CAP 8 CAP 8 - Concept Assessment

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@pkmn-taicho321
Okay, so Forretress and to a lesser extent Gliscor are both Defensively minded and have 4x weaknesses.
Poison can't be completely outclassed by Dragon, you claim it has only two weaknesses? Well so does Poison. (Although Dragon has spectacular neutral coverage...)
Steels can be sent in, but can they really DO anything? The Electric typing will nullify what most Steels can do, unless its Metagross. But Meta hurts lots of things =(
And my whole point was to explain that even though the Pokemon have a 4x weakness to something, it can still roll. Thank you for building on that.
I also ask that you keep Secondary type discussion in the Secondary type discussion thread, that would kind of make sense. =/
 
Actually, looking at the Pokemon that obtain Tinted Lens:
Illumise
Venomoth
Yanmega

Now, Yanmega is probably the best user of Tinted Lens, but Tinted Lens is outclassed by Speed Boost (okay, I fucked up and said it was Compoudeyes but whatever), and so isn't used as much as Speed Boost. It is still used, but the fact that it is often dropped in favour of the better Speed Boost is what makes it Neglected.
Venomoth however, almost always uses Tinted Lens, as it is very attack-based.
The same applies for Illumise, as Oblivious is just...obsolete, at best.

Now, when 2 out of 3 Tinted Lens users have Tinted Lens as their Primary, almost ONLY Ability, does this make it neglected?
 
How often do you see Venomoth and Illumise? Think about it. It's not about "are these abilities used on pokemon," it's "are these abilities used on pokemon in the metagame." Your post is ridiculous. "Oh hai guys, Caterpie uses teh Shield Dust. Das not neglected G."
 
Elegy of Emptiness said:
@pkmn-taicho321
Okay, so Forretress and to a lesser extent Gliscor are both Defensively minded and have 4x weaknesses.
Poison can't be completely outclassed by Dragon, you claim it has only two weaknesses? Well so does Poison. (Although Dragon has spectacular neutral coverage...)
Steels can be sent in, but can they really DO anything? The Electric typing will nullify what most Steels can do, unless its Metagross. But Meta hurts lots of things =(
And my whole point was to explain that even though the Pokemon have a 4x weakness to something, it can still roll. Thank you for building on that.
I also ask that you keep Secondary type discussion in the Secondary type discussion thread, that would kind of make sense. =/
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You're forgetting that almost every steel has access to a ground type move, and anything with a ground typing gets STAB on CAP8. lawls I think I got complimented?

Anyway it's not even really worth argueing or ranting about anymore, seening as how dragon and bug are pretty much the only two types that have any chance of winning. Either way I've made up my mind to start backing air lock/ cloud nine for abilities. God knows if this thing is a special attacker it would nice to flash a middle finger at all those Sp.Def abusing Tyranitars

@ Vreedrock: do you really expect someone with 5 posts to have an indepth understanding of usage stats? Until resently I didn't know that much about usage sats, though mostly because I'm never online so all of my information was wayy outdated.
 
pkmn-taicho321 said:
You're forgetting that almost every steel has access to a ground type move, and anything with a ground typing gets STAB on CAP8. lawls I think I got complimented?
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When did Scizor or Magnezone ever get a Ground move? (aside from Hidden Power I suppose...)
I know its a completely irrelevant question.
 
ah, but I said almost. certainly there are some but even if scizor can't do anything it has at least one turn to swords dance. Magnezone may not has anything to counter it but it does resist electric 4x and isn't harmed by poison moves at all giving it plenty of time to set up a sub and sit there whittling away CAP8's HP
 
pkmn-taicho321 said:
Magnezone may not has anything to counter it but it does resist electric 4x and isn't harmed by poison moves at all giving it plenty of time to set up a sub and sit there whittling away CAP8's HP
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In that event, you would obviously switch out to a counter.
We don't want a Pokemon that has NO counters...
 
m190049 said:
In that event, you would obviously switch out to a counter.
We don't want a Pokemon that has NO counters...
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Oh obviously but EoE was asking me what those two pokemon could do to CAP8 should it get it's poison typing, so I was only factor in A and B without any other variables. Even with that being said it would certainly not be the best case scenario if CAP8 was forced to switch out each time it encoutered either of these two pokemon. Letting Magnezone get a Sub or Scizor get a SD, or worse. It the case of scizor what if you decided to switch in a heatran to take care of the litte b**** and your opponent predicted the switch and used Brick Break or Super Power? Switching out generally leaves you at somekind of disadvantage.
 
This is not a thread to discuss what is considered "Neglected" and what isn't.
There have been numerous stupid and off-topic posts in this thread. Discuss abilities. Some things you can do now:
  • Add abilities to any of the lists
  • Discuss if any abilities are currently misplaced
  • Begin discussing whether or not the Pending moves should be moved up or down.
Thank you.
 
m190049 said:
But... Both of them use the abilities sometimes.
They do have the status and movepool to put it to use... Probably not as well as they can use the other ability, so they end up being used quite a bit less, but they both still have use.
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So what if they use the abilities sometimes? Hell, for every Tinted Lens Yanmega or Hustlekiss there's probably like, 5 magic guard clefables =/
 
Regigigas already has Slow Start covered, it's a pretty serious drawback, it's not very fun, and only makes sense on an offensive Pokemon anyway. I guess wait and see if our Pokemon turns out to be offensive or defensive, then act accordingly.

Forecast is not feasible. It would only really work as an Evo to Castform, (don't think I haven't thought of it yet). As for Snow Warning, taking Abomasnow and giving different typing and stats wouldn't really expand the metagame at all. It should definitely be moved to unallowed, because it doesn't make sense to put Snow Warning on a non-Ice type. (This isn't because of flavor reasons, but simply because it wouldn't want to damage itself.)
 
Slow Start and Snow Warning have been designated to Unallowed. There needs to be some discussion on the competitive capability of Stall, Scrappy and Forecast.
 
The way the typing polls are going, Scrappy is near pointless. Unallowed.

Forecast I believe was mentioned completely for extra sprites (which I shot down). As it looks, nobody is going to want CAP8's typing decided by weather. I think it should be unallowed.

I don't see a reason for Stall but maybe somebody else can come up with some valid reasoning for wanting it.

(Note that I'm not saying they should be unallowed because they're breaking any rule, it's just to reduce clutter)
 
Veedrock said:
The way the typing polls are going, Scrappy is near pointless. Unallowed.
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Ok, besides your excuse of "the way the typing polls are going" why is scrappy unallowed? We can still give Normal- and Fighting-type moves to the pokemon, so it's not completely useless. Hell! We can even give them Rapid Spin if we REALLY want to. So remind me against why it's unallowed, "dazzle me"
 
I see no reason why should bargain on Scrappy. Rapid Spin is the only reason, but I also don't see it very fitting (preemptive build predictions). I see no reason to hit Ghosts with Normal or Fighting moves over STAB. I'm not saying it's not neglected or a bad ability, just that it can be removed because A) there's really no reason to back it and B) to reduce the clutter of the allowed list.

Can a dual type Pokemon even use Forecast?
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Why wouldn't it? The pokemon's ability matches the weather and weathers don't have 2 typings, so say it's under sun it becomes Fire type. Not Fire/???, just fire.
 
It really doesn't make sense for a Pokemon that isn't Normal or Fighting Type to get Scrappy. They can surely use the ability, but a Normal or Fighting type would get it because otherwise they couldn't use their STAB. That's a notable reason to give it Scrappy.

Of course it still has worth on a non-Fighting or Normal type, but there's really no reason to go out of the way to give it the ability to let it do so. It's just a random boost that really has notable reason to be used... It could much rather use a better ability.

In other words... There's no reason to ban the ability, but there's no reason to use it either.
 
Veedrock said:
I see no reason why should bargain on Scrappy. Rapid Spin is the only reason, but I also don't see it very fitting (preemptive build predictions). I see no reason to hit Ghosts with Normal or Fighting moves over STAB. I'm not saying it's not neglected or a bad ability, just that it can be removed because A) there's really no reason to back it and B) to reduce the clutter of the allowed list.
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The list isn't cluttered, we're adding in every "neglected ability" that isn't broken. So far Scrappy isn't broken. It doesn't matter if it's getting chosen or not, it is still an option. So "A) there's really no reason to back it" I can say with 100% firmness "There is no reason to NOT back it"
 
Veedrock said:
Why wouldn't it? The pokemon's ability matches the weather and weathers don't have 2 typings, so say it's under sun it becomes Fire type. Not Fire/???, just fire.
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So it goes from Electric & Bug/Water/Dragon/Whatever to just fire like that?
I don't really see much worth on that.


Forecast is really more gimicky an ability anyway. Moreso just Game Freak making an ability because it's creative.
Pretty much, mostly for flavor. I think it should be unallowed. It really has no use being there.
 
And what good can come out of Scrappy? CAP8 will have no reason to hit ghosts with Normal or Fighting moves (yes Rapid Spin is an option but again it's not a stable argument). I see absolutely no use for Scrappy on CAP8.

EDIT: I see no reason to carry this out. You have your view and I have mine, and arguments from both sides have been presented. cyberzero can decide from here.
 
Veedrock said:
Slow Start isn't broken yet it's unallowed currently.
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The concept of this CAP is to find a good, underused ability. Slow Start doesn't really fit that description. It doens't really add much to the Pokemon.


Slow Start is just another rather gimmicky ability Game Freak thought up because they thought it would be interesting, pretty much.
 
Veedrock said:
And what good can come out of Scrappy? CAP8 will have no reason to hit ghosts with Normal or Fighting moves (yes Rapid Spin is an option but again it's not a stable argument). I see absolutely no use for Scrappy on CAP8.
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How is Rapid Spin not stable? It doesn't matter whether you "think" it has a use or not. It may not get voted on, big deal, but that doesn't mean it should be an option as it can be helpful depending on the movepool we decide to give our pokemon. Slow Start is unallowed as it isn't helpful in the slightest. Quit talking in circles.
 
We are looking for competitive uses for these abilities. Slow Start is a hindrance competitively, and to be honest, even if it is interesting, it is still a burden, as shown by Regigigas.

It's not true that no good can come out of Forecast. Rain Dance and Sunny Day teams are not completely horrible. The only downside I can see to a weather-based CAP is that it has nothing good come out of Sandstorm. If it got a defensive boost from it and worked in that weather as it does in the others, it would be just as competitively viable. The question is can it survive even in this sand-filled metagame? Pyroak can benefit from Sun, Arghonaut from rain and Syclant from Ice, so it's not like the CAPs can't have any synergy with Forecast on a Pokemon.

Scrappy needs the most discussion, in my opinion. Veedrock, Scrappy IS a viable ability and it can seriously do some damage in CAP. Revenankh and Kitsunoh, along with our fellow OU ghosts in Rotom-A, Gengar and Dusknoir, thrive in CAP. Kitsunoh and Gengar are fast, while Rotom is very versatile, so getting in a Body Slam para can be crucial. Dusky and Revvy don't mind paralysis much, but even then, denying what would otherwise be a free switch in always helps to chip away at bulkier Pokemon.
 
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