Arcanine [4N] Morning Glory*

Xia

Xia

On porpoise
is a Contributor Alumnus
Status: Completed

This set has seen a lot of use since HGSS brought about Morning Sun, so I felt the need to have an analysis on-site. If I missed anything or someone would like information added, please let me know.

59.png

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/arcanine/

[SET]
name: Morning Glory
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: ExtremeSpeed
move 3: Morning Sun
move 4: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Morning Sun's recovery may not be as set in stone as moves like Recover and Softboiled, it goes a long way in aiding Arcanine as it tears through teams, holding either a Life Orb (for increased damage) or Leftovers (for added survivability).</p>

<p>Flare Blitz is Arcanine's main attack, while ExtremeSpeed cleans up anything that can survive the attack. Morning Sun helps Arcanine recover from repeated recoil damage from both Flare Blitz and Life Orb (if you choose this item) as well as from entry hazard damage, though at the cost of a turn.</p>

<p>The move in the last slot is mainly filler, although the choice is mainly decided by how you play Arcanine. More cautious players may opt to use Toxic, helping them to wear down counters, such as Hitmontop and Slowbro, who may try to stop your sweep. Will-O-Wisp is a cautious move, easily incapacitating physical sweepers, although the many Fire-types with Flash Fire and threatening Guts sweepers can diminish its usefulness. If you're looking to use Arcanine as a stand-alone sweeper, you may be interested in Thunder Fang or Iron Head, as they are the most competetively viable attacks Arcanine has at its disposal; Thunder Fang puts dents in Water-types, while Iron Head provides reliable damage with a chance to flinch.</p>

<p>Due to the increased usage of max Speed base 80s - most notably Venusaur, Arcanine might want to give up some of its offensive power to outrun and defeat these threats. To reach this Speed tier, run an EV spread of 120 HP / 152 Atk / 236 Spe with an Adamant nature. This spread is actually more efficient than the given spread with a Jolly nature, since it provides a higher Attack stat.</p>

<p>To outpace bulky Froslass, Arcanine can run a spread of 68 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 16 SpD / 156 Spe with a Jolly nature. Once outsped, the threat Froslass presents is mitigated, allowing for an easier sweep.</p>

<p>Arcanine is often seen abusing strong sunlight in an attempt to increase the HP recovered by Morning Sun to 2/3 of its total HP. Leads who can set up Sunny Day, such as Ambipom, Uxie and Claydol, are great additions to a team based around Arcanine (Uxie and Claydol more so, thanks to their Ground-type immunities). The bulky and powerful Tangrowth is a great complimentary sweeper for Arcanine, since it can provide status support and counter Water-types for Arcanine. In return, Arcanine can sponge super effective Fire-type attacks aimed at Tangrowth. Any Grass-type with the Chlorophyll ability will enjoy being on a Sunny Day team with Arcanine.</p>

<p>Flash Fire is also a viable ability choice, although it doesn't become a superior choice unless Arcanine is placed on a Sunny Day team. This is a great environment for Arcanine, since it gives Flare Blitz double STAB. Flash Fire's usefulness is also greatly influenced by Arcanine's teammates; if there are many Grass-types on its team, Arcanine can boost the power of its Fire-type attacks very easily, thanks to type synergy.</p>

<p>Having a way to take care of auto-weather effects from Hippopotas and Snover is reccomended, since Morning Sun's recovery drops from 1/2 Arcanine's total HP in normal battle conditions to a low 1/4. Since both of these threats are typically seen as leads, they can easily be disposed of by your own lead. Ambipom is able to break their Focus Sash with Fake Out and use either Sunny Day to counter their weather effects or Return to nab the KO.</p>
 
Just a few nitpicks

Xia said:
<p>The move in the last slot is mainly filler, though the choice is mainly decided by how you play Arcanine. More cautious players may opt to use Toxic, helping them to wear down counters, such as Hitmontop, who may try to stop your sweep. Will-O-Wisp (Removed unnecessary words) is a cautious move, easily incapacitating the likes of Honchkrow and Azumarill, though the many Fire-types (removed unnecessary words and changed merged two sentences together) with Flash Fire and Guts can diminish its usefulness. Overheat is the choice for those players who cast Arcanine as an explosive, stand-alone sweeper. Remember to move the HP EVs to Special Attack to boost Overheats damage output, since an Adamant nature already lowers Arcanine's Special Attack stat. Other worthwhile moves for the final slot include Thunder Fang, Iron Head, Hidden Power Ground, and Hidden Power Grass.</p>

<p>Arcanine is often seen abusing strong sunlight in an attempt to increase the HP recovered by Morning Sun to 2/3 of its total HP. Leads who can set up Sunny Day, such as Ambipom, Uxie and Claydol, are great additions to a team based around Arcanine (Uxie and Claydol moreso, thanks to Ground-type immunities). The bulky and powerful Tangrowth is a great complimentary sweeper for Arcanine, since it can provide status and counter Water-types for Arcanine. In return, Arcanine can sponge super effective Fire-type aimed at Tangrowth. Any Grass-type with the Chlorophyll ability will enjoy being on a Sunny Day team with Arcanine.</p>

<p>Having a way to take care of auto-weather effects from Hippopotas (capital) and Snover (Capital) is reccomended, since Morning (spelling) Sun's recovery drops from 1/2 Arcanine's total HP in normal battle conditions to a low 1/4. Since both of these threats are typically seen as leads, they can easily be disposed of by your own lead. Ambipom is able to break their Focus Sash with Fake Out and use either Sunny Day to counter their weather effects or Return to nab the KO.</p>

<p>Any teammates for the other sweeper sets are also viable for this set, due to the similar strategies behind these sets.</p>
Click to expand...

Is it worth having Adamant Nature and Overheat? Arcanine really can't afford to use Overheat at the same time as having a stat reducing nature.
 
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to nitpick. =]

Is it worth having Adamant Nature and Overheat? Arcanine really can't afford to use Overheat at the same time as having a stat reducing nature.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's the surprize factor that Overheat brings to the table that makes it so appealing. Though its uses are a bit gimmicky, it really does a great job when Arcanine is against Pokemon with Intimidate, as well as Pokemon who think their Defense stat is enough to let them wall Arcanine.

I do suppose adding this information to the OP would clarify the issue, so it has been.
 
[SET]

name: Morning Glory
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: ExtremeSpeed
move 3: Morning Sun
move 4: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp / Overheat
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Morning Sun's recovery may not be as set in stone as moves like Recover and Softboiled, it goes a long way in aiding Arcanine as it tears through teams, holding either a Life Orb (for increased damage) or Leftovers (for added survivability).</p>

<p>Flare Blitz is Arcanine's main attack, and anything that can survive it is cleaned up by ExtremeSpeed. Morning Sun helps Arcanine recover from repeated recoil damage from both Flare Blitz and Life Orb (if you choose this item) as well as from entry hazard damage, though at the cost of a turn.</p>
Click to expand...
<p>The move in the last slot is mainly filler, though the choice is mainly decided by how you play Arcanine. More cautious players may opt to use Toxic, helping them to wear down counters, such as Hitmontop, who may try to stop your sweep. Will-O-Wisp easily incapacitates the likes of Honchkrow and Azumarill, though the many Fire-types and Pokemon with Guts can diminish its usefulness. Overheat is the choice for those players who cast Arcanine as an explosive, stand-alone sweeper, giving Arcanine an advantage against Pokemon with Intimidate and Pokemon who would take more damage from a special attack than a physical one. Remember to move the HP EVs to Special Attack to boost Overheat's damage output, since an Adamant nature already lowers Arcanine's Special Attack stat. Other worthwhile moves for the final slot include Thunder Fang, Iron Head, Hidden Power Ground, and Hidden Power Grass.</p>
Click to expand...
I don't see much application for Overheat. What are a few examples of its usefulness? A lot of Pokemon hit harder by it are not likely to be switching into / staying in on Arcanine (Steelix, Tangrowth) or are handled better or equally as well by WOW (Donphan, Hitmontop).

<p>Arcanine is often seen abusing strong sunlight in an attempt to increase the HP recovered by Morning Sun to 2/3 of its total HP. Leads who can set up Sunny Day, such as Ambipom, Uxie, and Claydol, are great additions to a team based around Arcanine (Uxie and Claydol more so, thanks to Ground-type immunities). The bulky and powerful Tangrowth is a great complementary sweeper for Arcanine, since it can provide status and counter Water-types for Arcanine. In return, Arcanine can sponge super effective Fire attacks aimed at Tangrowth. Any Grass-type with the Chlorophyll ability will enjoy being on a Sunny Day team with Arcanine.</p>

<p>Having a way to take care of auto-weather effects from Hippopotas and Snover is recommended, since Morning Sun's recovery drops from 1/2 Arcanine's total HP in normal battle conditions to a low 1/4. Since both of these threats are typically seen as leads, they can easily be disposed of by your own lead. Ambipom is able to break their Focus Sashes with Fake Out and use either Sunny Day to counter their weather effects or Return to nab the KO.</p>

<p>Any teammates for the other sweeper sets are also viable for this set, due to the similar strategies behind these sets.</p>
Click to expand...
 
Can you explain exactly what the Speed EVs are trying to accomplish? If you're trying to outspeed max neutral base 80s, then you can drop an extra 4 Speed EVs into HP (especially useful since as it is right now LO will kill you after 10 attacks, while with the extra point you'll get 11), although I'm not sure how useful that will be considering many base 80s will probably want to try for the Speed tie due to Gallade. If it's to beat max neutral Milotic (which I have no idea why you'd want to do this, unless it's for Toxic), you need an extra 4 EVs.

Also, do you think Howl could be a possible mention for the last slot? I use a similar Arcanine (although with more Speed to beat positive base 80's instead of neutrals) with Howl in the last slot, and it's been quite useful at times, allowing me to beat stuff like Altaria that you can't really do anything to otherwise, even with Toxic. It could also allow you to potentially attempt a sweep.
 
The only problem with putting Howl in the last slot means it will lead to slashitis. I think we should recommend Howl in the OO section
 
Sheshi said:
The only problem with putting Howl in the last slot means it will lead to slashitis. I think we should recommend Howl in the OO section
Click to expand...

That's what I meant by "a mention for the last slot". I didn't mean actually putting it in the last slot, I meant something more along the lines of Iron Head and Thunder Fang and the others.
 
Flash Fire may be worth a mention if you use this on a Sunny Day team- Arcanine's Special Defense isn't great, and things like Specs Houndoom could otherwise do crazy damage to it in the sun. For example, max Special Attack Timid Specs Flamethrower in the sun cleanly 2HKOs it, and if Houndoom isn't choiced, a Fire attack+Dark Pulse with Life Orb can easily take out Arcanine. Extremespeed would help in that particular situation, but I'm just trying to say that Arcanine's Fire resistance isn't too helpful against strong special attackers in the sun. Also, a Flash Fire and Sunny Day boosted Flare Blitz OHKOs Donphan with Smogon's EVs (52 HP/204 Def) on average without any entry hazards.
 
Intimidate is generally the better option. One of the most commonly used moves is Earthquake. At -1 ATK, Pokemon without STAB won't be OHKOing Arcanine. Sunny Day teams are rarely seen though, so it may not be worth mentioning.
 
Eo Ut Mortus said:
I don't see much application for Overheat. What are a few examples of its usefulness? A lot of Pokemon hit harder by it are not likely to be switching into / staying in on Arcanine (Steelix, Tangrowth) or are handled better or equally as well by WOW (Donphan, Hitmontop).
Click to expand...
Well, if the general consensus is that Overheat is a bad option, I'll go ahead and remove it. I used it (though it was a bit gimmicky), though I have no problem letting the majority take control here.
MagicMaster87 said:
Can you explain exactly what the Speed EVs are trying to accomplish? If you're trying to outspeed max neutral base 80s, then you can drop an extra 4 Speed EVs into HP (especially useful since as it is right now LO will kill you after 10 attacks, while with the extra point you'll get 11), although I'm not sure how useful that will be considering many base 80s will probably want to try for the Speed tie due to Gallade. If it's to beat max neutral Milotic (which I have no idea why you'd want to do this, unless it's for Toxic), you need an extra 4 EVs.

Also, do you think Howl could be a possible mention for the last slot? I use a similar Arcanine (although with more Speed to beat positive base 80's instead of neutrals) with Howl in the last slot, and it's been quite useful at times, allowing me to beat stuff like Altaria that you can't really do anything to otherwise, even with Toxic. It could also allow you to potentially attempt a sweep.
Click to expand...
I was using them to outpace base 80s (mainly Altaria), so I'll move those extra EVs into HP. A big reason why I decided to outpace them was to get the edge over Altaria and Blaziken.
iliketurkeybacon said:
Flash Fire may be worth a mention if you use this on a Sunny Day team- Arcanine's Special Defense isn't great, and things like Specs Houndoom could otherwise do crazy damage to it in the sun. For example, max Special Attack Timid Specs Flamethrower in the sun cleanly 2HKOs it, and if Houndoom isn't choiced, a Fire attack+Dark Pulse with Life Orb can easily take out Arcanine. Extremespeed would help in that particular situation, but I'm just trying to say that Arcanine's Fire resistance isn't too helpful against strong special attackers in the sun. Also, a Flash Fire and Sunny Day boosted Flare Blitz OHKOs Donphan with Smogon's EVs (52 HP/204 Def) on average without any entry hazards.
Click to expand...
The only reason why I didn't mention Flash Fire was because it is discussed in detail in the OO section of the full analysis on-site.
 
I would love to know what I can do to make this analysis better. Is it too long, not detailed enough, need more/less team options, need preoofread again, or something like that?
 
I think a Jolly nature should be slashed in because of the huge jump in popularity of Gallade and Venusaur in particular. Venusaur especially has a tendency to run max Spe + Jolly.

I remember quite a few times when someone simply lost because their Arcanine switched into Venusaur, then I simply slept it and KOed.
 
Xia said:
Status:

[SET]

name: Morning Glory
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: ExtremeSpeed
move 3: Morning Sun
move 4: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Morning Sun's recovery may not be as set in stone as moves like Recover and Softboiled, it goes a long way in aiding Arcanine as it tears through teams, holding either a Life Orb (for increased damage) or Leftovers (for added survivability).</p>

<p>Flare Blitz is Arcanine's main attack, while ExtremeSpeed cleans up anything that can survive the attack. Morning Sun helps Arcanine recover from repeated recoil damage from both Flare Blitz and Life Orb (if you choose this item) as well as from entry hazard damage, though at the cost of a turn.</p>

<p>The move in the last slot is mainly as a filler, though the choice is mainly decided by how you play Arcanine. More cautious players may opt to use Toxic, helping them to wear down counters, such as Hitmontop and Slowbro (Slowbro's a big one), who may try to stop your sweep. Will-O-Wisp is a cautious move, easily incapacitating the likes of Honchkrow and Azumarill, though the many Fire-types with Flash Fire and threatening Guts sweepers can diminish its usefulness. If you're looking to use Arcanine as a stand-alone sweeper, you may be interested in Thunder Fang or Iron Head, as they are the most competetively viable attacks Arcanine has at its disposal. (perhaps you can mention what they are mainly used for?)</p>

<p>Due to the increased usage of max Speed base 80s - most notably Venusaur and Gallade, Arcanine might want to give up some of its offensive power to outspeed and defeat these threats.</p>

How many Speed EVs is that?

<p>Arcanine is often seen abusing strong sunlight in an attempt to increase the HP recovered by Morning Sun to 2/3 of its total HP. Leads who can set up Sunny Day, such as Ambipom, Uxie and Claydol, are great additions to a team based around Arcanine (Uxie and Claydol moreso, thanks to their Ground-type immunities). The bulky and powerful Tangrowth is a great complimentary sweeper for Arcanine, since it can provide status support and counter Water-types for Arcanine. In return, Arcanine can sponge super effective Fire-type attacks aimed at Tangrowth. Any Grass-type with the Chlorophyll ability will enjoy being on a Sunny Day team with Arcanine.</p>

Maybe you can mention the ability Flash Fire in this case, as Grass-types attract them. You can also mention in the above paragraph where you talk about the EVs why Intimidate is used over Flash Fire. I will surely like to give Arcanine a stronger Flare Blitz. One last thing, you could make a mention of Flare Blitz being stronger under the Sun, maybe it turns some 2HKOs into OHKOs?

<p>Having a way to take care of auto-weather effects from Hippopotas and Snover is reccomended, since Morning Sun's recovery drops fromm 1/2 of Arcanine's total HP in normal battle conditions to a low 1/4. Since both of these threats are typically seen as leads, they can easily be disposed of by your own lead. Ambipom is able to break their Focus Sash with Fake Out and use either Sunny Day to counter their weather effects or Return to nab the KO.</p>

<p>Any teammates from the other Arcanine sweeper sets are also viable for this set, due to the similar strategies behind them.</p>
Click to expand...

Nice job Xia! Take note of the comments in parentheses.
 
I just have one nitpick.

Why not run a spread of 68 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 16 SpD / 156 Spe so that you can outrun bulky Froslass? I just think it's important for Arcanine to hit Froslass before it can set up Spikes. At least mention the Speed somewhere, I guess.
 
I'll go ahead and mention that spread in the set comments Heysup. Thanks for mentioning it. =]

EDIT: I've also gone through and added/changed some stuff in the team options section. nothing huge, but enough to warrant comment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top