CAP 7 CAP 7 - Part 7 - Stat Rating Poll 1

[Magmortified]

Our Pokemon so far:

Name: Ultimate Scout
Description: A Pokemon that is very capable of forcing the opponent to reveal vital information about their team members and their moves using various techniques.

Type: Steel / Ghost
With a 0 to 20 (Somewhat Offensive) Style Bias and a 20 to Infinity (Physical) Build Bias.

This poll determines the desired overall "power level" of the pokemon's base stats. In the past, the Base Stat Total (BST) was used to measure the power of base statistics. Since BST is a very poor measurement for stat power, the CAP project now uses Base Stats Rating (BSR) to determine the overall effectiveness of a pokemon's base stats. Polling is simpler, and the results are more useful. The Base Stats Rating is determined by a formula created by X-Act.


Information about the formula is located here.
A utility for calculating the BSR is located here.

Use the clicky poll above to vote

 

[Sc4rfCh0mp]

I think that the Ultimate Scout should be able to function very well against several common offensive Pokemon, such as Heatran, Salamence, Tyranitar, and Suicune. Therefore, the Ultimate Scout should have a rating of Very Good.

 

[ferron]

we should be able to dowell with just quite good, since this is a scout and not a tank or a sweeper.

p.s.- polelover what option are you looking at exactly?

 

[1059860]

If we're going to create something, then create it to be very good... Finally we got something with a terrific typing, we don't need it to be a letdown of quite good. Of course, not 420+ for broken-age.

 

[hydrolphin]

Scouting doesn't need stats. Its all in the movepool. Therefore I voted Quite Good.

 

[Blazebat]

I voted very good because without really great stat distribution an all physical poke will have a tough time doing anything. still it needs to be kept from being broken.

 

[cyberzero]

Quite good. We don't need too much. A lot of the better stat spreads are also in the QG range.

 

[darkie]

I voted Quite Good. Being a scout, it NEEDS a reliable, expansive movepool. It is NECESSARY to thus decrease this guy's stats to a certain extent in order to make sure that we can give it a good movepool without making it broken.

Stats < Movepool for a scout.

 

[Deck Knight]

I voted Very Good.

It is literally impossible to have passable defense, passable offense, AND 100+ Speed on Quite Good. Speed has an insane amount of weight on BSR, and this needs Very Good in order to function properly.

Granted in order to not overdo it it needs to be in the lower realm of Very Good, but Quite Good is just a cut too poor for what we want it to do.

 

[ferron]

dk, the stats im currently working on is 85/91/85/54/95/118 has a BSR of 294. its decent defenses, passable attack and 115+ speed.

 

[Deck Knight]

dk, the stats im currently working on is 85/91/85/54/95/118 has a BSR of 294. its decent defenses, passable attack and 115+ speed.

It's passable attack but not passable offense.

It is completely shut down by anything with remotely decent defense. It struggles against the common Intimidate users, and cannot possibly hope to threaten them, even by exploiting their 4x weakness with the stronger special attack Base Powers.

In other words, it's bulky water bait.

 

[ferron]

It's passable attack but not passable offense.

It is completely shut down by anything with remotely decent defense. It struggles against the common Intimidate users, and cannot possibly hope to threaten them, even by exploiting their 4x weakness with the stronger special attack Base Powers.

In other words, it's bulky water bait.

you can scout by doing more doing more than just scaring pokes away. in fact, getting things out that can tank you is part of scouting as well.

 

[Deck Knight]

you can scout by doing more doing more than just scaring pokes away. in fact, getting things out that can tank you is part of scouting as well.

This assumes that you scared them away. Which you wouldn't be doing if they thought they could DD in your face and then finish you with EQ instead of risking death by Thunderbolt/Ice Beam.

 

[Elegy]

I voted for very good. Of course the movepool is very important, but I think it should really be in the low 300's to make it "supreme" to some other scouts, but not high enough to be the definition of very good.

 

[Al_Alchemist]

Quite Good (250-299)

Because of exactly what Darkie said, movepool > stats. Also, it will be interesting to see how this Pokemon functions with that stat spread compared to the other CAP Pokemon ^^...

 

[JimBob]

It's passable attack but not passable offense.

It is completely shut down by anything with remotely decent defense. It struggles against the common Intimidate users, and cannot possibly hope to threaten them, even by exploiting their 4x weakness with the stronger special attack Base Powers.

In other words, it's bulky water bait.

It's supposed to scout, not sweep. Making your opponent reveal what he has that can stop you does count as scouting under my definition of it. I don't know what your definition of scouting is though.

I voted quite good mostly because everything darkie has said so far has been quite convincing, and his post in this thread is not as convincing but the aura still draws me to him

 

[Madd Cribbage]

I foolishly voted thinking it was for BST. If I wasn't stupid and had checked to see that it actually was BSR I would have voted for Quite Good.

 

[Thorns]

Voted for Very Good.

 

[Deck Knight]

It's supposed to scout, not sweep. Making your opponent reveal what he has that can stop you does count as scouting under my definition of it. I don't know what your definition of scouting is though.

I voted quite good mostly because everything darkie has said so far has been quite convincing, and his post in this thread is not as convincing but the aura still draws me to him

So often the definition of "scout" seems to be in practice "pokemon that gets set up upon by unpredictable sweeper," as is the case in anything that cannot threaten Salamence or Gyarados.

Here's a good example: Blissey.

Blissey has 75 Base SA and TBolt/IBeam. One of my sets invests about 232 EVs in SA, which nets me a KO on Mence with IBeam and around 80% on Gyarados. Sets without that SA become setup fodder for Tauntrados or lunch for a DDMence already in.

Some of the spreads proposed have less than 75 SA. These same spreads most assuredly do not have enough defenses to survive boosted neutral attacks without taking upwards of 60% damage, not in an actual, fully EV'd realistic spread instead of a theoretical Max/Max spread that has no practical use because it threatens absolutely nothing offensively.

The threat of a KO on a major sweeper in your opponent's team is the only thing that will induce a switch from a setup sweeper. A healthy Salamence or Gyarados are not going to give up their DD just because you might be Scarfed and can deal 70% damage maximum to them with one move you may or may not posess.

Any spread that cannot KO Salamence/Gyarados with Ice Beam/Thunderbolt fails as a scout. It cannot force a switch from the sweeper because the sweeper is not threatened.

I haven't even gotten into the trouble DD + RoostMence causes any scout that can't muster 70% reliably with Ice Beam (Forget Ice Punch. Even without Intimidate it's worthless unSTABed without huge attack power).

Zapdos is probably a lost cause anyway, but if you can't hit that for >54%, forget it. Same with physically defensive Dusknoir and Shadow Ball.

 

[foibles]

damn misclick. I voted excellent, but meant to vote very good it doesnt matter though, seeing as excelent will never win anyway.

 

[Coronis]

Voting Very Good, see DK's posts

 

[X-Act]

Don't vote for Very Good guys. :(

This is a Ghost/Steel type. A Very Good BSR would make this Pokemon too good. Think about it. Is there a Steel Pokemon having more than 100 base Speed in the game? No, and for good reason. Ghost/Steel is one of the best defensive types there is, and most of us are going to give it a speed that is greater than 100. Let's balance things out by giving it a BSR that isn't as good as usual.

Also, there are Pokemon that are Quite Good and that are OU. We don't need Very Good to have a good Pokemon. Typing is also important, people. This is the very reason why I was researching to rate also typing in relation to the stats. I'm sure that a Ghost/Steel typing would up the Stats Rating a lot. So please, keep it down.

Vote Quite Good. Or lower.

And lastly: Scizor has only a 'Good' BSR rating. Its Stats Rating is only just 'Good'! Yet it's the most overused Pokemon in Standard. And before it got the Platinum updates, it was a solid OU Pokemon already. You can bet that it being part-Steel contributes greatly to it being OU. That should tell you something.

Stop blindly voting 'Very Good' without even looking at the post Magmortified has posted several times in his polls:

Information about the formula is located here.

I bet that less than 5 people actually looked at that thread, and just went ahead and voted. I love you all for doing that. If Very Good wins, we would be creating an incredibly broken Pokemon. You have been warned.

 

[kaonohiokala]

Eh, I voted for Very Good. As I see it, as long as we don't give this thing stat-up moves, it can't become broken.

 

[Deucalion2]

I'm with X-Act. I voted Quite Good. Tempted to go lower, as I'd like to, but it seems Quite Good needs all the votes it can get.

 

[Yllnath]

I voted Quite Good. I agree with everything X-Act said and strongly disagree with DK.

DK, you keep being under the impression that if you cannot kill the opponent, it will not switch and it will not be able to scout. I stronly detest that idea, since it's really short sighted. There are literally dozens and dozens of ways to force switches. Your so-called precious stat-up sweeper that would be able to completely stop us is can be forced to switch in a number of ways and let me just name a few.
- Encore his stat up move.
- Yawn while he uses it's stat up move
- Use roar or whirlwind when you expect a stat up move
- Use Charm on a attack user or S.Atk equivalent if you expect a special attack user.
- Trick a item on said poke to hinder it.
- Knock off it's Life Orb to greatly hinder it.
- And the list goes on and on and on.

For some strange reason, from the concept assesment poll, where people were quite skeptical on CAP7 being somewhat sweeperish at all, all the way up to here, where for some reason we need to sweep in order to properly scout, something went terribly wrong.

I agree with X-Act and Darkie, Movepool > Stats. I would've voted Good, but since I don't see that having a chance at winning, I voted Quite Good. Bandwagoning FTW.