np: UU - The Boys Are Back in Town

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Nah... Crobat has good chances of becoming OU now, so don't count on Crobat showing up.
Besides, there's Super Fang now, so he's even more annoying even with Rhyperior around. Being a counter/check to Gallade, Froslass and Alakazam also gives Crobat the "obviously broken for UU" feeling.

Shaymin and Yanmega will never show up again. I hope.
Staraptor and Abomasnow can be retested. Not that i want to, but i have a feeling someone will have this brilliant idea on Smogon server...
 
Hold on. You want Staraptor and Crobat back just because Rhyperior turned up? Seriously?
Click to expand...

No, I don't want to them come back, but if they were suggested for retesting I'd be OK with it.

Shaymin, Yanmega, and Abomasnow can rot in hell aka BL.
 
i started using a special offensive team that destroys this physically defensive metagame. seriously, i can't believe how much wins i'm getting with a special heavy offense team.
 
I just battled 031ap twice and we both used Blastoise. I'm actually really surprised at how effective Blastoise is at spinning. Yawn + Rapid Spin pretty much guaranteed that Blastoise got the spin off and that was pretty annoying! I'm also using Scyther along with Blastoise and due to Blastoise's ability to keep SR off the field Scyther is doing really well at spamming U-turn. Umbreon is still a great Pokemon and never really fails to do its job. I've been experimenting with Shadow Sneak + Gunk Shot Muk to KO Gallade but of course I haven't actually seen any Gallade (I think this was brought up earlier in the thread) so I can't really tell how effective it is.

I also tried a really strange experiment yesterday involving using Life Orb on really defensive Pokemon (Steelix, Sandslash) to keep an offensive momentum and it did really well until I eventually lost due to a last Pokemon crit. I was using Earthquake / Aqua Tail / Explosion / SR with a lot of Attack EVs to 2HKO defensive Rhyperior and Venusaur. +2 Adamant LO Earthquake from Sandslash also always OHKOs max HP / Def Spiritomb (~88% min) that might try to switch in and spinblock / WoW.
 
What about Meganium? It has any use in UU?
I know it is largely outclassed by Venusaur... still, is there any good use for it?
Poor Meganium, my favorite poke...

Things/moves Meganium can do that Venusaur can't:

-Dual Screens
-Counter
-Flail
-Aromatherapy
-Ancientpower(...what?)


I'm using now this novelty set...

Meganium@Leftovers

Substitute
Toxic
Leech Seed
Protect

Novelty is this set's middle name lol. Venusaur can do the exact same thing(as any grass not named Cradily), but Meganium here is the one who has the best stat distribution for the set in UU(since it has no attack, Meganium should concentrate on defenses, right? And it has the best mixed defensive stats of all UU grasses together with a semi good speed)


Is there any hope for our good friend Meganium here?
 
I actually forgot about meganium, I've needed something to take mixed hits (Earthquakes, Surfs, Leaf Storms/Energy Balls). Venusaur isn't quite cutting it for some reason, probably because my team is horribly weak to Psychic already.

I'll try it!


I think I still like Leafeon better....
 
M BLADE said:
What about Meganium? It has any use in UU?
I know it is largely outclassed by Venusaur... still, is there any good use for it?
Poor Meganium, my favorite poke...

Things/moves Meganium can do that Venusaur can't:

-Dual Screens
-Counter
-Flail
-Aromatherapy
-Ancientpower(...what?)


I'm using now this novelty set...

Meganium@Leftovers

Substitute
Toxic
Leech Seed
Protect

Novelty is this set's middle name lol. Venusaur can do the exact same thing(as any grass not named Cradily), but Meganium here is the one who has the best stat distribution for the set in UU(since it has no attack, Meganium should concentrate on defenses, right? And it has the best mixed defensive stats of all UU grasses together with a semi good speed)


Is there any hope for our good friend Meganium here?
Click to expand...



Well I've been using meganium on a somewhat successfull team (currently like #21 or something iirc) to terrific success.

I started using it mostly because of stupid extrasensory raikou, and a lack of a decent switch in to donphan(ground resist ftw) but it then escalated to some MOLTRES PROBLEMS (seriously am I the only person who has problems with it????) so i started using ancient power (though theoretically i guess i could have used hp rock on venu but i was already physical and didn't bother since sleep powder seemed more usefull) along with synthesis+leaf storm and EQ.

It works extremely nicely and I don't regret using it; at least until extrasensory raikou wears down.
 
I'm using Meganium as well on my latest balanced team. For offense, Venusaur or Leafeon are better, but if you're looking for grass typing and overall defenses, Meganium is great. He makes a great switch into Donphan with the EQ resist that Venusaur lacks, and unlike Leafeon, it can take an HP Ice or Milotic's Surf/Ice Beam much better because of its special defenses.

I've been using:

Timid 252spatk/252spd/4def
@Leftovers
Grass Knot
AncientPower
HP Ice
Synthesis

SpAtk needs to be maxed so Grass Knot does 50-59% to Milotic. AP is for Flying types and HP Ice for other Grass types. I make him as speedy as possible because so many other key pokemon share a base 80 speed: Venusaur, Blaziken, Gallade, Kabutops, and I want to atleast speed tie with them.
 
THB said:
I'm using Meganium as well on my latest balanced team. For offense, Venusaur or Leafeon are better, but if you're looking for grass typing and overall defenses, Meganium is great. He makes a great switch into Donphan with the EQ resist that Venusaur lacks, and unlike Leafeon, it can take an HP Ice or Milotic's Surf/Ice Beam much better because of its special defenses.

I've been using:

Timid 252spatk/252spd/4def
@Leftovers
Grass Knot
AncientPower
HP Ice
Synthesis

SpAtk needs to be maxed so Grass Knot does 50-59% to Milotic. AP is for Flying types and HP Ice for other Grass types. I make him as speedy as possible because so many other key pokemon share a base 80 speed: Venusaur, Blaziken, Gallade, Kabutops, and I want to atleast speed tie with them.
Click to expand...
Why AP when HP Ice hits all the same Flying types for the same damage (except Moltres who outpseeds and OHKOs anyway), it's redundant. Leech Seed or Aromatherapy would be better in that slot.
 
I think Ancientpower is more for the Fire and Bug coverage than for Flying. But if anything, that set is setup bait for the two Fighters it speed ties with. That's the main problem with Meganium, it is difficult to run a set with a decent offensive output that isn't outclassed by another Grass type.

And yeah, Moltres isn't broken. Very potent, but a little too slow and requires some support to work to its full potential. And ironically it is setup bait for Raikou also.
 
I don't know how much "set-up bait" Moltres is to Raikou considering it's taking like 70% from a Fire Blast on its switch in and that is the move that Moltres is most often spamming at the beginning of the game. It can come in on HP Grass or Air Slash sure, but it's taking an assload from Fire Blast.
 
But that's like saying Milotic isn't setup bait for Raikou because it can hit it with a LO Hydro Pump or cripple with Toxic on the switch. In a comfortable 1v1 situation, neither can do much to stop Raikou setting up, regardless of how easy it is for Raikou to switch in directly, which is the main point.
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
But that's like saying Milotic isn't setup bait for Raikou because it can hit it with a LO Hydro Pump or cripple with Toxic on the switch. In a comfortable 1v1 situation, neither can do much to stop Raikou setting up, regardless of how easy it is for Raikou to switch in directly, which is the main point.
Click to expand...
I don't think Set Up bait means what you think it means. If it can 2HKO the set-upper, it's not set-up bait, with the exception of choice locked into a resistance or immunity.

Sure, Raikou can check Moltres once, but it can't set up or hard counter him.
 
d2m said:
I don't think Set Up bait means what you think it means. If it can 2HKO the set-upper, it's not set-up bait, with the exception of choice locked into a resistance or immunity.

Sure, Raikou can check Moltres once, but it can't set up or hard counter him.
Click to expand...

thats not what he means. Moltres isn't stoping raikou from sweeping and raikou can get a cm in its face. You dont have to switch something directly into an attack to make another pokemon set up bait. To switch a raikou into a fire blast is more or less suicide because of the priority running around everywhere, but you can come in after a ko or bait an air slash and get raikou in just fine and it is at that point that moltress becomes set up bait.
 
I think the definition of "Set-up Bait" is that "This pokemon being in play is bait for other Pokemon to come in and set-up on it" which means that if Moltres is claiming the title of setup bait, Pokemon need to be able to come in on it for pretty much free and start setting up for a sweep. Raikou does no such thing to Moltres.
 
I sorta just want to rave about Umbreon right now. It is literally, hands down, the most consistent Pokemon I have ever used. With Synchronize and Heal Bell you are able to use the opponent's status attempts against them (especially handy when Raikou's Thunderbolt paralyzes you!) and you don't have to worry excessively if one of your Pokemon gets paralyzed because, chances are, Umbreon will be able to switch in and use Heal Bell. It is also extremely effective at passing Wish. Payback breaking Raikou subs without any investment at all is amazing and the ability to take on even Nasty Plot Mismagius is another boost. As long as you pair Umbreon with something like Power Whip Venusaur or Spiritomb to take on Gallade you should be in pretty good shape. It's a simple set, but it always does its job. I'm Gwyneth in the first log and gachoomba in the second. I replaced the opponents' names with "Opponent" to protect their identities and teams!

Umbreon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Payback
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

I've literally run into scenarios where I'm down 5-3 but Umbreon is able to keep my remaining Pokemon alive long enough to outstall the opposition. I have a few logs to illustrate my point. (Please keep in mind that my teams in these logs aren't very good and I was simply testing out a few Pokemon!)

Also I played horribly in the first half of this log.
Code: 
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Opponent sent out Cloyster (lvl 100 Cloyster ?).
Gwyneth sent out Kabutops (lvl 100 Kabutops ?).
Opponent switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Kabutops used Stone Edge.
It's not very effective...
Hitmontop lost 27% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
Kabutops used Toxic.
Hitmontop was badly poisoned!
Hitmontop used Close Combat.
It's super effective!
Kabutops lost 100% of its health.
Kabutops hung on using its Focus Sash!
Hitmontop's defence was lowered.
Hitmontop's special defence was lowered.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop is hurt by poison!
Hitmontop lost 6% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Rotom (lvl 100 Rotom).
Hitmontop used Mach Punch.
It doesn't affect Rotom...
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop is hurt by poison!
Hitmontop lost 12% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Raikou (lvl 100 Raikou).
Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Rotom used Thunderbolt.
It's not very effective...
Raikou lost 22% of its health.
---
missing-nin has entered the room.
Gwyneth switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Raikou used Shadow Ball.
It's not very effective...
Umbreon lost 9% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Cloyster (lvl 100 Cloyster ?).
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 3% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Kabutops (lvl 100 Kabutops ?).
Cloyster used Rock Blast.
Kabutops lost 0% of its health.
Gwyneth's Kabutops fainted.
A critical hit!
Hit 5 time(s)!
---
Gwyneth switched in Scyther (lvl 100 Scyther ?).
Scyther used U-turn.
Cloyster lost 30% of its health.
Gwyneth switched in Rotom (lvl 100 Rotom).
Cloyster used Rock Blast.
Rotom lost 10% of its health.
A critical hit!
Rotom lost 20% of its health.
Rotom lost 11% of its health.
Rotom lost 11% of its health.
Rotom lost 11% of its health.
Hit 5 time(s)!
---
Opponent switched in Rhyperior (lvl 100 Rhyperior ?).
Rotom used Thunderbolt.
It doesn't affect Rhyperior...
---
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Rhyperior used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
---
Opponent switched in Gardevoir (lvl 100 Gardevoir ?).
Gardevoir traced Blastoise's Torrent!
Blastoise used Rapid Spin.
Blastoise blew away the pointed stones!
Gardevoir lost 6% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Rotom (lvl 100 Rotom).
Gardevoir used Trick.
Gardevoir obtained Choice Scarf!
Rotom obtained Choice Specs!
---
Opponent switched in Swellow (lvl 100 Swellow ?).
Rotom used Shadow Ball.
It doesn't affect Swellow...
Swellow was burned!
---
Swellow used Pursuit.
It's super effective!
Rotom lost 36% of its health.
Gwyneth's Rotom fainted.
Swellow was hurt by its burn!
Swellow lost 12% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Opponent switched in Cloyster (lvl 100 Cloyster ?).
Blastoise used Ice Beam.
It's not very effective...
Cloyster lost 10% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Surf.
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
Cloyster lost 58% of its health.
Cloyster used Spikes.
Spikes were scattered around the foe's team!
---
Opponent switched in Raikou (lvl 100 Raikou).
Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Blastoise used Rapid Spin.
Blastoise blew away the spikes!
Raikou lost 5% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 35% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Swellow (lvl 100 Swellow ?).
Umbreon used Payback.
Swellow lost 46% of its health.
Swellow was hurt by its burn!
Swellow lost 12% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Protect.
Umbreon protected itself!
Swellow used Facade.
Umbreon protected itself!
Swellow was hurt by its burn!
Swellow lost 12% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Swellow used Facade.
Blastoise lost 56% of its health.
Swellow was hurt by its burn!
Swellow lost 12% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Muk (lvl 100 Muk ?).
Swellow used Facade.
Muk lost 66% of its health.
Swellow was hurt by its burn!
Swellow lost 5% of its health.
Opponent's Swellow fainted.
Muk's leftovers restored its health a little!
Muk restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Cloyster (lvl 100 Cloyster ?).
Muk used Shadow Sneak.
A critical hit!
Cloyster lost 1% of its health.
Opponent's Cloyster fainted.
Muk's leftovers restored its health a little!
Muk restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Gardevoir (lvl 100 Gardevoir ?).
Gardevoir traced Muk's Sticky Hold!
Gardevoir used Psychic.
It's super effective!
Muk lost 46% of its health.
Gwyneth's Muk fainted.
---
Gwyneth switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Opponent switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop is hurt by poison!
Hitmontop lost 6% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Raikou (lvl 100 Raikou).
Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
The wish came true!
Blastoise restored 50% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 0% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 38% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 36% of its health.
Umbreon is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Raikou is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Protect.
Umbreon protected itself!
Raikou is paralysed! It can't move!
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 50% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 37% of its health.
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Gardevoir (lvl 100 Gardevoir ?).
Gardevoir traced Umbreon's Synchronize!
Umbreon is paralysed! It can't move!
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 47% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Scyther (lvl 100 Scyther ?).
Gardevoir used Trick.
Gardevoir obtained Choice Band!
Scyther obtained Choice Scarf!
---
Opponent switched in Rhyperior (lvl 100 Rhyperior ?).
Scyther used U-turn.
Rhyperior lost 21% of its health.
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Gardevoir (lvl 100 Gardevoir ?).
Gardevoir traced Blastoise's Torrent!
Blastoise used Surf.
Gardevoir lost 30% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Gardevoir used Psychic.
It doesn't affect Umbreon...
---
Opponent switched in Rhyperior (lvl 100 Rhyperior ?).
Umbreon is paralysed! It can't move!
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Rhyperior used Earthquake.
Blastoise lost 36% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Surf.
It's super effective!
Rhyperior lost 76% of its health.
Rhyperior used Earthquake.
Blastoise lost 38% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Gardevoir (lvl 100 Gardevoir ?).
Gardevoir traced Blastoise's Torrent!
Blastoise used Surf.
Gardevoir lost 33% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
---
Gardevoir used Psychic.
Blastoise lost 41% of its health.
Blastoise used Rest.
Blastoise fell asleep!
Blastoise restored 96% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Rhyperior (lvl 100 Rhyperior ?).
Gwyneth switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Rhyperior used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Umbreon used Heal Bell.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Rhyperior used Roar.
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blastoise.
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Rapid Spin.
Blastoise blew away the pointed stones!
It's not very effective...
Rhyperior lost 1% of its health.
Rhyperior used Earthquake.
Blastoise lost 36% of its health.
The wish came true!
Blastoise restored 43% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Blastoise used Surf.
Hitmontop lost 30% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop is hurt by poison!
Hitmontop lost 6% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Surf.
Hitmontop lost 28% of its health.
Hitmontop used Close Combat.
A critical hit!
Blastoise lost 75% of its health.
Hitmontop's defence was lowered.
Hitmontop's special defence was lowered.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop is hurt by poison!
Hitmontop lost 12% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Rest.
Blastoise fell asleep!
Blastoise restored 69% of its health.
Hitmontop used Close Combat.
Blastoise lost 39% of its health.
Hitmontop's defence was lowered.
Hitmontop's special defence was lowered.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop is hurt by poison!
Hitmontop lost 16% of its health.
Opponent's Hitmontop fainted.
---
Opponent switched in Raikou (lvl 100 Raikou).
Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Gwyneth switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 36% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Rhyperior (lvl 100 Rhyperior ?).
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Heal Bell.
Rhyperior used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 23% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Rhyperior used Roar.
Gwyneth switched in Scyther (lvl 100 Scyther ?).
Pointed stones dug into Scyther.
Scyther lost 50% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Scyther used U-turn.
Rhyperior lost 22% of its health.
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blastoise.
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Rhyperior used Crunch.
Blastoise lost 19% of its health.
The wish came true!
Blastoise restored 50% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Rapid Spin.
Blastoise blew away the pointed stones!
It's not very effective...
Rhyperior lost 1% of its health.
Rhyperior used Roar.
Gwyneth switched in Scyther (lvl 100 Scyther ?).
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Scyther used U-turn.
Rhyperior lost 20% of its health.
Gwyneth switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Rhyperior used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Rhyperior's leftovers restored its health a little!
Rhyperior restored 6% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Surf.
It's super effective!
Rhyperior lost 46% of its health.
Opponent's Rhyperior fainted.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 2% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Raikou (lvl 100 Raikou).
Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Gwyneth switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Umbreon.
Umbreon lost 12% of its health.
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 34% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 37% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Protect.
Umbreon protected itself!
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon protected itself!
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 50% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 35% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Protect.
Umbreon protected itself!
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon protected itself!
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 44% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 35% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Payback.
Raikou lost 15% of its health.
Raikou is paralysed! It can't move!
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 29% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Payback.
Raikou lost 16% of its health.
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 35% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 36% of its health.
Umbreon is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 38% of its health.
Umbreon used Heal Bell.
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 50% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon lost 35% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Protect.
Umbreon protected itself!
Raikou used Thunderbolt.
Umbreon protected itself!
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 50% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Payback.
Raikou lost 16% of its health.
Raikou is paralysed! It can't move!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Payback.
Raikou lost 16% of its health.
Raikou is paralysed! It can't move!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Payback.
Raikou lost 9% of its health.
Opponent's Raikou fainted.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 1% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Gardevoir (lvl 100 Gardevoir ?).
Gardevoir traced Umbreon's Synchronize!
Gwyneth: great game!
Gardevoir used Focus Blast.
It's super effective!
Umbreon lost 40% of its health.
Umbreon used Payback.
It's super effective!
Gardevoir lost 30% of its health.
Opponent's Gardevoir fainted.
Gwyneth wins!
Opponent: gg
missing-nin has left the room.
Opponent has left the room.

Code: 
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Opponent sent out Purugly (lvl 100 Purugly ?).
gachoomba sent out Shuckle (lvl 100 Shuckle ?).
Purugly used Taunt.
Shuckle fell for the taunt!
Shuckle used Knock Off.
Purugly lost 2% of its health.
Shuckle knocked off foe Purugly's Focus Sash!
---
gachoomba switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Hitmontop's intimidate cut Purugly's attack!
Purugly used Super Fang.
Hitmontop lost 50% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
Purugly used Taunt.
Hitmontop fell for the taunt!
Hitmontop used Foresight.
Hitmontop can't use Foresight after the taunt!
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
Purugly used U-turn.
It's not very effective...
Hitmontop lost 7% of its health.
Opponent switched in Mismagius (lvl 100 Mismagius ?).
Hitmontop used Close Combat.
It doesn't affect Mismagius...
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Honchkrow (lvl 100 Honchkrow ?).
Mismagius used Trick.
Mismagius obtained Life Orb!
Honchkrow obtained Choice Specs!
---
Mismagius used Hidden Power.
Honchkrow lost 52% of its health.
Mismagius lost 10% of its health.
Honchkrow used Dark Pulse.
It's super effective!
Mismagius lost 90% of its health.
Opponent's Mismagius fainted.
---
Opponent switched in Pinsir (lvl 100 Pinsir ?).
gachoomba switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Pinsir used Stone Edge.
It's not very effective...
Hitmontop lost 22% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Shuckle (lvl 100 Shuckle ?).
Pinsir used Stone Edge.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Shuckle lost 89% of its health.
Shuckle's leftovers restored its health a little!
Shuckle restored 6% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Venusaur (lvl 100 Venusaur ?).
Pinsir used Stone Edge.
Venusaur lost 50% of its health.
Venusaur's leftovers restored its health a little!
Venusaur restored 6% of its health.
---
Pinsir used Stone Edge.
Venusaur lost 50% of its health.
Venusaur used Synthesis.
Venusaur restored 50% of its health.
Venusaur's leftovers restored its health a little!
Venusaur restored 6% of its health.
---
Pinsir used Stone Edge.
Venusaur lost 49% of its health.
Venusaur used Synthesis.
Venusaur restored 50% of its health.
Venusaur's leftovers restored its health a little!
Venusaur restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Purugly (lvl 100 Purugly ?).
Venusaur used Synthesis.
Venusaur restored 30% of its health.
---
Purugly used Taunt.
Venusaur fell for the taunt!
Venusaur used Power Whip.
Purugly lost 67% of its health.
---
Purugly used Super Fang.
Venusaur lost 50% of its health.
Venusaur used Sludge Bomb.
Purugly lost 31% of its health.
Opponent's Purugly fainted.
Venusaur's leftovers restored its health a little!
Venusaur restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Venusaur's attack!
gachoomba switched in Shuckle (lvl 100 Shuckle ?).
Arcanine used Agility.
Arcanine's speed was sharply raised.
Shuckle's leftovers restored its health a little!
Shuckle restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Dragon Pulse.
Shuckle lost 22% of its health.
Arcanine lost 10% of its health.
Shuckle used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Shuckle's leftovers restored its health a little!
Shuckle restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Dragon Pulse.
Shuckle lost 8% of its health.
gachoomba's Shuckle fainted.
Arcanine lost 10% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Arcanine used Flamethrower.
Umbreon lost 30% of its health.
Arcanine lost 10% of its health.
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Flamethrower.
Umbreon lost 33% of its health.
Arcanine lost 10% of its health.
Umbreon used Payback.
Arcanine lost 32% of its health.
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 50% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Morning Sun.
Arcanine restored 50% of its health.
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 1% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blastoise.
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Umbreon used Payback.
A critical hit!
Blastoise lost 34% of its health.
The wish came true!
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Rapid Spin.
Blastoise blew away the pointed stones!
Umbreon lost 3% of its health.
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 3% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Hitmontop's intimidate cut Blastoise's attack!
Blastoise used Toxic.
Hitmontop was badly poisoned!
The wish came true!
Hitmontop restored 50% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 4% of its health.
Hitmontop is hurt by poison!
Hitmontop lost 6% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Blastoise used Surf.
Umbreon lost 16% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Toxic.
Umbreon was badly poisoned!
Blastoise was poisoned!
Umbreon used Heal Bell.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Blastoise is hurt by poison!
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
---
Blastoise used Toxic.
Umbreon was badly poisoned!
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Blastoise is hurt by poison!
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 4% of its health.
Umbreon is hurt by poison!
Umbreon lost 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Pinsir (lvl 100 Pinsir ?).
gachoomba switched in Venusaur (lvl 100 Venusaur ?).
The wish came true!
Venusaur restored 44% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Pinsir used Close Combat.
Hitmontop lost 52% of its health.
Pinsir's defence was lowered.
Pinsir's special defence was lowered.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Venusaur (lvl 100 Venusaur ?).
Pinsir used Close Combat.
It's not very effective...
Venusaur lost 32% of its health.
Pinsir's defence was lowered.
Pinsir's special defence was lowered.
Venusaur's leftovers restored its health a little!
Venusaur restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Venusaur's attack!
Venusaur used Sludge Bomb.
Arcanine lost 45% of its health.
Venusaur's leftovers restored its health a little!
Venusaur restored 6% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Slowking (lvl 100 Slowking ?).
Arcanine used Morning Sun.
Arcanine restored 50% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Torterra (lvl 100 Torterra ?).
Slowking used Surf.
Torterra lost 40% of its health.
Torterra's leftovers restored its health a little!
Torterra restored 6% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Venusaur (lvl 100 Venusaur ?).
Torterra used Earthquake.
Venusaur lost 66% of its health.
Venusaur's leftovers restored its health a little!
Venusaur restored 6% of its health.
Torterra's leftovers restored its health a little!
Torterra restored 6% of its health.
---
Venusaur used Sludge Bomb.
Torterra lost 43% of its health.
Torterra used Earthquake.
Venusaur lost 20% of its health.
gachoomba's Venusaur fainted.
Torterra's leftovers restored its health a little!
Torterra restored 6% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Honchkrow (lvl 100 Honchkrow ?).
Honchkrow used Dark Pulse.
Torterra lost 35% of its health.
Opponent's Torterra fainted.
---
Opponent switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Honchkrow's attack!
Arcanine used Flamethrower.
Honchkrow lost 48% of its health.
gachoomba's Honchkrow fainted.
Arcanine lost 10% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Slowking (lvl 100 Slowking ?).
Opponent switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Slowking used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Blastoise is hurt by poison!
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Blastoise used Toxic.
But it failed!
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Blastoise is hurt by poison!
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
Umbreon is hurt by poison!
Umbreon lost 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Pinsir (lvl 100 Pinsir ?).
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
Umbreon is hurt by poison!
Umbreon lost 12% of its health.
---
Umbreon used Protect.
Umbreon protected itself!
Pinsir used X-Scissor.
Umbreon protected itself!
The wish came true!
Umbreon restored 12% of its health.
Umbreon is hurt by poison!
Umbreon lost 18% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Umbreon's attack!
gachoomba switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Hitmontop's intimidate cut Arcanine's attack!
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Pinsir (lvl 100 Pinsir ?).
gachoomba switched in Slowking (lvl 100 Slowking ?).
---
Pinsir used Return.
Slowking lost 31% of its health.
Slowking used Thunder Wave.
Pinsir is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Slowking's leftovers restored its health a little!
Slowking restored 6% of its health.
---
Pinsir used Return.
Slowking lost 33% of its health.
Slowking used Psychic.
Pinsir lost 52% of its health.
Slowking's leftovers restored its health a little!
Slowking restored 6% of its health.
---
Pinsir used Return.
Slowking lost 33% of its health.
Slowking used Slack Off.
Slowking restored 50% of its health.
Slowking's leftovers restored its health a little!
Slowking restored 6% of its health.
---
Pinsir used Return.
Slowking lost 36% of its health.
Slowking used Slack Off.
Slowking restored 50% of its health.
Slowking's leftovers restored its health a little!
Slowking restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Slowking's attack!
Slowking used Psychic.
Arcanine lost 38% of its health.
Slowking's leftovers restored its health a little!
Slowking restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Slowking used Surf.
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
Blastoise lost 27% of its health.
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Blastoise is hurt by poison!
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Slowking's leftovers restored its health a little!
Slowking restored 4% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Umbreon (lvl 100 Umbreon ?).
Blastoise used Toxic.
But it failed!
Blastoise's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blastoise restored 6% of its health.
Blastoise is hurt by poison!
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
Umbreon is hurt by poison!
Umbreon lost 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Pinsir (lvl 100 Pinsir ?).
Umbreon used Wish.
Umbreon made a wish!
Umbreon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Umbreon restored 6% of its health.
Umbreon is hurt by poison!
Umbreon lost 12% of its health.
---
gachoomba switched in Hitmontop (lvl 100 Hitmontop ?).
Pinsir used X-Scissor.
It's not very effective...
Hitmontop lost 25% of its health.
The wish came true!
Hitmontop restored 50% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
Hitmontop used Close Combat.
It's not very effective...
Pinsir lost 35% of its health.
Hitmontop's defence was lowered.
Hitmontop's special defence was lowered.
Pinsir used X-Scissor.
It's not very effective...
Hitmontop lost 38% of its health.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
Hitmontop used Close Combat.
It's not very effective...
Pinsir lost 13% of its health.
Opponent's Pinsir fainted.
Hitmontop's defence was lowered.
Hitmontop's special defence was lowered.
Hitmontop's leftovers restored its health a little!
Hitmontop restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Hitmontop's attack!
gachoomba switched in Slowking (lvl 100 Slowking ?).
Arcanine used Morning Sun.
Arcanine restored 50% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Dragon Pulse.
Slowking lost 25% of its health.
Arcanine lost 10% of its health.
Slowking used Thunder Wave.
Arcanine is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Slowking's leftovers restored its health a little!
Slowking restored 6% of its health.
---
Slowking used Surf.
It's super effective!
Arcanine lost 76% of its health.
Opponent's Arcanine fainted.
Slowking's leftovers restored its health a little!
Slowking restored 6% of its health.
---
Opponent switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ?).
Blastoise used Surf.
It's not very effective...
Slowking lost 13% of its health.
Slowking used Psychic.
Blastoise lost 12% of its health.
Opponent's Blastoise fainted.
gachoomba wins!
gachoomba: gg
 
LonelyNess said:
I think the definition of "Set-up Bait" is that "This pokemon being in play is bait for other Pokemon to come in and set-up on it" which means that if Moltres is claiming the title of setup bait, Pokemon need to be able to come in on it for pretty much free and start setting up for a sweep. Raikou does no such thing to Moltres.
Click to expand...

That makes sense as a proper definition, but I wasn't intent on arguing semantics. For example, I have heard a lot of people (including respected members) in the past describing Dugtrio as set-up bait for many Pokemon, which is obviously nonsense if going by that definition. So it is clear that there is as yet no concrete definition of 'set-up bait' that Smogon abides by.

@ acoustik: don't forget that sometimes Unbreon is better off with the paralysis when facing a slower opponent. I am referring to the end of the first log where you used Heal Bell on the second paralysis. Luckily you were facing a Specs Raikou instead of SubCM with Leftovers, otherwise you would have run out of Payback PP before you could kill it. In fact, you would lose the ability to break Subs this way and Raikou would ironically be able to set up on you with ease, albeit losing its sweeping potential against most other things.

I actually think that you should minimize the speed on that set, as you don't have any moves that benefit from outrunning anything.
 
I recommend Curse for Umbreon. Protect is great and all for stalling but I prefer Curse to compliment Umbreon's staying power. If not Curse than Taunt to prevent anything any everything from setting up.
 
I've recently tried out a Hitmontop lead to beat the three leads that you always hear about (Ambipom, Alakazam, and Froslass), and it worked! It cannot beat Spiritomb, but Spiritomb cannot beat it either.

Hitmontop @ Focus Sash (survive a Psychic or some other random attack)
Technician.
Trait: Adamant (but Jolly allows you not to take damage from Kabutops)

Protect (I don't know how many Ambipoms I've defeated thanks to this move)
Bullet Punch (hits Froslass, does good damage to most other leads like Ala.)
Close Combat (For Cloyster, Kabutops, Regirock, and others after you beat the lead.)
Rapid Spin (they won't expect this as the fourth move.)
 
Yeah... there comes a time when having staying power akin to Luvdisk comes back to bite you in the butt. Alakazam is one of these. Sereously, it can't even utilise it's own resistances! (unless the Alakazams I've fought were using a bad spread...)

And if it Encores, you've got it down enough to kill it with CC. If it Reflects, then 2 CCs and a BP SHOULD do it. Key word is "should", most Ala's went on the attack.
 
Since you can take down pretty much any opposing lead in two hits, often one hit, wouldn't a Choice Scarf be a better option? Hitmonchan also might be a better choice; while it hits slightly less hard with Bullet Punch (I think; base 105 Atk vs base 95, Hitmonchan has Iron Fist but Hitmontop has Technician), it hits harder with Close Combat and is a bit faster. Also, Thunderpunch hits lead Moltres, which Hitmontop can't do anything to.

Hitmonchan@Choice Scarf
Iron Fist
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

-Bullet Punch
-Close Combat
-Thunderpunch
-Drain Punch (filler)

Should beat pretty much any lead. Uxie is annoying, but TrickScarf versions have to switch out, and Thunderpunch hits pretty hard. Choice Scarf outspeeds Ambipom, allowing you to KO with Close Combat, although the ape does get a Fake Out in.
 
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