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Team Death Wind (Rate my OU team)
- Thread starter WhiteQueen
- Start date
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This looks familiar, lol. When I faced this team, I noticed one problem. If Rotom is gone, you don't really have any way to deal with last-pokèmon Suicune, as you can't Roar him away. Otherwise, great team! Great minds think alike.
Thanks, man. Yeah, a last pokemon with a boosting move like Suicune can be problematic if I don't have Rotom-H to Trick it. Hopefully I'm smart enough next time to not let that situation presents itself again. :)
wow, cool team! i absolutely love how you use such underrated pokemon, such as bulk up breloom, reflect/roar latias, and restalk heatran. all are so good, but nobody actually uses them...i love how you utilize spikes + uncommon phazers as well. obviously it isnt perfect, but it is pretty damn good. there is some stuff that gives you trouble; something like tyranitar or scizor + gengar or lo latias can really fuck you up. your only hope of killing them is to revenge it with the pursuit bait rotom, who needs to shadow ball to actually revenge them. "only takes 70-80%" is not a good check to logar, and latias can also cleanly 2hko it. something to sponge strong special attacks would be cool. unfortunate as it may be, breloom is the weak link in the team. i keep looking at other things that could be replaced, but breloom is the most replacable. now, what should we replace him with? honestly, i think a blissey would fit in here.
blissey does some things that breloom doesnt. she sponges the special attacks that plague your team so much, and provides a nice defensive base while giving a nice 100 damage per turn. she has reliable healing, unlike her more offensive version snorlax. i think 220 satk blissey would be cool, as it will ALWAYS break rotom's subs, and ohko scizor as well. blissey could also go over heatran; you lose the phazing that heatran gives, but in return you get better special walling power. its really your decision, i'd try her in both slots and then see if she's good in either. the set is bold 252 def / 136 satk / 120 hp bold with ice beam / stoss / softboiled / toxic. ice beam nails salamence and flygon for a sweet ohko, but you can always use flamethrower if you fear metagross and scizor more than the dragons. anyways, good luck with the team, and i hope i helped some!
blissey does some things that breloom doesnt. she sponges the special attacks that plague your team so much, and provides a nice defensive base while giving a nice 100 damage per turn. she has reliable healing, unlike her more offensive version snorlax. i think 220 satk blissey would be cool, as it will ALWAYS break rotom's subs, and ohko scizor as well. blissey could also go over heatran; you lose the phazing that heatran gives, but in return you get better special walling power. its really your decision, i'd try her in both slots and then see if she's good in either. the set is bold 252 def / 136 satk / 120 hp bold with ice beam / stoss / softboiled / toxic. ice beam nails salamence and flygon for a sweet ohko, but you can always use flamethrower if you fear metagross and scizor more than the dragons. anyways, good luck with the team, and i hope i helped some!
This looks really good and congratss on the 16th, you must be on constantly. Well to get on with the team, I just have to look at your threat lists to see how you can patch it up. Salamence looks like a piece of trouble for this team, Dragon Dance versions Outrage or Dragon Claw versions will trouble you. You might consider a Jolly Jirachi with the same EVs but with Choice Scarf and moveset: Iron Head / Stealth Rock / Thunderbolt / Ice Punch. This way, you get the huge load off Rotom's back for checking Gyrados because a potential, predicted Waterfall can take a huge toll of Rotom and Pursuit it easily. I believe Rotom just needs to wall Lucario, nothing more - as you currently need it right now and its too exposted to Pursuit. With Scarf, you can check Salamence now - locked in dies to Ice Punch. Thunderbolt hurts Skarmory, and Gyarados like you mentioned and Iron Head is good on frailer sweepers. Of course, Stealth Rock is a must, but without making any major changes, I think this would patch it up. You can test it to see how it works.
As for other options, you can try the Special Defensive Skarmory to take on nearly all the Dragon-types. Same EV spread but with Careful and special defense evs. You can try Will-o-Wisp over Shadow Ball if you want on Rotom to soften up Tyranitar's Pursuit if it manages to come in, but it requires a huge deal of prediction. overall gl.
As for other options, you can try the Special Defensive Skarmory to take on nearly all the Dragon-types. Same EV spread but with Careful and special defense evs. You can try Will-o-Wisp over Shadow Ball if you want on Rotom to soften up Tyranitar's Pursuit if it manages to come in, but it requires a huge deal of prediction. overall gl.
Thanks, dude. Tyranitar is completely fucked by Breloom, even if he has 6 Dragon Dances. Don't forget, Breloom has Mach Punch so unless Tyranitar carries a Chople Berry, he doesn't stand a chance. Tyranitar with a Chople Berry is extremely unlikely with so many Scizor's around...so nothing of concern there. If anything, Tyranitar is mere fodder for me to set up. Scizor's ChoiceBand Bullet Punch does like 50-65% damage to Breloom, and Breloom can Spore him back then Bulk Up and virtually fucks Scizor up afterward. And Mach Punch can fuck up Lucario too. I can also switch in Skarmory to take any physical hits. Breloom might look like the weakest link to you, but he's what makes this team tick. Yes, Gengar and a Life Orb Latias can deal damages, but don't forget, my Latias is just as fast as they are, so I have a 50/50 chance against them. If I strike first, they'll faint. Of course I would not switch Heatran in to take two Focus Blast from Gengar or two Life Orb Surf from Latias--I know better than that! ;)
Blissey is a good idea, and I've tried her in a previous version of this team. She's more of a liability than she is helpful. I also hate the fact that she is not immune to Toxic Spikes. She does take hits from Latias and Gengar much better, but as I mentioned earlier, my Latias is kinda bulky and she is just as fast as Gengar and enemy Latias's. I can gamble with that. And if enemy Latias and Gengar are scarfed, then it's even more jolly! Shadow Ball Latias? I switch in Heatran to Roar. Focus Blast or Surf Heatran? I switch in Latias to Roar, having a jolly time! =)
Also, if Jirachi is in good health, he can easily switch in on Latias for a TW then spam away with Iron Head.
Thanks, man. That's a nice Jirachi, and I've thought about giving it a Choice Scarf. But so far, the current Jirachi I have does much more damages. It can cripple SkarmBliss, cripple sweepers, and kill off Gyarados with Thunderbolt. You see, Gyarados is not at all a threat to my team, unless it has 3-4 DD's up, but if that were to happen, then I deserve to lose. Skarmory is capable of blowing it away unless it has Taunt. Say it has Taunt, then it means that it will have Taunt, Dragon Dance, Waterfall, and another move (Earthquake, Stone Edge, Bounce) and Stone Edge sounds the most likely here for better coverage. My Breloom completely resist Gyarados's attacks except Bounce so if it doesn't carry Bounce, Breloom will fuck it up. As for Rotom-H, I do realize he's Pursuit bait, but his main job is to block Spinners...and if Scizor or Tyranitar pursuits him, I'll switch in Breloom afterward to Spore. Anything else Rotom-H does like revenging Gyarados, Lucario, and Tricking slow boosters are just icing on the cake.
As for Salamence, ALL my pokemon can take him. He can't set up on Breloom, Jirachi, Latias, and Rotom-H. He can't set up on Skarmory and Heatran either, since they can phaze him away. Unless I know for sure it is a MixMence, I won't risk losing my entire team to a Dragon Dancing variant. Oh yeah, if I used Rest on Heatran, then he could be set up fodder, but I like the chances of Burning switch-in with Lava Plume and Roaring away the switch in. I love to gamble! Also, Dragon Claw is so uncommon on a Salamence set, so even if he has +1 DD, I'll send in Latias, that will scare him shitless and he'll end up Outraing, then I'll send in Skarmory or Heatran or Jirachi if his health is good to blow or cripple Salamence.
Specially bulk Skarmory sounds very interesting, but I like Physical Skarmory's ability to wall pests like Kingdra, Metagross, Scizor, etc.
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I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. I'm just explaining and defending on how I deal with those threats, that's all.
Ya should know that your latias can take care of those Sala and Dnite. Ya just need to change it into a Scarf variant. By the by any good player with a DDance pokemon will most likely use that first. So you have two choices. Priority ice move Ice Shard to take care of them or Scarf Latias. That's pretty much it.
Thanks, dude. I agree DDNite and DDMence are huge threats. But honestly, little miss Starmie causes me more problem than they do. Giving Latias a Choice Scarf would ruin her ability to wall Infernape and Heatran and also make her an easy prey for Puisuiters...Plus, she's one of the three Phazing Amigos.
Like I defended in a previous post, Dragonite and Salamence can't set up on me. Even if they are able to get a +DD up, those pokemon will likely carry Outrage for maximum powers, but after they Outrage Latias or Rotom-H in order to OHKO them, I can switch in one of my three steels to blow them away. :)
I can deal with MixNite and MixMence just fine with good switching.
Bulkyddnite and Bulkymence usually carry dragon claw.
The Bulky variants usually sacrifice some Attack or Speed or both for HP and Defenses, thus making their +1 Dragon Claw much weaker than a normal 252Atk Adamant Outrage. So Rotom-H can always come in for a sacrifice to Trick since Dragon Claw will not OHKO my Rotom even after a Dragon Dance. That was in regard to Salamence. Dragonite will ALWAYS be slower than my Rotom-H even after a Dragon Dance, so Tricking it shouldn't be a problem.
Why does Rotom-h invest in Special Defense and not Special Attack?Having more Special Attack would allow you to get some KOs that would appear in "Real World" situations in battles that no one ever covers in lists of damage calculations. Rotom-h also takes one more point of damage from Stealth Rock when it has max HP, so it should have one point less than max Speed. Special Defense just isn't as important for Rotom-h. Otherwise the team looks very good. *Copies team*
That's a good point. The more damages done, the better. But Rotom-H isn't really made to deal damages...it's existence is to block Rapid Spinners; anything else it does is just extra. The Sp.D investment is to take hits from Starmie better since STAB Surf hurts like a bitch, even if Starmie doesn't carry a Life Orb, so the more hits Rotom-H can take from the "harmless" fish, the better.
Oh, I do not know about the whole max HP, taking one more point of damage from Stealth Rock thing. Do you mind explaining more? Better yet, is there somewhere on Smogon that I can read about it?
Thanks for the suggestions and compliment, man. I appreciate it. :)
Hey, I got your PM, so lets see what we can do. First, congratulations on getting up so high. My highest ever was a stall team that got to 15th place, and then fell dramatically a few days later lol. But this is a team that seems consistently good, and knows what it wants to accomplish, which is great; I rate so many teams nowadays that are just random Pokemon thrown together because they are strong. This team really intrigued me, though, so I playtested it in ten battles. Not only did it seem that you had a huge problem with Dragons, but it also seemed that Rotom-H was total Pursuit bait for Scizor. I thought about Choice Scarf Flygon in that spot, so I tested him for ten more battles; he worked much better, able to kill Salamence and Dragonite after a Dragon Dance easily (with Stealth Rock factored in). However, I noticed that you still needed a Spin Blocker; I thought, and then I finally came upon Spiritomb. Spiritomb is a great Pokemon for your team, and can also sponge hits that would otherwise pain your other team members; for instance, Lucario is completely walled, and Outrage from +1 Salamence will never OHKO; Spiritomb can then cripple it with Will-O-Wisp. Not only that, but he makes a great check to Starmie, whom your team can often struggle to contain. The only problem is that he isn't immune to Toxic Spikes / Spikes, but this isn't much of a concern, thanks to the psuedo-recovery from Pain Split. Here is the set:
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Hp / 140 Atk / 116 SpD
Careful nature (+Special Defense, -Special Attack)
~ Pursuit
~ Taunt
~ Pain Split
~ Will-O-Wisp
While Spiritomb can't revenge kill like Rotom-H can, it is still an amazing Spin Blocker, and has a great support movepool. Pursuit is a great move for switching into any Psychic or Ghost type, such as Starmie, Alakazam, or Gengar. They will almost definitely switch, and Pursuit will score some massive STAB super-effective damage on them when they do. Taunt is also a great move, as it can stop set up sweepers from ruining you, such as Dragon Dance Mence. Pain Split allows Spiritomb an odd form of recovery that can also sap your opponent's Hit Points, provided they are at higher health than you. Will-O-Wisp is a great move for crippling the dangerous Physical Attackers in OU. In a metagame that is dominated by set up sweepers such as Swords Dance Luke and Scizor, or the Dragon Dancers, Will-O-Wisp is an awesome move to have. Beware, however, of giving Heatran a free Flash Fire boost.
That is really all I can suggest, this is a pretty perfect team, and the above users made it even better. As for Starmie, try this out; I dont think that it will be bothering you any more. Anyway, I hope I helped your team, and good luck! =)
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Hp / 140 Atk / 116 SpD
Careful nature (+Special Defense, -Special Attack)
~ Pursuit
~ Taunt
~ Pain Split
~ Will-O-Wisp
While Spiritomb can't revenge kill like Rotom-H can, it is still an amazing Spin Blocker, and has a great support movepool. Pursuit is a great move for switching into any Psychic or Ghost type, such as Starmie, Alakazam, or Gengar. They will almost definitely switch, and Pursuit will score some massive STAB super-effective damage on them when they do. Taunt is also a great move, as it can stop set up sweepers from ruining you, such as Dragon Dance Mence. Pain Split allows Spiritomb an odd form of recovery that can also sap your opponent's Hit Points, provided they are at higher health than you. Will-O-Wisp is a great move for crippling the dangerous Physical Attackers in OU. In a metagame that is dominated by set up sweepers such as Swords Dance Luke and Scizor, or the Dragon Dancers, Will-O-Wisp is an awesome move to have. Beware, however, of giving Heatran a free Flash Fire boost.
That is really all I can suggest, this is a pretty perfect team, and the above users made it even better. As for Starmie, try this out; I dont think that it will be bothering you any more. Anyway, I hope I helped your team, and good luck! =)
you are overestimating both breloom and heatran. after stealth rocks, you literally cant switch into logar/lo starmie/lo latias at all. all three 2hko easily, and starmie lands an ohko. in fact, all they need to do is to get heatran down ~15% and have rocks up. that's all they need to sweep you. what i was talking about with ttar + special attacker is that he can pursuit your only hope of killing those special attackers in rotom and latias, and then there would be no chance of you coming back. you have no way of dealing with these pokemon. you need some form of something to actually be able to switch in to these things.
Thanks.
Thanks for the rate and the kind words. =) I never really thought about Spiritomb. He really appears to be a good fit. When I get back to this team, I will definitely try him out. Despite his weakness to Toxic Spikes, which I wholly destest; his pros totally outweighs his cons. Also, he's not set-up fodder, which works for me. He does appear to do a lot of the things that Rotom-H does and even better.Hey, I got your PM, so lets see what we can do. First, congratulations on getting up so high. My highest ever was a stall team that got to 15th place, and then fell dramatically a few days later lol. But this is a team that seems consistently good, and knows what it wants to accomplish, which is great; I rate so many teams nowadays that are just random Pokemon thrown together because they are strong. This team really intrigued me, though, so I playtested it in ten battles. Not only did it seem that you had a huge problem with Dragons, but it also seemed that Rotom-H was total Pursuit bait for Scizor. I thought about Choice Scarf Flygon in that spot, so I tested him for ten more battles; he worked much better, able to kill Salamence and Dragonite after a Dragon Dance easily (with Stealth Rock factored in). However, I noticed that you still needed a Spin Blocker; I thought, and then I finally came upon Spiritomb. Spiritomb is a great Pokemon for your team, and can also sponge hits that would otherwise pain your other team members; for instance, Lucario is completely walled, and Outrage from +1 Salamence will never OHKO; Spiritomb can then cripple it with Will-O-Wisp. Not only that, but he makes a great check to Starmie, whom your team can often struggle to contain. The only problem is that he isn't immune to Toxic Spikes / Spikes, but this isn't much of a concern, thanks to the psuedo-recovery from Pain Split. Here is the set:
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Hp / 140 Atk / 116 SpD
Careful nature (+Special Defense, -Special Attack)
~ Pursuit
~ Taunt
~ Pain Split
~ Will-O-Wisp
While Spiritomb can't revenge kill like Rotom-H can, it is still an amazing Spin Blocker, and has a great support movepool. Pursuit is a great move for switching into any Psychic or Ghost type, such as Starmie, Alakazam, or Gengar. They will almost definitely switch, and Pursuit will score some massive STAB super-effective damage on them when they do. Taunt is also a great move, as it can stop set up sweepers from ruining you, such as Dragon Dance Mence. Pain Split allows Spiritomb an odd form of recovery that can also sap your opponent's Hit Points, provided they are at higher health than you. Will-O-Wisp is a great move for crippling the dangerous Physical Attackers in OU. In a metagame that is dominated by set up sweepers such as Swords Dance Luke and Scizor, or the Dragon Dancers, Will-O-Wisp is an awesome move to have. Beware, however, of giving Heatran a free Flash Fire boost.
That is really all I can suggest, this is a pretty perfect team, and the above users made it even better. As for Starmie, try this out; I dont think that it will be bothering you any more. Anyway, I hope I helped your team, and good luck! =)
I see what you're saying. Sorry I misunderstood. You're definitely right. Hopefully my pokemon are all in good health to take out those threats for me. Thanks goodness most teams only have one of those! Imagine Starmie, Latias and Gengar all in one team, I would be royally fucked.
Got your PM, so let's take a look.
Jirachi is a cool lead, and if that's working for you then fine. You might want to consider choice scarfing it though, for 3 reasons. One is that it adds another revenge killer, and this one isn't pursuit weak. Being able to outrun or tie every +1 Salamence could save you in a pinch. Secondly, it gives you access to Trick. Trick would be a big help against stall teams, but more importantly bulky last Pokemon set-ups such as CroCune, something that could beat your team if Rotom has died as was mentioned. Finally, it give's you access to U-turn. By using the set of Stealth Rock/ Iron Head/ U turn/ Trick, you gain the ability to scout. On a team that relies on racking up entry hazard damage, scouting is a huge advantage, because it ensures that momentum is always on your side.
Your Rotom seems like it would rather be non-scarf, since even if it can outrun threats the most it's going to do is Trick, or the off chance or paralysis. A spread of 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe with a move set of Discharge/ Shadow Ball/ Reflect/ Overheat looks like it could do a good job of spin blocking for you. Reflect is to ease the issue of Pursuit, as well as let your Phazers do their job easier. I don't see an issue with both Latias and Rotom having it, because they each need a defense against Physical attacks.
Heatran looks good, but you may want to switch it to a Sub-Roar set. Heatran has no issue getting a sub up, and once it has one you can decide whether to attack with lava plume or earth power, or Roar them away. If you decide to make that switch, then you could change Rotom to the rest/talk set, so that you maintain a status absorber. That set would be Discharge/Reflect/Rest/Sleep Talk.
Now by changing Rotom, you're opened up to Lucario a bit more. It finds a hard time setting up, but once it does you have to rely on breloom to revenge it. A simple change of Evs on your Latias can help you handle it a lot easier. Changing the spread to 210 HP/ 60 Defense/ 240 Speed lets you take either a Plus 2 Extremespeed, or a plus 2 crunch from behind a reflect. You also still out space Infernape, so Latias can continue to serve as a check to him.
Nice Team, good luck!
Jirachi is a cool lead, and if that's working for you then fine. You might want to consider choice scarfing it though, for 3 reasons. One is that it adds another revenge killer, and this one isn't pursuit weak. Being able to outrun or tie every +1 Salamence could save you in a pinch. Secondly, it gives you access to Trick. Trick would be a big help against stall teams, but more importantly bulky last Pokemon set-ups such as CroCune, something that could beat your team if Rotom has died as was mentioned. Finally, it give's you access to U-turn. By using the set of Stealth Rock/ Iron Head/ U turn/ Trick, you gain the ability to scout. On a team that relies on racking up entry hazard damage, scouting is a huge advantage, because it ensures that momentum is always on your side.
Your Rotom seems like it would rather be non-scarf, since even if it can outrun threats the most it's going to do is Trick, or the off chance or paralysis. A spread of 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe with a move set of Discharge/ Shadow Ball/ Reflect/ Overheat looks like it could do a good job of spin blocking for you. Reflect is to ease the issue of Pursuit, as well as let your Phazers do their job easier. I don't see an issue with both Latias and Rotom having it, because they each need a defense against Physical attacks.
Heatran looks good, but you may want to switch it to a Sub-Roar set. Heatran has no issue getting a sub up, and once it has one you can decide whether to attack with lava plume or earth power, or Roar them away. If you decide to make that switch, then you could change Rotom to the rest/talk set, so that you maintain a status absorber. That set would be Discharge/Reflect/Rest/Sleep Talk.
Now by changing Rotom, you're opened up to Lucario a bit more. It finds a hard time setting up, but once it does you have to rely on breloom to revenge it. A simple change of Evs on your Latias can help you handle it a lot easier. Changing the spread to 210 HP/ 60 Defense/ 240 Speed lets you take either a Plus 2 Extremespeed, or a plus 2 crunch from behind a reflect. You also still out space Infernape, so Latias can continue to serve as a check to him.
Nice Team, good luck!
Hey I run the exact same Breloom spread! Great minds think alike amirite?
However I use a SD set, and I use Seed Bomb, as most will GTFO if they see a Breloom come in as they assume that it WILL use Spore, giving you a free Bulk Up, which might be a handy option. Also I have found Synthesis is a good option, as Breloom is a counter to both setter-upperers of Sand Storm. (though I also used it on a Mono-Grass Sunny Day team, so yeah). So I reckon it might be worth testing Seed Bomb over Spore. Just in a longer way of saying it >.>
However I use a SD set, and I use Seed Bomb, as most will GTFO if they see a Breloom come in as they assume that it WILL use Spore, giving you a free Bulk Up, which might be a handy option. Also I have found Synthesis is a good option, as Breloom is a counter to both setter-upperers of Sand Storm. (though I also used it on a Mono-Grass Sunny Day team, so yeah). So I reckon it might be worth testing Seed Bomb over Spore. Just in a longer way of saying it >.>
Thanks for your suggestions.
Jirachi with ChoiceScarf certainly would help against Salamence, Gengar, etc. Being able to U-Turn away to switch in an immediate counter also sounds really, really good. But I don't like my Pokemon being set-up fodders. Say he switches in on Salamence for an Iron Head hax, then something like Lucario or Gyarados or Kingdra could switch in to power up and if my Rotom-H is fainted already and Breloom weakened, I'll be swept. Also, Skarmory would be able to come in to set-up Spikes in my face, which is something my team doesn't appreciate. I also like the flexibility my Jirachi provides, as he alone is capable of crippling entire teams every now and then. ScarfedJirachi does sound really good...I"ll probably give it a test later to see how well it does.
A none-Scarf Rotom-H sounds viable, and certainly something I will try. I guess I have him scarfed because I worry too much about countering the likes of Gyarados and Lucario... Reflect on Rotom-H sounds interesting, but I'll first try the standard Will-o-Wisp/Discharge/Rest/Sleep Talk with more emphasis on Sp.D EVs to see how that works.
Your Heatran set would do wonder against enemy Heatrans and to just phaze away opposition for further residual damages, but Heatran really needs to be able to heal himself, especially against Blissey, Rotom-a, etc, etc. He not only works as a phazer, status absorber, but he also is able to switch in on Calm Mind Latias, Jirachi, Zapdos, Blissey repeatedly to phaze them away, and the only way he can do that is by healing himself with Rest afterward. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to take repeated Seismic Tosses from Blissey and damages done by those other pokemon mentioned.
Spore is what makes Breloom great imo. It's such an annoying move that forces people to switch out their pokemon, which is good for entry hazards teams like mine. Breloom can heal itself pretty well with his "Poison Heal" ability, so I don't think Synthesis is really necessary.
Your Breloom sounds cool, but it would probably work wonder on an offensive-minded team, just not mine. Thanks for your suggestion, though.