I love to Sleep Natural Cure Pokemon because as soon as you kill them or switch-out you don't break Sleep Clause. Teams with Chansey + Alteria are my favorite because I can threaten to sleep force them to switch and hopefully take entry hazard damage.
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np: UU - Here It Goes Again
- Thread starter Caelum
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I love to Sleep Natural Cure Pokemon because as soon as you kill them or switch-out you don't break Sleep Clause. Teams with Chansey + Alteria are my favorite because I can threaten to sleep force them to switch and hopefully take entry hazard damage.
I've seen more roar stall Moltres than toxic recently. I don't see how a shuffling build defeats the purpose of anything?
I'm also saying the best spinner in the tier is probably going to be hanging around so rocks are not going to be there all the time, and your opponent is probably determined to keep the advantage entry-hazard wise (and as such probably will).
I apologize, my comment wasn't meant as an attack but in any discussion about Moltres, "heh sr kills moltres u just gotta use sr *end of discussion*" invariably shows up and perhaps I was a bit oversensitive to it.
So, how do you guys deal with Yanmega?
From what I can see, the only viable responses outside of running stall (i.e. Chansey) are to use Registeel or a Sucker Puncher, and Sucker Punch can easily be beaten by sets carrying Sub or Hypnosis. It's really starting to bug me that I have to put one of those two things in all my teams or risk getting swept.
From what I can see, the only viable responses outside of running stall (i.e. Chansey) are to use Registeel or a Sucker Puncher, and Sucker Punch can easily be beaten by sets carrying Sub or Hypnosis. It's really starting to bug me that I have to put one of those two things in all my teams or risk getting swept.
Scarfers, Moltres can stop him, Steelix with Gyro Ball, Altaria with Aerial Ace, Regice, paralysis support, etc. Yanmega is still a huge pain and a giant threat when used correctly, and even moreso with the lack of Honchkrow/Crobat. Honestly, when the specs set comes in, if you don't have Chansey, something is going to die.
Everything is situational to his set. People that run sub or hypnosis (or both) often do so over HP ground, so steels like Steelix can wall him easily (but risk the sleep). If they do run that sort of thing, Encore Clefable can encore a sub or a hypnosis (preferably after afflicted with a status effect) and take care of him.
This is why I love LO Roserade. It can beat Chansey without breaking Sleep Clause, and always threaten an opponents team with Sleep Powder. If Chansey is your status absorber, then you're definitely going to lose a couple Pokemon to Sleep Powder or Leaf Storm / Sludge Bomb.
Mostly a load of checks - I have 3 priority users on my team. Plus max SpD Clefable, who can survive two Modest Specs Buzzes most of the time at full health (about 17% chance to 2HKO including SpD drop chance) and T-wave back, if need be. Unfortunately something usually ends up dying anyway, due to subs, crits, and SpD drops, but a paralyzed Yanmega can be set up on too.
I use Lapras,since it's bulky enough to take two Specs hits and Ice Beam/Avalanche back(mostly Avalanche with Curse,that way i can heavily invest Evs in sp.def without worrying about being weak phisically while boosting the not so good attack stats)
I haven't seen any Specs variants for a while (not since before the current Suspects were removed), but I've been running a Lum Berry + Rock Slide Regirock for my lead. HP Ground fails to 2HKO Regirock even with a Life Orb, and thanks to Lum Berry Hypnosis doesn't bother me (if it even hits), so I can Rock Slide it for the OHKO/Focus Sash activation. Substitute just pretty much guarantees it dies when they try to Hypnosis me later. If they Hypnosis twice in a row and manage to hit both times, well, it just means my other members can't be put to sleep. It also handles Ambipom pretty well and can even take on Roserade, although it requires a bit of luck to do so. I haven't missed the Lefties recovery at all.
Although it is considered a "hax" item, running razor claw on absol is fun. 50% chance of crit with night slash. Use with speed passed. Hope night slash crits every time, and you may just have a sweep. If you come to a wall, baton pass the boosts away!
Specs Espeon tears shit up.
Swellow is the greatest hit and run poke. Use with spin support.
Registeel is fun if it needs no stelth rock. Ice punch ,thunderwave, iron head, earthquake/explosion.
Saw a munchlax the other day, lol. Tried to wall espeon. munchlax stew for dinner.
Slowbro+Registeel+Umbreon+Cloyster+Spiritomb+Milotic=Stall
Specs Espeon tears shit up.
Swellow is the greatest hit and run poke. Use with spin support.
Registeel is fun if it needs no stelth rock. Ice punch ,thunderwave, iron head, earthquake/explosion.
Saw a munchlax the other day, lol. Tried to wall espeon. munchlax stew for dinner.
Slowbro+Registeel+Umbreon+Cloyster+Spiritomb+Milotic=Stall
Add in Moltres/Roserade/Regirock/Chansey over Umbreon and Hitmontop over Cloyster, and you have every team in the top 10. Stall has become ridiculously broken, it mandates you running Blaziken (maybe LO Roserade with ridiculously awesome prediction) because he's really the only pure wallbreaker left without Honch and Shaymin, and even he can't break through unless you predict right, one wrong prediction and you lose. Honchkrow is really the only thing that can take every member of that team in stride (Regirock can take care of it easily, but if they're running Regirock, they'll have other weaknesses.)
Add to that that on stall teams, Slowbro is always CM and Registeel/Rock/Umbreon are often running Curse without losing any walling potential whatsoever, it creates a huge problem. I've pretty much lost faith in the subject test because I refuse to run stall, and it seems the only way to hit the actual voting rating.
I'm currently 2nd without running stall OR Blaziken OR Roserade.
I don't really agree when you say Blaziken is the only wall breaker left, Nidoking is very underrated and overlooked, I don't really need to say anything about Absol and if you are not running Tangrowth/Meganium you are Torterra weak, I can give you more examples if you want. And in the end, you don't even need a "wall breaker" to beat stall.
Nasty Plot Toxicroak can break stall as well. Really I find stall quite underwhelming but maybe that's because I run Howl Arcanine, Nasty Plot Toxiroak and DD Lapras all on the same team
I run a bulky scarf Roserade on one of my stall teams and it has performed better than I had hoped she would.
Roserade, Slowbro, Hitmontop, Chansey, Dusclops, Altaria
Kind of similar to the way Crobat was a check more than a wall for stall. She has spikes instead of the ground immunity. Has worked really well in getting ko's on things like SD Drapion and NP Toxicroak. I dont have a move to hit Swellow nuetral, but I wanted Hp Ground specifically for Drapion and Toxicroak. I run a Tangrowth on another version and it is amazing, but Slowbro helps provide an additional check to Blaziken. I can use Hitmontop, Altaria, and Dusclops to play around Torterra and have not really had a problem with it breaking either team so far. It has a hard time with Swellow w/o rocks up, and Roserade can cause problems, but again I have been able to play around it so far and most versions have either been spikers or scarfers. Neither of which are as threatening to stall as the LO version.
Also, wanted to repeat this because I've not seen it done and it works VERY well. i kind of have a feeling not many people know about it because its worked so well for me all suspect test. I found out if you foresight a CM missy with Hitmontop as it sets up a sub, switch to Chansey and you can now beat it with S.Toss thanks to the Foresight. Once I found out I didn't need Altaria to beat Missy I stopped losing to it altogether and I actually like seeing it on my opponents team because its a ghost that is drawn out by Hitmontop and easy to beat thanks to Foresight + Chansey or I can use Altaria if rocks arent up and it switches in on Chansey using anything other than toxic.
Roserade, Slowbro, Hitmontop, Chansey, Dusclops, Altaria
Kind of similar to the way Crobat was a check more than a wall for stall. She has spikes instead of the ground immunity. Has worked really well in getting ko's on things like SD Drapion and NP Toxicroak. I dont have a move to hit Swellow nuetral, but I wanted Hp Ground specifically for Drapion and Toxicroak. I run a Tangrowth on another version and it is amazing, but Slowbro helps provide an additional check to Blaziken. I can use Hitmontop, Altaria, and Dusclops to play around Torterra and have not really had a problem with it breaking either team so far. It has a hard time with Swellow w/o rocks up, and Roserade can cause problems, but again I have been able to play around it so far and most versions have either been spikers or scarfers. Neither of which are as threatening to stall as the LO version.
Also, wanted to repeat this because I've not seen it done and it works VERY well. i kind of have a feeling not many people know about it because its worked so well for me all suspect test. I found out if you foresight a CM missy with Hitmontop as it sets up a sub, switch to Chansey and you can now beat it with S.Toss thanks to the Foresight. Once I found out I didn't need Altaria to beat Missy I stopped losing to it altogether and I actually like seeing it on my opponents team because its a ghost that is drawn out by Hitmontop and easy to beat thanks to Foresight + Chansey or I can use Altaria if rocks arent up and it switches in on Chansey using anything other than toxic.
Milotic is the best tank around hands down, especially with haze. Specs Typhlosion really demolishes stuff. Moltres is good as ever, offensively or defensively. Stall teams are not fond of Taunt + SD drapion.
Stall can/is dominating, but there are definitely ways around it. Oh yeah and Foresight top is annoying as ever.
Stall can/is dominating, but there are definitely ways around it. Oh yeah and Foresight top is annoying as ever.
That's supposedly a glitch on shoddy, Foresight is supposed to end if either Pokemon switches out. So it probably won't work that way in Shoddy Battle 2 (if indeed it is a glitch), but I suppose that won't stop people from abusing it while they can...
No, NP Toxicroak can't break stall. It has no safe switch ins other than on a Milotic surf and Ice Beam can nearly 2HKO it and a +2 Sludge Bomb fails to OHKO Milotic. Believe me, I've tried.
Focus Blast. Did you try that? Never mind Milotic, you can't even break through Chansey and Registeel without that.
Toxicroak can also set up on some Roserades, Spiritombs and Hitmontops, as well as Chansey with Toxic over T-Wave. You can't have tried vey hard, because I've found it to be rather easy to set up.
Hp Fighting does the job against Chansey.
Using either of those means losing coverage: He's countered by Uxie and Slowbro without Dark Pulse, He's walled by pretty much any bulky fighting resist without Sludge Bomb, and using HP fighting or Focus Blast (ew accuracy) over Vacuum Wave means he loses priority, which is very important against the RD teams he's supposed to counter.
Add to that, without LO, none of this is possible, and if any one of those gets 2 hits in on him, the LO recoil will kill him after a max of 1 kill.
Keep in mind Tinted Lens removes the resist, and Steelix has pretty poor special defense, so that's not really surprising at all.
I believe it works like that since GSC, no? The Ghost-type must switch-out to regain its immunities to Normal and Fight.
Apart from Chansey (which I never run on any of my teams), the best counter to Yanmega is Mantine. The only way Yanmega can break through Mantine is with HP Electric, which hardly any variants run - HP Ground is the primary choice. Mantine should be used more; not only is it a full-stop to Yanmega, but is a special wall that actually has decent offensive power, unlike Chansey. It's also a very useful utility, as it can learn Haze to stop overeager stat-uppers.
Stall is definitely broken, but it doesn't mean it's impossible to get around. Bulky Drapion is awesome against stall, it can Taunt against walls and SD up to pound most stall teams. Another Pokemon I think should see more use is Sceptile; Scarf/Specs Leaf Storm is very threatening (along with Focus Blast and Dragon Pulse to back it up), and while SubSeed is beginning to be a virtually forgotten strategy (from what Sceptiles I've seen) it can still take people by surprise.
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