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Whats the local rate? [ OU RMT ]
- Thread starter Enkidu
- Start date
Dragon Dance Salamence destroys your entire team. The best you can muster is revenge killing it with Azelf, which won't work if you choose Signal Beam. You'll need both Psychic from Azelf AND Bullet Punch from Scizor to ensure you kill it, which can be foiled by a Pursuit user taking out Azelf or a Magnezone taking out Scizor. Agility Lucario also causes this team problems, especially versions that rely on Focus Blast rather than Close Combat (Focus Blast OHKOs your Scizor).
Lucario @ Life Orb
Modest
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Agility
-Focus Blast
-Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball
-HP Ice
Ironically, Jolteon is your best bet in stopping it, and even that takes 96% minimum. Rotom and Azelf fall to Shadow Ball. Focus Blast deals with Tyranitar, Jolteon, and Scizor, and Salamence goes down to HP Ice. Luckily, Lucario's only real chances of switching in are on Scizor's Bullet Punch/Pursuit, and Tyranitar's Crunch.
Lucario @ Life Orb
Modest
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Agility
-Focus Blast
-Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball
-HP Ice
Ironically, Jolteon is your best bet in stopping it, and even that takes 96% minimum. Rotom and Azelf fall to Shadow Ball. Focus Blast deals with Tyranitar, Jolteon, and Scizor, and Salamence goes down to HP Ice. Luckily, Lucario's only real chances of switching in are on Scizor's Bullet Punch/Pursuit, and Tyranitar's Crunch.
Would a weavile in place of say tyranitar fix that weakness? Something like
Weavile@ Expert belt
Jolly nature
Ice shard
Pursuit
Fakeout
Aerial ace
Fakeout as sort of an insurance measure against Salamence/Infernape if they stay in, it lets me flinch them and take like 10 - 15% off, insurance Aerial/Ice shard do there job.
Weavile@ Expert belt
Jolly nature
Ice shard
Pursuit
Fakeout
Aerial ace
Fakeout as sort of an insurance measure against Salamence/Infernape if they stay in, it lets me flinch them and take like 10 - 15% off, insurance Aerial/Ice shard do there job.
Weavile handles Salamence, yes, however, your moveset doesn't work.
Weavile @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Jolly
252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
-Night Slash
-Ice Shard
-Pursuit
-Brick Break
You NEED Night Slash, or bulky Psychic's like Cresselia go "olol" at you, which is sad =(
I would suggest switching Tyranitar's nature to Jolly. Even though you lose some power by switching to Jolly, you will be able to outspeed Gengar, Latias, Infernape and Starmie after a DD. I suggest using Aqua Tail in place of Earthquake. Aqua Tail allows you to 2HKO Hippowdon and Gliscor after a DD, allowing you to get rid of two common counters to Tyranitar.
I would suggest using U-turn in place of Grass Knot. U-Turn is available for scouting and to prevent Azelf from becoming Pursuit bait early on in the match from the likes of Tyranitar. Just like Signal Beam, U-Turn allows you to hit Cresselia, Azelf, Tyranitar and Celebi for high damage. However, you can also use Trick which is also a great option. Trick allows you to cripple common switch-ins such as Cresselia, Bronzong, Vaporeon and various others, decreasing their walling capabilities significantly. I also suggest using Explosion in place of Signal Beam. Explosion allows Azelf to get a last ditch kill if you wish to take down a Pokemon that is troubling you, such as CM Suicune, CM Latias and CurseLax, all of which you say give you some trouble. If you are going to use U-Turn and Explosion, an EV spread of 200 Atk, 56 SpA, 252 Spe might be favorable over your current spread. Since U-Turn and Explosion are Physical attacks, the EV's invesetd into Attack allow you to hit harder with Explosion and U-Turn. In addition, you can also add Ice Punch to help with you Salamence problems. Azelf will outspeed Salamence after a DD and can OHKO with Ice Punch after Stealth Rock damage. If you do not want to rely on using Scizor and Azelf to take out Salamence, then Ice Punch is the better choice. Bullet Punch, does 58.73% (Without Intimidate) to Salamence that do not invest in HP nor Defensive EV's.
Scizor will enjoy some added bulk since it is really your only Steel-type that you can count on being around in the mid game. Try a spread of 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe. Scizor will be able to outspeed most Skarmory, Metagross, and CB Ttar with the 56 Speed EV's. That EV's invested into HP will also help you take hits from Latias allowing you to Pursuit it for the kill. If you would like a Scizor that is more specially defensively oriented that is more suited switching into opposing Latias and Gengar's Special Attacks to Pursuit them, try a set with 24 HP / 252 Atk / 176 SpD / 56 Spe. With the Special Defense EV's, you will be able to take Draco Meteor's and Focus Blast's more effectively.
I suggest using an EV spread of 84 Atk / 216 SpA / 208 Spe on Salamence. 208 Speed EVs assure that Salamence outruns all Gyarados prior to a Dragon Dance. With that EV spread, you also able to tie with offensive varients of Zapdos. You also outspeed all varients of Glisocr who are now running 216 Speed EV's with a Jolly nature to outspeed Lucario. On Jolteon, I think Shadow Ball and Signal Beam is a bit redundant. Shadow Ball already hits Celebi for 2uper effective damage and 2HKO's it too. I think you are better off using something like Charge Beam or Baton Pass. Both moves have their advantages. Charge Beam has a 70% chance to raise Jolteon's Special Attack by one stage allowing you to hit harder and sweep more effectively. On the other hand, Baton Pass allows you to switch out of things you would notmally not be able to kill such as Tyranitar who will most likely Pursuit you. Both are good options, however, it is up to your personal preference.
I would suggest using U-turn in place of Grass Knot. U-Turn is available for scouting and to prevent Azelf from becoming Pursuit bait early on in the match from the likes of Tyranitar. Just like Signal Beam, U-Turn allows you to hit Cresselia, Azelf, Tyranitar and Celebi for high damage. However, you can also use Trick which is also a great option. Trick allows you to cripple common switch-ins such as Cresselia, Bronzong, Vaporeon and various others, decreasing their walling capabilities significantly. I also suggest using Explosion in place of Signal Beam. Explosion allows Azelf to get a last ditch kill if you wish to take down a Pokemon that is troubling you, such as CM Suicune, CM Latias and CurseLax, all of which you say give you some trouble. If you are going to use U-Turn and Explosion, an EV spread of 200 Atk, 56 SpA, 252 Spe might be favorable over your current spread. Since U-Turn and Explosion are Physical attacks, the EV's invesetd into Attack allow you to hit harder with Explosion and U-Turn. In addition, you can also add Ice Punch to help with you Salamence problems. Azelf will outspeed Salamence after a DD and can OHKO with Ice Punch after Stealth Rock damage. If you do not want to rely on using Scizor and Azelf to take out Salamence, then Ice Punch is the better choice. Bullet Punch, does 58.73% (Without Intimidate) to Salamence that do not invest in HP nor Defensive EV's.
Scizor will enjoy some added bulk since it is really your only Steel-type that you can count on being around in the mid game. Try a spread of 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe. Scizor will be able to outspeed most Skarmory, Metagross, and CB Ttar with the 56 Speed EV's. That EV's invested into HP will also help you take hits from Latias allowing you to Pursuit it for the kill. If you would like a Scizor that is more specially defensively oriented that is more suited switching into opposing Latias and Gengar's Special Attacks to Pursuit them, try a set with 24 HP / 252 Atk / 176 SpD / 56 Spe. With the Special Defense EV's, you will be able to take Draco Meteor's and Focus Blast's more effectively.
I suggest using an EV spread of 84 Atk / 216 SpA / 208 Spe on Salamence. 208 Speed EVs assure that Salamence outruns all Gyarados prior to a Dragon Dance. With that EV spread, you also able to tie with offensive varients of Zapdos. You also outspeed all varients of Glisocr who are now running 216 Speed EV's with a Jolly nature to outspeed Lucario. On Jolteon, I think Shadow Ball and Signal Beam is a bit redundant. Shadow Ball already hits Celebi for 2uper effective damage and 2HKO's it too. I think you are better off using something like Charge Beam or Baton Pass. Both moves have their advantages. Charge Beam has a 70% chance to raise Jolteon's Special Attack by one stage allowing you to hit harder and sweep more effectively. On the other hand, Baton Pass allows you to switch out of things you would notmally not be able to kill such as Tyranitar who will most likely Pursuit you. Both are good options, however, it is up to your personal preference.
How are you going to beat infernape leads when they have Close Combat? Also how are you going to start off the game with Dragon Dance when you don't have Dragon Dance..? Also, Azelf can stop mixmence in its tracks with explosion as long as it doesn't get more that 1. But what can give you problems is SD Lucario especially if they have stealth rock set up. I recommend a
Gliscor @ Yache Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Evs: 252 hp, 40 atk, 216 spe
Nature: Jolly
Earthquake
Sword Dance
Roost
Stone Edge
This walls out Lucario and Heracross as an added bonus. Put this in any slot on your team but put it over Tyranitar since Tyranitar sets up SS but SS seriously hurts Jolteon and Salamence who definately don't like taking Life Orb Damage, Stealth Rock damage and SS damage.
Hope I helped and good luck with your team.
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Evs: 252 hp, 40 atk, 216 spe
Nature: Jolly
Earthquake
Sword Dance
Roost
Stone Edge
This walls out Lucario and Heracross as an added bonus. Put this in any slot on your team but put it over Tyranitar since Tyranitar sets up SS but SS seriously hurts Jolteon and Salamence who definately don't like taking Life Orb Damage, Stealth Rock damage and SS damage.
Hope I helped and good luck with your team.
Whoops, meant to change that. and also Infernape's non SD close combat from most of the focus sash variants only do about 85 - 95% to Tyranitar, letting me OHKO them with sandstorm taking away the last 6%.
Tyranitar isn't that great of a lead though and I was thinking of maybe switching back to Azelf. As I've been testing this on the shoddy ladder though, I win 8/10 matches with this team, so thats decent although there are alot of terrible teams out there so meh.
Tyranitar isn't that great of a lead though and I was thinking of maybe switching back to Azelf. As I've been testing this on the shoddy ladder though, I win 8/10 matches with this team, so thats decent although there are alot of terrible teams out there so meh.
CC does like, 152% minimum. I think you forgot that TTar is 4x weak to Fighting...Either that or you're using Chople Berry
Flamethrower should probably go over fire punch on Azelf since it'll do more damage to most steels than fire punch, even with the attack EVs.
Then I must have gotten really lucky twice in a row, because he survived 2 different players infernapes close combat's and OHKO'd back with Earthquake. ( were they using timid with 0 Attack EV's? )Meh Gotta fix then.
Also, changed the azelf fire punch back to flamethrower, just figured out it did more damage in a match.
I was also thinking maybe switching out Azelf/Salamence/jolteon for a Metagross as he's a great [physical sweeper and is also immune to sandstorm.
Also, changed the azelf fire punch back to flamethrower, just figured out it did more damage in a match.
I was also thinking maybe switching out Azelf/Salamence/jolteon for a Metagross as he's a great [physical sweeper and is also immune to sandstorm.
Timid 0 Atk EVs still does 110% =/
Then I have no idea what I was doing O_o Did I maybe go 252hp/252 def instead of attack? Maybe it was Mach punch they used?
Anyway , what would make a better lead? I kinda wanna keep a Tyranitar on my team though as his pursuit/ DD set's are among my favorite.
Edit* YES a pretty big update. My lead kinda sucks, but I've seen so many good - great players using it that I figured I'd conform as well, seeing as how I suck at "early game" and also trick bronzong/jirachi/uxie/azelf leads SUCK so I figured a good solution would be to have a choice scarf of my own so they just waste a turn :)
Anyway , what would make a better lead? I kinda wanna keep a Tyranitar on my team though as his pursuit/ DD set's are among my favorite.
Edit* YES a pretty big update. My lead kinda sucks, but I've seen so many good - great players using it that I figured I'd conform as well, seeing as how I suck at "early game" and also trick bronzong/jirachi/uxie/azelf leads SUCK so I figured a good solution would be to have a choice scarf of my own so they just waste a turn :)