Suicidal Offense[OU RMT]

[mc2094]

I've been using this team for quite some time now. It does really well and has gotten me quite a few wins. It plays like any suicidal offensive team.
Send in a sweeper and set up. Then just weaken whatever switches in and sacrifice said sweeper, then repeat. I referred to Stathakis' Greek RMT for the team building guidlines and I found them to be quite helpful.

Anyways on to the team:

Infernape@Focus Sash
Naive
4 Atk/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
-Stealth rock
-Encore
-Fire Blast
-Close Combat

Lead Infernape is a very good way to start the battle off. Due to his speed, he will almost always get up Stealth Rock, which helps the team quite a bit. The EVs let him deal decent damage while outrunning every common lead bar Azelf and Aerodactyl. Fire Blast and Close Combat dish out a very high amount of damage thanks to STAB. Encore is the real move that makes him so useful. He can use it to trap slower leads like Hippowdon, Swampert, and Metagross on stealth rock which forces them to switch out. He can also Encore the standard Lead Infernape since he outruns him and can Encore the Fake Out. It also lets me set up my sweepers if my opponents decides to use a Water or Ground move on Infernape. Usually, I just let him set up rocks, dish out damage and then die, letting me bring in my first sweeper. He attains pretty good synergy with Gyarados in a sence, as he can often Encore SE hits which Gyarados usually resists.

Gyarados@Life Orb
Jolly
252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Bounce
-Stone edge

Gyarados is an excellent way to start tearing my opponents team early. The EVs let hit 430 Speed after a Dragon Dance, letting me outrun Jolteon and even Scarf Heatran which is pretty useful and dealing a OHKO to both. The move set is fairly simple. Waterfall lets me hit shit hard thanks to STAB. Stone Edge gives pretty good coverage, letting me hit Zapdos, Salamence, and enemy Gyarados. Bounce is also a very important move. It lets me scare off Celebi, and hit several bulky waters such as Starmie and has a chance to OHKO and dents Latias as well. It also has that nice paralysis rate which has been helpful in some cases. I prefer Life Orb for a few reasons. First, I don't have an Adamant nature so the extra power is really useful. The other reason is that Gyarados usually doesn't stay in play very long and I would much rather hit something hard than get some extra recovery in that little amount of time. Usually, this guy comes in after Infernape, sets up, and weakens whatever is supposed to counter him(if not kill in the case of Jolteon.) He usually helps weaken some bulky water which makes it easier for the rest of my team to sweep.

Heatran@Shuca Berry
Naive
4 atk/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Explosion
-HP Elec/Dragon Pulse

Heatran is one of the most important members on the team. His typing lets him resist Bullet Punch, which is often used to pick off my weakened sweepers, so he uses the oppurtunity to get a safe switch. I usually run HP Elec, as it lets me OHKO Gyarados, who is the most common pokemon used to counter Heatran. With Shuca Berry, Heatran passes off as a Scarf Heatran, which lets me get the jump on Blissey, Gyarados, Salamence, and several other "counters." Dragon Pulse isn't usually used less though it has its uses, hitting Dragonite,Salamence and Flygon pretty hard. Usually, once he's gotten a surprise KO, I just blow up and let another sweeper switch in without having to take damage. His speed is a bit of a let down but he is usually able to outrun common counters so it isn't as big of a deal.

Latias@Life Orb
Timid
4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
-Calm Mind
-Dragon Pulse
-Surf
-Recover

Latias is the glue of the team. It helps keep Infernape and other fast sweepers in check. I usually have an easy time using Calm Mind with her, as such I am able to smack whatever switches in pretty hard. I usually send her in after Heatran has done his job, meaning Blissey took the hit from Explosion. Dragon Pulse and Surf have pretty good coverage. Latias' most common switch in is Scizor in my experience, but I usually don't mind as I get to take off over half of its health with a +1 Surf, then he will either get locked in Pursuit which lets one of my sweepers set up, or use U-turn, giving me the adavantage. Recover isn't used much though helps a lot when it is. EVs are pretty straight forward. Max in Special Attack to let Dragon Pulse and Surf do as much damage as possible while max Speed is ran to let it outrun near everything that doesn't have a scarf. I have considered using a more offensive set with something like Draco Meteor-T-bolt-Surf-Recover but I feel that set will make it easier for stuff to set up on me due to Draco Meteor's Special Attack drop.

Salamence@Life Orb
Naive
232 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 24 SAtk
-Dragon dance
-EQuake
-Outrage
-Fire Blast

Salamence is a monster late game. After the first Dragon Dance assault, most of his counters such as Swampert are usually weakened if not dead letting him have an easy time with my opponents team. The moves allow for perfect coverage. Outrage gets STAB and dents pretty much everything that doesn't resist it. Fire Blast and EQuake compliment it well, hitting Steel types that resist Outrage. I went with a positive speed nature to ensure that scarfers can't revenge kill me, such as Jirachi and Flygon. The extra power although useful, usually isn't needed as much as the speed. It also lets me tie with other max speed base 100 pokemon at worst if I haven't used Dragon Dance quite yet. Once I send him in, it's usually close to the end of the battle. Intimidate is pretty useful also, as it can be used as a last ditch attempt to stop a random physical sweeper late game. The EVs are standard and allow for the best results. Max Speed is a given while 24 in SAtk lets me get a useful 2HKO against Bronzong. The rest is dumped into Attack for maximum damage.

Jolteon@Life Orb
Timid
252 SAtk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
-T-bolt
-Shadowball
-HP Grass
-Signal Beam

Jolteon is usually the late game cleaner. Once everything is said and done, he just comes in and finishes off any weakened pokemon with Thunderbolt. I usually only send him out late game, as there are too many danagerous mons that can use him as set up, such as DD Tyritar. The moves are simple, T-bolt does loads of damage and gets STAB. Shadow Ball helps with coverage and lets me hit Ghosts such as Gengar and Dusknoir. HP Grass lets me hit Grounds who are immune to T-Bolt such as Swampert and Signal Beam is mainly filler though it deals extra damage to Celebi and hits Umbreon and Tyranitar for SE damage despite how little it is. Life Orb is the preferred item as I don't want to let anything get the chance to set up. EVs are also simple, yet effective.

Well that's the team. Almost everything here is pretty fast which is pretty useful and can deal their own share of damage. As long as I don't slip up early, I can usually win. Any suggestions are appreciated.​

 

[mc2094]

Threat List

Offensive Threat List:

Aerodactyl :Lead Aerodactyl usually use Stealth Rock on turn one in fear of a Close Combat so I usually use Encore letting me get a free turn to use Stealth Rock. From there, he can't switch in safely and is usualy easy to stop.
---
Alakazam : Too frail to take hits really. Jolteon can outrun him and OHKO if need be.
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Azelf : Most are leads and get locked in Stealth Rock. I don't like the fact it can Explde but it usually doesn't get the chance to.
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Breloom : Everything on my team can 2HKO at worst and outrun Breloom.
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Dragonite : He's way too slow to pose a threat. Despite being bulky, he takes a 2HKO or OHKO from every member bar Infernape.
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Electivire : Jolteon is the only pokemon that is expected to use an Electric type move and he usually comes in late game. Too slow without the boost to be a problem.
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Empoleon : Sub Petaya boost Empoleon can only set up on Gyarados who is usually dead very early. Everything else can deal a OHKO bar Latias who can set up on it with Calm Mind and recover off any damage.
---
Flygon : Often bait and killed by Heatran. Most are Choiced meaning they often let something like Salamence set up.
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Gengar : Jolteon can outrun him and OHKO. Mence and Gyara outrun after a Dragon Dance. Latias can speed tie if need be. He can be annoying but fails to do much.
---
Gyarados : It doesn't get to set up safely against me. Without any boosts, it is very easy to kill. Often baited by Heatran.
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Heatran : My own Heatran gets the jump on him with Shuca Berry. Gyarados and Latias counter him pretty well. He also takes a chunk from Jolteons Thunderbolt.
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Heracross : Most are Choiced letting me set something up. Never really had problems with him due to how frail he is.
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Infernape : Latias is the perfect counter. Gyarados can take him on to anextent and Jolteon can KO with T-bolt.
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Jirachi : Sub Calm Mind can't really set up against me. Scarf sets means more easy set up. Heatran is a pretty good counter.
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Jolteon : Almost always gets killed by Gyarados early due to the extra speed. Latias does well against him and my own Jolteon can switch in to stuff like Specs Thunderbolt.
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Kingdra : Can't really set up anywhere. Jolteon can smack it hard with Thunderbolt. It often tries to use Dragon Dance against Heatran only to take a hit from Dragon Pulse.
---
Latias : Annoying to say the least. I usually just weaken it up with everyone. Luckily, Heatran can bait and kill with Explosion and Gyarados gets the jump on it with Stone Edge. Jolteon takes out a decent chunk of its health.
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Lucario : Can't set up anywhere. Every member can OHKO bar Latias and Jolteon. If he tries to SD then he is left with barley any health. I always have Gyarados and Salamence with Intimidate if need be.
---
Machamp : Another annoying pokemon. I usually just smack him hard with whatever is out and finish him off with someone else.
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Magnezone: He sin't trap killing anyone. Latias is a pretty nice switch against scarf sets. I just try not to let him get the oppurtunity to explode.
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Mamoswine : He has trouble switching in, though can be quite a threat. Usually have to sack something to put him in range for Jolteon's Shadow Ball.
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Metagross : Everyone can 2HKO him at worst with proper set up. Heatran is a nice way to stop him also.
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Salamence : He can't use Dragon Dance safley. Often bait and killed by Heatran. latias and Jolteon outspeed him so that's helpful.
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Scizor : Heatran and Gyarados do a good job. He usually trap kills Latias who takes out over half of his health. Jolteon resists Bullet Punch and can smack him with T-bolt.
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Starmie : Gyarados is often able to weaken/kill it early. Jolteon outruns him and smacks it with SE damage. It doesn't get the chance to safely Rapid Spin which is cool.
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Tyranitar : Too slow and can't really take that much damage. He counters Heatran, Latias, and Jolteon meaning he will be too weak to do so after he tries to stop one of them.
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Weavile : Too frail to safely switch in. Jolteon outrun him. Often tries to trap kill Latias meaning easy set up. Heatran does a decent job at countering it. Can't use Swords Dance safely so that's always helpful.

Defensive Threat List:

Blissey : It can't really take the assault caused by Salamence and Gyarados. usually just dies early to Heatran.
---
Bronzong : Everyone gets to deal a OHKO or 2HKO to him with the proper set up though Specially Defensive ones can take two hits from Jolteon but that isn't of concern.
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Celebi : Everyone bar Latias can OHKO Celebi who scores a 2HKO and walls Celebi either way.
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Cresselia : It usually tries to stop Gyarados and looses over half of its health thus leaving it weak enough for everything else to KO including Salamence who can then start sweeping with Outrage.
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Forretress : Jolteon and Heatran are the only pokemon that take damage from spikes bar Infernape who is always dead early. Because of this he is much less threatening. Anyhow, Salamence, Latias, and Heatran all do well against him.
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Gyarados : RestTalk Gyarados can't do much. Heatran can usually bait and kill him early. I find this to be much easier than its offensive version for some reason, probably because it doesn't pose an immediate threat.
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Gliscor : Might switch in against Heatran on an expected Earth Power and get hit by Explosion. Gyarados hits him hard with Waterfall and Salamence can usually weaken him with Outrage putting him in Jolt's KO range.
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Hippowdon : Most usually carry only EQuake meaning Latias, Gyarados, and Salamence can just smack him and let whatever switches in with Roar finish him off. Jolteon deals serious damage with HP Grass.
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Rotom-A : Scarf sets can be a bit of a problem but I can usually get past them. Non-scarfed sets usually lack recovery, making it easy for me to just wear them out. I can always go to Heatran or Jolteon if I need to.
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Skarmory : He doesn't get any chances to use Roost meaning all I have to do is hit him hard. I can get a OHKO with everyone bar Latias and Gyarados and all Skarmory can do to them is use Whirlwind.
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Snorlax : Usually eats an Explosion from Heatran. Everyone else deals serious damage to him bar Jolteon.
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Suicune: It can try to counter Gyarados and will lose over half of its health in the process leaving it weak enough to Ko with Jolteon or another sweeper such as Salamence.
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Swampert : He is taking damage from pretty much everyone. He usually isn't alive by late game but if he is, Jolteon can hit him with the unexpected HP Grass.
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Tentacruel : He can't really do anything to me. The only Special Attackers I have are Latias, Jolteon, and Heatran. Latias walls him, Jolt deals a OHKO and Heatran hits him with the unexpected Earth Power. Jolteon is the onbly pokemon affected by Toxic Spikes making him even less problamatic.
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Vaporeon : It might switch in on Gyarados and loses a lot of health from Bounce or Stone Edge. Afterwards, I can usually KO it with anything on my team since it won't get the chance to heal itself.
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Zapdos : Often eats a Stone Edge from Gyarados. It can't wall anything so it's dead weight for my opponents.

 

[Solidus]

First off, I would like to see Latias run a three attack LO set (Draco Meteor / Surf / Thunderbolt or Grass Knot). Basically, all you do is drop Dragon Pulse for the much hard hitting Draco Meteor, and you also drop Recover which you said you didn't use much for Thunderbolt which can hit Water types such as Empoleon and Suicune, who won't be bothered much by Surf or Draco Meteor. Successively hitting said Water types with Thunderbolt makes them easier to deal with later, or even better, possibly KO them. Also Grass Knot is an option for dealing with Tyranitar, but Surf should work good enough in this situation at dealing with him.

Really though, on Gyarados there is more bad from using Bounce than good if you don't couple it with Substitute. On that free turn that Bounce gives the opponent, you're susceptible to Protect stalling, stat upping, and the set upping or SR or T-Spikes, too. T-Spikes may not affect this team a whole lot, but from the looks of it SR can leave it's mark after a while. Well you get the idea. I'd like to see you drop Bounce for Earthquake instead. By doing this, you can deal with Steels quicker and easier and you'll also have QuakeEdge at your disposal, which has great coverage. I also don't see why you don't go for Adamant. If you seen the way Stat made his team, you'd have seen that each team member is meant to hit as hard as possible while it's out. So go ahead and try out Adamant.

Choice Specs is an option on Jolt since by the time it comes out, most things that could stop it (Ground type, Blissey) will have already been taken out (or should have been).

 

[Witnessed]

Cool team.

You definately have a problem with the Ground-Ice attacking combination, because if anything carrying it will cause some serious problems for this team. Bronzong is the only Pokemon is OU that resists it, and I think Bronzong can benefit in your lead position.

Bronzong@ Leftovers
Levitate
Sassy nature (+Sp. Defense, -Speed)
252 HP/86 Attack/80 Defense/92 Sp. Defense

Stealth Rock
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Explosion/Hypnosis

Well, this set is standard Bronzong. Stealth Rock doesn't need an explanation, while Gyro Ball is for STAB and Earthquake is your coverage move to obliterate Heatran and Magnezone. The last slot is based purely on preference. Another set you can run is the Dual-Screen, which will really help Salamence and Gyarados set up.

Hope I helped, and Good Luck!

 

[Myzozoa]

I feel like you are missing out on the best sweeper that suicide offense has:Lucario. Right now jolteon seems really pointless, it doesn't really do anything that latias doesn't do, it seems like it was just thrown on to complete gyara-jolt (which is bad for your team because gyara will have to switch out and go through SR again). I suggest replacing jolteon for whatever swords dance lucario set you prefer:
Lucario@LO
Adamant
252 attack/252 speed/4 defense
Swords Dance
Extreme speed
Crunch/Stone edge
Close Combat

 

[mc2094]

First off, I would like to see Latias run a three attack LO set (Draco Meteor / Surf / Thunderbolt or Grass Knot). Basically, all you do is drop Dragon Pulse for the much hard hitting Draco Meteor, and you also drop Recover which you said you didn't use much for Thunderbolt which can hit Water types such as Empoleon and Suicune, who won't be bothered much by Surf or Draco Meteor. Successively hitting said Water types with Thunderbolt makes them easier to deal with later, or even better, possibly KO them. Also Grass Knot is an option for dealing with Tyranitar, but Surf should work good enough in this situation at dealing with him.

Really though, on Gyarados there is more bad from using Bounce than good if you don't couple it with Substitute. On that free turn that Bounce gives the opponent, you're susceptible to Protect stalling, stat upping, and the set upping or SR or T-Spikes, too. T-Spikes may not affect this team a whole lot, but from the looks of it SR can leave it's mark after a while. Well you get the idea. I'd like to see you drop Bounce for Earthquake instead. By doing this, you can deal with Steels quicker and easier and you'll also have QuakeEdge at your disposal, which has great coverage. I also don't see why you don't go for Adamant. If you seen the way Stat made his team, you'd have seen that each team member is meant to hit as hard as possible while it's out. So go ahead and try out Adamant.

Choice Specs is an option on Jolt since by the time it comes out, most things that could stop it (Ground type, Blissey) will have already been taken out (or should have been).

Thank you for the rate. I have considered using three attack Latias though if I were to use it I would have to think about Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse. With the drop in power, things like DD Tyranitar and other set up sweepers will have a very easy time getting off boosts which is something this team is meant to prevent. I will still test it out and possibly use Dragon Pulse in place of Draco. The loss of Calm Mind does mean that I can't hit Scizor and Tyranitar as hard with Surf but I'll see how it goes.

I have made quite a bit of use with Bounce though I will try testing another set. I'm not sure about pairing EQuake with Stone Edge so I'll test that and other move combos out. I'm currently considering Ice Fang. As for the nature, I need to be able to get rid of Jolteon as soon as I can due to the amount of trouble it can cause me. The loss in power wasn't really noticable for me. I also get the ability to outrun stuff like Modest scarf Rotom-A whch has proven to be useful in some cases. I try Adamant out and see how it goes.

I don't really want Specs on Jolt because I have found myself switching between Thunderbolt and Shadowball. I'll occasionally use the other two moves but I usually use both Shadow Ball and T-bolt every battle.

@Witness-Thanks for the rate. This team's biggest problem in my experience is Mamoswine. I usually have to play around him and I definatley need a better way to deal with him. Although Zond does help with that he doesn't fit in a team such as this. Infernape is very important and helps get me off to a fast start. Bronzong's speed and low attack makes it slow down the entire team which would make winning much more difficult as I would be forced to make switches against guys like Infernape and Heatran which is something I don't want to do. He is also beaten by several leads which makes it difficult to set up SR.

@brksocs-Thank you for the rate. Jolteon is actually a very important member of the team. He isn't meant to perform the Gyara-Jolt combo as this team doesn't make switches very often. He is usally able to sweep the other team once they have taken a bit of damage without needing any set up. Lucario slows the team down quite a bit and causes me to lose out on a useful electric immunity, making it harder for me to deal with guys like Specs Jolteon as Latias is taking SE from Shadow Ball. Nevertheless, I'll try him out and see how he works.

Also, I apologize for the format. I'm having trouble Editing the OP.

 

[Orcelot005]

Cool team.

You definately have a problem with the Ground-Ice attacking combination, because if anything carrying it will cause some serious problems for this team. Bronzong is the only Pokemon is OU that resists it, and I think Bronzong can benefit in your lead position.

Bronzong@ Leftovers
Levitate
Sassy nature (+Sp. Defense, -Speed)
252 HP/86 Attack/80 Defense/92 Sp. Defense

Stealth Rock
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Explosion/Hypnosis

Well, this set is standard Bronzong. Stealth Rock doesn't need an explanation, while Gyro Ball is for STAB and Earthquake is your coverage move to obliterate Heatran and Magnezone. The last slot is based purely on preference. Another set you can run is the Dual-Screen, which will really help Salamence and Gyarados set up.

Hope I helped, and Good Luck!

Bronzong would be terrible addition to this team. Suicidal Offense is about keeping the offensive pressure on your opponent and making the nessasary sacrifices.

I'm not the greatest team rater, but I do have one suggestion. Give Jolteon Charge Beam over Signal Beam, if you can get a special attack boost then Celebi is OHKO'd by Shadow Ball anyway.

 

[mc2094]

I'm not the greatest team rater, but I do have one suggestion. Give Jolteon Charge Beam over Signal Beam, if you can get a special attack boost then Celebi is OHKO'd by Shadow Ball anyway.

Hm, I don't see why not. I agree with Zong not fitting with this team. He's great but just doesn't work well here.

 

[Witnessed]

I do agree that Bronzong is an awful team member to use on hyper offensive team, but I used a team similar to this with Bronzong and I found it to be very helpful. Not only does Bronzong bring a plethora of resistances, but he immideiately gives your opponent a false idea that it is just a normal offensive team. Then, your opponent is caught off guard by an onslaught of attackers. Yes, Zong may seem odd on a hyper offensive team such as this, but he can help your sweepers set up by setting up screens, as I said above. You do whatever you feel is right, though. Hope I helped(a little).

 

[mc2094]

I know Zong would help it's just that I feel Infernape is a bit more useful. I'm not really concerned about resists too much though I really like how he could work well to stop Mamoswine. If I do fit him in, I'm probably going to need to make some additional changes.

 

[august]

Hi.

If you are going to try to clear out Blissey with Heatran then I don't see why you don't just use Life Orb. Unlike Shuca, you will feel the advantage of Life Orb every game, throwing off ridiculously powerful Fire Blasts. Life Orb allows you to get more power to whack around even mons that resist Fire (for example, Salamence takes about 60% from Fire Blast if it's Mix/DD). The point of hyper offense is to weaken the opposing team sufficiently enough that even pokemon that usually counter your other sweepers cannot beat them, and using Life Orb on Heatran will certainly help you.

I second the suggestion of Charge Beam on your Jolteon, it allows you to sweep through the opponent late game with a boost, and it will also give your Hyper Offense team an edge over other hyper offense teams, as Jolteon and Metagross are both 2 of HO's biggest problems.

Im kind of curious as to how exactly you are Mamoswine weak though. Gyarados outspeeds and easily OHKOs or gets a free Dragon Dance and Infernape resists it's priority STAB and OHKOs easily. My other question is how successful your hyper offense is without making it completely 1 sided? I've always had trouble running 2 sided hyper offense in the past because Blissey was a bitch from the special side of the spectrum and i didn't have enough power from the physical side to muscle through the physical walls that were constantly stopping me.

My last comment is that you should give Dual Screen SR Azelf a shot over Infernape. I have used both in my current hyper offense team and the only difference is that Azelf tends to give you a bigger advantage vs stall that carries Hippowdon, who stops Infernape pretty cold. On the other hand, Azelf easily Taunt + Reflects in it's face and after that it is all downhill, stall will not be able to touch you with both screens up and you will easily pull through. Reflect will also make it so Mamo / AgiliGross don't hit you like a nuke, and likewise with Light Screen and SpecsJolt (although your own Jolt and Latias certainly help!)

Cool team though, thumbs up.

 

[mc2094]

Hi.

If you are going to try to clear out Blissey with Heatran then I don't see why you don't just use Life Orb. Unlike Shuca, you will feel the advantage of Life Orb every game, throwing off ridiculously powerful Fire Blasts. Life Orb allows you to get more power to whack around even mons that resist Fire (for example, Salamence takes about 60% from Fire Blast if it's Mix/DD). The point of hyper offense is to weaken the opposing team sufficiently enough that even pokemon that usually counter your other sweepers cannot beat them, and using Life Orb on Heatran will certainly help you.

I second the suggestion of Charge Beam on your Jolteon, it allows you to sweep through the opponent late game with a boost, and it will also give your Hyper Offense team an edge over other hyper offense teams, as Jolteon and Metagross are both 2 of HO's biggest problems.

Im kind of curious as to how exactly you are Mamoswine weak though. Gyarados outspeeds and easily OHKOs or gets a free Dragon Dance and Infernape resists it's priority STAB and OHKOs easily. My other question is how successful your hyper offense is without making it completely 1 sided? I've always had trouble running 2 sided hyper offense in the past because Blissey was a bitch from the special side of the spectrum and i didn't have enough power from the physical side to muscle through the physical walls that were constantly stopping me.

My last comment is that you should give Dual Screen SR Azelf a shot over Infernape. I have used both in my current hyper offense team and the only difference is that Azelf tends to give you a bigger advantage vs stall that carries Hippowdon, who stops Infernape pretty cold. On the other hand, Azelf easily Taunt + Reflects in it's face and after that it is all downhill, stall will not be able to touch you with both screens up and you will easily pull through. Reflect will also make it so Mamo / AgiliGross don't hit you like a nuke, and likewise with Light Screen and SpecsJolt (although your own Jolt and Latias certainly help!)

Cool team though, thumbs up.

Thank you very much for the rate. I have found Shuca Berry useful but I suppose Life Orb has more use in the end. I lose the surprise of not being choiced but I suppose the increased power is more important. I have added Charge Beam on Jolt but I can't seem to edit my post. It has proven to be useful in some of my battles, getting me a late game sweep a few times since I started testing it and is staying in place of signal beam. The mixed part is a bit confusing to explain. Heatran is usally able to get rid of Blissey very easily in my experience which opens up my opponent to Latias and Jolteon. I usally use Latias to just soften up my opponents team as without Blissey, they usually have no way to prevent that from happening. Jolteon is usually to perform a late game clean up and is usually succesfull since most of his counters such as Tyranitar and Blissey have been removed. Salamence and Gyarados are usually able to cause most of the damage, putting several things in KO range for Life Orb Thunderbolt. I really like the suggestion of DS Azelf. I have used it before and it works pretty well in my experience. I'll give it a shot. The only question I would have is should I go with Taunt or Explosion. I think taunt will be abit more useful since I can keep SR off of my field for a while and with Explosion I have to predict whether or not my opponenst has a Ghost or something. As for the Mamo weak, it kind of gives me trouble late game but most people send him inearlier in my experience. It's one of those if x is dead then y will give you trouble weaknesses. I just don't like how it can counter multiple pokemon on my team.