Attack and Defence.

[jincongz]

I've gotten pretty good results with this team, and being bored of it, I would like to see critique.
My inspiration for this team is taking induced hits, and hitting back. Hence, infernape leads to vaporeon (water) or Gengar/Gyarados (Ground), Vaporeon leads to electivire (electric), which then lead to either gyarados or gengar (ground). Gyarados leads to Electivire (electric), and Gengar leads to snorlax (ghost), whcih leads to gengar (fighting).
From this leading, my Vappy gets healed, my gyarados probably gets a DD, electvire gets a speed boost, and gengar hits hard on whatever switches in.

Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk/252 Spd/192 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fake Out
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat
My favorite lead, I pretty much can use it against all other leads. Only problem is with Metagross, which I fake out then stealth rock, abandoning ship, as their earthquake/bullet punch would wrech havoc. Sash and Blaze can beat faster leads and attack whatever they switch in, other than dragons and gyarados, which I switch in Vappy.
Fake out all leads but ghosts, to break sashes. Then, you SR if you're faster, and attack if you're slower. Blaze starts if they attack you, hence giving you a brutal fire blast on a relatively fast pokemon. If their stealth rocking lead dies without having rocks up, I usually try to keep Nape alive at 1%, giving another sweeping opportunity/breaking SkarmBliss.
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Vaporeon (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 Def/68 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Signal Beam
This Vaporeon is can take anything short of an outrage, and kill what it switches in on. Single DD Gyarados (DD on the switch) can't OHKO, meaning my HP electric will kill them. If they switch to something that's electric, I switch to electivire.
Surf is for swampart and STAB, Ice beam for dragons (incl latias), HP Elec is for opposing waters (esp Gyarados), and Signal beam is for grass pokes, especially celebi.
Having four attacks surprises people, as I've had vappy taunted on many occations.
---
Gengar (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
My Fighting/ground attack absorber. Has a tendancy to kill Swamperts with Energy Ball who switch in on my Electivire/fighting types with shadow ball trying to kill snorlax. Thunderbolt is for waters that got past my vappy, and S-Ball is for slower ghosts/STAB attack.
---
Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
I use this to take the shadow balls that rotoms send out, and crunch in return. As well, it kills heatran beautifully, as it absorbs the fire attack and hits back with an earthquake.
Body Slam over Return for the chance of Paral, as I've had many times a faceoff with blissey/something to set up, just to paral them. Fire punch is for the scizors who think they can SD on Snorlax. With the SDef, I can also take a magnezone/jolteon's t-bolt and quake it back.
---
Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
My sweeper. Single DD will beat most threats, and threats to it seem to be covered well by the rest of my team. Waterfall for STAB, Ice Fang for dragons (who tend to be slower after a DD), and Quake for electric types after a DD or two. I can switch it in on a multitude of choiced attacks (BP, EQ, etc...) and set up.
---
Electivire (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Thunderpunch
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Cross Chop
My quad hitter, TP is for STAB/Gyarados, Fire for scizors/forretress, ice for dragons, and cross chop for blisseys, heatran, and lucarios. I usually switch it in on Gyarados or Vappy, taking a electric attack.
---

Threat list (taken from http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...14&postcount=2)

Defensive Threats:

Blissey – Infernape CC or Electivire CC, gyarados is all else fails.

Celebi – Signal Beam from vappy. Or fire punch from lax or vire.

Cresselia – Shadow ball, crunch.

Dusknoir- Shadow ball, crunch again.

Forretress – See celebi.

Gliscor – Ice punch, ice beam, ice fang.

Gyarados - thunder punch, hp elec, thunderbolt.

Hippowdon – Annoying one, I usually fire blast if it's a lead. Or else, Vappy's surf/Gyarados waterfall/gengar e-ball should do the job.

Rotom-A – See noir. Unless if they t-bolt, which means I switch in my electvire, THEN snorlax to crunch them.

Skarmory – See forretress. Unless if it's against my snorlax, which means I guess their roost to EQ.

Snorlax – see blissey

Suicune – Crocune can't do crap against my vappy, so I can either PP it out.

Swampert – E-ball from gengar.

Tyranitar – CC/CC, or if I'm lucky, F-blast.

Vaporeon – Say hi to my vire.

Zapdos – See gliscor. Unless it switches in on my gyarados, which means i vire.

Offensive Threats:

Azelf – If it's a lead, fake out/fire blast usually kills it. Or else, i put in snorlax and crunch, or vappy and signal beam.

Breloom – This is a pain to me. Let it spore lax, switch in nape to blast, unless they sub, which means i blast until I die (with their sub gone), and vire to fire punch.

Empoleon- HP elec from Vappy. What do you mean you can't attack me?

Gengar – I've been pretty lucky with the speedties, or else I snorlax and crunch if it's faster (scarf/unlucky)

Gyarados – Vappy say baibai.

Heatran – Vappy surf/gyara quake.

Infernape – vappy. Grass knot doesn't do nearly enough.

/

Jolteon/Raikou – Yay Vire! Unless they specs shadowball after, which means they meet my snorlax and quake.

Latias – see gliscor/see dusknoir.

Kingdra – If they are using waterfall, I use vappy. if they outrage, they'll kill one, and i use nape to hopefully fake out the last turn.

Lucario – Gengar's F-blast, Vire/nape's CC.

Machamp – I usually weaken it with whatever it switches in on, and finish with a gengar's shadowball.

Magnezone – Quake on 2 of my pokes, fire on 3, fighting on 3. It will die.

Mamoswine – Blast the leads, surf the others.

Metagross – Fire blast. I hate occa berries, but I'll just surf those.

Salamence - Gyarados is a safe bet if they haven't DDed.

Scizor – See Bronzong.

Starmie – Switch to Vappy, then to Vire if it's not choiced.

Tyranitar – See above.

Weavile – Usually can't kill my CCers or I use lax to fire punch.

Zapdos – Vire/Ice Punch.

Thanks in advance for advice.

 

[symphonyx64]

Hey there,

I have some concerns regarding your Electivire. Even though its tempting to utilize Electivire's respectable attacking status, a mixed Electivire would be of more benefit to you. I am talking about the "Mixed Attacker" set, right here on Smogon.

Yes, Electivire's attacking status is higher, but the payoff against key threats is far greater when employing the mixed set. For example, a max HP/Def Gyardos may not fall to a ThunderPunch and Skarmory is certainly not taken down from one ThunderPunch. But, both are taken down from one ThunderBolt.

Plus, when replacing IcePunch with Hidden Power Ice, you are given a reliable way to OHKO Gliscor and Salamence.

As for Flamethrower, Fortress is successfully taken down from Flamethrower while from FirePunch, it lives. It also hits Tangrowth and Celebi much harder since the majority of Celebis are physically bulky and Tangrowth's special defense is laughable.

 

[WoOoShoOo!!]

Your team is weak to Scizor and Lucario. Scizor weakens your team with U-Turn. Gengar is OHKO'd by BP, Electivire is OHKO'd by U-turn. Luke gets a SD and OHKO's Lax with CC, Gyara(not to mention Intimidate) with Stone Edge, Vappy with CC, and Infernape with Extremespeed. To solve that problem, I suggest Gliscor.

With Gliscor, Scizor and Lucario is a no-no. 1st, you can outspeed then both. 2nd you resist all of their STAB attacks. 3rd you have swrods dance. And a healing move. A Bulky Swords dance Gliscor fits the job, use the given set below and these EV's 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe with a Jolly Nature. With Roost, you can boost your Attack and continue to sweep. Also, I suggest changing Signal beam > Wish so that you can heal and let Vappy stay..Change Snorlax > Gliscor ... You have a good team..

Gliscor@Leftovers
~ Swords Dance
~ Earthquake
~ Roost
~ Stone Edge

 

[Kumar628]

Your team is weak to Scizor and Lucario. Scizor weakens your team with U-Turn. Gengar is OHKO'd by BP, Electivire is OHKO'd by U-turn. Luke gets a SD and OHKO's Lax with CC, Gyara(not to mention Intimidate) with Stone Edge, Vappy with CC, and Infernape with Extremespeed. To solve that problem, I suggest Gliscor.

With Gliscor, Scizor and Lucario is a no-no. 1st, you can outspeed then both. 2nd you resist all of their STAB attacks. 3rd you have swrods dance. And a healing move. A Bulky Swords dance Gliscor fits the job, use the given set below and these EV's 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe with a Jolly Nature. With Roost, you can boost your Attack and continue to sweep. Also, I suggest changing Signal beam > Wish so that you can heal and let Vappy stay..Change Snorlax > Gliscor ... You have a good team..

Gliscor@Leftovers
~ Swords Dance
~ Earthquake
~ Roost
~ Stone Edge

I second this twice.

This man speaks truth except maybe Lucarios nowadays carry Crunch for Ghosts who wall, or Ice Punch just for Gliscor, but the possibility of being sweeped is not allowed for a balanced team. So, use his suggested set, or maybe a support/defensive set.

I can't think of anyone else who could do what Gliscor does; his speed and defense are really what makes him suitable for countering these two, as well as a few other problems.

Another thing that has been repeated: MIXED ATTACK ELECTIVIRE IS WORTH WAY MORE on pretty much any team. It can be walled by some pokemon, yes, but not as much as all Physical. Might I also suggest Vaporeon go defensive? If you go with Mixed Attack Electivire (MixVire) then Vaporeon's coverage isn't needed, as Electivire can cover them all and then some. The problem with PhysVire (lolol) is that he is walled more easily by Skarmory (Thunderpunch 2HKOs; Thunderbolt OHKOs), Swampert (No SE attack; HP Grass OHKOs), and others. The only super-duper counters to all Electivire sets is Rotom and Cresselia, but MixVire overall has more utility and coverage compared to his other sets. And your GyaraVire combo is basic but effective, as when he gets a Motor Drive boost, he is a great late-game sweeper, once Scarfers are eliminated and the rest of the pokes are at a reasonable HP each (80%-ish) and they are not Rotom or Cresselia.

That's all I really have to say, as I am too lazy to really think up anything else. If I do, I'll be sure to edit it in.

Good luck with the team!

 

[Bloo]

On Gengar, I don't see the reason for Energy Ball. Energy Ball's main target is Swampert, which your team handles fine. Swampert isn't able to beat Vaporeon, since Vaporeon will come out on top with its STAB Surf and ability to take a couple of Earthquakes, Swampert's strongest move found on the typical move set. Additionally, Gyarados is able to take on Swampert with Waterfall, as it does 34.90% - 41.09% when holding Life Orb and no Dragon Dance boost, while Swampert does mediocre damage with Ice Beam. Since your team handles Swampert well enough, there's no need for Energy Ball, as you're already hitting the Water-types that Energy Ball hits, such as Vaporeon with Thunderbolt. Even though Energy Ball hits Ground-types like Hippowdon for super effective damage, that's not good enough of a reason to keep it, since Hippo will fail to beat Gengar on most occasions since Gengar is immune to Earthquake -- the most commonly seen attack on Hippowdon. You can then proceed to wear it down with Shadow Ball, allowing you to come out on top.

In place of Energy Ball, I recommend using Substitute. Sub is a great help for Gengar for various reasons. With Sub, you're able to handle Tyranitar and Scizor, two of Gengar's biggest threats, more effectively, as you'll scout the switch-in as you Sub. When under a Sub, you will see if Scizor uses BP or Pursuit. If it Pursuit's, stay in and Focus Blast it for a 2HKO, and if it BP's, Focus Blast once, and switch to Gyarados on the resisted hit and set up a Dragon Dance to start smashing things. Furthermore, Substitute also allows you to block status, meaning you don't need to fear paralysis from the likes of Celebi, among others. With Substitute, I suggest replacing Expert Belt with Leftovers. With Substitute taking away 25% of Gengar's HP each time it uses it, you'll be losing health. With Leftovers, you'll replenish it slowly, and it will give Gengar a bit more survivability.

Now, I don't see a reason to use your current Vaporeon set. You'd be much better off using a Wish support set for a multitude of reasons. Firstly, with Wish, you'll be able to heal your other team members health, allowing them to stick around longer to dish out damage against your opponent. This is especially helpful since none of your sweepers have recovery, and with Stealth Rock / Life Orb and some possible sandstorm, they'll get worn down. Wish fixes this problem to an extent for the aforementioned reasons. Signal Beam is also rather pointless since the main Pokemon it's for is Celebi, who has the potential KO (114.29% - 135.27%) Vaporeon with Leaf Storm (commonly found on the TinkerBell set) The surprise value of your set is nice and all, however, Vaporeon is one of the best Wish users in the game, and you'd be better off taking advantage of that.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Bold | 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe
Surf | HP Electric | Wish | Protect

I'm sure you know the basic premise behind this set. Surf is for STAB, and deals consistent damage to a variety of threats. It also allows you to strike Fire-types like Heatran / Infernape for super effective damage. HP Electric is mainly for Gyarados. Protect ensures that Wish heals Vaporeon. Additionally, it allows Vaporeon to scout your opponents moves, making it quite a handy tool. The EVs allow Vaporeon to take a multitude of hits from various Pokemon thanks to its phenomenal HP and moderate Defense.

Lastly, I'd recommend placing Selfdestruct on your Snorlax over Fire Punch. Snorlax has the ability to take out something unexpectedly with Selfdestruct, and is one of Snorlax's main selling points when utilizing an all attacking set. A Snorlax can OHKO a Scizor after SR is factored in with Selfdestruct. Selfdestruct not only does an insane amount of damage to your opponents Pokemon, however, it also puts you in the a position to open up holes in your opponents team, paving the way for a your other hard hitters to sweep. I suggest it over Fire Punch since you're able to handle Scizor with Gyarados' Waterfall (you can also take advantage of a locked Superpower / Bullet Punch to set up a DD) Infernape can also dispose of Scizor with Fire Blast if it's around.

 

[joshe]

You should try Encore over Fake Out on Infernape. Firstly, if you go with Bloo's Subgar suggestion, you can get an easy Substitute with Gengar or an easy Dragon Dance thanks to Infernape locking say a Swampert into an Earthquake or Stealth Rock. Getting a Sub or Dragon Dance starts off the offensive assault this team can dish out and wants to dish out, and I feel it's better than fake out to let things that can beat you be the downfall of the opponents team. For example getting an Azelf stuck on a Psychic can let Metagross a free Agility.

Now Electivire really needs to go. Lets face it, it gets walled by too much and other things can take its place and do much better. a DD-Mence or Agility Metagross comes to mind. Both have excellent synergy with Gyarados and the rest of your team and provide quite a bit of offense to it also. Metagross can beat Offensive teams in a heartbeat while DD-Salamence can literally obliterate anything not-steel typed with a +1 Outrage, and even steels struggle at taking one. It's your choice really as to what one you should use. Metagross would probably do better due to you not having a steel type on your team (it's pretty much a required part of team-building in dppt/hgss to have a steel), as well as it having the best synergy with Gyarados of the pair (i.e. getting walled by the same stuff; one weakening, the other plowing through the rest of the team). Just test out both use which one works best for you.

I'd like Selsdesruct on Snorlax somewhere to be honest. Suicune troubles your team so badly, especially Crocune (if you think Vaporeon can beat it, you are very wrong. With Pressure it'll PP stall you easily) as well as some problems with other things setting up on it. Getting a STAB boom on either of those Pokemon will greatly help your team, and you can even do it with a weakened (not too weakened) Snorlax thanks to that huge Special defense, letting it stick around longer and helping you to get that boom once your done with it. I'd actually suggest you try it over Fire Punch. The only reason you'd ever use Fire Punch is to hit Scizor, but it will always either U-turn out or do massive damage with Superpower, making it all the less appealing when you think about it more.

Good Luck!

Edit: Bloo pretty much said everything else...