• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

np: UU - A New Beginning

Status
Not open for further replies.
If you have to scarf a pokemon to beat another, that is a tad overcentralising. With that logic I could say Garchomp is OU because scarf suicune, scarf vaporeon and scarf cresselia counter it, but those are overspecialised counters anyway.
YacheChomp should live through ScarfStar's Ice Beam and OHKO with Earthquake or Outrage. Not sure about what the results for Cresselia and Suicune would be, but it still won't be pretty for them.

And there's another factor: Garchomp can viably run Choice Scarf itself, neutralizing those options. Crobat, however, doesn't really like running Choice Scarf. It means it won't have access to Roost, and taking 25% from SR every time it switches in, that isn't very good. With Choice Scarf, it also won't be hitting things too hard, not getting a boost from Specs, Band, LO, or Nasty Plot, and being locked into whatever move it chooses, allowing for switches more easily.

Finally, I'm not really getting how putting something with a Scarf at the lead is "overcentralizing." Several of those Pokemon, such as Rotom, Drifblim, and Froslass, work well as leads with a Scarf due to trick. They aren't hindering themselves just to counter Crobat, and work just as well facing other threats, so it would be more using a smart option for the lead that works both for Crobat and other things.

Other Pokemon I suggested, like Gallade and Honchkrow, have the Scarf as a very viable option for them to use. It can't really be called overcentralizing, since they also work well facing other things and aren't stretching themselves thin just for Crobat. They're just using a viable option, which also counters Crobat; hardly overcetralizing.

Plus, the Scarfers weren't the only things I mentioned. There was also Regirock, Steelix, and Electrode, which can handle it without being Scarfed.

There are plenty of options for dealing with Crobat, and none involve Pokemon having to stretch themselves thin just for countering it as was necessary for Garchomp, so I still don't see the need for it being BL.
 
I'm going too put my two cents in. Yes, it is my second post, blah, blah, blah. However, I've lurked around for a couple of years now. Pokémon and strategies that are good and no one realizes it.

Slowking: It isn’t as bulky as slobro, but unlike its brother it 2kaos the average sandstorm shuckle without a sand storm up. That, and it is faster then slobro by 30 base stats, iirc

Regice: If it doesn’t switch in on close combat, it completely destroys staraptor. (Assuming you have trick room, but ill mention that next.) It also handly counters shamin.

Pory2: Forget trace, download is the way to go. But if you use trace, it can survive cc from staraptor.

Trick room: Sigh... Why does no one like trick room? With half of every metagame running choice scarf/Enough speed to out run such and such poke, trick room is pure evil.

Those are my two cents. Thank you for reading.
 
Slowking: It isn’t as bulky as slobro, but unlike its brother it 2kaos the average sandstorm shuckle without a sand storm up. That, and it is faster then slobro by 30 base stats, iirc
Slowbro and Slowking both have the same Sp. Atk stat (100 Base) and the same speed (30). The only thing really different about them is their defenses are swapped (80 Def, 110 Sp Def for Slowking and the reverse for Slowbro) and Slowking gets access to Nasty Plot, while Slowbro doesn't.
 
The purpose of this test is to find out what Pokes are overpowered and overcentralizing. So I don't know what it is your talking about. as for the "Broken" teams I am not the only one using a "Broken" team. After its all said and done (Voting wise) There will be many people you can point your finger at for using broken shit. For example Chocolatebunny's main team with which he climbed the ladder is comprised of- Raikou, Straptor, Gallade, Shaymin, and if memory serves Uxie and Spiritomb. By definition how in the hell can you call MY team broken when I only use 1-2 suspects and other people are using teams FULL OF SUSPECTS!!! If you check your team HeY your using a Raikou too. Can Icall YOU a selfish immature person for using a Raikou to win? what would be the point of that anyway. No doubt you have another potental BL such as Straptor, or some such on your team anyway. I wouldn't be surprised. So at this point I think ive made it clear that your a hypocrit.

Uhm, durh?

Thats what i said. And you didnt help with the test, because you only used one single team that is using a seemingly "Broken" strategy. You didnt test any other pokemon aside from the 6 on your team, in hail.

Clefable is the only thing keeping hail at bay at this point, so it cant leave without perma-hail leaving.

Im using a Raikou on one of my teams. But i use more than one team and more than one strategy in the test. Dont you see it? People stopped caring about rating, they would much rather test other pokemon and see how they effect the metagame. I have used four teams, not including a just-for-fun Mono-fire team.

You have effectively made it clear, that you have no clue what you are talking about.

I just think its sort of funny, that you dont see this, you have ONE suspect because thats a Hail Teams counter.
 
This thread is not about Garchomp

This thread is not about personally attacking one another's Suspect Nominations.

This thread is not about the definition of a BL (essentially "uber" in context) Pokemon.

Stay on topic people and continue to discuss the UU metagame. You can discuss what is / isn't potentialy broken in your eyes; but do not question the integrity or motivation behind someone's nominations as that is bound to go absolutely no where.

(If I see any more posts that fit any of those 3 things that this thread isn't about, I'm deleting and infracting them.)
 
Slowbro and Slowking both have the same Sp. Atk stat (100 Base) and the same speed (30). The only thing really different about them is their defenses are swapped (80 Def, 110 Sp Def for Slowking and the reverse for Slowbro) and Slowking gets access to Nasty Plot, while Slowbro doesn't.

Oops, my bad. Still, he qualifies as a "bulky water", and has better special defence, so the king is still good in my book.
 
Oops, my bad. Still, he qualifies as a "bulky water", and has better special defence, so the king is still good in my book.


I think people look passed Slowking due to Milotic being quite a bit better. Keep in mind, Blaziken's Flare Blitz 2HKOs Slowking with Stealth Rock.

Blaziken imo is the most terrifying pokemon to face when its sent in on your Registeel/Steelix/Chansey because it 2HKOs EVERYTHING in the metagame.
 
I think people look passed Slowking due to Milotic being quite a bit better. Keep in mind, Blaziken's Flare Blitz 2HKOs Slowking with Stealth Rock.

Blaziken imo is the most terrifying pokemon to face when its sent in on your Registeel/Steelix/Chansey because it 2HKOs EVERYTHING in the metagame.

Plus you have to guess its set. With Chansey you can be fairly certain it's using a physical fighting move, but for Registeel/Steelix, you could be sending your counter into a Overheat, Flare Blitz, Focus Blast, or Superpower, almost certainly LO- or Choice-boosted. And then there's still the possibility of Agiliken.

Still, Slowbro is a fairly good counter. It's pretty much going to need HP Grass to take Slowbro out. I don't think Blaziken is BL material, but then again, I don't think anything is BL material right now.
 
Blaziken's best check is Hariyama which is only 2hKOed by CB Superpower. Basically, it works.

Anyhow, I've been working on "Pokemon that use Wish / Protect / Toxic" for my stall team, and there are basically 3 Pokemon that do the same thing:

Chansey @ Leftovers
4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Seismic Toss

Umbreon @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Payback

Hypno @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Psychic

Between the three, they all beat different big threats. Chansey can beat Raikou and Shaymin, Umbreon beats Mismagius, and Hypno beats... something that I forgot. Going by usage alone Chansey seems like the better choice in the metagame (considering that you can use Drapion for Mismagius anyway), so I might start using it. Has anyone had any experience with any of the trio?
 
Chansey @ Leftovers
4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Seismic Toss

Umbreon @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Payback

Hypno @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Psychic

Between the three, they all beat different big threats. Chansey can beat Raikou and Shaymin, Umbreon beats Mismagius, and Hypno beats... something that I forgot. Going by usage alone Chansey seems like the better choice in the metagame (considering that you can use Drapion for Mismagius anyway), so I might start using it. Has anyone had any experience with any of the trio?
I don't think that Chansey will enjoy special drop from Shaymin. Hypno can easily stall out Shaymins Seed Flares with Wish/Protect combination and it's not thard to EVs it to handle more then two Seed Flares. I don't like Umbreon, it's still 2OHkoed by the strongest special attackers like Life Orb Camerupt, Typhlosion, Offensive Roserade or Specs/Growth Shaymin (which is great and still bulky enough to handle a hit if neccesary) and any others. But still it handles nice Mismagius. To that 'special walling trio' you can always add that Milotic and Venusaur. But yeah, I like how versitale nUU is with that many choices for teams.

EDIT: Oh well, I should run damage calcs, but yeah, Hypno won't enjoy Specs Seed Flare after all.
 
Blaziken's best check is Hariyama which is only 2hKOed by CB Superpower. Basically, it works.

Anyhow, I've been working on "Pokemon that use Wish / Protect / Toxic" for my stall team, and there are basically 3 Pokemon that do the same thing:

Chansey @ Leftovers
4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Seismic Toss

Umbreon @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Payback

Hypno @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm
Wish Protect Toxic Psychic

Between the three, they all beat different big threats. Chansey can beat Raikou and Shaymin, Umbreon beats Mismagius, and Hypno beats... something that I forgot. Going by usage alone Chansey seems like the better choice in the metagame (considering that you can use Drapion for Mismagius anyway), so I might start using it. Has anyone had any experience with any of the trio?

Hariyama is the best check by far, but its down side is that it cant recover, and needs to run Max HP and Defense to have a chance. Hariyama can switch in once. Note Focus Blast 2HKOs it. I think Milotic is the best bet to counter Blaziken mainly because its easy to make it faster, and it can Recover.
 
I don't think that Chansey will enjoy special drop from Shaymin. Hypno can easily stall out Shaymins Seed Flares with Wish/Protect combination and it's not thard to EVs it to handle more then two Seed Flares. I don't like Umbreon, it's still 2OHkoed by the strongest special attackers like Life Orb Camerupt, Typhlosion, Offensive Roserade or Specs/Growth Shaymin (which is great and still bulky enough to handle a hit if neccesary) and any others. But still it handles nice Mismagius. To that 'special walling trio' you can always add that Milotic and Venusaur. But yeah, I like how versitale nUU is with that many choices for teams.

328 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin Seed Flare vs 252/252 Calm Hypno: 47.33% - 55.61%. With Stealth Rock, Protect and Leftovers taken into account, that is an 100% 2HKO on the switch-in. So no, Hypno doesn't stall Shaymin particularly well :( I guess it does OK against LO variants, though it 'enjoys' Special Defense drops considerably less than Chansey does.
 
I don't know if it's my reluctance to use Choice Scarf on anything, but I find sweepers with less than base 100 speed (Blaziken, Gallade and Magmortar to name a few) to be rather underwhelming.
 
If Raikou and Shaymin get the boot, don't you guys think Slowbro and Milotic will be a little bit overpowered? Two of their greatest threats removed, and they were both already beasts (for differentish reasons).

I'm also surprised at the lack of Spiritomb nominations, mostly because of his insane ability to block every attempt to spin bar foresight hitmons. Ugh.

Seconding that Snover is just as much of a problem as Abomasnow, particularly in it's affect on Walrein.
 
If Raikou and Shaymin get the boot, don't you guys think Slowbro and Milotic will be a little bit overpowered? Two of their greatest threats removed, and they were both already beasts (for differentish reasons).

I'm also surprised at the lack of Spiritomb nominations, mostly because of his insane ability to block every attempt to spin bar foresight hitmons. Ugh.

Seconding that Snover is just as much of a problem as Abomasnow, particularly in it's affect on Walrein.

The problem I see is as soon as one UU pokemon gets banned others are soon to follow. I don't see one pokemon overcentralizing the metagame as everything is in somewhat of a balance.

At least until someone finds a Yache Garchomp like moveset.
 
@ HeYsUp

Hate to break it to you man. But ive been playing with a few other teams. Both completely non-weather teams. : / just on a diffrent alias is all O_o

Magmortar Choice Specs Overheat is wicked I used that!

One thing I have enjoyed playing with that gets no recognition however is-

Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Power Whip
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Its got some awesome resistances to Grass, Electric, Ground and Water. I set up a screen or two with Uxie and Tang can get to work SDing an Subbing up. It is, in my experiance, very effective. The only problem is Powerwhips 85% accuracy which always seems to fail me at the wrong time. Special attackers have a field day with it though. But I reccomend people try it. I usually SD, then, when my opponent switches in a fire poke I Sub on that turn and Eq them ^__^ Charizard is a problem. But by then I have rocks up. So I can stay in an SD Powerwhip some sense into Zard. Then simply switch to restalk milotic.
 
@ HeYsUp

Hate to break it to you man. But ive been playing with a few other teams. Both completely non-weather teams. : / just on a diffrent alias is all O_o

Magmortar Choice Specs Overheat is wicked I used that!

One thing I have enjoyed playing with that gets no recognition however is-

Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Power Whip
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Its got some awesome resistances to Grass, Electric, Ground and Water. I set up a screen or two with Uxie and Tang can get to work SDing an Subbing up. It is, in my experiance, very effective. The only problem is Powerwhips 85% accuracy which always seems to fail me at the wrong time. Special attackers have a field day with it though. But I reccomend people try it. I usually SD, then, when my opponent switches in a fire poke I Sub on that turn and Eq them ^__^ Charizard is a problem. But by then I have rocks up. So I can stay in an SD Powerwhip some sense into Zard. Then simply switch to restalk milotic.


We arent arguing about that anymore, but on to your Tangrowth.

That Tangrowth is actually fairly dangerous as a late game sweeper, though i immediately switch to Roserade or Charizard when is see one. I suggest you use Rock Slide over Sub though, because otherwise Shaymin can wall you all day :(.



I have a discussion post to add to this:

Assuming Raikou and Gallade leave(based on nominations), which pokemon will best replace them?

I have been trying to use Espeon in Raikou's spot, with lots of success.

Im assuming Medicham will take Gallades spot, as its similar in speed and typing, but it just loses Close Combat and Shadow Sneak(though it has higher attack), i guess it has Brick Break/High Jump Kick and Bullet Punch. The Biggest difference between the two is the Special Defense, and Swords Dance i guess. Maybe something like Hitmonlee will come back.
 
Yeah, I was thinking about what would happen if Raikou left too, and I also thought that Espon usage would rise. To be honest, I'm a little surprised by how few usages it got last month.
 
In my experience with Espeon, it's too frail. It's not powerful enough and doesn't get a high enough boosting move to beat Pokemon before they beat it. A Choice Scarf version with Trick, however, is actually fairly useful for revenge and for a lead.
 
I seem to be doing fairly well by setting up a CM or two with Espeon, then BPing to an Agility Blaziken when a Dark Pokemon comes along. Especially since dark is resisted by Blaziken(as well as bug, Espeons other weakness), it makes the switch a very easy one.

Most Ghosts(aside from Spiritomb, who is dealt with EASILY by Blaziken) cant survive a +2(1 on the switch, and one as they Shadow Ball) Psychic, and are slower then Espeon.

Im definately going to use this strategy in one of my future teams.

But in all honesty, i think i have to use Missy on my regular team over Raikou just because of typing. Electric was such an amazing stab :(.

Edit: I would like to point out the effort put into Wyzra and Eo Ut Mortus' nomination posts, they explained why Abomasnow is a suspect, and not Snover.
 
I'm not sure if anyone has brought anything about Rampardos up before, but I thought this was interesting: without Sandstorm, Claydol with a +SpA nature/44 SpA EVs/Stealth Rock will always OHKO Rampardos.
 
@ HeYsUp: In theory, I suppose Espeon would make a fine choice as far as replacing Raikou, as well as being a bit more utilitarian in its uses, with Baton Pass allowing you to pass on your stat boosts to another sweeper (such as your Blaziken), and also allowing it to safely escape from Pursuit users.

As far as Gallade, I'm not really sure. Medicham may replace any odd Choice sets out there, but I'm not sure who could replace the seemingly more popular SD set.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top