True, but even so we can solve this with a poll asking the role for Farfetch'd's evo, not necessitating a complete redo.
EDIT: I'm going to bed. It's 3 am and I stayed up longer than I intended tonight. Work tomorrow as well...
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EVO 1 - Process Vote
- Thread starter DougJustDoug
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True, but even so we can solve this with a poll asking the role for Farfetch'd's evo, not necessitating a complete redo.
EDIT: I'm going to bed. It's 3 am and I stayed up longer than I intended tonight. Work tomorrow as well...
When you say that I'm "insulting" you, you add a motive that isn't there. I didn't make that post because I'm out to get you. You know this and it shouldn't have to be explained. Also there is not a doubt in my mind that if a random from Serebii made the same topic, it would be laughed off.
That's all well and good, but you didn't give this a chance at all. Once again, whether or not you think the results of this are negative is open to interpretation.
Obviously my point is that it shouldn't be happening.
This drama alone is a reason for backing down.
Well then you don't have a valid point, you're just trying to ruin the project. Are you seriously admitting to this?
Edit: This is a pretty poor use of sarcasm. Seems like it was just a way to escape the questioin really.
This is an opinion, not a fact. You will also be upsetting many other people who believe that they're right if you overturn this poll.
This is something that I agree with, and you should've made this point before.
Almost none of these people are ever coming on the server. Why they even support the redo god knows why.
I really, really do think it's a valid point that we're going against the wishes of the community because of a rigid process, and there were MANY civil ways to make this point. Instead, it seems like a bunch of people just want to come in here and make a mockery of the entire process and even SABOTAGE THE PROJECT. That's horrible and I don't even understand how you can justify this.
I don't have any intention of continuing with an argument if all it'll be is an emotion-driven back-and-forth. If you want to respond to me in a civil, logical way then by all means. However I suggest that we seriously look at how this is being handled.
I was paying attention to it, however, as any programmer will tell you: some bugs you never think to check for until after release.
People, realize that Gorm said he wants there to be a bigger difference between CAP and EVO. He isn't trying to sabotage either, he just wants EVO to be more than a CAP in disguise. And I agree with that. I'll admit, CAP never really interested me, which is why I never came out of my self-imposed hiatus to participate in it. However, I am very intrigued by the EVO process and would most likely try to be involved in the entire planning process, or at least as much of it as possible.
I think EVO has the capability to bring in a lot of people who wouldn't have been interested in the regular CAP project.
I think EVO has the capability to bring in a lot of people who wouldn't have been interested in the regular CAP project.
Cause its not like gorm is a sarcastic person or anything....
what ? you told me the only reason i was gettgin recognition is because im known. that means taht my reasoning ahd nothing to do with it. thanks.
it didnt happen. i made it and people listented to me.
it is happening i dont really care what you think should be happening if you're not going to do anything about it besides call me an egotistical maniac bent on controlling this forum
i am sabotaging a shitty process. the idea is to get a better one
see previous sentence.
i dont care if they believe theyre right and i dont care if people are insulted. id rather people be more excited bout a new process and thinking up new niches acording to the framework established by the artic one than focusing on my opsts as if i havent freaking put a otn of work into all of this.
listen, if you have a problem with randoms voting , suggest a change to the process like i did.
i want to make it better than whatever you all designed it to do (cap+flavour). i am making it better. i have dont this entirely through discussion and changing peoples minds. my ends and my means are on the table.
im really being civil pretty much throughout, and i have reason to be frustrated at you for saying i get special treatment like people are afraid to disagree with me and i dont need any clout to my argument
Sure, Gorm admits to sabotaging the project, but this was apparently such a problem with so many people that this was going to happen EVENTUALLY.
Surely it's better that this happens now when the project is relatively new and more open to debate than later when the process is more set in stone and there is likely to be more conflict with people not wanting to change the process, right?
Right?
I really hope that some important lesson is learned as a result of this and that the EVO project will be better off because of it. As a member of Smogon, I want to be proud to have Smogon associated with the CAP project.
If this turns into a disgrace, then I have no doubt that Smogon's reputation as a respected community will take a hit. It's crucial that the CAP project avoids these issues whenever possible and continues to be a success.
Surely it's better that this happens now when the project is relatively new and more open to debate than later when the process is more set in stone and there is likely to be more conflict with people not wanting to change the process, right?
Right?
I really hope that some important lesson is learned as a result of this and that the EVO project will be better off because of it. As a member of Smogon, I want to be proud to have Smogon associated with the CAP project.
If this turns into a disgrace, then I have no doubt that Smogon's reputation as a respected community will take a hit. It's crucial that the CAP project avoids these issues whenever possible and continues to be a success.
you take offense to people supposedly insulting you yet you insist on insulting
/facepalm
Me too. My God, this is not 1984.
Also, yeah, if a Serebii random made that thread, people would laugh it off. People take Gorm seriously because he's known to be a good user. There's nothing wrong with that at all. It has nothing to do with Gorm being Gorm. It just has to do with the fact he is good at reasoning and hence people will continue to listen to his reasoning, which is still good as usual, when he posts it. Can you people lay off? He didn't make darkie and Doug post this. They're open to change and more flexible than some of the people here.
when i say cap as it is in unimportant? im sorry but prove me wrong? id say the bulk of smogon considers cap *not important* as fasr as site contribution goes
youre in a subforum with C&C, the definition of adding to the site. people talking, people writing analyses, discussions...
here we have what? vote for your fave pic/dream stat spread. but it belongs more in somewhere social for that...
wouldnt you guys ratherb be looked upon as *bringing something concrete* to smogon's intelectual bank?
im not saying the caps have been worthless as fasr as work consideration put in.. they just have an extremely ambiguous... actual function as far as *site project*
the EVO project is flawed and yes, suffers from extreme fanboyism due to the attention it brought
but id strongly suggest you look back on the creation process of past CAPs before you go around saying shit like this
I keep wanting to support you Gorm, but the way you go about making your point just makes it hard to.
I've thought this over and it probably is better to fix the EVO process now.
But for you to question what we contribute to Smogon, when we never really asked for this? chaos just kind gave us a subforum that happened to be under C&C. I've always wondered why we were put here too, especially considering all of the Mission Statement stuff came about after we had our own subforum.
I've thought this over and it probably is better to fix the EVO process now.
But for you to question what we contribute to Smogon, when we never really asked for this? chaos just kind gave us a subforum that happened to be under C&C. I've always wondered why we were put here too, especially considering all of the Mission Statement stuff came about after we had our own subforum.
you editted in that last blurb to your previous post whilst i was writing mine. thanks for the clarification. the way you worded it before the edit was implying that no effort/discussion went into past CAPs when that is clearly not the case
i had a couple paragraphs here about CAPs importance to smogon, but i was running myself in circles so ill just leave it alone
its gonna be hard/different, man up ^_^
i disagree. why would we stop the momentum of intereset associated with this new way of approching evo.
if we run into more problems, we fix them like this one got fixed. lets give ourselves/darkie the benefit of the doubt in prototyping this new process.
lol you were given an oportunity to become relevant and i think it's time to sieze that.
I didn't really want to post in this thread, as I don't really want to get caught up in this mess, but I think this and this are pretty solid contributions CAP has made. It's X-Act's Stat Ratings system, and the guide he uses to explain the system. It's a very interesting system used to determine the statistical potential and strength of a single pokemon. Granted, they're both X-Act's contributions, but he's part of the CAP community after all, and he did make it with CAP primarily in mind. Of course, I could be completely off-base on that assumption, so someone feel free to correct me on this.
Also in full support of the_artic_one's process.
Also in full support of the_artic_one's process.
I voted to continue. Simply because there were people involved with the creation of the process and although there weren't very many, they were there doing their job. It is for us to reflect AFTER the project on its downfalls, not during the middle, ensuing chaos. Example this thread. Ignorance is not a Defence really, to say I didn't care but now I do care is a little rediculous, and can you not wait until the next EVO project to care. Much as I agree with Gormenghasts motives I believe we should continue to the end of this project before deciding to evaluate it.
I hope that my stats rating system is a "concrete benefit to smogon". I was going to post it in C&C, but decided to post it here because here the benefit is obvious. I hope you at least KNOW about it, since you strike me as knowing very little about CAP overall.
In your arguments about Camerupt being the ideal Pokemon to evolve, you assume that the CAP metagame is the same as the Standard metagame. It is not. There are 4 CAP Pokemon in this metagame that are not in Standard, two of which especially (Syclant and Revenankh) have impacted the metagame quite drastically. I don't know if you put them into your equation. I'm actually one of the people who can speak about this the least out of anyone here, since I've never played a CAP game, but have you? Do you know what the CAP metagame is, before saying that Camerupt is the ideal Pokemon to evolve? (Speaking of people playing on the CAP server, I appeal to everyone so that you actually do pay a visit to the server and play more games.)
Anyway, I don't mind what people do about this... in fact I won't even vote in this and let the people decide. However, I want to ask you (when I say you, I mean Gorm) directly what do you mean by a "Camerupt evo with Celebi-like defenses" that you suggested in the fifth post of your thread. Do you mean a Camerupt evo having a BSR as good as Celebi's? If that's the case, I don't think that would be acceptable by the community... just so you know.
EDIT: I want you to know that I know that your motives were for the good of CAP... however that's not the way you should have gone with posting your arguments. I'd say you'd first need to get a feel of how the process works here. As you might finally be understanding now, CAP is not a shithole where everyone can post their stupid ideas in a free-for-all attitude. I'm not saying that you did this... what I'm saying is that here isn't the shithole you might have thought it is. We actually decide to do things in an orderly fashion, and sometimes apply hard mathematics (for the base stats, especially) so that what we create are Pokemon having already a few hard facts about them. So, while we welcome you to the CAP subforum (we want more badgeholders to actually contribute to CAP, so thanks for contributing), we'd want people to get a feel of how we have a well-structured plan of everything before we act, so your thread struck me as a bit premature, which is something I didn't like too much.
The problem with this argument is, as X-Act just pointed out, that the CAP Metagame is not the same as Standard OU. By definition, a pokemon created by the evolution project is essentially part of the CAP metagame. The main difference is that the concept, or as darkie would say, the "niche", along many other things, are already defined. It's not starting from scratch like with any other CAP, but it will still be a part of the current CAP metagame, not standard.
That's especially why I and many other past CAP contributors in this thread feel offended by the notion of restarting the entire process because someone disagrees with poll results -- Many people who support restarting the process, including yourself, have not been involved in the CAP project, and for the most part, have hardly played the CAP metagame at all. I can accept restarting the process if it is because the "process is fundamentally flawed", as darkie argue. However, if that is the case, then we shouldn't even be talking about "why Camerupt is better than pokemon x" in our arguments. It's not even about that anymore. Maybe it's ok if the Evolution Project was independent of the CAP project. But the fact is it isn't.
I'm going off to bitch about Gordon Brown being the prime minister of the UK now.
Yes he was elected democratically but it's just because people didn't want the other guy so Fuck democracy, lets redo the whole thing.
Oh wait, only Gormenghast can do this....
I don't think you've paid attention to what people have said here. It is not the choice that peple are against. It is the process that was used to get the final choice that people had a problem with, which leant itself to fanboyism and no specific goal to aim for. If you look a few pages back (I use 40 posts per page, so i dont know how far back it is) you can see the_artic_one's suggestion for how we should do it diffrently, much more akin to the CAP project and giving the project a set goal.
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