Emergency Solutions for Platinum Weather Glitch

How should we immediately handle the Platinum weather glitch?

  • Ban Pursuit while keeping Platinum changes

    Votes: 3 8.1%

  • Ban weather while keeping Platinum changes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Revert to Diamond/Pearl mechanics, sacrificing Platinum changes

    Votes: 4 10.8%

  • Do nothing and play Pokémon: Shoddy Edition

    Votes: 30 81.1%
  • Total voters
    37
EeveeTrainer

EeveeTrainer

The purpose of this thread is to discuss "emergency" solutions to the problem presented by the Platinum weather glitch. We cannot continue to use a simulator that utilizes the mechanics of some fantastical halfway point between Diamond/Pearl and Platinum. At this point, it simply has to be accepted that:

Rotom formes/60% accurate Hypnosis/Skymin/Giratina-O and a fully-functional Pursuit are mutually exclusive.


Unless and until it is implemented (at which point we would have to discuss the problems the glitch presents to our metagame), I suggest that we either:

* Return to the Diamond/Pearl battle mechanics. All Platinum changes are withheld from Shoddy, including Hypnosis's accuracy drop, Rotom formes, Skymin, and Giratina-O. Platinum-exclusive movesets stay, however, because they can exist in Diamond/Pearl.

OR

* Ban Pursuit while keeping the Platinum changes.

OR

* Ban weather while keeping the Platinum changes. This would, unfortunately, involve banning Pokemon with auto-weather abilities.

If the glitch is ever implemented, Pursuit would likely still have to be banned (because of the massive effect the glitch has on the metagame, including freezing the game in certain situations), so take that into account. Furthermore, the matter of host versus slave should be ignored for our purposes, because if the glitch can be activated AT ALL in a battle -- doesn't matter by who -- it has to be considered a threat to the metagame. And because this is the only battle mechanic which makes the distinction between host and slave apparent in battle (aside from which Pokemon appears first at the beginning of battle, which is completely irrelevant), the removal of this glitch -- via the banning of Pursuit or reversion to Diamond/Pearl mechanics -- means that the host/slave matter does not need to be addressed by Shoddy.

Before anyone suggests that we "do nothing" and just play an idealistic Pokémon: Shoddy Edition, please answer the following question: Do you also support fixing other glitches in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, such as Fire Fang hitting through Wonder Guard? If not, why should we take the liberty of fixing this glitch but not others?
 
My solution would be to have a few options of play:

  • DP only
  • Platinum with Pursuit banned ("Pursuit clause")
  • Platinum with weather banned ("Weather clause")
  • Platinum with Castform and Cherrim banned because they cause the game to last forever ("Castform / Cherrim clause")


DP only is probably unacceptable as the primary form of play for most people, but I do think it's a valid option.
 
Obi said:
My solution would be to have a few options of play:
  • DP only
  • Platinum with Pursuit banned ("Pursuit clause")
  • Platinum with weather banned ("Weather clause")
  • Platinum with Castform and Cherrim banned because they cause the game to last forever ("Castform / Cherrim clause")
DP only is probably unacceptable as the primary form of play for most people, but I do think it's a valid option.
Click to expand...

Obi, your last solution is insufficient, as it assumes not only that the glitch is implemented into Shoddy, but that we do not care about the other effects of the glitch. What we need is a quick "emergency" solution before the glitch is implemented so that we are assured we are playing real Pokemon.
 
Quick post

I think Castform/Cherrim clause will hurt the least as really they don't see much use.

DP only means there are some valuable Pokemon lost in the process, and we've grown so attached to them being around that it doesn't feel quite right

Platinum with Pursuit banned is a logical option, but I'd rather have Pursuit activate the glitch rather than it being banned.

Platinum with weather banned means no TTar/Abomasnow/Groudon. TTar is a common force in OU, and in Ubers, Groudon can play an incredibly vital role in stopping a rain team from sweeping (speaking of rain Kyogre is not mentioned because the glitch doesn't do anything to Drizzle rain...not sure about normal rain). The metagame would shift very heavily from this clause, and I think it will be much worse than having to deal with acid weather.

In this case of emergency I'd just go for "Pokemon Shoddy version" because really it's not the actual game anyways because Shoddy already have bugs not addressed (Protect working through switches, Ice Beam hitting through Shadow Force during invisible turn, etc)
 
I personally think that banning Pursuit is the fairest option, as it is currently a glitched move. If and when the glitch is implemented into Shoddy, we can either keep Pursuit banned or -- if it is deemed that the glitch is tolerable in our metagame -- ban only Castform/Cherrim, who freeze the game under the glitch.
 
I see no reason to do something as extreme as banning Pursuit or reverting to DP when banning Cherrim and Castform would suffice. I would prefer to simply ban those two Pokemon, while sticking to DPP, weather glitch and all.
 
Banning Castform and Cherrim solves nothing. This is to find a fix to make it simulate an environment where Freak Weather doesn't happen. EIither through baninng the methods it comes from, or by choosing a battle environment where it doesn't exsist
 
This sucks.

All the options are really bad except for leaving things as they are now, which is just plain irresponsible.

If I had to chose I'd say just ban Cherrim/Castform (alternatively fix them? though I'm not sure that's possible) and keep the rest of the weather glitch intact because its the second least sucky option.

EDIT- Though is people really think C/C ban won't solve anything... then I think Pursuit or Weather should be banned. I really think the most current environment should be the one we play in. Uhh if I had to choose I'd say ban Pursuit since it involves less banning of pokemon (also you'd be banning Groudon from Ubers which is .-.)

EDIT2- Of course I also think all the stupid miscellaneious glitches should be fixed too no matter how inconvenient they are (sorry doug/programmers)
 
You cannot keep the glitch intact because any system of choosing a host and giving both players different sets of circumstances to work with is inherently uncompetitive.

The only "acceptable" solutions are to ban Pursuit (and accept the obvious tiering changes that will come with it) or just use D/P mechanics.

Of course, I don't feel that this glitch does anything apart from harm the game and everyone who plays it, so "play Pokemon: Shoddy Edition" seems like the obvious choice here. I mean, the whole point of Shoddy would seem to be to play Pokemon without the flaws (it has always included an undo move function, which does not exist in any Pokemon games, and includes Sleep clause in a fashion that is also not "possible," not to mention instantly allowing players to use 31-all pokemon). Removing a glitch that is 100% not supposed to be there (it can freeze the game, and anyone who says that whoever programmed it could have had something against Castform and Cherrim is clearly not using common sense, as any self-respecting software company would not want something with a glitch so big that it freezes the game to go to market) seems like an obvious way to make Pokemon better. And no this does not mean we have to debate the authorial intent of every single game mechanic in existence, as none before this have ever had the possibility to freeze the game. It is quite fair to simply assume that things are suppossed to work the way they do unless there is compelling evidence that they were not, and the ability to freeze the game just happens to be that compelling evidence.


Elevator Music said:
All the options are really bad except for leaving things as they are now, which is just plain irresponsible
Click to expand...
What would be irresponsible is to keep so obvious and damaging of a glitch, when it can easily be fixed simply by doing nothing. If Smogon decides to implement this glitch, I will gladly play on a server that does not have it, and I'm sure the majority of members (and even some who post in this forum) share the sentiment. It wasn't meant to be there, that fact is objectively obvious, and it's bad for the game. We have the ability to fix Nintendo's mistake and make the game better for everyone who plays it, why would we ever want to go in the opposite direction?
 
Well for the most part I agree except everyone knows someone is giong to post along the lines of, "Well if we're not going to implement this change why implement IV restrictions". I don't want to get into the designer intent argument since we've all been there done that.


Really I feel that it would be best if we could figure out a point where glitches (or 'mechanics' if you prefer) start being too detremental to the metagame to be included. I hadn't brought it up in my first post because I know it won't fly, mainly because of how subjective and vague that is.
 
This is not the place to decide whether to implement the glitch. This thread is to decide what to do in the meantime.

For me, the mechanics come first, no matter how uncompetitive they may be. Pokemon is inherently an uncompetitive game, but we come up with rules to make it competitive. IMO, it's Pokemon first and competition second. That's why I don't believe we should do nothing.

The other choices let us put off the decision to implement the glitch while maintaining the mechanics. For me, the decision is based on my perception of each alternative's impact on the metagame. I rank the remaining choices based on metagame impact as follows (1 = biggest impact):

1. D/P mechanics

2. Banning weather (i.e. Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Hippopotas, Abomasnow, Snover, Groudon, Hail, Sandstorm, and Sunny Day; All indications point to rain not being affected. I can only imagine how much Rain teams would appreciate this... or would we ban rain, as well, just to be fair?)

3. Banning Pursuit

Now that I look at it, the order of 1 and 2 could probably be up for debate. It's a moot point, though. I can't see how banning Pursuit could possibly be worse than those two.

That's why I'm voting to ban Pursuit.
 
Elevator Music said:
Really I feel that it would be best if we could figure out a point where glitches (or 'mechanics' if you prefer) start being too detremental to the metagame to be included. I hadn't brought it up in my first post because I know it won't fly, mainly because of how subjective and vague that is.
Click to expand...
"If it creates an advantage/disadvantage for only one player and has the potential to freeze the game" seems like a good place to start. Especially since, as I have stated numerous times before, the latter is conclusive proof that it was not intended.

Elevator Music said:
Well for the most part I agree except everyone knows someone is giong to post along the lines of, "Well if we're not going to implement this change why implement IV restrictions". I don't want to get into the designer intent argument since we've all been there done that.
Click to expand...
IV restrictions are a trivial issue that do not impact anything to a great extent. They are certainly not damaging to the competitive spirit of the game in the same sense that the Pursuit glitch is, nor do they have the potential to freeze the game. As I said in my previous post, designer intent can be "assumed" unless the mechanic produces such a silly and undesireable result that even the game designer could not have logically wanted it there. There literally has never been another glitch of this magnitude to have this discussion about, so "if it's in the cartridge, it goes into Shoddy" has been a reasonable guidepost to follow up until this point. When that reasoning was developed, I'm sure the majority of people never imagined anything like this glitch would ever happen.
 
I would like to ask that people consider this as a solution for wifi play only. Do not think about shoddy when you make your arguments. I feel it is vital to create a wifi solution before we can begin to discuss a solution for shoddy.

So, if you're making a post in the Battle Me thread on the wifi board, which do you put in your post?

Platinum clause
Weather clause
Pursuit clause
Castform/Cherrim clause.
 
Why should we have to? We have the chance to make the game undeniably better. I say take it.

Besides, all official Smogon tournaments and the like are held on Shoddy anyways. Not to mention there's a possibility that since this is glitch in the game's code, someone could always make an AR code to correct it much like was done to allow Skymin and the Rotom forms on wi-fi. If I were to make a post in the Battle Me thread, "philosophy" and "not playing Pokemon" aside, that would be my ideal solution.
 
So, if you're making a post in the Battle Me thread on the wifi board, which do you put in your post?

Platinum clause
Weather clause
Pursuit clause
Castform/Cherrim clause.
Click to expand...
IMO this is highly opinionated and can depend largely on what metagame you wish to play. For instance, it may not have an impact if you go for the showdown metagame, because Pursuit is super rare, and Sunny day teams aren't that common.

I don't want to sacrifice Platinum mechanics. I want to use Gira-O/Skymin/Rotom-A on WiFi (well not legitimately obviously but still). At the expense of not being able to record battles, as well as losing formes, I'd say no to this. Of course, this is more of opinion than anything, because I don't have any argument to back up for this. Competitively and legally this could be the best option.

Weather clause is just ridiculous. Groudon ban in ubers anyone?

Pursuit clause is logical, but I'd rather face the glitch than having to ban Pursuit just because it can activate the glitch. Pursuit can be an important move at times. It's a punishment on both sides unless one side makes a team to abuse it. Since I play ubers, Abomasnow is pretty rare, and the second thing on the list to create a weather nearly as devastating as 'snow is Groudon, which I can cancel out with my own. Also, as mentioned rain doesn't get affected by this.

Castform/Cherrim clause works best because the likelyhood of them being used is rare, and it's not like ladder where you would end up with someone with those two unknowingly. If you clause this before the battle then the opponent's not going to use them unless he/she wants to be cheap.
 
Simply not implementing the glitch on Shoddy would be the same as removing it from the cartridges through the use of AR. I honestly think time would be better spent attempting to get this glitch out of wifi (assuming it's possible) than putting it into Shoddy.

Jibaku, if you ban Cherrim/Castform, you still have the issue of who's the host in ladder battles to deal with, as well as trying to deal with the fact that it's a hell of a lot easier for one player to get rid of Latias, Gengar, and Rotom by using Pursuit with no consequence to themselves than it is for the other player to do the same, because using the move will activate the glitch for one player only.
 
The point of this thread is to discuss a "right now" (emergency) solution to the Platinum glitch. The "emergency" solutions each attempt to preclude the situations which would cause it to activate. It seems -- at least right now -- that PR-posters would prefer to ignore the glitch (thereby being unfaithful to the cartridge) than remove a key move like Pursuit or a key Pokemon like Rotom-H.

When the glitch is better understood, the decision will eventually have to be made as to whether it should be implemented into Shoddy or ignored. That right now isn't an option, as it would obviously take time to research and code -- especially figuring out what to do with the host/slave issue.
 
I don't think the glitch should be implemented at all, so it's clear that I do not support doing anything at all right now as a result.
 
Can someone who supports 'doing nothing' can you please answer this:

Before anyone suggests that we "do nothing" and just play an idealistic Pokémon: Shoddy Edition, please answer the following question: Do you also support fixing other glitches in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, such as Fire Fang hitting through Wonder Guard? If not, why should we take the liberty of fixing this glitch but not others?
Click to expand...
 
Because those glitches have at least questionable authorial intent. This glitch is without a doubt not intended by the producers of the game, because it creates a situation in which the game becomes completely unplayable without turning it off. No self-respecting software company would do that.

When the intent of something is up for debate, it's acceptable to err on the side of caution and just accept it. The intent of this one is clearly not up for debate, and those who wish to debate it lack any form of common sense.
 
That the Weather Glitch is not in Shoddy Battle is a bug in Shoddy Battle. This is a simple fact, not a point for debate.

However, personally I don't think an emergency solution is important and instead somebody should implement the glitch and then Obi's final option can be implemented when that is done.

There are other bugs in Shoddy Battle. We plan to fix them when we can, not make emergency solutions that avoid them ever coming up.
 
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