Linoone is a Lead?

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Bloofyre

Well... This team is based of the threats that I've seen come in against me... The only real problem I've seen to have is teams that have more than one exploder. I made this one day after realizing that an NU lead would really throw a person off... So... here we go.


At a glance
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The Lead

linoone.png


Linoone @ Salac Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 12 HP/252 Atk/240 Spd/4 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Belly Drum
- Extemespeed
- Seed Bomb
- Shadow Claw

Basically, Linoone is a beast. Belly Drum down to Salac Berry, speed boost on top of the speed that already nearly outspeeds enough of the typical leads to Belly Drum first... The only problems that this little bugger sees is Trick (before he eats his Salac Berry) and Explosion. The best part, once this little guy gets rolling with his sexy one turn set up, he goes on a killing rampage, usually taking out atleast 3 pokemon, and I've had battles where I left unscaved and only my beastly Linoone was out there to do the deed.

The Resistor

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Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spd/4 Def
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- HP Fire

Nothing new here... Another Standard Gengar that works wonders... Although I would like some input on weather I should keep the Life Orb or switch to Expert Belt, as this guy receives enough damage as it is.

Non-Choice/Non-Spinner Starmie

starmie.png


Starmie @ Expert Belt
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SpA
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Recover

This Starmie set was from an IRL friend who said that Starmie could be used as a sweeper. One issue is the Thunderbolt Gengar/Grass Knot Swampert switch in... Cant seem to figure those out, which usually costs me the match.

Suicide Magnezone

magnezone.png


Magnezone @ Life Orb
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 88 HP/88 Atk/84 Spd/248 SpA
Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
- Thunderbolt
- HP Water
- Flash Cannon
- Explosion

Basically takes out anything that Starmie has issues with... HP Water for the typical Infernape switch in, although I wouldnt attack first, so with this it's usually is a prediction move...

Last Resort

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Salamence @ Expert Belt
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 138 HP/252 Atk/120 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

Although it is rare for me to whip this guy out... He is there, and he does his job well... This Smogon set Mence is actually really good, all I did was take off the CB and add an Expert Belt for some pizazz. If you dont see the purpose of this guy, its sad, because this guy, like Linoone, can take out entire teams with this gorgeous moveset.

Tricksploder

bronzong.png


Bronzong @ Macho Brace
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/84 Atk/80 Def/92 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spd)
- Trick
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Explosion

One thing I hate, is when people say this should be my lead... He has 0 Spd IVs... He is built for suicide, his purpose is to prevent threats, or on a HailStall team... Suicide on Walrein so either Starmie or Salamence can go in for either Grass Knot or Fire Blast. The best part? Before he Explodes, he sets up rocks for late game switch ins, and Trick steals threats leftovers for a Macho Brace which reduces their speed by half. Pwnage.
​

Although I will constantly update this thread... I have yet to make a threat list, so please rate away while the Threat List is in creation.
 
Welcome to Smogon.

The Linoone lead sounds great in theory, but the problem is that every single lead has some sort of attack, and those attacks would most likely do upwards of 50% to Linoone. Couple that with Belly Drum's 50% health drop and your Linoone is dead, having done absolutely nothing. Even something like a suicide SR Azelf or a TrickScarf Jirachi would be better because at least it could get its job done.

As for Bronzong, any particular reason why you have Heatproof? Levitate gives it a ground immunity and a fire weakness, whereas Heatproof gives it a fire neutrality and a ground weakness. Unless there is a specific reason for Heatproof, it's just better to run Levitate. If there is a reason for Heatproof, you should swap Macho Brace for Iron Ball. Not only does it reduce the opponent's speed by half, but if it gets tricked onto Zapdos, Salamence, Gyarados, Gengar or any other pokemon normally immune to ground-type moves, this ground-type immunity is removed.
 
Ohh... I did say heatproof huh... sorry I was on the phone with a friend when I was writing this. He was telling me about his idea for a Heatproof Zong... Its still in the works.

Ill edit that right now.

As for the Linoone, right now it seems to have taken out atleast the opposing lead as no one else has a 1 turn set up, unless you have a rare CB scizor lead, which I have NEVER seen.
 
Using Linoone was very clever, no one will expect it, but Magnezone is a pretty bad exploder (In my opinion) due to his low attack. Regirock isn't too bad with his 100 base attack paired with 200 base defense, but if you want to use Magnezone and use explosion when he is basicly gonna get KO'd, then that's a good strategy. Salamence should be uber due to its massave attacking stats, paired with base 100 speed and (Possibly) a bigger movepool than Garchomp, plus an annoying ability, there's no reason it shouldn't be uber. But since it isn't uber just abuse it as it is. Gengar is a good choice for Dynamic Punch Machamps. Overall a good team as it is. That's how I see it...
 
Yeah... Regirock has a lame Movepool IMO... Which is why I went with Magnezone, as it can still wear opponents down... and usually take out one before exploding on another...

mind telling me which Regirock you had in mind?
 
Bloofyre said:
As for the Linoone, right now it seems to have taken out atleast the opposing lead as no one else has a 1 turn set up, unless you have a rare CB scizor lead, which I have NEVER seen.
Click to expand...

Lead Metagross' Meteor Mash vs your Linoone: 91.00% - 107.33%
Lead Azelf's Psychic vs your Linoone: 70.33% - 83.33%
Lead Swampert's Earthquake vs your Linoone: 58.33% - 69.00%

If your opponent decides to attack on turn 1 and you decide to Belly Drum, your Linoone is dead.
 
Bloofyre said:
Yeah... Regirock has a lame Movepool IMO... Which is why I went with Magnezone, as it can still wear opponents down... and usually take out one before exploding on another...

mind telling me which Regirock you had in mind?
Click to expand...

Eh, I dunno. But here's something I came up with for its moveset:

~ Toxic / Explosion
~ Stealth Rock / Explosion
~ Stone Edge / Explosion
~ Hammer Arm / Earthquake / Elemantal Punches

Just get rid of one of the first 3 moves and put in Explosion. I'd probably chose from Stealth Rock or Stone Edge. You can also swap out any other move for protect if you're gonna use Toxic. Either way he's not too bad. Also Steelix can learn Explosion, and his movepool isn't too bad.
 
frogoholic101 said:
Both are uu, and magnezone traps steels and can actually cause some damage.
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Oh yeah forgot about Magnet Pull... *Facepalms* But Linoone is in NU and he's in this team... Also you could swap out Bronzong's Macho Brace witha lagging tail if you want him to be really slow. (Can you explain to me why?)
 
about the linoone... the purpose is to draw fire from a fighting attack and if that is what I predict, based on the opposing lead... I will switch to the corresponding counter.

about the magnezone... frogoholic basically explained it.

looking at smogon for a regirock set... this seems like the only viable option in OU play.

~ Rock Polish
~ Counter
~ Explosion
~ Stone Edge

its the counter set if you wanna see it fully.
 
Your Linoone lead just won't work, unfortunately :( Looking at the top 10 leads...

Metagross (54239)walls you even after a Belly Drum, taking a mere 59% maximum from a +6 Shadow Claw, which doesn't matter since it can easily Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch you for the KO whereas you are unable to land a single hit on it, or at least a single noticable hit. You lose this matchup.

Azelf (50102) takes 61% maximum from Shadow Claw, and 52% maximum from Extremespeed, meaning it can either Taunt you, preventing you from Belly Drumming, or Psychic you for the near OHKO. You win here, but lose in a sense because you never got your Belly Drum off.

Swampert (34349) Isn't even OHKOed by Seed Bomb (unboosted of course), and can 2HKO you with Earthquake, meaning you'll be unable to Belly Drum, and can give anything from a Heatran to an Infernape a free switch-in to kill you or set up. Basically, you win because you can 2HKO it, but lose since you never got your Belly Drum off.

Jirachi (33562) Will likely be a Scarfer, so it will Iron Head you for the 2HKO before you can do anything. You lose here...pretty badly to be honest.

Aerodactyl (32060) Essentially Taunts you or Stone Edges you for the near OHKO. You'll always lose here.

Infernape (27164) Fake Outs you and then OHKOs you with Close Combat. You lose terribly here =(

Hippowdon (24625) Isn't even OHKOed by a +6 Seed Bomb, and can KO you once you've Belly Drummed, or just play it smart and Roar you out, forcing you to take 50% for nothing. You lose here, once more.

Ninjask (people still use this? 20799) Sets up on you and can give a Gengar or even a Tyranitar +6 Speed effectively screwing you over. You lose here.

Bronzong (20375) Gyro Balls you for something near an OHKO (due to Salac). You obviously lose.

Tyranitar (16655) Beats you almost regardless of set. Superpower obviously KOs, Stone Edge deals ridiculous damage, and Roar makes you worthless for the rest of the match. Have fun losing this match up.


So uh, replace the Linoone lead, not necessarily replace Linoone, but you should leading with Bronzong in order to better start matches off. 0 Speed is good for Gyro Balling shit too.
 
Bloofyre said:
about the linoone... the purpose is to draw fire from a fighting attack and if that is what I predict, based on the opposing lead... I will switch to the corresponding counter.

about the magnezone... frogoholic basically explained it.

looking at smogon for a regirock set... this seems like the only viable option in OU play.

~ Rock Polish
~ Counter
~ Explosion
~ Stone Edge

its the counter set if you wanna see it fully.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just saw the first set. Hmmm.... now you guys are making me want to add one to my team...
 
umm... about my lead... it appears that no one understands the usage of the switch button...

and I've faced most of those leads and it takes them time to set up and by that time I will have over 1k attack... cause of my belly drum, then extremespeed rapes almost all of those...

to name a few:
Jirachi
Azelf
Aerodactyl
Ninjask
Infernape
Bronzong

and I have yet to face the others... but the above have all been OHKOd by Linoone...
 
Bloofyre said:
umm... about my lead... it appears that no one understands the usage of the switch button...
Click to expand...

You can do that, but if you're in a double battle, you can have a Pokémon that knows Follow Me, but it'll take up a team slot... Basicly use Follow Me, while Linoone Belly Drums and then just attack. But it's a pretty bad strategy...
 
Bloofyre said:
umm... about my lead... it appears that no one understands the usage of the switch button...

No need to get defensive, we all know perfectly well that you can switch. The thing is, a good lead shouldn't have to switch out of nearly every single common lead in OU. You literally do nothing to half of them, and the other half you beat you end up not getting a Salac boost. Essentially, you're giving a good portion of them a chance to do whatever they please.

and I've faced most of those leads and it takes them time to set up and by that time I will have over 1k attack... cause of my belly drum, then extremespeed rapes almost all of those...

to name a few:
Jirachi
Azelf
Aerodactyl
Ninjask
Infernape
Bronzong

and I have yet to face the others... but the above have all been OHKOd by Linoone...

You say Extremespeed has OHKOed Bronzong, Jirachi, and Aerodactyl? Not I know you're just lying, since even Aerodactyl has a chance to survive.
Click to expand...

Look, no one is trying to get you to remove Linoone, it's just that a sweeper like Linoone can't sweep early on. You've got support for it (namely Zone), and you've got a PERFECTLY good lead in Bronzong. I honestly can't force you to take Linoone out of the lead spot, but it'd work best for your team.
 
Bloofyre said:
I dont prefer doubles... It just doesnt seem to stay true to the original 151.
just singles...
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Alright then, but yeah the strategy you mentioned is good too. It's just that everyone seems to underestimate the lower tiers. I'm pretty much one of the few people that gave Nidoqueen a chance in every tier. Not just UU. (Same for Regice and he's won me many battles)
 
Wishmaker, I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah Linoone is NOT a good lead at all. If you're playing anybody that's even halfway decent, you're not going to be killing anything. I'd put a lead Metagross or Swampert isntead.

The rest of your team is pretty standard and I don't see any huge weaknesses.
 
Valantaro said:
Look, no one is trying to get you to remove Linoone, it's just that a sweeper like Linoone can't sweep early on. You've got support for it (namely Zone), and you've got a PERFECTLY good lead in Bronzong. I honestly can't force you to take Linoone out of the lead spot, but it'd work best for your team.
Click to expand...

About Extremespeed, I hope you know that Linoone gets STAB from Extremespeed not to mention its attack is over 1k with Belly Drum, and the Speed boost from the Salac makes it even more hazardous...

Im not saying I shouldnt switch, cause to be honest, I am interchanging zong and Linoone right now, once zong explodes, Linoone comes in with no danger (so to speak) and can set up usually with ease... I am testing it right now and will give you the results shortly.
 
Metagross, the most common lead destroys your Linoone in any and all situations. Anti-leads that are meant to prevent other leads from setting-up will destroy you as well. Trick, a very common move a lead Jirachi, cripples you completely. And of course you lose to pretty much anybody who decides to attack you outright instead of set up rocks first turn.
 
Bloofyre said:
About Extremespeed, I hope you know that Linoone gets STAB from Extremespeed not to mention its attack is over 1k with Belly Drum, and the Speed boost from the Salac makes it even more hazardous...

Im not saying I shouldnt switch, cause to be honest, I am interchanging zong and Linoone right now, once zong explodes, Linoone comes in with no danger (so to speak) and can set up usually with ease... I am testing it right now and will give you the results shortly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining something I already know >__> But even if Linoone's attack was over 9000 (terrible pun, sorry), it will still be crushed by nearly every lead. Linoone is deadly in late-game, but anything other than usually leaves vulnerable to too many things.
 
Bloofyre said:
umm... about my lead... it appears that no one understands the usage of the switch button...
Click to expand...

It seems you don't understand the purpose of a lead. The purpose of a lead is to give you momentum from the get-go. If you have to switch on turn 1, your opponent gets momentum and you don't.
 
If Linoone does manage to get a Belly Drum up, Extremespeed is foiled by either Focus Sash users or Steel-Type pokemon.

Linoone as a lead sucks, change it.
 
I need to ask this, all Linoone discussion aside:

Why do you REALLY use HP Water on Magnezone? You say it's for Infernape switch-ins, but Thunderbolt would still hit it harder.
 
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