The only team I can win with.. Rain Dance!

Intro1827

So, I've been experimenting with a Rain Dance team lately and it's got potential, but there's something I don't like about it
Here's the team:

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@ Damp Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/178 Def/80 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunder
- U-Turn
- Rain Dance
- Grass Knot/Water Pulse

Jirachi makes the rain start ASAP and proceeds to attack with Thunder, while getting a good chance of Paralysis with it also thanks to Serene Grace. If Taunted, trapped or something like that, U-Turn to something that can abuse the Rain/take a hit. Jirachi is especially good in a Rain Dance team since almost everyone expects it to be Scarfed nowadays, so they usually won't Taunt/Trick it, letting me Rain Dance safely. EVs give maximum defensive abilities since I have no Wish on it. Special Defense is 1 point higher than Defense for Download. Removed Stealth Rock because Bronzong has it now. Any help on the last slot?

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@ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/130 Atk/128 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Rain Dance
- Confuse Ray

Changed Zapdos for this. Solid Defenses, great typing, no weaknesses in the Rain. He is also my Stealth Rock user and can Explode when he is no longer needed. Confuse Ray is just a filler, but I don't like Hypnosis' Accuracy. Overall, looks like a good addition to this team

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@ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP/84 Spd/134 SAtk/252 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Ice Beam

Lanturn, third Rain Dancer, with a much needed immunity to Electric attacks. Thunder is there with STAB (again), Surf is powered up by Rain and Ice beam rounds out coverage with those two moves, hitting Grass types, among others. 40 HP EVs give it 401 HP which will make it survive 4 Seismic Tosses if he took no damage beforehand (though that's unlikely). 84 Speed outspeeds 0 Speed Heatran, which is the only Heatran that could give me trouble (and I don't know what else to outspeed). Maxed Special Defense because maxing HP would give worse resistance to Special Attacks, given Lanturn's incredibly high Base HP, and the rest into Special Attack just to hit harder. Changed Damp Rock for Leftovers

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@ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/76 Spd/182 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Draco Meteor

A monster without rain, DDKingdra becomes even deadlier under the rain. Draco Meteor is to take out some physical walls if I haven't DD'd yet, and Waterfall/Outrage give an almost unresisted STAB combo. 76 Speed outspeeds Scarfed Neutral 100 Base Speed Poké like Flygon, and seemed a good breakpoint. Maxed Attack and the rest into Special Attack for DM. Maybe Substitute over Draco Meteor?

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@ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Brick Break

Scizor helps Rain Dance teams taking care of Tyranitar and Abomasnow, while also destroying screens that can stall the 8 turns of Rain. Scizor also gets its Fire weakness reduced under Rain and is just an overall cool Poké. Bullet Punch also helps stop most fast sweepers if I don't have Rain. U-Turn is your everyday scouting move, and Roost heals off Life Orb damage and helps Scizor staying alive (I REALLY need him alive). Changed EV spread to make him bulkier

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@ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance
- Explosion

Qwilfish is a cool Swift Swimmer that's often overlooked for Kabutops, but has a few tricks over him: the ability to hit Grass types with a STAB super effective attack and, most notably, Explosion, which will take care of any troublesome Poké if Rain is up. Max Speed Qwilfish under the Rain ties with neutral Scarf 130 Speed Poké, which is pretty cool if you also have SD
 
I actually like the looks of this team a lot. I always use Scizor on Rain Dance teams; I don't know why most people overlook it. Yes, go w/ a bulkier Scizor. I figure, the move you'll use most is Bullet Punch, which doesn't need the speed EV's, and U-Turn is for when you think your opponent will switch, so you can scout (usually) which also means no speed necessary.

As for SR, Water Pulse can easily be replaced on Jirachi for SR. It's main purpose is to Rain Dance and gtfo anyways, not attack.
 
Unique rain dance team, I doubt that it's as good as the standard RD, but let me analyze.

Jirachi is a good Rain dance user, although Thunder isn't doing much for you. You don't hit very hard with the spread you're currently using, and I don't see the reason not to go with Stealth rock over Thunder. Stealth rock gives you the passive damage, to make the opponent think drastically. EX: Oh man, my ______ has 30% hp left, and if I switch, i'll be down to 18%. I'll just pray he doesn't outspeed me.
This is the kind of thinking that's going on when you lay down those rocks. They're necessary for the OHKOs that you normally couldn't get without them.

As for Zapdos, he's no weather set up. Bronzong is what you need. Zapdos can't be bulky. He can, but not as well as Bronzong. Zapdos is easily outclassed by Bronzong for midgame Rain dance support, You can bring him out virtually any time. If I were you, I would use a Heatproof Zong. Fire wont be doing jack, and You'll be taking care of all the ground/rock pokemon with your rain dance sweepers.

Are you seriously using a DDkingdra in the rain? There's no need for that, switch DD with Signal beam and change your set to a special Kingdra. Celebi has fun with this team, add Signal beam to Kingdra and watch as he OHKOs Celebi in a pinch.
If Scizor has to stay alive, why not a bulky SD set? Run 180 Def /252 Atk/72 Hp. This is the spread I used, and I took some monstrous hits and knocked the pokes out.
 
On Jirachi, I'd much rather drop Water Pulse than Thunder, as 60% Paralysis is always good
Zapdos is used almost only to have an EQ immunity, as Jirachi, Qwilfish and Lanturn are weak to it. If I were to use Zong, I'd use Levitate
Special Kingdra could work, I guess. Dragon Pulse/Surf/Signal Beam/Rain Dance?@ LO?
 
Intro1827 said:
Oh, yeah, Blissey...
Still, I have no Special Swimmer. Is that a problem?
Click to expand...

No, considering most physical walls are weak to water, or at least neutral. However, Signal Beam could be a good replacement to Dragon Dance on Kingdra if you want, to handle Celebi, which is the only thing I see standing against this team. In fact.. the more I look at it.. the more Celebi seems to destroy your team... >_>
 
I'm going to disagree with darkartision here for a lot of reasons.

Zapdos and jirachi are great rain inducers that can stick around and be usefull in battle for offense and not just support.
They complement each others weakness greatly and can be switch ins for each other. They can both set up and use the rain to great benefit themselves with Jirachis hax and making Zapdos's thunder a daunting switch in for a lot of pokemon.

Jirachis water pulse is the best way to put a dent it Hippowdon and Tyranitar if you do ever need to face off with them. Under the rain it does more damage than you would think especially to hippowdon who takes 33.81% - 39.76% on the standard set without any SpecAtt EV's on Jirachi. I will tell you why you should leave it

Here are the changes I would make to your team:

DDkingdra is fine don't change him. That set aleady deals with Celebi as shown in the analysis. He should be you star and late game sweeper and signal beam offers pretty horrible coverage aside it's other moves.

Consider leftovers instead of damp rocks on Zapdos and Laturn. Why? People are going to switch in their sandstorm users many time in the battle and that is primarily when they are going to be used: mid game. Leftovers gives them longevity leaving rain set up by my third change.

Bronzong should replace qwilfish for a couple of reasons. Darkartisian did get 1 and only 1 \thing right in that you should have Bronzong @ damp rock on your team. He should be levitate as fire attacks will still be doing jack squat in the rain on a support zong. Bronzong provides a great switch in for Jirachi and Lanturn. Bronzong provides steath rock, rain, and explosion. Hypnosis is still a great option for the 4th slot even with an accuracy drop although if you find another support move you like you can put it there.

Qwilfish's utilty to take out grassers and your shedinja and stealh rock can be solved by replacing it with bronzong and considering CB scizor over that set.

As was mentioned Celebi and Blissey could be a problem for your team. A CB trapping scizor makes a great choce here.
Consider
Adamant 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Bullet punch
Pursuit
Uturn
with
Quick attack (for opposing gyarados and zapdos)/Superpower for blissey
or brick break if you really feel you have a problem with screens.

Scizor isn't your sweeper here he should be used to rack up damage and take care of problematic pokes. It usually only takes one turn of switch in and get out.

I would maybe consider grass moves in a number of places on your team here. Even on pokes with no attack ev's. Grass knot is a powerful move against hippowdown tyranitar and swapert who are all problimatic pokes for rain dance teams.

Lead jirachi makes good use of Uturn but Wish helps its team and it's self in a pinch. Grass knot or energy ball could be an option here but it's better left to others on your team.

HP grass over U turn on Zapdos. Do some calcs and see what you can try and do to swampert. If you don't like the damage output don't use it. Rember that you want to be able to do as much damage to Scizor so consider moving some points to SP attack so you can gurartee a OHKO with thunder
Grass knot on SpecDef oriented bronzong with some Spa attack ev's makes a great switch in to swamperts
 
Okay, made soem changes in the original post, and I'm thinking about CBScizor, but something else came to mind. Would Gorebyss fit somewhere? It has a pretty good Special Attack (114), gets Signal Beam and Grass Knot has 40 BP against it
 
Gorebyss is kinda slow, and Signal Beam is probably a worse choice considering Surf will be a neutral 214 base power when rounded up, which is gay even on resistors, the only use I'm seeing is to hit Ludicolo, and even then they're not that common outside of rain teams, and using Gorebyss just for that purpose seems wasteful tbh.

Secondly, I'm also up for removing Zapdos from the team, since I don't see how he can contribute that other support pokes can't. It's only there for STAB Thunder and Rain Dance, and it isn't that bulky, plus CBTar's Stone Edge really fucks Scizor on switch ins anyway. I'd consider Bronzong, or even Floatzel or Ludicolo, just for another avenue to abuse the rain. Seriously while Zapdos is a fine rain dancer, I just don't see it working on this team.

Outrage Kingdra in the Rain is not very cool IMO, trapping yourself in and the confusion that comes later kind of makes it easy to outstall rain with a steel poke, plus its not nice to lose Kingdra to a bliddy confusion. I'd go with Hydro Pump in the last slot to help with Forry, Skarm, etc. Bulky Steel types that kinda wall all your other moves and are free to stall rain out until necessary. the lowered spatk might not allow you to KO Bulky Waters with Hydro Pump/Draco Meteor though, so i'd do some calcs and see whether you want to outspeed flygon and salamence or kill Bulky Waters. If Zong is in your team it makes a great switch to those scarf outrages, where it can dance up and boom for the kill.

for Lanturn so cool that you're using him, like seriously, he's a good switch into Vaporeon, and can spread paralysis for when the rain isn't on. It's cool to prepare for a time when you don't have rain, since it will happen the moment another weather team comes onto you. The speed and spAtk aren't very necessary, chances are Heatran will not be 0 speed, dump them into defense for tankability. (is that a word? o.0) Though if you find you're not getting much use of him, feel free to slap in another rain sweeper to take advantage of the rain.

do not remove qwilfish, it makes a great switch to vappy and it really screws Celebi, plus SD Explosion is simply put a guaranteed kill of your choice except against ghosts, change the nature to Jolly though, since Qwilfish can operate outside of rain too.

I've used Lead Jirachi, and I've found Grass Knot really really really really really really and thats 6 reallys, helps with beating the Grounds that are going to be switching into you, since last i used, a lot of perts, TTars, Hippowdon stayed in on me and it's a cool surprise. Grass moves on the rest of your team aren't needed though, since surf/Hydro Pump does hell to those grounds anyway. dont use wish on it though, you'll find you won't get much use of it, due to the fast paced nature of a RD team.

Scizor should be running rain dance IMO, it's natural bulk plus ability to scare away most weather inducers gives it a good avenue to rain dance support the team.

Basically after my changes your team looks like this

Jirachi
Zong
Lanturn/Rain Sweeper
Kingdra
Scizor
Qwilfish

that looks almost like my current rain team. coolness, anyway hope i helped.
 
I'm going to change Zapdos for Bronzong. I keep my Ground immune and what's not to love about a Steel type?
Outrage is just so incredibly powerful that it can and will keep going through Steel types if they have no recovery after a DD or two, although I'm considering Substitute over Draco Meteor now that I have Stealth Rock to keep Gyara and Mence from switching in over and over with their Indtimidates
 
Some calcs VS hippowdon
Grass knot with no SpAtk Ev's on standard hippowdon
44.29% - 51.90%
So keep in mind that he can slack off the damage most of the time

Water pulse in rain does
33.81% - 39.76% and 22.38% - 26.43% not in rain but has the confusion benefit.

I played around with some stuff and and 28 SpAtk ev's does 50.00% - 58.81% with grass knot to impish 252HP 88 SpDef Hippowdon. Worthy of consideration
Turn 1 Jirachi Rain Dance- Hippo Stealth Rock
Turn 2 Jirachi Grass knot- Hippo EQ's (you will survive non CH EQ from Hippo)
Turn 3 Smart opponents will switch at this point if they haven't already but if they stay in bye bye hippo.

Tyranitar will take take massive damage but usually will not be 2HKO'd
 
Give Bronzong the move Gyro Ball and get rid of Confuse Ray. Without something to hit Ghosts, Mismagius and Gengar can put up a sub for free.
 
Do not get rid of kingdra. Dragon Dance + STAB outrage is great on any sweeper. However, the set you are using was designed for ubers. Since you are pretty consistently going to have rain consider the mixed set

252 Atk / 240 SpA / 16 Spen @life orb (Naughty/Lonely)
Rain Dance/ Dragon Dance (here since you have plenty of damp rock rain support)
Waterfall
Hydro pump
Draco Meteor

look at these calcs
Waterfall vs. Max HP Bronzong: 54-64%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP / 98 SpD: Bronzong 72-85%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Celebi: 38-45%
Draco Meteor vs. Max HP Celebi: 59-69%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP / Max SpD + Forretress: 85-100%
Draco Meteor vs. 216 HP Gyarados: 62-73%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Jirachi: 76-89%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Metagross: 91-100%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Skarmory: 100%
Waterfall vs. 160 HP / 136 Def Snorlax: 60-71%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Suicune: 34-39%
Draco Meteor vs. Max HP Suicune: 52-62%
Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP Swampert: 82-98%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Scizor: 100%
If you can pull of a spare dragon dance that's even better and it means you outspeed Scarfed base 100's
 
Scizor doesn't really fit well into this team, I suggest replacing him with another Rain Abuser, maybe something along the lines of a Kabutops?
 
Mrobinson587 said:
Do not get rid of kingdra. Dragon Dance + STAB outrage is great on any sweeper. However, the set you are using was designed for ubers. Since you are pretty consistently going to have rain consider the mixed set

252 Atk / 240 SpA / 16 Spen @life orb (Naughty/Lonely)
Rain Dance/ Dragon Dance (here since you have plenty of damp rock rain support)
Waterfall
Hydro pump
Draco Meteor

look at these calcs
Waterfall vs. Max HP Bronzong: 54-64%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP / 98 SpD: Bronzong 72-85%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Celebi: 38-45%
Draco Meteor vs. Max HP Celebi: 59-69%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP / Max SpD + Forretress: 85-100%
Draco Meteor vs. 216 HP Gyarados: 62-73%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Jirachi: 76-89%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Metagross: 91-100%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Skarmory: 100%
Waterfall vs. 160 HP / 136 Def Snorlax: 60-71%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Suicune: 34-39%
Draco Meteor vs. Max HP Suicune: 52-62%
Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP Swampert: 82-98%
Hydro Pump vs. Max HP Scizor: 100%
If you can pull of a spare dragon dance that's even better and it means you outspeed Scarfed base 100's
Click to expand...

First you say DD + Outrage is great and then you tell me to remove it? Also, what's the point of DD if I'm only going to use Waterfall with it?
And, why not Dragon Pulse if Draco Meteor makes 2 moves out of 3 weaker?
Actually, Dragon Pulse could work on the Kingdra I currently have instead of Draco Meteor. I only use Draco Meteor if I don't want to lock myself into Outrage, anyway

locopoke said:
Scizor doesn't really fit well into this team, I suggest replacing him with another Rain Abuser, maybe something along the lines of a Kabutops?
Click to expand...

Excuse me? Scizor won't die from random HP Fire, does a good job at getting rid of Abomasnow and Tyranitar, destroys Screens and stops faster Pokémon. Why should I remove it?
 
Intro1827 said:
First you say DD + Outrage is great and then you tell me to remove it? Also, what's the point of DD if I'm only going to use Waterfall with it?
And, why not Dragon Pulse if Draco Meteor makes 2 moves out of 3 weaker?
Actually, Dragon Pulse could work on the Kingdra I currently have instead of Draco Meteor. I only use Draco Meteor if I don't want to lock myself into Outrage, anyway
Click to expand...

Others were saying DD+ STAB outrage is somehow bad or something. DD+ STAB Outrage is a great late game tactic but the mixed set I gave is arguably just as destructive and give you the ability to switch attacks and come in mid game if need be.

Draco Meteor is the primary option for the sting it gives and it's power that brings opponents into KO range which is something Dragon Pulse fails to do. Notice how if you use those combinations to attack on any of those defensive pokes you will more often than not KO any switch in without any set up since you have plenty of rain support. Dragon Dance is almost filler there since you have rain support

So it could be
Dragon Pulse/Rain Dance/Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Hydro Pump
Draco Meteor

Have you figured out a way to deal with Celebi? That set smashes through almost all Celebi while still letting you have the freedom to switch
 
Except any T-Wave/Recover Celebi will stall it to death. If I were to run a mixed Special oriented set, I'd put more EVs into Special Attack and Speed and give it Signal Beam. Something like Surf/Signal Beam/Draco Meteor/Waterfall, but not a DD set
 
True Signal beam would wake a great choice there and it should OHKO all celebi. The speed is unnegotiable IMO as Scarf Heatran carry dragon pulse which will KO you.

From the analysis.
"The EVs generate enough Speed to outrun Modest Choice Scarf Porygon-Z and Timid Choice Scarf Heatran in the rain. Additional Speed can be used to beat specific Scarfed threats, but Salamence and Flygon are the only faster Scarfers capable of revenge killing a Kingdra in good health."

Another note for that set worthy of mention
Bold 252hp 252def Blissey
Waterfall
38.52% - 45.24% without
57.70% - 67.93% in the rain
Hydro pump
20.45% - 23.95% without
30.53% - 35.99% in the rain

Ranging 89% to 104% if Bliss switces in on Hydro pump you can KO with waterfall and Stealth rock damage in the rain

Draco Meteor 23.67% - 27.87%
82% minimum if Bliss switches into Draco Meteor and Kingdra uses waterfall in the rain. With battle damage and stelth rock you can KO blissey in the rain.

Signal Beam 8.54% - 10.08%

On Calm 252 HP 252 SPDef
Hydro pump
16.95% - 20.03% without
25.49% - 29.97% in the rain

Draco Meteor19.75% - 23.25%

Waterfall 88.80% - 104.48% without rain
133.19% - 156.72% in the rain

Watch the amount of damage that you deal to Blissey when she switches in and you can easily take her down at some point in the battle if not then
 
Mrobinson587 said:
I'm going to disagree with darkartision here for a lot of reasons.

Zapdos and jirachi are great rain inducers that can stick around and be usefull in battle for offense and not just support.
They complement each others weakness greatly and can be switch ins for each other. They can both set up and use the rain to great benefit themselves with Jirachis hax and making Zapdos's thunder a daunting switch in for a lot of pokemon.

Jirachis water pulse is the best way to put a dent it Hippowdon and Tyranitar if you do ever need to face off with them. Under the rain it does more damage than you would think especially to hippowdon who takes 33.81% - 39.76% on the standard set without any SpecAtt EV's on Jirachi. I will tell you why you should leave it

Here are the changes I would make to your team:

DDkingdra is fine don't change him. That set aleady deals with Celebi as shown in the analysis. He should be you star and late game sweeper and signal beam offers pretty horrible coverage aside it's other moves.

Consider leftovers instead of damp rocks on Zapdos and Laturn. Why? People are going to switch in their sandstorm users many time in the battle and that is primarily when they are going to be used: mid game. Leftovers gives them longevity leaving rain set up by my third change.

Bronzong should replace qwilfish for a couple of reasons. Darkartisian did get 1 and only 1 \thing right in that you should have Bronzong @ damp rock on your team. He should be levitate as fire attacks will still be doing jack squat in the rain on a support zong. Bronzong provides a great switch in for Jirachi and Lanturn. Bronzong provides steath rock, rain, and explosion. Hypnosis is still a great option for the 4th slot even with an accuracy drop although if you find another support move you like you can put it there.

Qwilfish's utilty to take out grassers and your shedinja and stealh rock can be solved by replacing it with bronzong and considering CB scizor over that set.

As was mentioned Celebi and Blissey could be a problem for your team. A CB trapping scizor makes a great choce here.
Consider
Adamant 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Bullet punch
Pursuit
Uturn
with
Quick attack (for opposing gyarados and zapdos)/Superpower for blissey
or brick break if you really feel you have a problem with screens.

Scizor isn't your sweeper here he should be used to rack up damage and take care of problematic pokes. It usually only takes one turn of switch in and get out.

I would maybe consider grass moves in a number of places on your team here. Even on pokes with no attack ev's. Grass knot is a powerful move against hippowdown tyranitar and swapert who are all problimatic pokes for rain dance teams.

Lead jirachi makes good use of Uturn but Wish helps its team and it's self in a pinch. Grass knot or energy ball could be an option here but it's better left to others on your team.

HP grass over U turn on Zapdos. Do some calcs and see what you can try and do to swampert. If you don't like the damage output don't use it. Rember that you want to be able to do as much damage to Scizor so consider moving some points to SP attack so you can gurartee a OHKO with thunder
Grass knot on SpecDef oriented bronzong with some Spa attack ev's makes a great switch in to swamperts
Click to expand...


If you are going to say I only got "one" thing right, consider the fact that you spelt my name wrong, and then criticize me Mrobinson. If he's going to be using Zapdos as his quake absorber, then Bronzong is perfect anyways. Water Pulse is stronger in the rain, which is why I suggested it over Thunder. Besides, if Jirachi is going to be support and you need him, he wont be doing much besides switching in and out. If DDKingdra handles Celebi so well, then why does he not OHKO him? This means that Celebi gets a free twave on Kingdra, and there goers your "star of the show"

Obviously Kingdra can't get paralyzed, it would ruin your whole sweep.
 
Thunder is still more powerful than Water Pulse in the rain. Anyway, about Kingdra, I could either put Substitute on my old set to stop T-Wave and DD on Celebi or use the Special set with Waterfall. Which do you suggest?
 
Signal beam does indeed work better i underestimated celebis neutral bulk. So there you got at least 2 things right darkartisan
I can see with those calcs that the mix Kingdra set is the superior option to dragon dance on a team with this much rain support. The only thing stopping from rampaging through a whole team is bulky waters which between Laturn and 2 exploders is usually handled. If he still had it Zapdos with thunder hp grass, it destroys almost every bulky water that would possibly stop kingdra without blowing itself up.

Zapdos and bronzong have two different functions as weather inducers.
Zapdos can take advantage of 100% accurate 120BP thunder coming off it base 125 Special Attack which puts a huge dent in anything that isn't immune doesn't resist it and the normal special walls. With a great speed stat and overall bulk it can be a bulky sweeper with rain dance.
Bronzong is team support and provides the necissary Stealth Rock and another exploder. Not much else for offence on the rain set.

So as you can see they each have their own distinct advantages.

Why would anyone ever consider heatproof over levitate on a team with 3 ground weaknesses? Fire does jack in the rain anyway. Jirachi can support better with Thunder over waterpulse as grass knot does better vs the sand inducers
So it looks like we both got things wrong. And you spelled my name wrong. It's Mrobinson587 :)

@ Intro1827
I would personally use offensive Thunder/roost/HP grass/Rain dance or uturn Zapdos over Qwilfish if i was using the mixed Kingdra set but you've played with your team and I haven't. Your call there. (Edit 2 Actually Qwilfish abosorbs toxic spikes which your team hates... keep Qwilfish he does good enough job. Zapdos only has adavantage attakcking against only a few bulky distinct bulky waters like suicune and vaporeon who can be blown up on if need be.)



Edit: Substitute is great option didn't think of that. Keep in mind that the mixed set only requires rain to work its magic while the DD set takes some setup. DD+ outrage may mean some confusion but hyrdro pump may miss.
I think your team is pretty much complete now you just need to play around with the sets and our suggestions and lets us know what worked best for you.
 
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