ADV Sandslash

Heysup

Heysup

is a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
RUPL Champion
Well, this is my first Peer edit, so I appologize in advance for any grammatical errors, and technical errors. I know that people dont usually play Adv too often anymore, but i still think its worth it to add on even for the small population(and a fair amount of them play [UU]). Now, i know there is a small write up at the bottom of the page for counter, but i dont think it does it justice, especially without EV help and Calculations. I realize "we dont want write ups for one more move", but these EVs, and playstyle are very very different from the squishy Swords Dance/Spinner sets, while keeping the general usefullness of Sandslash, which is STAB Earthquakes.
028sandslash.png

http://www.smogon.com/rs/pokemon/sandslash
[SET]
name: CounterSlash
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Counter
move 4: Rock Slide / Hidden Power Bug / Hidden Power Ghost
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 36 SpD / 148 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is designed to specifically counter some of the biggest threats in the UU metagame, while still being able to get most of the 2HKOs and OHKOs that it needs to. Counter is a great addition to the sweeper set, as it allows Sandslash to destroy many of the grass pokemon which normally stop it, since to their strongest move is Hidden Power Grass, which can be countered. The basic strategy is to bring Sandslash in on a weak physical attack such as rock slide, or any electric attack. Swords Dance on the switch and then start sweeping. This set allows you to take out Blastoise, Walrein, and Meganium - all common switch-ins to sandslash -and continue sweeping what you can. Greedy Gligars also get taken out it they try to KO with only +2 or +4 Atk (depending on EVs and nature of the Gligar).</p>

<p>Another bonus is that with the 252 HP EVs, and 36 SpD EVs you always survive various STAB Surfs and Ice Beams, while being faster and and being able to 2HKO. For example, you can Swords Dance on your opponent's switch to Walrein or Blastoise, and then hit it for a 2HKO with Rock Slide (only on Walrein) or Earthquake, and live through the Surf / Ice Beam to hit them for the KO. Additionally, Sandslash will always survive a Timid Manectric's Hidden Power even after a Petaya boost, as well as almost always surviving a Timid Electabuzz's Ice Punch after a Petaya boost.</p>

<p>Rock Slide is the preferred move in the 4th slot, because it has the flinch rate, and Sandslash is able to outspeed most walls. It also allows Sandslash to take out fliers and Levitators that would not take themselves out with Counter, such as Misdreavus and Xatu, but more importantly, Altaria (which is outsped by this variant of Sandslash, allowing you to Rock Slide and possibly flinch before you get hit with Haze or Perish Song). Furthermore, it helps with Scyther and Yanma, not allowing them to set up while you try to Counter. Hidden Power Bug hits Grass types that do not attack with Hidden Power Grass, such as Bellosom and Tangela, and can hit Meganium hard if it uses Light Screen or Leech Seed. Hidden Power Bug also hits Solrock / Lunatone for super effective damage. Hidden Power Ghost, on the other hand, hits not only the previously mentioned Lunatone / Solrock for super effective damage, but also Misdreavus and Xatu as well. Counter takes care of Fearow, so it is not a big trouble if it walls those two attacks. It should be noted, however, that Rock Slide does have lower accuracy than Hidden Power</p>


I notice it is long, im not sure how to shorten it without leaving anything out though...

Alternate names could be welcome, because this sandslash not only is used for the move "Counter", it can get rid of a teams Bulky water, special sweepers and other walls. I'd almost suggest the name "SuperSlash" :D.
 
Some quick improvements
hp --> HP
atk --> Atk
Spd --> Spe
SDef --> SpD
ohkos, 2hkos --> OHKOes , 2HKOes etc.

Don't bracket Hidden Power types, like Hidden Power [Bug] should be Hidden Power Bug.

Capitalize Pokemon as well.

Besides those few formatting errors this seems like a good write up. I'll look it over more carefully later for content / grammar etc. Skimming it looks good for a first try though :)

Edit: try reading this over: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35397 It should be helpful.
 
You don't outspeed standard Blastoise with the given EVs which is pretty bad for starters, and you claim that you will always survive STAB Surfs from Blastoise, but from actually using a similar Sandslash set, and running calcs, I find this claim to be untrue.

You do have a chance to survive unboosted Surfs from Blastoise, as a Surf from standard Bold 68 SpA Blastoise will do 87.57% min, but 102.82% max.

When Torrent is factored in, things are even less pretty with Sandlash having no chance of survival with Torrent-boosted Surf doing 129.94% min, and 153.11% max.

I think this spread is a better way to go:

252 HP / 120 Atk / 78 Spe / 60 SpD with a Jolly Nature

It allows you to survive a Surf from Blastoise (non-Torrent boosted) just about, as you'll still be be hanging on for dear life after a Surf, with maximum damage coming out at 95.48%. It also enables you to still 2HKO Blastoise after a Swords Dance (Attack of 532 after Swords Dance), Finally it gives a speed of 203, just beating that of standard Blastoise's 202.

Sorry if I come across negatively, but with all things said, the set is a good addition to the analysis, seeing as majority of Sandslash are Rapid Spinners and/or Sword Dancers that can't really take such STAB special attacks.
 
[SET]
name: CounterSlash
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Counter
move 4: Rock Slide / Hidden Power Bug / Hidden Power Ghost
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP/ 136 Atk / 12 SpD / 108 Spe

Just added some spaces when needed
 
Time said:
You don't outspeed standard Blastoise with the given EVs which is pretty bad for starters, and you claim that you will always survive STAB Surfs from Blastoise, but from actually using a similar Sandslash set, and running calcs, I find this claim to be untrue.

You do have a chance to survive unboosted Surfs from Blastoise, as a Surf from standard Bold 68 SpA Blastoise will do 87.57% min, but 102.82% max.

When Torrent is factored in, things are even less pretty with Sandlash having no chance of survival with Torrent-boosted Surf doing 129.94% min, and 153.11% max.

I think this spread is a better way to go:

252 HP / 120 Atk / 78 Spe / 60 SpD with a Jolly Nature

It allows you to survive a Surf from Blastoise (non-Torrent boosted) just about, as you'll still be be hanging on for dear life after a Surf, with maximum damage coming out at 95.48%. It also enables you to still 2HKO Blastoise after a Swords Dance (Attack of 532 after Swords Dance), Finally it gives a speed of 203, just beating that of standard Blastoise's 202.

Sorry if I come across negatively, but with all things said, the set is a good addition to the analysis, seeing as majority of Sandslash are Rapid Spinners and/or Sword Dancers that can't really take such STAB special attacks.
Click to expand...

Wow, i looked at my blastoise, and assumed i took it off smogon, but i guess not....Thanks for pointing that out time. That EV set i was actually already looking at (well fairly similar), because of torrent, which i did realize last night, I activated with that amount of attack.

But on a side note, I dont think Sandslash needs 60 SDef EVs to survive the Standard Blastoise's Surf, where as thats sacrificing a ton of attack. From my calcs, it should only need 36 SpD evs, and that keeps it at 558 Attack after a swords dance, without hurting the basic purpose of Sandlash, which is dishing out powerful STAB Earthquakes. Also, your EV spread doesnt ALWAYS 2HKO Walrein, where as this one would;

252 HP / 72 Atk / 148 Spe / 36 SpD with Adamant Nature.

With this, i have the least amount of SpD evs that i need, as well as i still can dish out the powerful Earthquakes, while having 203 speed and ALWAYS 2HKOing Walrein and Blastoise(does 56%-65%, so no torrent). Ill edit that in now.(When i did my calcs before i forgot to take off "nature boost", so i appologize)

Edit: I did a NEW calc, and with my above spread, it always survives a timid Manectrics Hidden Power water/ice/grass after a petaya boostas well. (Also almost always survives an timid Electabuzz ice punch after a petaya boost, but its 85%-100%). Plus I beleive i fixed all of the changes everyone mentioned.

Edit2: Anyone else have any sort of nitpicks/problems? Time, do you see any problems with my slightly changed EV spread? Also added that it outspeeds the stalling/hazing altaria, where as the DDer isnt common, or a problem, but it still outsped.
 
<p>This set is designed to specifically counter some of the biggest threats in the UU metagame, while still being able to get most of the 2HKOs and OHKOs that it needs to. Counter is a great addition to the sweeper set, as it allows Sandslash to destroy many of the grass pokemon which normally stop it, since to their strongest move is Hidden Power Grass, which can be countered. The basic strategy is to bring Sandslash in on a weak physical attack such as rock slide, or any electric attack. Swords Dance on the switch and then start sweeping. This set allows you to take out Blastoise, Walrein, and Meganium - all common switch-ins to sandslash -and continue sweeping what you can. Greedy Gligars also get taken out it they try to KO with only +2 or +4 Atk (depending on EVs and nature of the Gligar).</p>

<p>Another bonus is that with the 252 HP EVs, and 36 SpD EVs you always survive various STAB Surfs and Ice Beams, while being faster and and being able to 2HKO. For example, you can Swords Dance on your opponents' switch to Walrein or Blastoise, and then hit it for a 2HKO with Rock Slide (only on Walrein) or Earthquake, and live through the Surf / Ice Beam to hit them for the KO. Additionally, Sandslash will always survive a Timid Manectric's Hidden Power even after a Petaya boost, as well as almost always surviving a Timid Electabuzz's Ice Punch after a Petaya boost.</p>

<p>Rock Slide is the preferred move in the 4th slot, because it has the flinch rate, and Sandslash is able to outspeed most walls. It also allows Sandslash to take out fliers and Levitators that would not take themselves out with Counter, such as Misdreavus and Xatu, but more importantly, Altaria (which is outsped by this variant of Sandslash, allowing you to Rock Slide and possibly flinch before you get hit with Haze or Perish Song). Furthermore, it helps with Scyther and Yanma, not allowing them to set up while you try to Counter. Hidden Power Bug hits Grass types that do not attack with Hidden Power Grass, such as Bellosom and Tangela, and can hit Meganium hard if it uses Light Screen or Leech Seed. Hidden Power Bug also hits Solrock / Lunatone for super effective damage. Hidden Power Ghost, on the other hand, hits not only the previously mentioned Lunatone / Solrock for super effective damage, but also Misdreavus and Xatu as well. Counter takes care of Fearow, so it is not a big trouble if it walls those two attacks. It should be noted, however, that Rock Slide does have lower accuracy than Hidden Power</p>
Click to expand...
These are purely grammatical suggestions. I didn't bold/underline in the first paragraph since the changes I made were rather extensive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top