Team Balance Problems

≥Balance Problems≤


The other day I faced a team that used a Rain Dance Kingdra with no support. The team had nothing to aid in Kingdras ability to sweep a team, so I thought to myself that I could make a team based around RD Kingdra and use it as my late game sweeper that I could easily sweep through teams. I began to think of what Pokemon inhibit a Kingdra sweep and what I would need to eliminate those threats.

Team Building Process
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I of course started with Rain Dance Kingdra and decided to make Kingdra specially oriented because I believe he has more opportunities to sweep through the use of special attacks. Now I need to start thinking of ways to get rid of Tyranitar, Blissey, and Vaporeon. That lead me to my next pokemon;
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I then added a specially defensive Scizor that would be able to switch in multiple times as he is needed to check multiple threats. Scouting with U-Turn gives me invaluable information on the opponents team. Usually letting me know when it would be safe to bring Kingdra in to set up a Rain Dance. It also hits Vaporeon for a ton of damage. Bullet Punch allows me two revenge kill otherwise threatening Pokemon such as Gengar, DDTtar, and DDmence. Although I do run Ice Beam on Kingdra being able to Pursuit Latias is a big plus as without Rain set-up Latias is a pretty big threat. So now I have a way of dealing with Tyranitar and Blissey but Vaporeon was still a bit of an issue.
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In comes Salamence. Now I knew he wouldn't help that much in my Vaporeon issues but I know that spamming LO Draco Meteors would begin to soften up any potential threats. However the number of times I can do this would be limited by SR and LO recoil so I knew I wanted to use Classic MixMence with Roost which is the best set Mence can run in my opinion.
Fire Blast would allow me to take out Celebi and plethora of steels. I now had picked up yet another Pokemon vunerable to Dragon attacks so I began to consider another steel but one that could also act as a lure for Blissey or Latias.
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This left me thinking of Magnezone, completing the SalaZone combination. I started thinking of which set I should go with as I knew I didn't want the typical Scarf version. This lead me to thinking that a Substitute Magnezone would make a great addition to my team being able to set up a sub on Scizor Bullet Punches or Pursuits. From behind a sub any Pokemon can be even more threatening as they have to take a hit to be able to break the sub. I remember seeing a SubZone running Explosion and found this to be exactly what I needed. Blissey and Latias love switching into Zone after you've taken out one of their Steels but now they've opened themselves up to getting their special wall exploded on. I still was in need of a solid revenge killer and a lead. After going through the options; Heatran fit the bill.
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I had chosen to use Scarftran as my lead being able to set up a quick SR and be used to revenge kill later in the game. He also allows me extra resistances to my Dragons weaknesses along with the capability to explode on any Pokemon that might be deemed as a threat to Kingdra. But now I had another ground weak Pokemon and only one Pokemon immune to ground that carried a nasty SR weakness. I needed another levitator/flier.
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Latias was the final piece to this now triple dragon, triple steel team. Giving me a reliable switch-in to a variety of special attackers and force numerous switches. Latias allows me to check Heatran and Infernape, two Pokemon that could be problematic without her.

Numbers

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Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
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Earth Power
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Fire Blast
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Stealth Rock
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Explosion


Heatran is my favorite Pokemon to lead with, he always can turn the momentum in my favor and is one of the few leads that can be useful over the entire course of the game. He can do much more than SR and die. I use Heatran to make multiple switch-ins and find myself netting quite a lot of kills through his Fire Blast. With Choice Scarf I am guaranteed to get off an SR and it makes those using Taunt leads look quite foolish. Putting up SR is invaluable as it can push so many 2HKO's into OHKO's. I don't find myself often using Explosion but it has been a godsend in many games. Always having it to fall back on for Pokemon like CMCune is reassuring. His many resistance always prove useful later on in the game so I always try to keep him alive but if he has to die to put up SR it's a worthy sacrifice.

Vs. Common Leads
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: In most cases I find myself feeling lucky and go for Fire Blast, which is an easy OHKO on any Metagross not carrying an Occa Berry. This is a big risk to take however as they can resort to using EQ instead of SR meaning that if it's anything but an OHKO I'd lose my Heatran and be unable to set up SR. Which would mean that they wouldn't get to SR either as I would go to Magnezone to clean up the kill. I hardly have to resort to this, I win against this lead the majority of the time as even Occagross usually SR first turn.
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: Another lead that I commonly just hit with Fire Blast. Since most of these leads carry Taunt if I use Fire Blast as they Taunt I can KO them without them getting the opportunity to SR. That's the best case scenario but in any case I KO with Fire Blast and come back later to put up my own SR.
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: First turn Fire Blast, always an OHKO. The worst case scenario against Jirachi is that it has scarf and puts up SR before I can KO it or it gets the jump on me with a U-Turn which usually will force me to switch.
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: I have to switch here. Heatran can't touch Swampert without using Explosion and can't risk staying into SR as I need Heatran to be alive later on. I initially switch to Salamence on the predicting EQ and throw a Draco Meteor at it which can be devastating to Swampert should it stay in.
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: Similar to Azlef except I SR first turn and then switch to Scizor to pick Aero off with Bullet Punch.
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: Another case where I have to switch. Latias is my primary switch in but I can be put in a world of trouble if it's an Endeavor lead. Infernape can be problematic as a lead.
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: Identical to Swampert. Although most teams leading with Hippo will primarily switch to Blissey after I switch Salamence in.
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: Fire Blast, as long as it doesn't miss Bronzong leads aren't a threat.
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: Switch to Scizor, then U-Turn and see what happens from there.

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Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 Atk/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
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Draco Meteor
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Earthquake
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Fire Blast
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Roost


Salamence is easily the biggest threat in the OU metagame. You never know what to expect but you can always expect it to KO one of your Pokemon as you trip over yourself to figure out what set it is. I went with Classic MixMence with Roost for it's longevity. Any opportunity my opponent allows me to Roost I gladly take as the more HP I have to more attacks I can use and being able to spit multiple Draco Meteors over the course of a game can be very damaging to my opponents team, severely weakening stall teams and getting instant KO's on anything on an offensive team barring Steel types. Along with Magnezone I have flawless type coverage making it very easy to get Mence in to Roost up or DM. Fire Blast along with EQ allows me to deal with the Steels that try to sponge my Draco Meteors and force me to switch. Salamence is essential to a late game Kingdra sweep as he can leave a team filled with wholes and walls crippled. Once Salamence has run his course there shouldn't be much left to stop Kingdra.

Damage Calculations

Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 188 HP / 0 SpD Bold Vaporeon: 68.08% - 80.13%
Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 216 SpD Careful Tyranitar: 53.71% - 63.37%
Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Celebi: 72.28% - 85.15%
Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/ 0 SpD Adamant Scizor: 51.16% - 60.17%
Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/ 0 SpD Relaxed Swampert: 78.96% - 92.82%
Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Suicune: 64.36% - 75.74%
Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 0 SpD +1 Bold Suicune: 43.07% - 50.74%
Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Adamant Metagross: 43.96% - 51.65%


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Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
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Explosion
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Hidden Power [Grass]
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Substitute
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Thunderbolt


My answer to Scizor and my lure for Blissey, Latias, and Swampert. I do my best to keep Magnezone hidden from my opponent doing everything I can to not be forced to switch him in. I wait for the pristine moment to bring Zone in on Scizor as its locked into Bullet Punch or Pursuit. From this point I am free to set up a Substitute and jolt Thunderbolts at Scizor. I gain a much bigger advantage this way as opposed to ScarfZone who can be used as set up bait. This set however forces out Pokemon like Blissey and Latias in hopes of breaking the Substitute to force a switch. They are met with an unexpected Explosion as it's not common for Explosion to be used alongside Substitute on any Pokemon. Magnezone opens the door for Kingdra to sweep with it's ability to trap or lure many Pokemon that can halt it's sweep.

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Ability: Technician
EVs: 160 HP/176 Atk/4 Spd/168 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
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Bullet Punch
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Pursuit
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Superpower
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U-turn


The second half of my trapping unit. This has to be the best Scizor spread I have used sponging LO Draco Meteors from both Salamence and Latias then having the power to KO either one. He can take many special attacks and Scizor being able to come in on Vaporeon is a must as U-Turn can take quite the chunk of her HP allowing any Pokemon on my team to finish her. It's amazing how much you can find out about an opponents team just by using U-Turn. They will damn near let you know their whole team. The common switch-ins such as Magnezone and Heatran can be threatened by Salamence or Latias often letting me have the confidence to go ahead and spam Draco Meteor. Punishing switches this way is key to the success of this team. Scizor is probably the most important member of this team, without him it would be very difficult for Kingdra to do anything as Scizor can check so many Pokemon.


Damage Calculations
Rash Salamence 252 SpA Life Orb Draco Meteor: 45.17% - 53.27%
Timid Latias 252 SpA Life Orb Draco Meteor: 41.12% - 48.60%
Timid Latias 252 SpA Life Orb Surf: 37.38% - 44.24%
Bold Vaporeon 0 SpA Surf: 34.89% - 41.12%


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Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
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Draco Meteor
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Thunderbolt
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Surf
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Trick


Choice Scarf Latias acts as my primary revenge killer. I originally didn't want to use Scarfed Latias as it is easy Pursuit bait but after using the team it wasn't that big of an issue if I play smart. She allows me to take out +1 Gyaradoses and Mences which is so vital when either one could do massive damage to my team. Latias allows me to check Heatran and MixApe the latter being able to rip this team apart in the right hands. I was very hesitant at first to use Draco Meteor because after the drop they know you are going to switch. I have however found the extra power to be worth that risk, Dragon Pulse just doesn't do enough damage without Life Orb. I also have many answers to Scizors and Tyranitars that are locked into Pursuit and in some cases I have to sacrifice Latias in this way to win. Trick is here to cripple Vaporeon and Blissey should they switch in.

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Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 92 HP/164 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
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Dragon Pulse
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Surf
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Ice Beam
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Rain Dance


RD Kingdra is so unexpected and can always finish the last two to four remaining Pokemon in Rain. Kingdra is one of the best late game sweepers I have ever used as it is so reliable in that nothing will out speed it and a boosted Surf hits so hard that few Pokemon will not be OHKO'd by it. This thing is just a beast with Life Orb and Rain boosting it's Surfs. I can easily rip apart the remainder of my opponents team with this one attack. I do occasionally use HP-Electric over Ice Beam but I find Ice Beam more useful. Dragon Pulse is here as a secondary STAB but is very rarely used, I think using Draco Meteor here might be more worth while but so far it's done fine as is. I have been considering running Hydro Pump over Surf but one miss could ruin my sweep so I haven't decided if the power is worth the risk as Surf already has such massive attacking power.


Threat list soon!
 
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Scizor: Magnezone is my primary solution to Scizor but if Magnezone is out of the picture for what ever reason I can always fall back on Heatran to take him out.
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Salamence: This can be tricky I usually will go to Scizor to take the Draco Meteor or Outrage. I then will usually Bullet Punch to prevent being hit by Fire Blast. Without Scizor I can revenge kill it with Latias no problem.
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Heatran: Latias is my first choice as they are usually going to attack with Fire Blast and Latias can sponge the attack. There have been cases where I had to use Kingdra instead but either scenario handles Heatran easily.
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Gyarados: Gyarados will always either DD or spam Waterfall giving me a free switch to Latias who out speeds and OHKO's a +1 Gyarados.
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Rotom-A: Rotom-H I will usually switch to Heatran but Latias is my first choice when it comes to the Rotoms. Then I have Scizor for the formes that aren't H. The sub versions can be difficult to handle and could probably sweep me if used properly.
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Latias: Scizor is my answer to Latias, I use specially defensive Scizor just for this purpose and he does the job quite well. Scizor makes short work of any Latias not carrying HP Fire. If I cannot use Scizor to deal with her then I can revenge kill her with my own Latias once I determine it's set.
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Tyranitar: This is another Pokemon that I have to rely on Scizor to deal with. Without Scizor I would have to go to Salamence and risk getting hit by Stone Edge but I haven't had to resort to this as of yet.
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Metagross: Lead Metagross can be handled by Heatran but Agiligross is a pretty big problem. I can do little to stop it from sweeping me if it gets to set up.
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Lucario: He usually doesn't get many opportunities to set up and I can revenge kill him through Latias or Heatran.
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Infernape: Infernape can usually get a KO on me if it's Lead Endeavor but I don't have trouble with the standard MixApe as it can't do anything against Latias and I reserve the option to revenge kill with Heatran if I need to.
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Jirachi: Heatran is great for dealing Jirachi especially since it is rarely seen as anything but a lead. If it was however a CM variant I suppose I could trick scarf on to it.
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Gengar: He isn't much of a threat with Scizor around but MysticGar can cause me to lose Scizor but if I discover that is the set it's running I can revenge kill it with Latias or Heatran.


Still in progress
 
Okay this team is good and doesn't deserve to be unreplied to.
So here I am, I will try and rate it. By the way, the reason you have so few rates is that this team is watertight.

Okay, first issue is Latias. Any team with a bulky Scizor or Tyranitar ( a fair few ) has a decent chance of trapping and killing Latias at SOME stage in the match. This is trouble, not just for the obvious fronts like Dragon Dance Gyarados and such, but also for a threat I feel your team has alot of trouble with. Dragon Pulse Sub-Heatran looks good to cause your team real havoc. It can set up on Scizor, or from forcing a Magnezone switch, then proceed to reek havoc, outspeeding and OHKOing Magnezone and Scizor and Kingdra meanwhile using it's sub to deal some real damage to Salamence or Latias as they try and kill it, once again, if it carries D.Pulse, trouble trouble. Your Heatran can switch in to Fire Blast but, from behind said sub, it is horribly weak to earth power. You can do clever switches around it but what matters is, as long as it always uses the obvious move, one of your pokemon will have to attack it eventually, and you will lose a pokemon.

How do you combat this threat ? Your threat list over simplifies Heatran as a threat. Even if you don;t lose Latias to a pursuiter early in the match, and even if Heatran doesn't carry D.Pulse, Explosion still OHKOes all your dragons, while the steels all fear Fire Blast.


Sorry to go all overboard about this Heatran, it's just the main issue I saw that you didn't really explain in the RMT.

Hope you get some more rates now too!
 
First. This is a good well balanced team that I think can kill almost all threats. But I think that when youre Latias is gone you have a really big problem against setting up pokes like DD mence and Gyara. If it gets up one DD it can outspeed and OHKO all your other pokemon before they even can make a move (Exception for scizor who can use BP). So you got to make sure Latias stays alive otherwise youre dependant on that it doesn't get it up or explosion from Magnezone or Heatran

I would maybe drop one of your 3 dragons since it carries 3 dragon weaknesses with it and 2 ice. Magnezone and Heatran both have ground weaknesses. Why not put a Rotom Application in your team. It covers the ground weakness. Takes neutral hits from dragon and Ice and it is can take some hits. only downside is that you will have 2 pokemon that can be trapped and killed with Persuit. So see it for yourself. Good luck with the team
 
Okay this team is good and doesn't deserve to be unreplied to.
So here I am, I will try and rate it. By the way, the reason you have so few rates is that this team is watertight.

Okay, first issue is Latias. Any team with a bulky Scizor or Tyranitar ( a fair few ) has a decent chance of trapping and killing Latias at SOME stage in the match. This is trouble, not just for the obvious fronts like Dragon Dance Gyarados and such, but also for a threat I feel your team has alot of trouble with. Dragon Pulse Sub-Heatran looks good to cause your team real havoc. It can set up on Scizor, or from forcing a Magnezone switch, then proceed to reek havoc, outspeeding and OHKOing Magnezone and Scizor and Kingdra meanwhile using it's sub to deal some real damage to Salamence or Latias as they try and kill it, once again, if it carries D.Pulse, trouble trouble. Your Heatran can switch in to Fire Blast but, from behind said sub, it is horribly weak to earth power. You can do clever switches around it but what matters is, as long as it always uses the obvious move, one of your pokemon will have to attack it eventually, and you will lose a pokemon.

How do you combat this threat ? Your threat list over simplifies Heatran as a threat. Even if you don;t lose Latias to a pursuiter early in the match, and even if Heatran doesn't carry D.Pulse, Explosion still OHKOes all your dragons, while the steels all fear Fire Blast.


Sorry to go all overboard about this Heatran, it's just the main issue I saw that you didn't really explain in the RMT.

Hope you get some more rates now too!

Thanks for finally giving me a response :P

I have not seen the Heatran you describe but obviously with such a team any Pokemon with a Dragon/Fire attacking combination can cause trouble. Dragon Dance Gyarados is probably the biggest threat to this team but in most cases he shows up early game and I am able to switch my Latias in as they DD. With no Latias however I could be swept after just one DD! I really haven't thought of a sure-fire way of solving this without making any drastic changes to my team. The main issue that I need to solve is being less Latias dependent, her job gets stretched a little too far at times.
 
I agree about the idea of relying less on a choice scarfer, especially a pursuable choice scarfer (I'm such a hypocrite lol).

I think Latias would appreciate being replaced with a fairly bulky pokemon, capable of taking out Gyarados and bulky fire types.

If you were prepared to stomach the idea, Vaporeon Could be ideal, with Hp Electric or Roar ( I recommend roar as long as SR is up ) it shuts down Gyarados easily, as well as dealing with any Heatrans and Infernape who could lay waste to the pre-vaporepon team once Latias was dead. I am unsure just how useful wishpassing is for this team, but I think it certainly has it merits, giving the chance to try a Kingdra scouting sweep, to show up any counters, which you can they play and kill, then heal Kingdra for a second round. I know of almost no teams that can survive two rain dance kingdra sweeps like that.

I recommend this set

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Bold
188 Hp / 252 Def / 70 SpD
-Surf
-Roar / Hidden Power Electric
-Wish
-Protect

I know this set seems awfully defensive for such a team, so I will offer this only as a plausible solution.

Good Luck
 
I'll test it but I am afraid that sacrificing my primary revenge killer will cause other issues to arise. My main concern in putting Vaporeon in over Latias is how susceptible I will be to Zapdos.
 
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