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np: UU - Can't Touch This

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At its core, Tentacruel really is a UU Pokemon. It got to OU via usage to begin with, so once it fails to meet the usage standards, it'll be nothing more than a homecoming.

EDIT:

As for Dusknoir imo he would be a change (big change if you will) but nothing that would be monumental. The usual wall breakers like blaziken are still able to break through him (Fire blast being a clean 2HKO), while he fails to OHKO back with eq + sr damage (provided he invests the usual 28 ev's in attack).
As for the spin blocking matter he still gets thrashed by the usual counter to anti spinners (ie:Drapion and Absol),who 2HKO with their respective dark type attacks . Donphan 2HKO's dusknoir with assurance and sr damage with lefties factored in and so seeing that donphan's faster , provided you get him on the switch , dusknoir wont even be able to burn you.
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whoa, so much wrong here, don't even know where to start

Donphan can't 2HKO shit with Assurance, much less Dusknoir. The damage calc automatically assumes 100 bp for Assurance, which is stupid and completely inaccurate. Dusknoir is just gonna Pain Split and Will-o-Wisp your ass.

Drapion and Absol will be rendered ineffective 70% of the time they come in and Drapion is outdamaged with EQ even if it misses, so you might as well pack a Lum Berry or not even bother trying. If you want to try and take out Dusky, what you need to do is have a Arcanine come in and pray the Flash Fire boost lets you OHKO before he fires off EQ. Moltres works too. Other Fire types get EQ'd and if that doesn't KO, Shadow Sneak. Azumarill could get behind a Sub once it thinks it's safe but again, don't come in right away or you'll risk a Will-o-Wisp.

Tbh, Dusknoir might pull another Cress by being better than everything else in its respective type (it dumped all over Alakazam, Hypno, Grumpig, and Espeon for sure), but as far as walling most of UU, it can't do that by just coming in and sitting there. You might have to fool around with certain sets to see how UU takes it before you make any solid assertions about whether or not it really belongs there.
 
SJCrew said:
Donphan can't 2HKO shit with Assurance, much less Dusknoir. The damage calc automatically assumes 100 bp for Assurance, which is stupid and completely inaccurate. Dusknoir is just gonna Pain Split and Will-o-Wisp your ass.
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Agreed. By mistake I took the base power of assurance to be 100. So yes dusknoir cant be checked by donphan with 2 assurances. However with a certain amount of playing around , blastoise with the right set ,it can counter it and then spinning is easy enough as then most people will be relying on dusky to block all spin attempts.
Aside from this when dusknoir switches in to entry hazards assurance will have a base 100 power. This followed by eq would (if not succesful then another eq , which wd kill it after all the hits even when burnt) finish off dusknoir. So what I said about donphan checking dusknoir is hardly completely wrong.

SJCrew said:
Drapion and Absol will be rendered ineffective 70% of the time they come in and Drapion is outdamaged with EQ even if it misses, so you might as well pack a Lum Berry or not even bother trying. If you want to try and take out Dusky, what you need to do is have a Arcanine come in and pray the Flash Fire boost lets you OHKO before he fires off EQ. Moltres works too. Other Fire types get EQ'd and if that doesn't KO, Shadow Sneak. Azumarill could get behind a Sub once it thinks it's safe but again, don't come in right away or you'll risk a Will-o-Wisp.

Tbh, Dusknoir might pull another Cress by being better than everything else in its respective type (it dumped all over Alakazam, Hypno, Grumpig, and Espeon for sure), but as far as walling most of UU, it can't do that by just coming in and sitting there. You might have to fool around with certain sets to see how UU takes it before you make any solid assertions about whether or not it really belongs there.
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Exactly the point I was trying to make actually(might have gotten a bit sidetracked :P). All im saying is dusknoir,tentacruel and the rest should be given a chance in uu as you cant say that its broken in uu without trying it as it does seem to be counterable somewhat.
 
@Synre: I presume you meant Dusknoir right?
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yeah whatever you guys call these newfangled pokemon these days




On an unrelated note... did anyone burst out laughing at the fact two people nominated AGGRON? Even as far as obviously balanced, obviously non-suspect Pokemon go that boggles my mind. It's sometimes tough to argue that he's even _good_
 
Dusknoir shouldn't be hyped so much. It's 45/135/135 defenses really aren't that much better than Spiritomb's 50/108/108 defenses. Adamant Donphan's EQ against both (assuming Max/Max+):

Spiritomb: 38.5% - 45.4%
Dusknoir: 34.7% - 40.8%

Yeah, we're looking at a whole 5% damage mitigation here. Not going to set the tier on fire anytime soon. And what does Dusknoir gain for this marginal increase in defensive power? Weaknesses to Ghost and Dark. Woo. Why does that matter? Well, for one, here's Donphan's Assurance if it catches Dusky on the switch (like, say, when it comes in to spinblock): 45.6% - 53.7%. Yeah, with rocks and leftovers factored in, you're looking at a pretty good chance of a 2hko with Assurance -> EQ, and that's guaranteed with spikes down. Spiritomb doesn't have to worry about this because it's never 2hko'd, even if it gets caught on the switch with an EQ, and it can happily burn Donphan and let a cleric heal it later with Wish or something. Additionally, Spiritomb makes a good check to things like Mismagius and Rotom in a pinch. Send out Dusknoir against either of those and tell me how it goes. Not to mention, Spiritomb gets STAB on Dark attacks (Sucker Punch/Pursuit), a useable special movepool, a boosting move (Calm Mind), etc. etc.

If you're going to use Dusknoir, you need to make sure it's not outclassed by ensuring that you take advantage of its only significant advantage over Spiritomb: Its substantially better physical movepool. Or Trick Room/Gravity (lol).
 
Synre said:
yeah whatever you guys call these newfangled pokemon these days




On an unrelated note... did anyone burst out laughing at the fact two people nominated AGGRON? Even as far as obviously balanced, obviously non-suspect Pokemon go that boggles my mind. It's sometimes tough to argue that he's even _good_
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I didn't exactly burst out laughin but I thought it was quite stupid.
 
Synre said:
yeah whatever you guys call these newfangled pokemon these days




On an unrelated note... did anyone burst out laughing at the fact two people nominated AGGRON? Even as far as obviously balanced, obviously non-suspect Pokemon go that boggles my mind. It's sometimes tough to argue that he's even _good_
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Wait, so if the nomination is accepted, will we actually have to write a paragraph on Aggron not being BL? O_o
 
Also Donphan can check dusknoir. if you get it on the switch with eq then you can eq again before it burns you (forgetting the odor sleuth arguement in which case the whole anti-spin thing is eliminated).Now there is a slight chance of the burnt eq still killing off dusky. I presume that in all this there is sr damage. So donphan can in several cases come out on top with the spin in hand :D
And again as pointed out by flare presuming there is sr on the field assurance should have a field day getting him on the switch.
 
We always get random "suspects" from people, like Milotic and Azumarill, every metagame. I dunno, I thought the nom paragraphs were supposed to keep that sort of thing away, but it might be better to just ask directly for suspect paragraphs and put the ones that get good paragraphs to a vote and skip the nomination process entirely. I really don't see any disadvantage to that method.
 
And what does Dusknoir gain for this marginal increase in defensive power?
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Higher attack, elemental punches, EQ, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Counter, Gravity, Mean Look, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Rain Dance, Sunny Day. That's a pretty nice list and opens up more options for him to deal with the opposing threat or support the team.

Yeah, with rocks and leftovers factored in, you're looking at a pretty good chance of a 2hko with Assurance -> EQ
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And with Leftovers recovery, it's not KOing shit, so I steal some HP, Wisp, then keep Pain Splitting until you're in KO range so I can Shadow Sneak you EQ. Either way, you're not getting that spin. You're probably going to end up using Assurance on a Water or Grass type anyway, in which case your scenario doesn't play out at all.

theorymon, what fun

Dusknoir shouldn't be hyped so much.
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It's not, it's more like "Dusknoir could be an interesting addition to UU, let's see what it does". You were basically countering your own theory there.

Also Donphan can check dusknoir.
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That requires Donphan to switch in, which would be incredibly retarded because it will Will-o-Wisp you.
 
I facepalm'd when I saw Aggron get nominated. Anyway, Dusknoir would be interesting to the UU metagame (UU seriously needs a good spin blocker, I really hate Spiritomb, who isn't as bulky as people think). A good spin blocker would mean good Stall teams (I don't know why, I never play Stall in Ubers or OU, but love playing Stall in UU).
 
I'm predicting a massive rise in Foresight Blastoise if/when Dusknoir comes down to UU. It's pretty much the only spinner that doesn't have anything to fear from Dusknoir (Hitmontop and Donphan fear the burn, and Claydol fears the SE Ice Punch/Shadow Sneak)

I don't know how I feel about him dropping down. I miss using him since he was such a staple in the Pre-Plat metagame, but I left OU because of how much I hate playing stall. If Dusknoirs addition makes stall popular in this tier you can all find me on the CAP server playing NU, where I assume balance is still a good playstyle
 
Dusknoir would help stall dominate, eh? Perhaps someone should show me a list of damage calcs that demonstrates Dusknoir's amazing hit-taking capability over the NU Dusclops that makes it finally worth using over the no-weak Spiritomb, so that I can start latching on to that theory. No Solid Rock-esque selling point for Dusknoir I'm afraid, and the main reason dual-Ghost is so good in UU is the fact that Spiritomb works well there and you don't have to double up on the weaknesses.
 
Synre said:
On an unrelated note... did anyone burst out laughing at the fact two people nominated AGGRON? Even as far as obviously balanced, obviously non-suspect Pokemon go that boggles my mind. It's sometimes tough to argue that he's even _good_
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Lmfao.

You guys are so sad though leave the poor guys alone!!!
 
Hmm, I would think that such discussions would not be allowed... Period.

But enough about Dusknoir, I myself would like to move onto Weavile. What makes it (her?) so powerful.

Despite SD, and high speed her moves themselves are weak. (She literally does not have a move that deals over 120 damage)

Flygon being inserted was just pure foolishness on my part.
I disagree with Tentacruel shaking up UU. He seems like he'd be a viable addition to the tier.

Hippowdon would be a bit devastating. Sandstorm teams start to polarize, (much like RD) you'll see a lot of Rhyperior, Aggron, and the other rocks types...

What about Roserade? It did not seem broken to me. Ignoring usages (it's pretty high up their...) I would not think it would break UU.
 
Roserade was removed from the tier because it became OU before it was voted off, if I remember correctly. Her LO set pretty much dominated anything barring Registeel.
 
PK Gaming said:
But enough about Dusknoir, I myself would like to move onto Weavile. What makes it (her?) so powerful.

Despite SD, and high speed her moves themselves are weak. (She literally does not have a move that deals over 120 damage)
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Well that would depend on the defending Pokemon. The likes of Registeel, Regirock, Steelix, Rhyperior, Aggron and Hariyama would all take 120 base power, and possibly anything that boosts up more than once or twice. Not sure what you mean by 'over 120 damage' though.

I guess the reason people are hyping / would hype Weavile is the fact that it is also very difficult to check on top of not being the easiest of Pokemon to wall. All speculation though, there is no way that it should be banished from UU without a fair test if the situation were to arise. And I doubt even that.
 
From all the posts it's quite evident that most players find Hippowdon broken(kinda) in uu. All the same if normal tiering via usage is followed according to the Jan statistics its going to be the first one down here in uu along with smeargle and ninjask.

For that matter what are the chances of Ninjask and Smeargle settling down in uu?
 
I cannot see Smeargle settling down in UU at all. In UU, his crappy stats are much less of a disadvantage, an his insane movepool screws the standards over in new and exciting ways. And if both of them fell down, we'd be in for a period chock full of BP teams >.<
 
I used a Smeargle lead in the very brief time in which I played the very first "new UU" metagame. It's pretty fun. I was sad to see it go (due to OU usage).

EDIT: Also, MAN, I know this is the first time I've ever entirely followed a UU megathread, but you guys talk a LOT.

EDIT 2:
FlareBlitz said:
We always get random "suspects" from people, like Milotic and Azumarill, every metagame. I dunno, I thought the nom paragraphs were supposed to keep that sort of thing away, but it might be better to just ask directly for suspect paragraphs and put the ones that get good paragraphs to a vote and skip the nomination process entirely. I really don't see any disadvantage to that method.
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Say we do that. Then each person writes paragraphs for the Pokémon that they think is BL. Then, when the Pokémon are nominated, only the people who wrote the BL paragraphs would make the voter list for each Pokémon. In all likelihood, all the suspects are unanimously voted BL.
 
Actually, I've been using Sneasel as a lite version of Weavile in the tier and can say for certain that it would be crazy in UU, since Sneasel's strategies are so easy to use in UU. As SJCrew said, though, it will probably not be dropping anytime soon.
 
Smeargle was quite good in the first iteration of newUU, for those of us that remember it. It got up spikes reliably, and could usually incapacitate a pokemon or two.
 
I think Smeargle was about to get banned until he was moved up. Anyways, I've used a team with Sneasel this round... not to terrific success however. Nevertheless, I used a Ice Shard/Punishment/Assist/ Swords Dance set. Why assist? Because I had a team full of Close Combat users as well as Parasect (Spore). The only downside to the set was the lack of a sufficient dark move. Punishment, ironically, doesn't cut it.
 
Let's look at the new pokemon who _might_ come down!

HIPPOWDON: It's a better Donphan, trading Rapid Spin for Eternal Sand. If this thing comes down, Damp Rock's ban would be trivial, since if DAMP ROCK was banned for an extra 3 offensive turns, imagine what would happen to an eternity of sand for stall?

I'm leaning towards BL, but of course, must see it first. (I STILL don't think Raikou's BL after the initial hype, btw. I still think you overestimate him by letting him get a sub/CM up before you can switch in a counter).

DUSKNOIR: Inferior to Cresselia, slightly superior to Spiritomb. And looking back, Spiritomb was once considered broken! Yeah. (We were idiots at testing back in Round 1 of newUU though) Naw, I don't think it will live up to it's hype. It will be on a lot of teams early on though.

UU almost certainly.

TENTACRUEL: ...Wasn't he in the Old UU at one time? I think he was. He seems broken in no ways, as a lot of stuff still runs EQ in UU. Good tool for stall teams though.

UU.

HERACROSS: He can OHKO EVERYTHING in OU with SD and a Burn orb with Facade, Night Slash, and CC. Problem is the same here though: he can't outspeed, and priority is death. Great wallbreaker though.

UU until proven BL.
 
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