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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 10 (Support Moves Poll)

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I just realized something about Tailwind....How does Poekmon like Butterfree, Pelipper, and Pidgot even use it? Several people say that they're controlling the winds behind them, but never explained how they do it or how they even start one up? It even make less sense on Butterfree since butterflies aren't the sturdiest flier around. Wouldn't a turbulent whirlwind possible kill are insect friend via blowing it around like a ragdoll?

ParadOxymoron said:
Four birds, a butterfly, and an avatar of the north wind. If it's not flapping your wings, its controlling the wind with your legendary powers. There's just no way this thing can learn Tailwind.
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Wouldn't flapping your wings to create a gust of wind be interpreted as Whirlwind or Gust? Suicune and Xatu works because they can actually control the wind to a certain extent. The others are a bit vague on how they do it.
 
Wish - Yes
Slack Off - No
Block/Spider Web - Yes
Tailwind - Yes
Gravity - Yes
Heal Block - Undecided
Yawn - No

Wish- I don't think there's anything too overpowering about Wish on this. It's utility, and that's this Pokemon's middle name.

Slack Off- Wish is enough for healing outside of possible Rest.

Block/Spider Web- Whether it's shooting webs from it's ass or one of its "hand gems," or it's using its giant hands to physically block retreat; I think either move will work with this guy.

Tailwind- I'm only saying yes for the effect. Perhaps creating a new move would help...Super Spin (maybe?)

Gravity- Agreed with above posters, this was one of biggest reasons for Mr. Utility here. The gem/spot on its head can easily "control" gravity.

Heal Block- I don't know enough about how this attack works to have an opinion, so I can't decide either way.

Yawn- No. Everyone is wanting this not to have any status moves, yet people ask for this? WTF?


SkarmBlissCounter said:
A tailwind is created when something moving very fast creates a drag effect behind it, which speeds up things which are travelling directly behind it. Hence why F1 cars travel faster when they are in packs together.
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If that's the case, why don't Swellow and Staraptor have this attack?
 
Wish - Yes ( before my vote was No, I changed it to Yes )
Slack Off - No
Block/Spider Web- Yes
Tailwind - Yes
Gravity - Yes
Heal Block - No
Yawn - No

I don't think this should get any sort of healing move, so that rules out Wish and the 50% recovery. Yes to the blocking move, I don`t see the harm in it. If we decide it's broken with Encore ( preferably after actual testing ), we can make them incompatible with each other.

Tailwind I support because it was emphasized in the concept description and because it is so severely ignored in the current metagame. The flavour for Tailwind can make sense if we use the phenomenon of ballooning in baby spiders for a pre-evo for it. This actually fits in with the explanation for other users such as Pidgeot and Pelipper, that wind from the behind aids in flight ( wind from the behind is necessary for ballooning ). Failing all this reasoning, we can still create a move with the same effects and a different name/type, as others suggested.

Gravity requires a bit of stretching but it's another competetive thing like Tailwind so I think it`s worth the stretching ( it's less stretching than for Tailwind if you ask me ). DLL is not nearly supernatural enough to use Heal Block, does not fit. I'd like to avoid Yawn + speed + Vital Spirit incongruencies, so no for that, too.
 
I don't see why Tailwind is hard to conceive flavor-wise.

The thing has 8 huge hands.

It takes the two back ones, and kind of pushes the air behind it really fast.

Difficult to explain how I picture it, but it makes sense in my head. =X
 
Wish - No - This guy isn't magicky enough to have something like this.
Slack Off - No - It has vital spirit; this thing doesn't loaf around like a Slakoth...
Block/Spider Web - Yes - IMO, it should have both; it can block with hands, but can make a web (I know, it doesn't need them though).
Tailwind - Yes - As much as I don't like the idea of it getting Tailwind, I can see it with Rapid Spin and they go hand in hand flavorwise (pardon the pun).
Gravity - Yes - Again, don't like the idea of it getting this, but from the description of the move, why can't it hold somebody down that tries to fly away?
Heal Block - No - Doesn't fit mechanically or for flavor.
Yawn - Yes - Everybody can yawn...
 
If I ever hear the word flavor again and how something doesn't fit because of it, it'll be too soon.

We vote on an ability... that INCLUDES Tailwind/Heal Block/Gravity... and then we don't give it those moves because of... FLAVOR!? I've never been so turned off the CAP project before, but I will vote nonetheless.

I'm not going to bother giving reasoning... no one ever listens anyway. It wouldn't make sense for me to give reasoning anyway... doesn't have the necessary flavor.

But I will say that I make these votes from a competetive battling standpoint... not fucking whether or not it makes sense that it can produce a Tailwind.

....

Dynamic Punch Wooper is all I'm gonna say.

Wish- Yes
Slack Off- No
Block/Spider Web- No
Tailwind- YES
Gravity- YES
Heal Block- YES
Yawn- No
 
Wish - Yes/No
I can see this thing praying as wish. It also gives it access to soem form of recovery without it being fast recovery.

Slack Off - Yes/No
No, fast + instant 50% recovery move is not a good idea. Most pokemon with Recover are either slow or super frail.

Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Sure, as long as the moveset (Trap)/Encore/Mirror Coat/Counter is not possible.

Tailwind - Yes/No
No, no, no... potentially very overpower + lacking flavor.

Gravity - Yes/No
Indifferent

Heal Block - Yes/No
This + extended duration worries me.

Yawn - Yes/No
indifferent
 
Wish - Yes/No - It doesn't fit the criteria. If we wanted a Wisher, you should've vote for a different design.
Slack Off - Yes/No - No healing outside of Rest, I think
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No - Either one fits flavorwise
Tailwind - Yes/No - Don't even get me started. If this gets Tailwind, I'll go crazy. It's a ground type spider that hides UNDER THE GROUND.
Gravity - Yes/No - It doesn't work. I know a lot of people wanted it, but again, it doesn't work flavorwise, and if you wanted it to be an attack, you should've voted for a different design
Heal Block - Yes/No - Are people even looking for this?
Yawn - Yes/No - I haven't heard any good reasoning for why not.
 
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No Declining to answer
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No

Wish- I don't think is necessary.

I'm voting yes for Slack Off. When this switches in, it either disrupts the opponent (Encore/Blocking move etc.) or it sets up. Something with Taunt can easily come in and stop either one. Most importantly though, the thing that separates DLL from other utility pokemon like Porygon2/Bronzong is that Porygon2 and Bronzong only can really set up one or two things (Trick Room and Rain Dance). DLL's greatest aspect is its versatility, and once it has set up once, it loses a good amount of that. The only time you need to be healing is after you've tried to set up, and so healing means you're predictable. Even if it's hard to counter, it's predictable, and I think that justifies a healing move.

Don't want to answer about Block, but if it gets a trapping move, make it Block not Spider Web. I think that a fast Encorer/Blocker is just dangerous, especially since I vote yes for a healing move.

Tailwind and Gravity- We created an ability to boost them, I think we should give DLL these moves.

Heal Block - Doesn't fit flavorwise, and I don't want to make this things movepool too big. It's gonna be big, but remember Syclant? That thing is insane with moves like Light Screen and stuff, I know that Heal Block wouldn't be used too much but still.

Yawn - It's fast, it's defensive, I want it to have a healing move. It doesn't need a 100% accuracy Sleep move/Free Turn move.
 
LonelyNess, just because we want this Pokémon to have a scrap of cohesiveness to it doesn't mean we're a bunch of ninnies.

That said, I'm all for the compromise of an alternate-flavor Tailwind, as I've said before.
 
Wish-Yes
Slack Off-No
Block/Spider Web-Yes
Tailwind-No
Gravity-Yes
Heal Block-No
Yawn-No

Wish-Definately seems like it can use it and it fits perfectly with the utility aspect.

Slack Off-Wish is enough.

Block-This is like the 5th time I've said this, The DDL that Cartoons made cannot make a web. Block is not broken because you'll probably just end up using it on your opponent's counter.

Tailwind-I'd be fine with Whirlwind (and actually prefer it over Roar) but Tailwind just doesn't make any sense.

Gravity-Same as everyone else.

Heal Block-Only seems useful if your opponent has Rest as Toxic will kill them in the same amount of time whether they heal or not.

Yawn-I don't want this to have any sleeping move at all and Block+Yawn seems harder to counter than Block+Encore.
 
...

Are... are you serious!?

You think that if we give this Tailwind someone new to the project is going to be like

OMG!? WTF, THEY GAVE THIS SHIT TAILWIND!? WAT A BUNCH OF NUBLETS... I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THEY GAVE IT TAILWIND. THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL!!!11!! YOU GUYS ARE ALL STUPID... *continued noob rantings*

The cohesiveness is not going to all go to hell in a handbasket if we give it TAILWIND... Gah... give me a break.
 
ParadOxymoron said:
That said, I'm all for the compromise of an alternate-flavor Tailwind, as I've said before.
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If people are going to complain about having Persistent affect Tailwind and not giving it to him, I'm all for this too, although I'd prefer giving this guy a ballooning spider pre-evo, like X-Presumptuous suggested.
 
What I don't understand is why people say they don't want to give this pokemon a 50% recovery move. Most people are listing no then saying "I don't think it should have a healing move except rest" with no justification for it.

Its Defense is pretty good but it's Special Defense isn't exactly stellar so I don't see what the problem would be. I hardly think a 50% recovery move would make this pokemon overpowering.
 
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No

EDIT:
LonelyNess said:
We vote on an ability... that INCLUDES Tailwind/Heal Block/Gravity... and then we don't give it those moves because of... FLAVOR!? I've never been so turned off the CAP project before.
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I agree this this statement 100%.
 
Drakhun said:
No, fast + instant 50% recovery move is not a good idea. Most pokemon with Recover are either slow or super frail.
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Uh....these Pokemon would like to have a word with you since neither of them are slow nor super frail.

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Wish - Yes/No - We have plenty of viable Wishers, not sure if I want this thing to stick arounde ven longer.

Slack Off - Yes/No - Changed my mind. This allows it to better support the team, it's hardly broken, so why not.

Block/Spider Web - Yes/No - I could very easily see this being broken with Block.

Tailwind - Yes/No - "GAIS IT HAS NO WINGS!!"

Gravity - Yes/No - /running a Gravity team myself, I must say that their is a lack of viable Gravity users. Plus his ability takes advantage of it, so why not?

Heal Block - Yes/No - I'm on the fence about this one, but voting Yes.

Yawn - Yes/No - Yawn would be far too annoying for something so fast and with such good support options. Plus it would be very annoying with Block, if it were to learn it.
 
Would Persistent include Heal Block? I just ask because it seems like everything else it affects are field moves such as trick room or Tail Wind. Heal Block seems like a pseudo status, since it wears off when the target switches out. It seems like Persistent wouldn't apply.
 
Wish - Yes/No - A must have, even if it is too slow working.
Slack Off - Yes/No - Recover would be batter
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No - haven't decided. Will this be getting Encore?
Tailwind - Yes/No - Way too sweepish, plus it doesn't fit
Gravity - Yes/No - Again, too sweepish
Heal Block - Yes/No - Forgot about Heal Block... would be nice
Yawn - Yes/No - Works too slowly, too easily counterable unless you have Block/Spider Web up and running
 
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
 
LonelyNess said:
...

Are... are you serious!?

You think that if we give this Tailwind someone new to the project is going to be like

OMG!? WTF, THEY GAVE THIS SHIT TAILWIND!? WAT A BUNCH OF NUBLETS... I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THEY GAVE IT TAILWIND. THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL!!!11!! YOU GUYS ARE ALL STUPID... *continued noob rantings*

The cohesiveness is not going to all go to hell in a handbasket if we give it TAILWIND... Gah... give me a break.
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What's the matter with you? Stop acting like one of those twelve year olds on Halo, calling us all a bunch of noobs.

If you really don't care about flavor, then do what Frosty did and just say so. Don't go on acting like anybody who gives a shit about flavor is a douchebag for even talking about it. Flavor matters, man! I come from You Make the Card, where flavor really is half the battle, but I understand that this is Pokémon, not Magic the Gathering, and flavor matters a lot less. But it still matters a little. To say that flavor doesn't matter at all and that we can just go ahead and give this any old move is simply an irresponsible way of going about the process of creating a Pokémon. I mean, this is common sense. Rhyperior can learn Surf, but he sure as hell can't learn Psychic.
 
Wish - Yes/No Sounds like support to me
Slack Off - Yes/No I think it needs to stay alive to do support
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No Why? It's not a baton pass Pokemon
Tailwind - Yes/No Obviously a support move
Gravity - Yes/No See "Tailwind"
Heal Block - Yes/No You could give it this move, but no one uses it anyway
Yawn - Yes/No I think Phazing is is support (especially with Spikes/Stealth Rock/Poison Spikes up
 
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
 
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
 
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