Adaptation of Obi Stall for a Specific Wifi Environment

[Lachrymal Lamentations]

I love stall strategy, but I found that my mostly stall team had a few bugs that could easily be worked out with better type synergy. Then it occurred to me that it was far too similar to Obi's stall team. Can you help me to bring it away from there?

Something about the wifi environment I play in: no pokemon with base stat totals 600 or higher are allowed. This removes Garchomp, Dragonite, Metagross, Salamence, Tyranitar, and all legendaries excepting Articuno, Moltres, Zapdos, Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Azelf, Mesprit and Uxie (we call them 'trio' legendaries) from the environment.

Here are the goals of this team: Have someone with Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Toxic, Roar/Whirlwind/Haze/Yawn, Rapid Spin, Wish, Rest/Sleep Talk, Protect. Have a ghost to block Rapid Spin. Have as many members with reliable recovery as possible, and to keep these moves spread across many pokemon to keep the team from crashing and burning if a single pokemon is too important. Forretress with Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin is too risky.

The problem with setting my standards this high is that there is a very limited number of options to accomplish most of these things, so Obi's team ended up being statistically the single best way to use this strategy. In my environment, though, I don't have to be able to do quite all of the things he did, so I have more room for error. I'm trying to accomplish all of that in a more original way, but I'm not sure how.

Any suggestions for EVs, or more original ways to accomplish the goals are welcome. Also, where I have "Item," that's a Leftovers that I wish had an alternative for so I can use Item Clause.

The team:

Impish Hippowdon @ Item
252 HP / 16 ATK / 152 Def / 88 SpD
-Earthquake
-Roar/Protect
-Slack Off
-Stealth Rock

The only thing in the environment with Sand Stream. Non-negotiable.

Impish Skarmory @ Shed Shell
252 HP / 96 ATK / 156 DEF / 4 SPE
-Brave Bird
-Spikes
-Whirlwind
-Roost

For a Spiker, the choice is between Skarmory or Forretress. Skarmory has reliable recovery, and I may not be able to get Wish Blissey, so Skarmory it is.

Impish Tangrowth @ Big Root
252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe
-Power Whip
-Knock Off
-Leech Seed
-Sleep Powder

It's not Celebi, but Tangrowth is good overall support. It counters Gyarados moderately well. Leech Seed racks up more passive damage, Knock Off removes Leftovers that negate Sand Stream, and Sleep Powder shuts down things that are immune to poison.

Calm Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
252 HP / 84 SpA / 172 SpD
-Surf
-Sludge Bomb
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin

Since the only viable users of Toxic Spikes in OU are Forretress and Tentacruel, Tentacruel gets the nod for its fire resist rather than Forretress contributing to a widely shared Fire weakness.

Calm Blissey @ Item
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
-Wish/Softboiled if I can’t get Wish
-Protect
-Flamethrower
-Toxic

Since Wish Blissey is virtually a myth, I'm trying to think of another option. Umbreon might work, as it gets Wish Protect and Toxic as well as the possible Pursuit/Yawn/Baton Pass/Taunt/Confuse Ray. The type synergy is nearly the same, as the extra Bug weakness is easily handled by Skarmory and Tentacruel. I would need a better way to deal with Steels though, and Umbreon can't wall like Blissey can.

Vaporeon is also a bulky Wish user, but its uses are limited when on the same team as Tentacruel. However, with Wish support, Forretress is then more viable.

Calm Spiritomb @ Item

252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power Fighting
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

As far as bulky Ghosts to block Rapid Spin, it's Spiritomb or Dusknoir. Dusknoir would have Fire Punch to help with steels if I lose Blissey, but I would then have four physical attackers and one/two special attackers, making any offense even more difficult.

Unfortunately for the sake of originality, there aren't many alternatives to the pokemon Obi chose. To try to do the things his team did with any other combination of pokemon in OU is virtually impossible. If it weren't for the restricted environment in which I play, I wouldn't be able to even entertain the idea of switching them out, because these pokemon really are the best combination that can be put together.

Thanks for putting up with me and my ignorance.

 

[picklesword]

You need descriptions on your pokes, not sure how the heck you got a legal blissey with calm and wish that might be good. Especially for WIFI enviroment. Suicide leads could cause problems. Spiritomb wants will o wisp really ( my personal preference ). CM set might be better on tomb as Calm mind provokes physical sweepers, next move is will o wisp to burn them.

 

[Lachrymal Lamentations]

You need descriptions on your pokes, not sure how the heck you got a legal blissey with calm and wish that might be good. Especially for WIFI enviroment. Suicide leads could cause problems. Spiritomb wants will o wisp really ( my personal preference ). CM set might be better on tomb as Calm mind provokes physical sweepers, next move is will o wisp to burn them.

I don't have a Wish Blissey, nor did I ever say so, but thanks for your concern.

Also, I'm looking to change pokemon more than movesets. I know the movesets are good since most of this team is plagiarized at this point.

 

[Fatal Edge]

This thread is gonna be locked but I guess I'll help a little lol.

*trys to act like Obi*

Give blissey HP Ground to knock out Heatran. xD

SDHera weak. You're giving it +1 atk and then it gets a SD which gives it +3 atk. Game over for you. Gliscor seems like the obvious option or Nidoqueen. Your choice.

 

[Lachrymal Lamentations]

This thread is gonna be locked but I guess I'll help a little lol.

*trys to act like Obi*

Give blissey HP Ground to knock out Heatran. xD

SDHera weak. You're giving it +1 atk and then it gets a SD which gives it +3 atk. Game over for you. Gliscor seems like the obvious option or Nidoqueen. Your choice.

Why would it be locked? Is there something wrong with an ignorant person asking for help?

Fortunately Heatran is a non-issue.

I do fear Heracross, but I think Skarmory can handle it. I have a Gliscor on three of my teams, but here I think it's too difficult to incorporate Gliscor into the passive damage strategy. I could put Gliscor instead of Skarmory with SR/Roost/AA/EQ, switch Hippowdon for Forretress with Spikes, and then try to incorporate another Ice attack and Phaze somewhere else. It's something to consider, but I don't know how viable it is.

 

[Noobdemon]

I think he is referring to how you have to type an actual description of each poke, like why its on your team and not just stuff like 'standard'. Anyway Skarmory gets 2HKO'd by Heracross's Close Combat. Also I don't understand why your trying to limit yourself by doing things like banning the psuedo-legendaries and the non-Uber legendaries and Item Clause.

 

[Chileno4Live]

First of all, you might wanna read the rules on: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19179 Lemme quote what rule you should read:

3. Have some actual words in your post beyond your six Pokemon and their moves. Not following this makes your post quite boring to read and rate. All Pokemon should have a good reason for being in your team anyway, so why not post that reason? If you're having trouble with this one, start by giving an explanation for each team member. Why are they there? What role do they serve? How do you get them in? Then, give an explanation of how you would open with the team and how you would go about using it. All of these things help people rate your team and allow us to offer more helpful advice.

Now that's done, i can rate your team.

Tangrowth is a good pokemon but it lacks a recovery move, if i where you i just would use Celebi over it. Probably a standard T-Wave Celebi. On spiritomb you can go Chesto Berry if you don't want leftovers, it's usefull with Rest so you wake up immidiatly without having to wait 2 turns. I don't know what you can put for Hippowdon maybe Muscle Band as it does something.

Well i find the EVs on skarmory weird, 1. Because you didn't explain why you used that EV spread and 2. i don't think it can be that usefull. Just use 252/252 hp/def.

Overall a nice team.

 

[obi]

He can't use Celebi under his rule set.

With Salamence, Garchomp, and Dragonite all banned, I'm not so sure that Ice Fang is the best option for Hippowdon. I mean, sure, it really does help a lot against Zapdos, but you also have Blissey and Spiritomb. The only way Zapdos is beating Blissey is if it has Substitute or Rest. If it has Substitute, it can be worn down by Stealth Rock, unless it has Roost. If it has Roost, then you can still beat it with Hippowdon by using Earthquake on the Roost. If it has Rest + Sleep Talk, you can still win, you'll just have to stall it out with Hippowdon, Blissey, and Spiritomb (and possibly get in a Leech Seed with Tangrowth if you can risk an HP Ice; bring it in on a Rest, then Leech Seed as it Sleep Talks). I recommend using Roar over Ice Fang.

Ignore the HP Ground Blissey guy. You already have Tentacruel for Heatran (and unless it's Specs, it fails to OHKO Hippowdon).

I do, however, recommend maxing Tentacruel's HP. This will let you take Infernape's Close Combats easier. Drop the Speed completely and some of the SpA to do so. There is no Tyranitar, so beating 243 Speed is irrelevant. Your current EVs also have you being OHKOed by Jolly Lucario SD Close Combat nearly 50% of the time. If you max HP, it gives you a a last-line-of-defense kind of thing against Lucario if you keep Tentacruel healthy (you're OHKOed only 20.5% of the time). Not a huge issue for Lucario in particular, but it's always nice to have some more defense against it. The main reason, like I said, is to take Infernape Close Combats like a champ.

With no Salamence to worry about, Sludge Bomb might be a good choice on Tentacruel. It still hits Grass-types a lot harder than Ice Beam, and it also covers Gyarados a bit better (with that nice chance to poison, too... I wouldn't worry about it blocking Blissey's Toxic). Of course, this does leave you open to guys like Flygon, but Surf does quite a bit to that, and it's not like Hippowdon and Skarmory don't already wall it pretty much 100%.

Also why do you want to use Item Clause? Lacking Leftovers on all of these Pokemon that don't resist SS seems dangerous.

 

[Lachrymal Lamentations]

First of all, you might wanna read the rules on: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19179 Lemme quote what rule you should read:



Now that's done, i can rate your team.

Tangrowth is a good pokemon but it lacks a recovery move, if i where you i just would use Celebi over it. Probably a standard T-Wave Celebi. On spiritomb you can go Chesto Berry if you don't want leftovers, it's usefull with Rest so you wake up immidiatly without having to wait 2 turns. I don't know what you can put for Hippowdon maybe Muscle Band as it does something.

Well i find the EVs on skarmory weird, 1. Because you didn't explain why you used that EV spread and 2. i don't think it can be that usefull. Just use 252/252 hp/def.

Overall a nice team.

Meh. It's not really my team yet. They're really not my descriptions to write, other than to point out the obvious. I could say, Hippowdon is there to be a physical wall and to set up Stealth Rock, but isn't that obvious?

These are the EV spreads off of the Strategy Pokedex. Once again, it'd just be plagiarism. I'm asking for help here, not trying to inform.

 

[Lachrymal Lamentations]

I think he is referring to how you have to type an actual description of each poke, like why its on your team and not just stuff like 'standard'. Anyway Skarmory gets 2HKO'd by Heracross's Close Combat. Also I don't understand why your trying to limit yourself by doing things like banning the psuedo-legendaries and the non-Uber legendaries and Item Clause.

When you remove the most powerful attackers, you remove some of the cliches of the OU tier and increase the viability of BLs and UUs for the people that want to experiment with them. It makes it less of a death wish to attempt to use things like Absol that are cool but limited in their uses. It's a less competitive perspective.

 

[Lachrymal Lamentations]

He can't use Celebi under his rule set.

With Salamence, Garchomp, and Dragonite all banned, I'm not so sure that Ice Fang is the best option for Hippowdon. I mean, sure, it really does help a lot against Zapdos, but you also have Blissey and Spiritomb. The only way Zapdos is beating Blissey is if it has Substitute or Rest. If it has Substitute, it can be worn down by Stealth Rock, unless it has Roost. If it has Roost, then you can still beat it with Hippowdon by using Earthquake on the Roost. If it has Rest + Sleep Talk, you can still win, you'll just have to stall it out with Hippowdon, Blissey, and Spiritomb (and possibly get in a Leech Seed with Tangrowth if you can risk an HP Ice; bring it in on a Rest, then Leech Seed as it Sleep Talks). I recommend using Roar over Ice Fang.

Ignore the HP Ground Blissey guy. You already have Tentacruel for Heatran (and unless it's Specs, it fails to OHKO Hippowdon).

I do, however, recommend maxing Tentacruel's HP. This will let you take Infernape's Close Combats easier. Drop the Speed completely and some of the SpA to do so. There is no Tyranitar, so beating 243 Speed is irrelevant. Your current EVs also have you being OHKOed by Jolly Lucario SD Close Combat nearly 50% of the time. If you max HP, it gives you a a last-line-of-defense kind of thing against Lucario if you keep Tentacruel healthy (you're OHKOed only 20.5% of the time). Not a huge issue for Lucario in particular, but it's always nice to have some more defense against it. The main reason, like I said, is to take Infernape Close Combats like a champ.

With no Salamence to worry about, Sludge Bomb might be a good choice on Tentacruel. It still hits Grass-types a lot harder than Ice Beam, and it also covers Gyarados a bit better (with that nice chance to poison, too... I wouldn't worry about it blocking Blissey's Toxic). Of course, this does leave you open to guys like Flygon, but Surf does quite a bit to that, and it's not like Hippowdon and Skarmory don't already wall it pretty much 100%.

Also why do you want to use Item Clause? Lacking Leftovers on all of these Pokemon that don't resist SS seems dangerous.

Thankfully, few people on wifi have the patience to SR for HP Ice, so Zapdos is not something I have to be too concerned about.

Heatran is conveniently banned, so you can trust that I wasn't considering HP Ground Blissey all that strongly.

Thank you for addressing EVs. I really have no clue with EV spreads. I'm a strategy person, not a statistics person. Thanks for the direction. I'll mess with it.

I guess at this point I should go through a threat list. I would think that I use Ice attacks for more than just Dragons, but perhaps that isn't accurate. Water/Poison does get good coverage.

It's not so much that I want to use Item Clause, but it's a general rule in the environment. People don't enjoy fighting teams of six Focus Sashers, and although with Sand Stream this team wouldn't have a problem with it, other people would expect it of me. I'm just looking for alternatives. You can trust that I'll be filling those with Leftovers whenever I can get away with it.

 

[obi]

Ice hits Grass, Flying, Ground, and Dragon SE. Surf covers Ground, Sludge Bomb covers Grass, and the useful Dragons are banned (other than Flygon and Kingdra, who isn't weak to Ice). Water is only resisted by Dragon and Water. As I said, the useful Dragons are banned (and Flygon doesn't even resist Water, while Sludge Bomb still covers Kingdra better than Ice Beam), and Sludge Bomb also hits Waters harder.

That just leaves Flying Pokemon, Flygon, and Quagsire, really. To be honest, Tentacruel will hurt most of them with Sludge Bomb harder than Ice Beam, and it should only be fighting them if your primary counter is dead.

Consider the case of Togekiss. If you have Blissey, you should be going to that and using Toxic. If Blissey is dead, you just about as well off trying to Poison it with Sludge Bomb as going for the slightly stronger Ice Beam (only a 33.3% increase in strength).

Zapdos is once against stopped by Hippowdon, Blissey, and Spiritomb to such an extent that you don't need to worry about hitting it harder on the switch with Ice Beam.

Gyarados is hit harder by Sludge Bomb than Ice Beam, anyway.

Those are all of the remaining "OU" Pokemon (not sure which Pokemon would be truly OU under this environment, so I just got the numbers from the Shoddy data). In other words, barring some strange type combination I forgot about, in OU, only Zapdos and Togekiss are hit harder by Ice Beam than Sludge Bomb and Surf.