Glitched Weather in English Platinum [Part 2, Clearer Video] (Update March 18, 2009)

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EeveeTrainer said:
By the way, if Platinum is playing Diamond and Diamond is hosting the game, Hypnosis will have 70 accuracy if used by the Diamond player, and 60 if used by the Platinum player.
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Are you serious?

What method did you use to find this out. Either way, since we emulate the most recent metagame, this shouldn't matter.

While Sunny day or rain wouldn't have the damaging sequence, i'm sure it'd be worthwhile to test them too. Especially if there are other effects, or they cause acid hail or sandstorm.
 
"Hey guy's we found this glitch in the game that makes certain pokes unstoppable and over centralizes and potentially ruins the metagame"

"... But Nintendo did it, IMPLEMENT"


Nintendo is not infallible. They make mistakes just as any other developer does in coding. There is a fine line between imitating the game cartridge and implementing destructive glitches.

It's something like civil disobedience (or just being plain logical).
 
The whole point of Shoddy was to emulate the game exactly, and allow a theoretical perfection to the pokemon. ie: not limited to the probability or breeding.

Since it's trying to emulate the game, then we have to emulate the good parts and the bad parts. It doesn't matter if you believe something is a glitch, or if it actually is a glitch. Think RBY here.
 
billymills said:
The whole point of Shoddy was to emulate the game exactly, and allow a theoretical perfection to the pokemon. ie: not limited to the probability or breeding.

Since it's trying to emulate the game, then we have to emulate the good parts and the bad parts. It doesn't matter if you believe something is a glitch, or if it actually is a glitch. Think RBY here.
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We already change game mechanics with freeze, sleep, and other clauses.

Do we ban the moves that cause these, or there effects?
 
Hypnosis's accuracy can be tested by modifying the ROM to give it two widely different accuracies between the two games. When Diamond hosts the game, Diamond maintains its Hypnosis accuracy. yamipoli tested this.
 
speedwobbles225 said:
We already change game mechanics with freeze, sleep, and other clauses.

Do we ban the moves that cause these, or there effects?
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Please read the thread. It is easy to restrict what pokemon/moves people have when they enter a battle. The current method, however, is not what would be the best method. If we truly wanted to emulate link battles, then what would happen is when someone broke sleep/evasion/ohko clauses, they would automatically lose as opposed to the move failing. Obviously, this would not apply to freeze clause.
 
Obi said:
If Pursuit KOs a fleeing Pokemon (possibly any Pokemon, I'd like this confirmed) during Sand Stream (possibly any Sandstorm), the Acid Rain glitch is started. This has Rain then Sand animations. They both do SS damage (although both hit Rock-type Pokemon). I have received conflicting reports on whether stuff like Swift Swim activates, but Water damage is apparently boosted / Fire damage weakened, as is the Special Defense of Rock Pokemon. I'd like both of these confirmed. I'm also interested in what happens to SolarBeam, which has 60 power normally under each of these weathers.

If Pursuit KOs a fleeing Pokemon (possibly any) during Snow Warning (possibly any Hail), the Acid Hail glitch is started. This has Rain, Sand, Sun, then Hail animations. They all do Hail damage (although all four hit Ice-type Pokemon). From what I've heard, Ice Body heals four times, bringing the total healing to 25%. I'm interested in how SolarBeam behaves under this weather, same with Thunder, Blizzard, etc. It's also unknown what the effect on damage is on Fire / Water moves.
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Where did you get that from? I believe the Acid Rain video I posted shows a Regirock not being damaged by it at all.

Also, I'd seen another video that contained an Acid Hail glitch, along with the three members of the Clefable family. All apparently had Wonder Guard, because they did not take any damage from the acid weather. I can't find this video again however... But the person who posted it wrote in Spanish.

*EDIT*
Found it! Skip to 1:20 if you just want to see from when the glitch starts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nvg-m4fJzs&feature=channel_page
 
That being said, there should, at the very least, be an option to play unrated battles without this glitch.
 
speedwobbles225 said:
"Hey guy's we found this glitch in the game that makes certain pokes unstoppable and over centralizes and potentially ruins the metagame"

"... But Nintendo did it, IMPLEMENT"
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We can ban Pokemon, and we can ban moves. Let's say your theoretical glitch actually existed. If it were activated via a Pokemon using a certain move, we would ban that move. If the glitch happened out the blue we would then ban the Pokemon it effected.

If there was no way around it then yes we are screwed. But wait! We can make our own servers! So yeah, just make a server without the glitch. Smogon isn't the only server you have to play on.
 
Here's another part of Shoddy that is found nowhere in the game: timed battles. Not only do you lose after taking a certain dynamic time to select a move during consecutive turns, but your opponent can see an exact representation in seconds of your decision-making time, which can entirely aid in prediction.

The first part of this is technically enforcible in the cartirdge game, though completely inefficient. I suppose each player could have someone with a stopwatch who times each move, adding seconds each time they don't take too long to select their move, and after a user "times out" he is declared loser. But then they would have to stop the time during animations which requires intimate knowledge of the animation time of every single move and effect (burn, sandstorm, etc).

The second effect of timed battles is almost completely absent on the cartridge games. Before selecting your move, you can watch your opponent's clock. Did he pick a move right away? Chances are he picked the most obvious move. Took a little time? He's switching. Many times have I bluffed my opponent into thinking I'm switching by taking a few seconds to move. This adds a whole new mechanic to the game. A related scenario is if you see your opponent's timer stop, then start again, he is switching moves, meaning he is unsure or decided to change his first, more obvious course of action. And that's related to another non-cartiridge mechanic...

Undoing moves. Without an undo feature, or the ability to change my decisions on a whim after making them, I would have lost many, many battles that I have won in the past. Perhaps not everyone plays like this, but I am certain for some battlers a change in this mechanic would be detrimental to their games.

So where did these mechanics come from? Certainly not the cartridges. You don't suppose they just made them up for a more convenient and competetive battling experience, do you? Someone made a new metagame, separate from the cartridges, out of thin air.

So if Smogon's philosophical adherents can stand such gross violations of the simulation ideal, a metagame created out of thin air, why can't they stand a non-glitchy metagame created out of thin air?
 
Even though I disagree with some of your interpretations Steinhauser, why in the world would you ever make the argument that because it was done wrong in the past; we should continue doing so? If it was done wrong in the past, we should start by correcting it in the future.
 
My argument is that it is not "wrong," per se, to put forth an enhanced, competetive-battle-centric game on Shoddy's server. The community at large has always been more inclined to competetive viability than strict cartridge adherence in at least some ways. Despite the way it clashes with what is apparently Smogon's current philosophy, it sets a precedent placing value on altering game mechanics to enhance the battling experience.

If people really feel it was done wrong in the past, we should start by correcting the past - removing the timer and undo function. Then we can add in battle animations, because I'm sure 15 minute battles would severely affect the way the metagame is played as well. (Goodbye stall teams.)

There will never be a perfect simulator. We should focus on a perfect battling environment.
 
Steinhauser said:
My argument is that it is not "wrong," per se, to put forth an enhanced, competetive-battle-centric game on Shoddy's server. The community at large has always been more inclined to competetive viability than strict cartridge adherence in at least some ways. Despite the way it clashes with what is apparently Smogon's current philosophy, it sets a precedent placing value on altering game mechanics to enhance the battling experience.

If people really feel it was done wrong in the past, we should start by correcting the past - removing the timer and undo function. Then we can add in battle animations, because I'm sure 15 minute battles would severely affect the way the metagame is played as well. (Goodbye stall teams.)

There will never be a perfect simulator. We should focus on a perfect battling environment.
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We try to make Pokemon as competitive as possible. We do not try to make a game "like" Pokemon as competitive as possible. It's a fine line and we shouldn't deviate from the actual game mechanics on a simulator if we can avoid it. Any simulator should be as true to the cartridge as possible.
 
EeveeTrainer said:
Note that this glitch only occurs when Platinum user is hosting the battle (or is "leader"). The game uses the battle mechanics from whichever game is hosting the battle, since there is no centralized server on which battles are conducted.
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When me and Syberia made the glitch, I hosted with my Pearl
 
I believe we should address the timer issue, though. I don't think the time my opponent takes to attack on one turn should factor into my decision-making on that turn, yet for me it is ALWAYS a factor. I see no reason why it should be a factor.

We don't have to remove the timer, though; it's still necessary to time battles in order to reduce stalling. There are alternatives, such as:

-Update the opponent's timer display only after each turn.
-Remove the opponent's timer display from the battle window.

Both will eliminate the issue of seeing how long your opponent moves before making your move on the same turn. The choice between the two is pretty much preference on whether you would like an on-screen reminder of the time remaining.

With the ability to see your opponent's up-to-date timer gone, the undo function has no issues. The only times I have ever used the undo function were to change my mind after seeing the time my opponent was taking to attack.

Don't change the timer; change the timer display.



And now for an on-topic question: what's the timetable for possibly implementing this? Given the choice, would you rather use it now or wait until the U.S. release?
 
I think that we all agree that we wait until Platinum releases in North America before we try to implement it.
 
Steinhauser said:
The second effect of timed battles is almost completely absent on the cartridge games. Before selecting your move, you can watch your opponent's clock. Did he pick a move right away? Chances are he picked the most obvious move. Took a little time? He's switching. Many times have I bluffed my opponent into thinking I'm switching by taking a few seconds to move. This adds a whole new mechanic to the game. A related scenario is if you see your opponent's timer stop, then start again, he is switching moves, meaning he is unsure or decided to change his first, more obvious course of action. And that's related to another non-cartiridge mechanic...
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You could technically accomplish this through watching your opponent's actions during battle if you can see them, though "screen-looking" is frowned upon as uncompetitive in just about any game I've ever played.
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
And now for an on-topic question: what's the timetable for possibly implementing this? Given the choice, would you rather use it now or wait until the U.S. release?
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I do believe we are waiting for the US release before thorough testing commences, provided this is in the US version.
 
I just tried playing Platinum vs. Platinum. When the player using Pursuit was the host, the glitch activated. When the player being Pursuited was the host, the glitch did not activate.
 
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