meteor mash only raises 20% of the time, so I personally think that this argument is pretty negligible.
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CAP 7 CAP 7 - Part 16 - Complete Movepool Discussion/Submissions
- Thread starter Magmortified
- Start date
- Status
since when is 20% not enough of a chance to count? factor in that this only needs to have the effect go off once (which even with accuracy is 17% chance of going off) and that from then on you can use a that drops defense 50% of the time...
seriously, any statistics teacher will tell you to never ignore any factor of over 5% (or even lower if you are doing a poll or comparison and you don't have a low enough margin of error).
People seemed pretty set on the exclusive move, so I included it. I included Meteor Mash to (hopefully) cushion the hate for excluding EQ. Kitsunoh shouldn't be too hard to force out (Heatran and Magnezone would work great without EQ), so Meteor Mash is of (again, hopefully) zero consequence. Of course nothing is certain without actually playing, but we don't get to experiment with the sets.
On a side note, Meteor Mash' accuracy is not to be ignored. That thing is the devil ._.
and yet it's miss chance is less than the chance of activating the effect, even after the miss chance is factored in...
Plus your movepool is breaking some movepool guidelines by:
- More than 20 moves within your level-up list. The maximum number of moves should be around 16 (including Heart scale moves). Up to three competitive moves not TMs.
- You have 17 Egg moves. The maximum number of moves should be around 12. Up to four competitive move not TMs.
- You have illegal competitive move(s) within your movepool.
Some of your guys like 1059860 suffer from some of the problems Plus has(had). You might want to fix them before it's too late.
- More than 20 moves within your level-up list. The maximum number of moves should be around 16 (including Heart scale moves). Up to three competitive moves not TMs.
- You have 17 Egg moves. The maximum number of moves should be around 12. Up to four competitive move not TMs.
- You have illegal competitive move(s) within your movepool.
Some of your guys like 1059860 suffer from some of the problems Plus has(had). You might want to fix them before it's too late.
KnightoftheWind, Iron Defense is a stat up move, and as such unallowed.
Echoing Gothic Togekiss' concern for not following X-Act's guide. It's there for a reason @_@
On an unrelated note, would Zen Headbutt be considered competitive on Kitsunoh? Had it, lost it out of uncertainty. Others have it though and I would just like to be sure. If it's allowed, I'll add it back to mine.
EDIT: It is largly outdone by Iron Head due to STAB. However, it is not on the Allowed list and is listed as competitive (and I think it fits with this things stats), so I'll presume unallowed. Others may want to consider removing it unless my conclusion is stated incorrect by whoever has that authority.
Echoing Gothic Togekiss' concern for not following X-Act's guide. It's there for a reason @_@
On an unrelated note, would Zen Headbutt be considered competitive on Kitsunoh? Had it, lost it out of uncertainty. Others have it though and I would just like to be sure. If it's allowed, I'll add it back to mine.
EDIT: It is largly outdone by Iron Head due to STAB. However, it is not on the Allowed list and is listed as competitive (and I think it fits with this things stats), so I'll presume unallowed. Others may want to consider removing it unless my conclusion is stated incorrect by whoever has that authority.
As for Zen Headbutt...I dunno...
I can't really think of what use Kitsunoh would have for it outside of Flinching, because it barely puts a dent in any of its counters/checks. But, it's not Allowed, and the move discussion is closed off, so there's not much we can do about it...
===========
EDIT1: I'm seriously considering returning Meteor Mash to Kitsunoh's movepool; it's not particularly scary to anyone except Blissey, Latias, and Tyranitar, and most of Kitsunoh's counters/checks either take NVE damage from it (Bulky Waters, Zone, and (BAN ME PLEASE)), or shrug off a boosted SE attack (+1 Ice Punch does ~34%-40% to standard Hippo). Even in combination with Shadow Strike, the pHazing and Intimidate checks can either eliminate Kitsunoh, or scare it into U-Turning, if it has it. More importantly, this isn't Metagross we're talking about 0_0
Iron Tail has the same power as Meteor Mash, and acheives a similar effect; however, the accuracy is just horrid. High risk, high return, I suppose...I wonder how long Magmortified plans on leaving this part open for?
EDIT2:: I'm removing Assist from the movepool. I've seen how effecient Purugly and Persian are at using it, and Kitsunoh is the same thing, only with better resists and better Speed (I think). Sorry, Numbuh214 =(
EDIT3:: I have returned Meteor Mash to Kitsunoh's movepool, and added in Metal Sound as well. The reasons for Meteor Mash are listed in EDIT1.
I shall make no further edits to my movepool submission.
I can't really think of what use Kitsunoh would have for it outside of Flinching, because it barely puts a dent in any of its counters/checks. But, it's not Allowed, and the move discussion is closed off, so there's not much we can do about it...
===========
EDIT1: I'm seriously considering returning Meteor Mash to Kitsunoh's movepool; it's not particularly scary to anyone except Blissey, Latias, and Tyranitar, and most of Kitsunoh's counters/checks either take NVE damage from it (Bulky Waters, Zone, and (BAN ME PLEASE)), or shrug off a boosted SE attack (+1 Ice Punch does ~34%-40% to standard Hippo). Even in combination with Shadow Strike, the pHazing and Intimidate checks can either eliminate Kitsunoh, or scare it into U-Turning, if it has it. More importantly, this isn't Metagross we're talking about 0_0
Iron Tail has the same power as Meteor Mash, and acheives a similar effect; however, the accuracy is just horrid. High risk, high return, I suppose...I wonder how long Magmortified plans on leaving this part open for?
EDIT2:: I'm removing Assist from the movepool. I've seen how effecient Purugly and Persian are at using it, and Kitsunoh is the same thing, only with better resists and better Speed (I think). Sorry, Numbuh214 =(
EDIT3:: I have returned Meteor Mash to Kitsunoh's movepool, and added in Metal Sound as well. The reasons for Meteor Mash are listed in EDIT1.
I shall make no further edits to my movepool submission.
ShunWolfKin ~ Any reason why you excluded Ice fang/Ice Punch?
Polelover44 ~ Where's your tutor moves?
Kaxtar, Vividsketch, Freakyvillan, and Plus (despite some problems) got my absolutely attention. Got everything or nearly everything I want within CAP7 without pulling some crazy and illrational stunt in attempt to be different.
Polelover44 ~ Where's your tutor moves?
Kaxtar, Vividsketch, Freakyvillan, and Plus (despite some problems) got my absolutely attention. Got everything or nearly everything I want within CAP7 without pulling some crazy and illrational stunt in attempt to be different.
Code:
Level Up:
H. Fire Fang
H. Ice Fang
H. Thunder Fang
- Knock Off
- Me First
12. Shadow Sneak
15. Fake Out
20. Screech
20. Charm
20. Fake Tears
29. Body Slam
39. Crunch
44. Baton Pass
50. Shadow Strike
58. Meteor Mash
73. Psycho Shift
Code:
TMs:
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM58 - Endure
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
Code:
Move Tutor:
Ominous Wind
Helping Hand
Last Resort
Snore
Mud Slap
Superpower
Magnet Rise
Aqua Tail
Trick
Spite
Ice Punch
ThunderPunch
Fire Punch
Sucker Punch
Code:
Egg Moves
Haze
Tickle
Scary Face
Cross Chop
Grudge
Memento
Yawn
Curse
Perish Song
Reversal
Destiny Bond
MetronomeI took out some moves to make it legal.
wait, i just checked and it says "3 competitive moves worth using." how do we decided whats worth it and what isn't?
You obviously over looked mine then :(
Made a few small Edits to my Move List if any body is interested.
Psychic attacks hit two types for super-effective damage: Fighting and Poison. Kitsunoh is conveniently immune to both attack types, and thus isn't really threatened by them. It has no real reason to use Psychc attacks unless Poison/Fighting types are packing EQ or Fire Punch, by which rights every move would be competitive since nearly every type gets Earthquake or Fire Punch/Flamethrower.
Well...they're nothing inherently wrong with your submission. It looks perfectly legit and they're isn't anything you need to add/remove execpt maybe Wish for Moonlight. Wish is very team friendly and it's not an instant heal like Moonlight.
Regardless, DK, Kitsunoh doesn't get Zen Headbutt. Anyway...
I noticed a few of the submitted movepools have Meteor Mash under Egg Moves when it's of the Field (Ground) group. No Field type Pokemon gets Meteor Mash, so how is Kitsunoh supposed to get it (outside of Smeargle)? I've seen a similar scenario with Shadow Punch and Psycho Shift, as well.
If Kitsunoh was of the Fairy group, it could get Meteor Mash from Clefairy/Clefable >.>
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic (is it?), but it was just bugging me...
I noticed a few of the submitted movepools have Meteor Mash under Egg Moves when it's of the Field (Ground) group. No Field type Pokemon gets Meteor Mash, so how is Kitsunoh supposed to get it (outside of Smeargle)? I've seen a similar scenario with Shadow Punch and Psycho Shift, as well.
If Kitsunoh was of the Fairy group, it could get Meteor Mash from Clefairy/Clefable >.>
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic (is it?), but it was just bugging me...
Code:
[b]Level Up[/b]
HS. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/ice_fang"]Ice Fang[/URL]*
HS. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/thunder_fang"]Thunder Fang[/URL]*
--. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/astonish"]Astonish[/URL]
--. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/screech"]Screech[/URL]*
07. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/metal_claw"]Metal Claw[/URL]
12. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/shadow_sneak"]Shadow Sneak[/URL]
16. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/fake_out"]Fake Out[/URL]
21. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/confuse_ray"]Confuse Ray[/URL]
25. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/slash"]Slash[/URL]
30. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/copycat"]Copycat[/URL]
34. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/iron_head"]Iron Head[/URL]*
39. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/baton_pass"]Baton Pass[/URL]
43. [COLOR="Red"][U]Shadow Strike[/U][/COLOR]*
47. [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/memento"]Memento[/URL]*
Code:
[b]TM/HMs[/b]
[SIZE="1"]TM01 - Focus Punch
TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM04 - Calm Mind
TM05 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/roar"]Roar[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM06 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/toxic"]Toxic[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM09 - Bullet Seed
TM10 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/hidden_power"]Hidden Power[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/taunt"]Taunt[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/hyper_beam"]Hyper Beam[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/protect"]Protect[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM18 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/rain_dance"]Rain Dance[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM19 - Giga Drain
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/frustration"]Frustration[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM22 - SolarBeam
TM23 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/iron_tail"]Iron Tail[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM24 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/thunderbolt"]Thunderbolt[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM25 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/thunder"]Thunder[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM26 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/earthquake"]Earthquake[/URL]*
[SIZE="1"]TM27 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/return"]Return[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM28 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/dig"]Dig[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM29 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/psychic"]Psychic[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM30 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/shadow_ball"]Shadow Ball[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/double_team"]Double Team[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/shock_wave"]Shock Wave[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM35 - Flamethrower
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/sandstorm"]Sandstorm[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM38 - Fire Blast[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]TM39 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/rock_tomb"]Rock Tomb[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/torment"]Torment[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM42 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/facade"]Facade[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM43 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/secret_power"]Secret Power[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM44 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/rest"]Rest[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM45 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/attract"]Attract[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM46 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/thief"]Thief[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM47 - Steel Wing
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/snatch"]Snatch[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM50 - Overheat
TM51 - Roost
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/fling"]Fling[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/endure"]Endure[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM61 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/will-o-wisp"]Will-o-Wisp[/URL]*
[SIZE="1"]TM62 - Silver Wind
TM63 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/embargo"]Embargo[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM64 - Explosion
TM65 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/shadow_claw"]Shadow Claw[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM66 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/payback"]Payback[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/giga_impact"]Giga Impact[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM69 - Rock Polish
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM75 - Swords Dance
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM77 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/psych_up"]Psych Up[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM78 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/captivate"]Captivate[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM79 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/dark_pulse"]Dark Pulse[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM80 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/rock_slide"]Rock Slide[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM81 - X-scissor
TM82 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/sleep_talk"]Sleep Talk[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM83 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/natural_gift"]Natural Gift[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM84 - Poison Jab
TM85 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/dream_eater"]Dream Eater[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/swagger"]Swagger[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM88 - Pluck
TM89 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/u-turn"]U-turn[/URL]*
[SIZE="1"]TM90 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/substitute"]Substitute[/URL]*
[SIZE="1"]TM91 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/flash_cannon"]Flash Cannon[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/cut"]Cut[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]HM02 - Fly
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/strength"]Strength[/URL]
[SIZE="1"]HM05 - Defog
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall
HM08 - [/SIZE][URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/rock_climb"]Rock Climb[/URL]
Code:
[b]Tutor Moves[/b]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/knock_off"]Knock Off[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/ominous_wind"]Ominous Wind[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/sucker_punch"]Sucker Punch[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/trick"]Trick[/URL]*
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/zen_headbutt"]Zen Headbutt[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/snore"]Snore[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/spite"]Spite[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/iron_head"]Iron Head[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/superpower"]Superpower[/URL]*
Code:
[b]Egg Moves[/b]
(Ground egg group)
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/spite"]Spite[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/charm"]Charm[/URL]*
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/hypnosis"]Hypnosis[/URL]*
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/odor_sleuth"]Odor Sleuth[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/punishment"]Punishment[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/flail"]Flail[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/curse"]Curse[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/yawn"]Yawn[/URL]*
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/crunch"]Crunch[/URL]* = highly viable competitively
Will expand on later with explanations, etc. Please comment / criticize, thanks.
movepool ver.2.0
level up:
the majority of this movepool is based off the list provided, so i still am slightly in the air about which moves will or will not see play from this list. i did not include thunder fang on this list b/c more than once bulky waters were listed as possible checks and counters.
i listed fake out, destiny bond and shadow strike as my major competitive moves of this list, b/c i can see them being the most used. fake out is a scout classic and a focus sash breaker, meaning its always useful. destiny bond allows this poke to take out slower, more destructive pokes a la froslass (also, many people would prefer the kill over a stat down from memento). shadow strike is a good STAB for this poke, and also completely takes crunch out of the running.
as for the other moves; this thing will have too much to do to worry about the fangs. metal sound may find its place on a gimmick set, but that should be all. this thing is fast and fragile, not suitable for a status transferer like cres is, so psycho shift won't be used much. knock off is a great move, but how often will losing an item cause a switch? the rest are likely to be unusable.
tm list:
highlighted all the classic scout moves and moves that affect enemy items, plus EQ
tutor moves:
iron head (which i mentioned before would be the bread and butter), superpower and aqua tail for their power and coverage.
egg moves (ground, indeterminate):
i would also like to add healing wish (chimecho, loppuny) to the egg list, but that depends on if it is considered competitive or not.
i highlighted what i saw to be the three most likely picks from the list, as all of these are useful moves that cause switches.
as for the rest; baton pass is nice, but i doubt a dry pass will be chosen over u-turn by most people. charm is a nice move, but the fact that it leaves you so open to mixed attackers and special pokes leaves this wanting. the poke isn't defensive enough to use moonlight on a regular basis. why knock out some pp with grudge when you can knock out a poke with destiny bond? shadow claw likely won't be used over SS. spite, astonish and mist are hardly usable...
general comments:
i choose the fangs over the punches for non-aesthetic reasons. specificly, that it has a 10% flinch rate, which i find better for a scout.
i tried to make the total moves able to go in multiple directions. it should allow for scouting through threats, roaring, and status/stat-downs.
due to mag's comment before, i left in many special moves that could be used after a metal sound. it might be at best a gimmick, but if bastiodon can do it at 47 base SpA then this should be able to as well.
comments would be much appreciated and i will try to make changes based on them.
edit-i'm wondering if i should list the elemental punches in the tutors section...seems a bit overkill considering i already have the fangs. as stated, comments would be appreciated.
level up:
Code:
-fire fang (h)
-ice fang (h)
-[B]fake out[/B]
-scratch
-tail wag
5- confuse ray
11- quick attack
16- metal claw
22- metal sound
27- knock off
33- [B]destiny bond[/B]
38- crunch
43- psycho shift
49- [I][B]shadow strike[/B][/I]
54- mementoi listed fake out, destiny bond and shadow strike as my major competitive moves of this list, b/c i can see them being the most used. fake out is a scout classic and a focus sash breaker, meaning its always useful. destiny bond allows this poke to take out slower, more destructive pokes a la froslass (also, many people would prefer the kill over a stat down from memento). shadow strike is a good STAB for this poke, and also completely takes crunch out of the running.
as for the other moves; this thing will have too much to do to worry about the fangs. metal sound may find its place on a gimmick set, but that should be all. this thing is fast and fragile, not suitable for a status transferer like cres is, so psycho shift won't be used much. knock off is a great move, but how often will losing an item cause a switch? the rest are likely to be unusable.
tm list:
Code:
TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM09 - Bullet Seed
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - [B]Taunt[/B]
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - [B]Protect[/B]
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM26 - [B]Earthquake[/B]
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - [B]Torment[/B]
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - [B]Thief[/B]
TM49 - [B]Snatch[/B]
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM88 - [B]Pluck[/B]
TM89 - [B]U-turn[/B]
TM90 - [B]Substitute[/B]
TM91 - Flash Cannon
HM01 - Cut
HM05 - Defog
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climbtutor moves:
Code:
icy wind
vaccuum wave
fury cutter
swift
[B]superpower[/B]
[B]iron head[/B]
[B]aqua tail[/B]
earth power
last resort
heat waveegg moves (ground, indeterminate):
Code:
baton pass
[B]yawn[/B]
charm
astonish
shadow claw
moonlight
[B]glare[/B]
[B]perish song[/B]
grudge
spite
misti would also like to add healing wish (chimecho, loppuny) to the egg list, but that depends on if it is considered competitive or not.
i highlighted what i saw to be the three most likely picks from the list, as all of these are useful moves that cause switches.
as for the rest; baton pass is nice, but i doubt a dry pass will be chosen over u-turn by most people. charm is a nice move, but the fact that it leaves you so open to mixed attackers and special pokes leaves this wanting. the poke isn't defensive enough to use moonlight on a regular basis. why knock out some pp with grudge when you can knock out a poke with destiny bond? shadow claw likely won't be used over SS. spite, astonish and mist are hardly usable...
general comments:
i choose the fangs over the punches for non-aesthetic reasons. specificly, that it has a 10% flinch rate, which i find better for a scout.
i tried to make the total moves able to go in multiple directions. it should allow for scouting through threats, roaring, and status/stat-downs.
due to mag's comment before, i left in many special moves that could be used after a metal sound. it might be at best a gimmick, but if bastiodon can do it at 47 base SpA then this should be able to as well.
comments would be much appreciated and i will try to make changes based on them.
edit-i'm wondering if i should list the elemental punches in the tutors section...seems a bit overkill considering i already have the fangs. as stated, comments would be appreciated.
I've updated a couple facets of my movepool. The most important was probably changing the egg moves slightly and adding Superpower and Brick Break (on popular request!). It still follows X-Act's guidelines and competitive moves will still be bolded.
--------------------------
LEVEL UP MOVES
--------------------------
Ice Fang (Heart)
Thunder Fang (Heart)
Scratch (-)
Tail Whip (-)
Lick (6)
Odor Sleuth (10)
Faint Attack (14)
Shadow Sneak (18)
Copycat (22)
Metal Claw (27)
Memento (31)
Fake Out (35)
Shadow Claw (40)
Revenge (44)
Shadow Strike (49)
Perish Song (55)
Memento allows Kitsunoh to bring in another Pokemon safely after its scouting duties have finished. Due to its high Speed, it will normally be able to Memento before the opponent kills it. Perish Song does a great job of forcing switches and can aid the team in the event of a last-Pokemon set up. Shadow Strike is a great STAB option that vastly outpowers any of Kitsunoh's other attacking options.
----------------
TMs & HMs
----------------
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-Turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Rock Climb
Toxic is Kitsunoh's best option against Suicune and other bulky Waters. Taunt can stop the set up of Stealth Rock and other support moves, gathering vital information regarding the makeup of the opponent's set. Protect is the quintessential scouting move, allowing Kitsunoh to see one of the opponent's moves without taking direct damage. Earthquake gives Kitsunoh a stronger option against Metagross and Jirachi, however it still suffers against Skarmory and Bronzong. However, due to lack of STAB and extremely high base attack, Kitsunoh will not wreak unnecessary havoc with the move. Will-o-Wisp helps against Tyranitar and Metagross hoping to switch in against Kitsunoh. Brick Break is an option to hit Rock/Steel-types if you are uncomfortable with the Steel + Ground combo.
----------------------
TUTOR MOVES
----------------------
Ice Punch
ThunderPunch
Knock Off
Ominous Wind
Trick
Iron Head
Snore
Spite
Superpower
Icy Wind
I decided to give this the punches for a couple reasons. One big reason was the great coverage they give: With Meteor Mash and Earthquake, they provide key coverage on many threats. This scout needs some firepower in order to force out big threats, so thats why they went in over the Fangs. However as you can see, the fangs are still in the movepool as flavor moves. Trick and Knock off are obvious tools for a scout, because both reveal the item of the opponent, and unlike Frisk, cripple them in the process. Iron Head is a reliable STAB move that can be used well due to its ability to flinch and Kitsunoh's high Speed. You can use Superpower if you want, in place of Steel + Ground to hit Rock/Steel-types.
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EGG MOVES (Ground Group)
------------------
Featherdance
Metal Sound
Curse
Flail
Psycho Shift
Mud Slap
Yawn
Meteor Mash
Featherdance provides a good alternative for WoW, in that it can lower attack repeatedly, and to statused opponents. Psycho Shift is not competitive, as Kitsunoh has access to WoW, Toxic, and limber. The only status it could pass is Sleep, from a rest talk set. That uses up 3 of 4 moves, and leaving room for only 1 offensive move or U-Turn, which is rarely useful. Yawn is yet another status, it is a scouting status, as most would prefer to switch than take the sleep. With Kitsunoh's overall type coverage, anything with -2 defense will take a decent hit. Meteor Mash provides an alternative to Iron Head as steel STAB.
The Egg group is Ground, so Kitsunoh can get all its egg moves from Smeargle.
--------------------------
LEVEL UP MOVES
--------------------------
Ice Fang (Heart)
Thunder Fang (Heart)
Scratch (-)
Tail Whip (-)
Lick (6)
Odor Sleuth (10)
Faint Attack (14)
Shadow Sneak (18)
Copycat (22)
Metal Claw (27)
Memento (31)
Fake Out (35)
Shadow Claw (40)
Revenge (44)
Shadow Strike (49)
Perish Song (55)
Memento allows Kitsunoh to bring in another Pokemon safely after its scouting duties have finished. Due to its high Speed, it will normally be able to Memento before the opponent kills it. Perish Song does a great job of forcing switches and can aid the team in the event of a last-Pokemon set up. Shadow Strike is a great STAB option that vastly outpowers any of Kitsunoh's other attacking options.
----------------
TMs & HMs
----------------
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-Turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Rock Climb
Toxic is Kitsunoh's best option against Suicune and other bulky Waters. Taunt can stop the set up of Stealth Rock and other support moves, gathering vital information regarding the makeup of the opponent's set. Protect is the quintessential scouting move, allowing Kitsunoh to see one of the opponent's moves without taking direct damage. Earthquake gives Kitsunoh a stronger option against Metagross and Jirachi, however it still suffers against Skarmory and Bronzong. However, due to lack of STAB and extremely high base attack, Kitsunoh will not wreak unnecessary havoc with the move. Will-o-Wisp helps against Tyranitar and Metagross hoping to switch in against Kitsunoh. Brick Break is an option to hit Rock/Steel-types if you are uncomfortable with the Steel + Ground combo.
----------------------
TUTOR MOVES
----------------------
Ice Punch
ThunderPunch
Knock Off
Ominous Wind
Trick
Iron Head
Snore
Spite
Superpower
Icy Wind
I decided to give this the punches for a couple reasons. One big reason was the great coverage they give: With Meteor Mash and Earthquake, they provide key coverage on many threats. This scout needs some firepower in order to force out big threats, so thats why they went in over the Fangs. However as you can see, the fangs are still in the movepool as flavor moves. Trick and Knock off are obvious tools for a scout, because both reveal the item of the opponent, and unlike Frisk, cripple them in the process. Iron Head is a reliable STAB move that can be used well due to its ability to flinch and Kitsunoh's high Speed. You can use Superpower if you want, in place of Steel + Ground to hit Rock/Steel-types.
------------------
EGG MOVES (Ground Group)
------------------
Featherdance
Metal Sound
Curse
Flail
Psycho Shift
Mud Slap
Yawn
Meteor Mash
Featherdance provides a good alternative for WoW, in that it can lower attack repeatedly, and to statused opponents. Psycho Shift is not competitive, as Kitsunoh has access to WoW, Toxic, and limber. The only status it could pass is Sleep, from a rest talk set. That uses up 3 of 4 moves, and leaving room for only 1 offensive move or U-Turn, which is rarely useful. Yawn is yet another status, it is a scouting status, as most would prefer to switch than take the sleep. With Kitsunoh's overall type coverage, anything with -2 defense will take a decent hit. Meteor Mash provides an alternative to Iron Head as steel STAB.
The Egg group is Ground, so Kitsunoh can get all its egg moves from Smeargle.
We're finished here.
- Status