CAP 7 CAP 7 - Part 16b - Complete Movepool Poll 2

Which movepool?


  • Total voters
    181
Status
Not open for further replies.

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Our Pokemon so far:

Name: Kitsunoh

Phoxfinal.jpg

fox4.png


Name: Ultimate Scout
Description: A Pokemon that is very capable of forcing the opponent to reveal vital information about their team members and their moves using various techniques.

Type: Steel / Ghost
Ability: Frisk / Limber
Stats: 80 HP / 103 Atk / 85 Def /55 SpA /80 SpD /110 Spe

darkie:
I've updated a couple facets of my movepool. The most important was probably changing the egg moves slightly and adding Superpower and Brick Break (on popular request!). It still follows X-Act's guidelines and competitive moves will still be bolded.

--------------------------
LEVEL UP MOVES
--------------------------
Ice Fang (Heart)
Thunder Fang (Heart)
Scratch (-)
Tail Whip (-)
Lick (6)
Odor Sleuth (10)
Faint Attack (14)
Shadow Sneak (18)
Copycat (22)
Metal Claw (27)
Memento (31)
Fake Out (35)
Shadow Claw (40)
Revenge (44)
Shadow Strike (49)
Perish Song (55)

Memento allows Kitsunoh to bring in another Pokemon safely after its scouting duties have finished. Due to its high Speed, it will normally be able to Memento before the opponent kills it. Perish Song does a great job of forcing switches and can aid the team in the event of a last-Pokemon set up. Shadow Strike is a great STAB option that vastly outpowers any of Kitsunoh's other attacking options.

----------------
TMs & HMs
----------------
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-Turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Rock Climb

Toxic is Kitsunoh's best option against Suicune and other bulky Waters. Taunt can stop the set up of Stealth Rock and other support moves, gathering vital information regarding the makeup of the opponent's set. Protect is the quintessential scouting move, allowing Kitsunoh to see one of the opponent's moves without taking direct damage. Earthquake gives Kitsunoh a stronger option against Metagross and Jirachi, however it still suffers against Skarmory and Bronzong. However, due to lack of STAB and extremely high base attack, Kitsunoh will not wreak unnecessary havoc with the move. Will-o-Wisp helps against Tyranitar and Metagross hoping to switch in against Kitsunoh. Brick Break is an option to hit Rock/Steel-types if you are uncomfortable with the Steel + Ground combo.

----------------------
TUTOR MOVES
----------------------
Ice Punch
ThunderPunch
Knock Off
Ominous Wind
Trick
Iron Head
Snore
Spite
Superpower
Icy Wind

I decided to give this the punches for a couple reasons. One big reason was the great coverage they give: With Meteor Mash and Earthquake, they provide key coverage on many threats. This scout needs some firepower in order to force out big threats, so thats why they went in over the Fangs. However as you can see, the fangs are still in the movepool as flavor moves. Trick and Knock off are obvious tools for a scout, because both reveal the item of the opponent, and unlike Frisk, cripple them in the process. Iron Head is a reliable STAB move that can be used well due to its ability to flinch and Kitsunoh's high Speed. You can use Superpower if you want, in place of Steel + Ground to hit Rock/Steel-types.

------------------
EGG MOVES (Ground Group)
------------------
Featherdance
Metal Sound
Curse
Flail
Psycho Shift
Mud Slap
Yawn
Meteor Mash

Featherdance provides a good alternative for WoW, in that it can lower attack repeatedly, and to statused opponents. Psycho Shift is not competitive, as Kitsunoh has access to WoW, Toxic, and limber. The only status it could pass is Sleep, from a rest talk set. That uses up 3 of 4 moves, and leaving room for only 1 offensive move or U-Turn, which is rarely useful. Yawn is yet another status, it is a scouting status, as most would prefer to switch than take the sleep. With Kitsunoh's overall type coverage, anything with -2 defense will take a decent hit. Meteor Mash provides an alternative to Iron Head as steel STAB.

The Egg group is Ground, so Kitsunoh can get all its egg moves from Smeargle.

Deck Knight:
Humbly submitted for your approval.

Code:
[B]Level-Up:[/B]

H. Me First
- Scratch
- Growl
07. Fake Out
11. Metal Claw
14. Shadow Sneak
17. Yawn
22. Confuse Ray
25. Magic Coat
29. Scary Face
33. [B]Shadow Strike[/B]
36. Screech
36. Metal Sound
43. [B]Glare[/B]
49. Perish Song
56. [B]Meteor Mash[/B]

[B]Level-Up Move count: 16[/B]

Directly viable, non-TM, and competitively reliable: Shadow Strike, Glare, Meteor Mash.

Useful but not game-breaking: Me First, Fake Out, Shadow Sneak, Yawn, Confuse Ray, Magic Coat, Scary Face, Screech, Metal Sound, Perish Song.

Code:
[B]Egg Moves:

Egg Group: Ground/Indeterminate[/B]

Charm
Poison Fang
Pain Split
Curse
Fire Punch
Thunderpunch
Ice Punch
[B]Moonlight
Destiny Bond[/B]
Double Kick
[B]Memento[/B]
Haze

[B]Egg Move count: 12[/B]

Directly viable, non-TM, competitively reliable: Memento, Moonlight, Destiny Bond.

Useful but not game-breaking: Charm, Elemental Punches, Pain Split, Curse, Haze

Code:
[B]TM List:[/B]

TM03: Water Pulse
TM05: [B]Roar[/B]
TM06: Toxic
TM10: Hidden Power
TM11: Sunny Day
TM12: [B]Taunt[/B]
TM13: [B]Ice Beam[/B]
TM14: [B]Blizzard[/B]
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM20: [B]Safeguard[/B]
TM21: Frustration
TM23: [B]Iron Tail[/B]
TM24: [B]Thunderbolt[/B]
TM25: [B]Thunder[/B]
TM26: [B]Earthquake[/B]
TM27: Return
TM28: Dig
TM29: Psychic
TM30: [B]Shadow Ball[/B]
TM31: [B]Brick Break[/B]
TM32: Double Team
TM34: Shock Wave
TM36: Sludge Bomb
TM37: Sandstorm
TM39: Rock Tomb
TM40: Aerial Ace
TM41: [B]Torment[/B]
TM42: Facade
TM43: Secret Power
TM44: Rest
TM45: Attract
TM46: Thief
TM48: [B]Skill Swap[/B]
TM49: [B]Snatch[/B]
TM54: False Swipe
TM58: Endure
TM61: [B]Will-O-Wisp[/B]
TM63: Embargo
TM65: [B]Shadow Claw[/B]
TM66: Payback
TM67: [B]Recycle[/B]
TM68: Giga Impact
TM70: Flash
TM71: [B]Stone Edge[/B]
TM72: [B]Avalanche[/B]
TM77: [B]Psych Up[/B]
TM78: Captivate
TM79: Dark Pulse
TM80: [B]Rock Slide[/B]
TM82: Sleep Talk
TM83: Natural Gift
TM85: Dream Eater
TM87: Swagger
TM89: [B]U-turn[/B]
TM90: Substitute
TM91: [B]Flash Cannon[/B]
TM92: [B]Trick Room[/B]
HM01: Cut
HM04: Strength
HM06: Rock Smash
HM08: Rock Climb

Code:
[B]Tutor Moves:[/B]
Fury Cutter
Icy Wind
[B]Knock Off[/B]
Ominous Wind
[B]Sucker Punch
Trick
Vacuum Wave
Zen Headbutt[/B]
Helping Hand
Last Resort
[B]Magnet Rise[/B]
Snore
Spite
[B]Aqua Tail[/B]
[B]Iron Head[/B]
Mud Slap
[B]Superpower[/B]

Notable TMs and Tutors:

Attacks:
Earthquake, Iron Tail, Brick Break, Stone Edge, Avalanche, Rock Slide, U-turn
Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave, Zen Headbutt, Aqua Tail, Iron Head, Superpower

Support:
Roar, Taunt, Safeguard, Torment, Skill Swap, Snatch, Will-O-Wisp, Psych Up, Trick Room
Trick, Magnet Rise

Notable omissions:


Special fire moves, Baton Pass.

I've slightly come around on the Punches and have decided that the elemental punches themselves are not particularly egregious (Cross Chop, Drain Punch, and Focus Punch however, are.) I have them in Egg Moves and not tutors, but it's largely a distinction without a difference since I'm assuming Ground Egg group. The reason I don't support special fire moves is because most Ghost and Steel types do not learn them, and while I want a Metal Sound set to be viable, I thought fire moves and Earth Power would be too much.

Use the clicky poll above to vote.
 
voted deck knight due to the fact that i see fake out as crucial and that metal sound allows for alternate builds.

though i would have preferred no MM/SS combo...
 
So two votes casted because they didn't look carefully enough. I'm feeling confident about this outcome.

I can't decide now. I'll cast my vote later, though I'm leaning towards Deck Knight.
 
Voted Deck Knight due to wanting Moonlight and Glare, two pretty useful support moves.

Much less important, but it annoys me:

I find having Meteor Mash as an Egg Move that can only be obtained from Smeargle incredibly graceless and clunky since it's such an exclusive move - it really should be level up. I know it doesn't affect competitive play, it just makes the movepool look badly designed.

Another thing about darkie's movepool that jarrs is that Featherdance is a Flying type exclusive move with the same effect as Charm, a much more widely spread move. Why use Featherdance on something that has no feathers and is exclusive to another type? It just looks unproffessional is all. And once again the move comes only from Smeargle.

So I guess having two very Very exclusive moves as Egg Moves coming only from the pokemon that learns Every move puts me off.

Since the Movepool part of CAP strongly parodies the structure of real pokemon movepools even down to irrelevant stuff like the level at which moves are learned, and since we're supposed to adhere to the game precedents and conventions listed in X-Act's guide, I don't see why darkie should get a free pass when he created a movepool that looks so out of sync with the movepools of real pokemon.

Not to mention that No Pokemon gets both the Elemental Punches AND Elemental Fangs, it just looks contrived.
 
They both have those moves?
edit-yeah, actually you're right, didn't notice the metal sound in darkie's egg move list.

edit @ jagged-completely didnt think of the featherdance argument. though i am surprised that within all your post that you didn't touch on the fact that darkie's only had one steel move in the level up, even though it was the poke's main type.
 
I was referring to the fact that you said you were voting for Deck Knight because it had both Fake Out and Metal Sound.
 
Voted Deck Knight due to wanting Moonlight and Glare, two pretty useful support moves.

Much less important, but it annoys me:

I find having Meteor Mash as an Egg Move that can only be obtained from Smeargle incredibly graceless and clunky since it's such an exclusive move - it really should be level up. I know it doesn't affect competitive play, it just makes the movepool look badly designed.

Another thing about darkie's movepool that jarrs is that Featherdance is a Flying type exclusive move with the same effect as Charm, a much more widely spread move. Why use Featherdance on something that has no feathers and is exclusive to another type? It just looks unproffessional is all. And once again the move comes only from Smeargle.

So I guess having two very Very exclusive moves as Egg Moves coming only from the pokemon that learns Every move puts me off.

Since the Movepool part of CAP strongly parodies the structure of real pokemon movepools even down to irrelevant stuff like the level at which moves are learned, and since we're supposed to adhere to the game precedents and conventions listed in X-Act's guide, I don't see why darkie should get a free pass when he created a movepool that looks so out of sync with the movepools of real pokemon.

Not to mention that No Pokemon gets both the Elemental Punches AND Elemental Fangs, it just looks contrived.

Granbull and Tyranitar would like a word with you on the last bit >_>

EDIT: Also Rhyperior.
 
Hm... I wanted to go with Deck Knight because of Moonlight, but I went with darkie's because of Meteor Mash.
Deck Knight's has Meteor Mash...now

I didn't want Meteor Mash but Deck Knight's still appeals to me most

Hey you above me could be a little more grateful for that mini-wall of text supporting you :P
 
Hey you above me could be a little more grateful for that mini-wall of text supporting you :P

Hehe the mini wall of text was mostly picking at darkie's movepool rather than lauding DK's but hey ho I did forget about those Fang/Punch pokemon. Still I do think movepools deserve a bit of elegance - like last time when X-Act made key Egg Moves come from different pokemon so that you couldn't have them in one moveset. Very clever, and what's more, that's how movepools really are. All the shouts of 'flavour, it's not important' don't change the fact that this project is based on an existing game, that has conventions and mechanics that we adhere to. Or try to!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top