and have the ability to swap in repeatedly. Dragon typing gives it that ability without giving it a horrid 4x ground weakness

 

[T-STRAD]

Poison/Dark
With it's Dark side their is the possibility that we could have it learn Dark Void or the several Dark attacks that lower the stats of the opponents Pokemon. As long as we give it the ability to use Dark Void we could bring in the chance to use many of the available poison moves to weaken and destroy the team. (If he gets Dark Void it should only have up to 3 PP on the move so it is not over powered like Darkrai.)

Sorry if you don't understand i am still half asleep.

 

[Majesano]

GROUND

yeah good job latino heat. VERY good reasoning...
please read latino heat's post before voting dragon.