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np: UU - Here It Goes Again

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the fighting neutral on honch is definitely what makes the difference imo. honestly when i used honchkrow i tended to go for the 25% crit night slash over drill peck most of the time anyway
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Alright, this is a huge misconception and I'm going to clear this up right now and for future reference:

Night Slash from Super Luck Honchkrow or Absol has 33.3% critical hit rate, not 25%.

Super Luck doubles the number of critical hit stages that a move has, and Absol's/Honchkrows Night Slash has 2 crit stages (1 crit stage higher than normal), meaning that Super Luck thus doubles it to 4 critical hit stages, which translates out to a 1/3 chance of getting a crit.

Similarly, if Absol is holding a Scope Lens, Night Slash has a 50% critical hit rate (and the other moves all have 25%).
 
That topic is basically completely pointless. 35 base HP goes a LONG way to making something bulkier, and those "defense tiers" honestly mean nothing.
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Ok, so now I know the guy who did that topic was an idiot, and that I shouldn't trust the pinned D/P Information / Resources thread. Thanks for the heads up.

Not to mention that Honchkrow is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and with the way UU is shaping up, Spikes are infinitely better AND far more common than SR.
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Spikes and T-spikes, far more common than even the infamous Stealth Rock? I'm not sure about that. Can't find anything showing the most commonly used moves in May, so I'll just look at it like this:

Spikes appears on exactly 4 Pokemon with 1% or more usage during May:

Cloyster (4.4% usage, Spikes used on 83.1% of them; so the usage of Cloyster that carried Spikes was 3.6564%)
Omastar (6.3% usage, Spikes used on 46.4% of them; 2.9232% overall usage of Omastar carrying Spikes)
Qwilfish (2.9% usage, Spikes used on 10.2% of them, 0.2958% overall usage)
Roserade (14.5% overall usage, Spikes used on 44.2% of them, 6.409% overall usage)

Adding those percentages together, you get 13.2844% total usage of Spikes across all UU Pokemon used in May. Add an insignificant amount for other really random crap like Pineco, which was used 27 times and carried Spikes 29.6% of the time, if you want.

Toxic Spikes, used on :
Cloyster (4.4% usage, 34.8% w/ T-spikes, 1.5312% overall usage)
Drapion (5.9% usage, 33.2% w/ T-spikes, 1.9588% overall usage)
Nidoking (3.3% usage, 7.5% w/ T-spikes, 0.2475% overall usage)
Nidoqueen (4.0% usage, 57.6% w/ T-spikes, 2.304% overall usage)
Omastar (6.3% usage, 7% w/ T-spikes, 0.441% overall usage)
Roserade (14.5% usage, 28.4% w/ T-spikes, 4.118% overall usage)
Venomoth (exactly 1% usage, 25% w/ T-spikes, 0.25% overall usage)

Adding up all the percents for T-spikes, we get 10.8505% total usage of T-spikes across all UU Pokemon in May. Adding this to the total usage for Spikes, we get 24.1349% combined total usage for the two moves.

Now, we look at how often Stealth Rock appears, once again listing Pokemon that use Stealth Rock with 1% or more usage (as you might expect, this list is way bigger than the previous two, so feel free to skip it and read the total after it):

Aggron (1.1% usage, 34.5% with SR, 0.3795% overall)
Armaldo (1.5% usage, 45.3% with SR, 0.6795% overall)
Bastiodon (1.0% usage, 77.9% with SR, 0.779% overall)
Bibarel (1.5% usage, 6.6% with SR, 0.099% overall)
Camerupt (1.7% usage, 48.7% with SR, 0.8279% overall)
Chansey (8.4% usage, 33.9% with SR, 2.8476% overall)
Claydol (10.3% usage, 72.6% with SR, 7.4778% overall)
Cradily (1.8% usage, 18.5% with SR, 0.333% overall)
Hippototas (2.7% usage, 95.5% with SR, 2.5785% overall)
Kabutops (6.8% usage, 11.5% with SR, 0.782% overall)
Kecleon (1.1% usage, 71.8% with SR, 0.7898% overall)
Marowak (2.2% usage, 6.5% with SR, 0.143% overall)
Mesprit (3.3% usage, 43.6% with SR, 1.4388% overall)
Miltank (5.6% usage, 41.6% with SR, 2.3296% overall)
Nidoking (3.3% usage, 14.3% with SR, 0.4719% overall)
Nidoqueen (4.0% usage, 63.0% with SR, 2.52% overall)
Omastar (6.3% usage, 23.0% with SR, 1.449% overall)
Pinsir (2.2% usage, 10.6% with SR, 0.2332% overall)
Probopass (1.5% usage, 56.6% with SR, 0.849% overall)
Regirock (9.7% usage, 83.2% with SR, 8.0704% overall)
Registeel (15.8% usage, 74.3% with SR, 11.7394% overall)
Relicanth (2.3% usage, 27.7% with SR, 0.6371% overall)
Rhydon (2.5% usage, 36.7% with SR, 0.9175% overall)
Sandslash (2.1% usage, 53.0% with SR, 1.113% overall)
Shuckle (3.0% usage, 38.5% with SR, 1.155% overall)
Steelix (11.5% usage, 83.5% with SR, 9.6025% overall)
Torkoal (1.2% usage, 34.9% with SR, 0.4188% overall)
Torterra (2.9% usage, 22.4% with SR, 0.6496% overall)
Uxie (9.4% usage, 82.7% with SR, 7.7738% overall)

All of that adds up to 69.0852% total, overall usage of Stealth Rock across the movesets of all significant UU Pokemon, a figure over twice as large as the totals for Spikes and T-spikes combined. So, as far as the most common entry hazard in UU goes, I'm gonna stick with Stealth Rock, and say that if I have to choose between not being SR weak or being Spikes immune, I'm gonna go with the former.
 
So what are people's predictions for the top used poekmon? I'm actually expecting Roserade and Milotic to be 1 and 2 as they're everywhere. Top lead will probably be Ambipom again, and possibly arcanine or roserade.
 
Oh, I missed this:

Also, a note that I (and Jabba, and others that are smart)
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While I agree that Honchkrow's better than Absol, it seems like here that you're implying that WJC3688 isn't smart (correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the way that this came off to me). I'd like to point out that he's been in the top 5 pretty much constantly since this whole testing process started, and while reaching the top of the leaderboard is pretty easy, it does require a certain degree of intelligence, so if this is the implication you intended to convey, I'd beg to differ.

Plus, I thought this was a bit condescending, so I figured I'd point it out.
 
Random Pizzaman said:
So what are people's predictions for the top used poekmon? I'm actually expecting Roserade and Milotic to be 1 and 2 as they're everywhere. Top lead will probably be Ambipom again, and possibly arcanine or roserade.
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To be honest, I haven't seen an Ambipom in a while. Ive mostly seen Roserades, Uxie/Mespirits, Moltres and Regirock. Those are the most leads ive seen.
Others include Steelix, Omastar, Rotom, Registeel, and Hitmontop
 
I've seen quite a bit of ambipom all over the UU ladder. It may be probably the most consistent poke I've ever seen. The one poke I'm starting to see a lot more of is hitmontop. Go figure as to why he didn't become more popular before.
The may statistics will definitely be interesting though.
 
I'm thinking Uxie will actually be the #1 lead, or if not, at least #2 after Ambipom. Trick Scarf, dual screens, rain dance, or just a plain old bulky SR lead, he's absurdly versatile and generally a pain to deal with no matter which version it is. Yanmega is also a fairly popular lead, and also a huge pest in general.

As for most used Pokemon, I'm thinking Mismagius and Roserade. Mismagius was consistently in the top 3 while Shaymin and Crobat were present, and now they're both gone. Roserade, like Uxie, is very versatile and can fit well onto almost any style of team.
 
WJC3688 said:
I'm thinking Uxie will actually be the #1 lead, or if not, at least #2 after Ambipom. Trick Scarf, dual screens, rain dance, or just a plain old bulky SR lead, he's absurdly versatile and generally a pain to deal with no matter which version it is. Yanmega is also a fairly popular lead, and also a huge pest in general.

As for most used Pokemon, I'm thinking Mismagius and Roserade. Mismagius was consistently in the top 3 while Shaymin and Crobat were present, and now they're both gone. Roserade, like Uxie, is very versatile and can fit well onto almost any style of team.
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I agree Uxie is a pain. I generally end up having to get rid if the other 5 pokes before I can ko it. (I run stall)
 
Super Effective said:
Alright, this is a huge misconception and I'm going to clear this up right now and for future reference:

Night Slash from Super Luck Honchkrow or Absol has 33.3% critical hit rate, not 25%.

Super Luck doubles the number of critical hit stages that a move has, and Absol's/Honchkrows Night Slash has 2 crit stages (1 crit stage higher than normal), meaning that Super Luck thus doubles it to 4 critical hit stages, which translates out to a 1/3 chance of getting a crit.
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If you're going to post something in large text and bold at least make it true. Super Luck increases the CH rate one stage.
 
I'm sure that Super Luck Night Slash is 33%.

WJC, your stats were just for usages of SR and Spikes/T-Spikes. I think SDS was saying that Spikes are more effective than SR, not that SR is bad.

Anyway, I hate you heysup for your damn Roserade set that my team is weak to. What are some good counters to it?
 
Erazor said:
I'm sure that Super Luck Night Slash is 33%.

WJC, your stats were just for usages of SR and Spikes/T-Spikes. I think SDS was saying that Spikes are more effective than SR, not that SR is bad.

Anyway, I hate you heysup for your damn Roserade set that my team is weak to. What are some good counters to it?
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Espeon and Moltres are good counters/revengers to it (faster and OHKOs), Articuno/Regice can stop it and fire back with SE attacks. That's really about it for the pure counters I can think of.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
That topic is basically completely pointless. 35 base HP goes a LONG way to making something bulkier, and those "defense tiers" honestly mean nothing. Not to mention that Honchkrow is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and with the way UU is shaping up, Spikes are infinitely better AND far more common than SR.
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I wouldn't try to argue that Absol is better than Honchkrow, but I would like to point out that SR is still absurdly common in UU due to its stupid power (really? 50% health from an entry hazard to Moltres/Scyther/Yanmega? :( ). Registeel/rock, Uxie, and Chansey all are extremely common and one of the three always carries it, whereas Roserade used to be the most common spiker/Tspiker and now rarely carries the move at all (people prefer LO and Scarf sets).
 
Erazor said:
I'm sure that Super Luck Night Slash is 33%.

WJC, your stats were just for usages of SR and Spikes/T-Spikes. I think SDS was saying that Spikes are more effective than SR, not that SR is bad.

Anyway, I hate you heysup for your damn Roserade set that my team is weak to. What are some good counters to it?
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Registeel is the only "counter" I can think of, but there are ways to deal with it.

Chansey + Sleep Absorber works too. Try not to give it a chance to hit something :o

And also, saying Spikes are more common then Stealth Rock is quite ridiculous.

Honchkrow is better because of its dual STAB, being neutral to Fighting, Grass resistance, and EQ immunity.
 
Moltres is a good counter to that Roserade, mainly because it is slow. Moltres can get in on everything barring a Sleep Powder, and OHKO with a LO Fire Blast (though if it uses Sleep Powder, you are in problems).
 
We're not saying that Spikes are more common than SR. We're saying that Spikes are more effective/deadlier than SR.

Tangrowth is really nice in this meta, I've been using him to good effect. However, Roserade and Yanmega crap all over him, so... oh , wait, that's what Registeel's for.

As a side note, what do you people think about this new EV spread for Blaziken - 120 Atk/ 252 SpA/ 136 Spe Rash? Now that Honchkrow's gone, Blaziken doesn't need 242 Speed, so he has enough speed to outrun neutral base 65s, as well as min speed Uxie. Milotic can go to hell unless it's Life Orb Max Speed.
 
Erazor said:
I'm sure that Super Luck Night Slash is 33%.

WJC, your stats were just for usages of SR and Spikes/T-Spikes. I think SDS was saying that Spikes are more effective than SR, not that SR is bad.

Anyway, I hate you heysup for your damn Roserade set that my team is weak to. What are some good counters to it?
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Well, if you'll re-read his statement:

Not to mention that Honchkrow is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and with the way UU is shaping up, Spikes are infinitely better AND far more common than SR.

You'll notice that he claimed that not only are Spikes better than SR, they are far more common. I was addressing the "far more common" part and how it's completely 100% false. I really question whether Spikes are better than SR, certainly 3 layers of Spikes beat one layer of SR, but that takes three turns to set up, while SR is a one turn setup. But again, I wasn't addressing their effectiveness anyway, only their use, which is most definitely far less than that of SR, meaning if that you could either be weak to Spikes or weak to SR, you would want to go with the former.

To counter LO Roserade, use RestTalk Registeel. You'll have to put SR on something else, but meh.
 
Erazor said:
We're not saying that Spikes are more common than SR. We're saying that Spikes are more effective/deadlier than SR.

Tangrowth is really nice in this meta, I've been using him to good effect. However, Roserade and Yanmega crap all over him, so... oh , wait, that's what Registeel's for.

As a side note, what do you people think about this new EV spread for Blaziken - 120 Atk/ 252 SpA/ 136 Spe Rash? Now that Honchkrow's gone, Blaziken doesn't need 242 Speed, so he has enough speed to outrun neutral base 65s, as well as min speed Uxie. Milotic can go to hell unless it's Life Orb Max Speed.
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I listed that spread (it was 124 Atk / 252 SpA / 132 Spe though) in my old analyses, it's the original spread that I used with Mixed Blaziken. I just found, and still find the 240 Attack spread to be more effective.

Anyway before I open that can of worms, I really think Blaziken needs to either be Max, or near max Speed, or be at 16 Speed. If you're going to run speed on Blaziken, you may as well outrun Absol with 216 EVs. Even if you no longer OHKO chansey, it really shouldn't matter if you're using Blaziken as a sweeper and not a wall-breaker (which it honestly can't do without near-max Attack) anyway.
 
Erazor said:
Anyway, I hate you heysup for your damn Roserade set that my team is weak to. What are some good counters to it?
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Muk. Or Drapion. There are other Poisons and Wormadam-S, but they're a bit shit, so those two mainly. Muk because it's bulky, and Drapion because it can Restalk shuffle or be faster and use STAB Pursuit / more powerful attack. Registeel is obvious. As if nobody had to deal with offensive Roserade in the past.

If you mean a pure counter, then special defensive Ariados is the only one, but talk about specialized. ONLY for Baton Pass teams.
 
Bulky Drapions are still 3HKOed by Sludge Bomb iirc, and Muk is vulnerable to Sleep Powder and constant Sludge Bombs. I'd stick with Registeel as a surefire counter.
 
Muk isn't really that scared by Sludge Bomb. 252 HP/0 SpD Adamant Muk takes only 24-29% from Sludge Bomb (Modest, max SpA Life Orb). Something like an offensive RestTalk set could probably counter it well. Adamant max Atk Ice Punch does 95-112% to 4/0 Roserade (I'm not exactly sure what spread is standard for Life Orb Roserade, but it gives you a good idea).
 
Yea, that's true I guess. Registeel, Chansey, and Muk work well as counters, assuming Sleep Clause is in effect already.

That's really why I like this Roserade so much, Sleep Powder + 383 Life Orb Boosted attacks = deadly.
 
Roserade that run HP Ground will get the jump on those Poisons, however. Registeel and Chansey are undoubtedly the most reliable counters.
 
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