-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
np: UU - The Boys Are Back in Town
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
- Status
It's a lead set, not a midgame set.
Yeah, but it's still a far better set than the one you posted. Bullet Punch isn't doing shit to Ambipom, whereas Mach Punch is doing up to 80%. Thunderpunch doesn't OHKO Moltres or Scyther; Stone Edge does, but I'd also consider Rock Slide for the greater accuracy and flinch rate on a Scarf set, also allowing him to fare better against all kinds of Froslass. And Drain Punch will almost never be used when Close Combat is there, you would be far better off with Ice Punch in that slot for coverage purposes.
Not a bad idea, but I think Hariyama would be a better choice for an anti lead, especially since Rapid Spin seems wasted on that lead. The Hariyama moveset would be:
Adamant
252atk/252hp
@Focus Sash
Protect
Close Combat
Payback
Bullet Punch
Hariyama's combo of Payback + Bullet Punch works for both Zam and Froslass. Unlike that Hitmontop who will try Bullet Punch + Bullet Punch, allowing Froslass to switch out on turn 2, a Hariyama can Payback + Bullet Punch for a surprise kill on turn 2.
Payback + Bullet Punch won't beat a bulky Reflect Zam. But hopefully, Alakazam will be baited into using Psychic instead of Reflect on turn 1 because of Hari's Psychic weakness.
It also works nicely against Scarfed leads like Moltres, Typhlosion, and Uxie as long as you Protect on turn 1 to scout their attack or Trick.
Facepalms*
What exactly is the point of 252 Hp Ev's and Focus Sash? Again here is an alternative set... sort of...
Jolly/ Adamant
252atk/ 252spe
@Focus Sash
Protect
Close Combat
Payback/ Stone Edge
Bullet Punch
Actually, Standard Hariyama set would work better than any offensive one. Just use that.
Anyways, what I came here to say is that today I played against CB Kabutops and damn it he hits like a truck. I would argue that CB would be his optimal set atm.
I would second adding curse to the umbreon set. Protect really isn't necessary and setting up umbreon is really easy. With a little practice you become really good at reading when to wish and when to curse.
I've been using the mentioned set but with curse in combination with Nidoqueen and Honchkrow. This scenario happens in more than half my battles:
1. Switch umbreon into status, select wish (I've found choosing wish first allows me the most versatility)
Either two things happen here, my opponent keeps the wall in which allows me to heall off my status or curse (just depends on the wall), or they switch to a fighting type. In this instance they go to their fighting type.
2. Send in Nidoqueen on the fighting attack and lay T-spikes (and thanks to wish I'm recovering any damage I would have taken). What is the most popular poison type out right now? Venusaur.
3. Venusaur switches into Nidoqueen to absorb T-spikes. It is very rare that Saur doesn't use sleep powder first turn so Honchkrow gets a free switch and can start punching holes.
Umbreon creates so many useful situations like these which a number of pokemon can exploit. Her ability to shut down ghost and psychic types is very welcome as well. I found myself relying on Registeel to handle them but he has no recovery and little offensive potential, chansey is just a liability and the other regi's come with their own problems. Umbreon is such a solid pokemon I really do see her jumping in usage over the next few weeks.
I've been using the mentioned set but with curse in combination with Nidoqueen and Honchkrow. This scenario happens in more than half my battles:
1. Switch umbreon into status, select wish (I've found choosing wish first allows me the most versatility)
Either two things happen here, my opponent keeps the wall in which allows me to heall off my status or curse (just depends on the wall), or they switch to a fighting type. In this instance they go to their fighting type.
2. Send in Nidoqueen on the fighting attack and lay T-spikes (and thanks to wish I'm recovering any damage I would have taken). What is the most popular poison type out right now? Venusaur.
3. Venusaur switches into Nidoqueen to absorb T-spikes. It is very rare that Saur doesn't use sleep powder first turn so Honchkrow gets a free switch and can start punching holes.
Umbreon creates so many useful situations like these which a number of pokemon can exploit. Her ability to shut down ghost and psychic types is very welcome as well. I found myself relying on Registeel to handle them but he has no recovery and little offensive potential, chansey is just a liability and the other regi's come with their own problems. Umbreon is such a solid pokemon I really do see her jumping in usage over the next few weeks.
Umbreon also adds a new dimension to duel screens - being able to Mean Look pass. Just set up your screens with Uxie/Alakazam, U-turn/Memento/Switch to Umbreon. Yawn the switchin, Mean Look whatever comes in next. If it can't hurt you, Yawn again then Baton Pass to a sweeper that can potentially tear through a whole team (e.g. Rock Polish/Swords Dance Rhyperior, SD Gallade, CM Raikou) that can easily set up on whatever is Mean Looked.
A Rhyperior with a Rock Polish and a Swords Dances is very, VERY hard to stop. I'll bet people could come up with some nasty combos for this. I haven't looked into it very extensively - maybe others should. See the CMT for my Rhyperior set.
A Rhyperior with a Rock Polish and a Swords Dances is very, VERY hard to stop. I'll bet people could come up with some nasty combos for this. I haven't looked into it very extensively - maybe others should. See the CMT for my Rhyperior set.
Did you run any damage calcs? An Alakazam with maxed SpAtk can still OHKO a 252/0 Hariyama, thus Focus Sash.
If you aren't up against lead Zam, I'd rather take the extra bulk for the rest of the battle than maxed speed on a base 50 speed Pokemon. Looks like you have your own preferences. Great.
Building on Heysup's idea of an effective resttalking altaria from a while ago:
Altaria (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 218 HP/64 Def/124 Spd/104 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
The EVs look kind of weird, but they have some purpose. The defense EV's are enough to reduce Registeel's Iron Head (a pesky wall) down to a 4HKO. The special defense EV's are enough to reduce Moltres' Fire Blast to a 2HKO without rocks. The speed EV's can outspeed +Speed Base 105's after a DD. It's somewhat successful, but for some reason Sleep Talk keeps activating Rest. Basically you lure in Slowbros or Registeels who think you'll be crippled after a T-Wave or Toxic. Keep DDing, then Rest right at the last moment. They'll get worried, most likely staying in so something else doesn't eat a +6 Outrage. Pray you won't die before the two turns of sleep are up, and go crazy. Leftovers might work better than LO since it's a defensive set, but I like the power.
Altaria (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 218 HP/64 Def/124 Spd/104 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
The EVs look kind of weird, but they have some purpose. The defense EV's are enough to reduce Registeel's Iron Head (a pesky wall) down to a 4HKO. The special defense EV's are enough to reduce Moltres' Fire Blast to a 2HKO without rocks. The speed EV's can outspeed +Speed Base 105's after a DD. It's somewhat successful, but for some reason Sleep Talk keeps activating Rest. Basically you lure in Slowbros or Registeels who think you'll be crippled after a T-Wave or Toxic. Keep DDing, then Rest right at the last moment. They'll get worried, most likely staying in so something else doesn't eat a +6 Outrage. Pray you won't die before the two turns of sleep are up, and go crazy. Leftovers might work better than LO since it's a defensive set, but I like the power.
No, it wouldn't. Not in the slightest. You're set is absolutely DEAD against Ambipom, and that's kind of important. My set has Protect to stop Fake Out, and can then KO even if Ambi has a Focus Sash of it's own (it's not standard, but it is somehow common). Alakazam can survive with a FS, and KO with Psychic (don't let that special defense fool you, none of the Hitmons survive a Psychic). The CS doesn't help against Froslass. Oh, and Moltres? Who uses lead Moltres? I've never seen one. If they really exist, then yes, you have a niche... but Hitmontop is better overall. Other than that, Hitmontop looses to... Spiritomb. So does Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, and just about every other fighting pokemon out there. (PS: your filler should be Rapid Spin. All the Hitmons get it for some reason.)
Think of Hitmontop as a mini lead Starmie, with priority instead of blazing speed. It mauls you're opponent, and then Rapid Spins away the spikes/SR. Then, it is switched out and used later on, because it still packs a potent punch.
Speaking of which, where are the UU lead statistics? I can't seem to find them anywhere.
Aside from anti-leading a Froslass/Zam, stopping Ambi turn 1 Fake Out, and damaging a Cloyster not much. I'd never use a Hariyama lead, but I was continuing on Mattman's train of thought for the sake of discussion.
If using Hariyama as a lead then I'd just go for bulky brute force the way only Hari can, rather than just as a boring generic attack + priority anti-lead that dozens of Pokemon can do. Hariyama can work equally well later in the match this way. Something like this:
Hariyama @ Toxic Orb
Guts
Brave / Adamant
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
- Close Combat
- Payback
- Bullet Punch
- Bulk Up / Protect / Stone Edge / Ice Punch
With a set like this you can do the unthinkable and actually set up on Spiritombs and 2HKO, using minimum speed and Payback, with Bullet Punch to easily finish off on second attack against those obviously lacking Defense investment. It also has a chance of OHKOing even max Defense Uxies and Slowbros at +1 while poisoned, and will almost always OHKO Milotic with Close Combat. With max special defense it can take even Alakazam's Psychic provided no boosting item.
Obviously that is just assuming Bulk Up in the fourth slot, but Protect is also there if you're worried about Ambipom. Personally I'd just put Spiritomb in alongside this so that both it and Alakazam are a non-issue. Or if you don't like either of those options, use another attack for added coverage. Another option is to keep the speed with Adamant and shift a few EVs there, meaning you lose out against Spiritomb, Slowbro etc but fare much better against Donphan, Regirock, Steelix and others.
Hariyama @ Toxic Orb
Guts
Brave / Adamant
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
- Close Combat
- Payback
- Bullet Punch
- Bulk Up / Protect / Stone Edge / Ice Punch
With a set like this you can do the unthinkable and actually set up on Spiritombs and 2HKO, using minimum speed and Payback, with Bullet Punch to easily finish off on second attack against those obviously lacking Defense investment. It also has a chance of OHKOing even max Defense Uxies and Slowbros at +1 while poisoned, and will almost always OHKO Milotic with Close Combat. With max special defense it can take even Alakazam's Psychic provided no boosting item.
Obviously that is just assuming Bulk Up in the fourth slot, but Protect is also there if you're worried about Ambipom. Personally I'd just put Spiritomb in alongside this so that both it and Alakazam are a non-issue. Or if you don't like either of those options, use another attack for added coverage. Another option is to keep the speed with Adamant and shift a few EVs there, meaning you lose out against Spiritomb, Slowbro etc but fare much better against Donphan, Regirock, Steelix and others.
Well, obviously SD RainDancer is the best set but I was simply implying that the CB set functions better than the SD, Support, or Flail sets. However, this hypothesis was gained from one match. I will test it out as soon as I complete a 'project' I'm working on.
If Froslass gets up a layer of Spikes aka it's job... than I don't see how that is 'Anti-Leading'. Lead Zam will probably run counter.. so yeah. Stopping a Ambipom Fake Out isn't exactly gamebreaking... why not just have your lead switch?
Anyways, I agree with Lemmi's post for the most part.
Here is a off question...
What is your prefered Attacking coverage in UU?
Water/Normal
BoltBeam
FightDark
FightRock
GroundIce
GroundRock
Stab/Stab
are the ones from the top of my head...
I physically I always shoot for Fight/Rock. Specially I always go for STAB/STAB, example would be Venusaur LeafStorm/SludgeBomb.
I'm a little sick now, so i'm not going to test any more pokes... for now lol
I'm just gonna ask here about some pokes.
Any thoughts about Lapras?
Lapras has similar defensive stats of Vaporeon(except it is actually higher... HP and Sp.def are the same, Def. is higher on Lapras) making it a terribly effective tank(with Rest)
It can boost its Attack through 2 means: sweeping Dragon Dance or tankish Curse sets(i LOVE the curse set, especially with Shell Armor) meaning it can attack too.
85 attack/sp.atk isn't too bad either.
Favorite set:(The one i mostly used):
Lapras@Leftovers
Ability:Battle Armor
Curse
Avalanche
Rest
Sleep Talk
Even with the crappy Ice typing that holds Lapras back, it still takes special assaults like a pro while boosting its defense and attack, meaning Avalanche will hurt.
Can survive some Leaf Storms, just for you to see how bulky it is. Shell Armor protects you against the critical hits that dooms many defensive set up sets.
It can go special too, hitting pokes with its nice, large movepool. STAB Surf and Ice Beam, Thunderbolt... it's like a slow but bulky version of Starmie.
Dragon Dance: nice. Its great hp means unbreakable subs against Seismic Toss/Night Shade users, letting you set up without much problems. It can use Body Slam over Return to get some lucky paras too.
There's priority too. Bulky poke with priority is always nice.
Finally, there's Block Perish Song sets... lol. Nice but occasional.
A bulky, versatile poke i say. One of the best water counters, can do pretty much everything: tank, wall, sweep... or even wall, tank AND sweep all in one.
Any thoughts?
PS: I know that 80% of the "newcomers"can put a hole on Lapras(Gallade, Rhyperior, Raikou)... damn you Ice type lol
I'm just gonna ask here about some pokes.
Any thoughts about Lapras?
Lapras has similar defensive stats of Vaporeon(except it is actually higher... HP and Sp.def are the same, Def. is higher on Lapras) making it a terribly effective tank(with Rest)
It can boost its Attack through 2 means: sweeping Dragon Dance or tankish Curse sets(i LOVE the curse set, especially with Shell Armor) meaning it can attack too.
85 attack/sp.atk isn't too bad either.
Favorite set:(The one i mostly used):
Lapras@Leftovers
Ability:Battle Armor
Curse
Avalanche
Rest
Sleep Talk
Even with the crappy Ice typing that holds Lapras back, it still takes special assaults like a pro while boosting its defense and attack, meaning Avalanche will hurt.
Can survive some Leaf Storms, just for you to see how bulky it is. Shell Armor protects you against the critical hits that dooms many defensive set up sets.
It can go special too, hitting pokes with its nice, large movepool. STAB Surf and Ice Beam, Thunderbolt... it's like a slow but bulky version of Starmie.
Dragon Dance: nice. Its great hp means unbreakable subs against Seismic Toss/Night Shade users, letting you set up without much problems. It can use Body Slam over Return to get some lucky paras too.
There's priority too. Bulky poke with priority is always nice.
Finally, there's Block Perish Song sets... lol. Nice but occasional.
A bulky, versatile poke i say. One of the best water counters, can do pretty much everything: tank, wall, sweep... or even wall, tank AND sweep all in one.
Any thoughts?
PS: I know that 80% of the "newcomers"can put a hole on Lapras(Gallade, Rhyperior, Raikou)... damn you Ice type lol
I'm a big lover of Lapras, but it's not as effective anymore because there are so many common pokemon that can hurt it. My favorite and most used set is Sub DD. 101 subs are nice but the SR weakness, common weaknesses to Electric, Grass, Rock, and Fighting, along with low base Speed means it will probably faint or be forced to switch before doing much. It's also set up bait for Raikou. Water Absorb is nice to offset the SR weakness, but it's not enough to offset its faults.
It works. I use
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 192 HP/252 Atk/12 Spd/54 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Ice Shard
- Dragon Dance
- Return
Suceptible to status but it works... with a sub just replace ice shard. It's so bulky. I use choice tricking and you can almost always get at least 2 dances
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 192 HP/252 Atk/12 Spd/54 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Ice Shard
- Dragon Dance
- Return
Suceptible to status but it works... with a sub just replace ice shard. It's so bulky. I use choice tricking and you can almost always get at least 2 dances
Interesting.. I used a similar set in old UU, except with Sub instead of Return, and Battle Armor.
It is a pity Lapras does not get Ice Punch, (Not that he has arms but still...) You might be better off using Mixed Dragon Dancer.
Alakazam can work on stall teams even with poor defenses.
Moveset:
Substitute
Encore
Psychic
Signal Beam/Focus Blast
Nature: Timid
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 24 HP, 252 Sp Atk, 216 Speed, 16 Sp Def
For this set to work, make sure you have a lot of Entry Hazards such as Spikes, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes. Omastar is one of the very few, if not only UU who can learn all 3 of those entry hazards. Also make sure to have a sturdy spin-blocker like Spiritomb or Dusclops. Switch this brainy guy in after a kill or if you matchup against Registeel, Chansey or anything you know that uses Thunder Wave or a status move. Substitute against the oncoming Status Move, Encore it, then start spamming Psychic. Encore can also be used to shut down unsuspecting Calm Mind users like Espeon, Slowbro and Raikou. Signal Beam takes care of opposing Psychic types like Espeon while Focus Blast can be used to KO Steel types like Magneton and Steelix, although the accuracy is shaky. It can 2KO the standard Registeel with 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers taken into account, although only a 49% chance due to accuracy. Signal Beam is the better choice most of the time though. 24 HP EVs are to make 4 Substitutes in a row with no residual damage, and 5 with Leftovers. 216 Speed EVs help outpace base 115s like Ambipom and Raikou, while the remaining are put into Special Defense.
Stefani Germanotta AKA Lady Gaga
XOXO
Moveset:
Substitute
Encore
Psychic
Signal Beam/Focus Blast
Nature: Timid
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 24 HP, 252 Sp Atk, 216 Speed, 16 Sp Def
For this set to work, make sure you have a lot of Entry Hazards such as Spikes, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes. Omastar is one of the very few, if not only UU who can learn all 3 of those entry hazards. Also make sure to have a sturdy spin-blocker like Spiritomb or Dusclops. Switch this brainy guy in after a kill or if you matchup against Registeel, Chansey or anything you know that uses Thunder Wave or a status move. Substitute against the oncoming Status Move, Encore it, then start spamming Psychic. Encore can also be used to shut down unsuspecting Calm Mind users like Espeon, Slowbro and Raikou. Signal Beam takes care of opposing Psychic types like Espeon while Focus Blast can be used to KO Steel types like Magneton and Steelix, although the accuracy is shaky. It can 2KO the standard Registeel with 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers taken into account, although only a 49% chance due to accuracy. Signal Beam is the better choice most of the time though. 24 HP EVs are to make 4 Substitutes in a row with no residual damage, and 5 with Leftovers. 216 Speed EVs help outpace base 115s like Ambipom and Raikou, while the remaining are put into Special Defense.
Stefani Germanotta AKA Lady Gaga
XOXO
I have to say that hail is probably one of the least talked about team types this test when I think its currently the strongest in uu. Im nearly convinced that if froslass is not broken for the support characteristic itself outside of hail, then snover is for making her broken in it.
I cant say froslass is bl for sure because Im not convinced that she is outside of hail. But in hail her and her ability are stupid good whether she is stalling/ spiking or smashing faces with specs blizzard. I think snover is a potential bl that people may not be noticing.
I cant say froslass is bl for sure because Im not convinced that she is outside of hail. But in hail her and her ability are stupid good whether she is stalling/ spiking or smashing faces with specs blizzard. I think snover is a potential bl that people may not be noticing.
- Status