Team Renegade

Kryuell

For those who don't know me, I'm Kryuell. I've been competetive battling for a while now, and after an unfortunate mishap with my Nintendo DS (dropped down a flight of stairs) I have come back to Netbattle.

I know Smogon is filled with a lot of pros, so I hope to further improve my team with your help. As it is, I win most battles anyway. But there is always room for improvement, and I also wanted to post some of my unique tactics/movesets for you guys to take from if you wish to.

For the record, I am no noob. Far from it. All my sets have been tested and approved by using them in plenty of OU battles.

Anyway all good suggestions are welcome.

At a glance:
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So let's look at the team in more detail, shall we?

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REDEYE JEDI
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Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Trait: Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 128 SDef / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Hypnosis
- Stealth Rock

Heatproof ensures Fire Blast from infernape, arcanine, heatran, azelf etc doesnt KO him and allows Bronzong to put them to sleep with Hypnosis. Sets up SR, very simple. By the time the opponment figures out Heatproof, Bronzong has already exploded so don't give me the whole "levitate noob" argument please... The 4 Speed EVs are to ensure outspeeding of other Bronzongs, so I usually win the 'Hypnosis battle'. Lum Berry is used to counter No Guard Machamps, since Dynamicpunch won't confuse and my Hypnosis won't miss. I sometimes use Rotom to scout for Magic Coat, however.

Sky
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Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 192 Spd / 64 SAtk
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Extremespeed
- Superpower
- Roost

IMO the best way to use Dragonite that isn't stalling/support. This set takes advantage of all Dragonite's unique qualities as an OU Dragon. Draco Meteor delivers excellent damage combined with STAB and Life Orb. Superpower takes care of Blissey, Magnezone, Tyranitar etc. Extremespeed allows Dragonite to do some serious revenge killing. The Speed EVs are to ensure outspeeding of Jolly Tyranitar with 252, and Timid Magnezone w/out Choice Scarf. Roost is simply to heal off Life Orb recoil, Sandstorm and Stealth Rock damage.

Cascade
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Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Def / 176 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Surf
- Wish

A different take to Vaporeon. Heal Bell is used mainly to cure paralysis on Dragonite or Rotom, or if Donphan spins away Toxic Spikes and gets poisoned in the process. Surf is just to dent pokemon like Foretress and Swampert, and score the odd kill. Wish support is always great to have for Rotom, Donphan and Dragonite especially. I don't run Bold nature because I would rather boost Vaporeon's much higher SpDef rather than a small bit of Defense. Protect simply helps out Wish, aswell as scouting for things like Grass Knot on Starmie/Latias.

Cannon Biatch
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Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

Bulky Offense at it's best. This Rotom is designed to come in on Bullet Punches, Earthquakes, Close Combats, etc, then retaliate with the appropriate move. Will-O-Wisp is invaluable for crippling Scizor, Swampert and things like Gliscor or Lucario. Unless, of course, I can finish them off with one of Rotom's Dual STAB moves. Overheat blasts Scizor and Magnezone to kingdom come, but if I use thunderbolt instead sometimes I can scout for Heatrans. The 4 speed EVs simply let me outspeed other Rotom forms with no speed investment.

Blade
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Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Technician
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Def / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
- U-Turn

Standard SD Scizor with some Def investment. Not much to say. I ran lefties because Scizor covers a lot of my teams weaknesses and needs to stay on the field longer. The 20 Speed EVs allow him to beat Blissey (Can't riskbeing slower due to some Blisseys carrying flamethrower) I decided to switch back to U-Turn for scouting, and because I was sick of being trapped by Magnezone when I used Bug Bite.

Bulls On Parade
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Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 172 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Counter
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin

Donphan is incredibly under rated to be honest. 297 Attack, 350 Def and 384 Hitpoints, you simply can't go wrong. Ice Shard is good for taking out Dragons, as Donphan takes little damage from thier physical attacks. Counter also works great against Scizor, or if a team member is KO'd by outrage, Donphan comes in with the Counter. Wish support also helps him get another counter in, and Wish/Heal Bell support eliminates the need for rest. Earthquake is the STAB weapon of choice with Donphan. And unlike his Icy brother, Mamoswine, Donphan gets access to Rapid Spin.


Summary
Overall, my team is based on bulky offense and relys on some crippling tactics too. A bad switch/prediction can quite easily cost me a team member. In terms of leads, my main problems are Taunt leads. But Taunt Gyarados is taken care of by Rotom, Weaville by Scizor, and Azelf usually by Rotom or Vaporeon (Rotom if I see an explosion coming) Sometimes I rely on unpredictability, such as with Dragonite, and Heatproof on my Bronzong, so once my opponment knows my team, it sets me at a disadvantage. However, in terms of offense, I am usually able to take out potential threats to the team. I never get 2 or more pokemon sweeped by one opponment usually due to the fact I have three relatively strong Priority moves at my belt (LO Extremespeed, Technician Bullet Punch and Ice Shard) so my team has little need for Scarfers. Defensively, I can safely switch in to something 99% of the time, always making sure that the most common of moves are walled, and the incoming threat taken care of. Vaporeon takes in Surfs, Ice Beams and Fire Blasts, aswell as Meteor Mash. Scizor stops grass and poison moves, as well as the odd Crunch aimed at Rotom. Dragonite/Rotom stop Earthquakes, and Donphan absorbs thunderbolts and can retaliate to Electivire/Magnezone with Earthquake, and Zapdos with Ice Shard. I can have problems with Lucario sometimes, but without boosts, Donphan can KO him. Or on the switch, I have Overheat or Superpower at my belt. And Scizor can easily take care of sets that don't have blaze kick. If Lucario Crunches my Rotom, I know he probably won't have Ice Punch and can send in Dragonite, or if he Ice Punches, he won't have Crunch and Lucario becomes Rotom's Biatch XD.


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So that should be enough information about my team. Any questions/comments/ratings just post them

Thanks for reading

//Kryuell
 
Threat List

Azelf
Psychic walled by Scizor, Bronzong. As mentioned in the above post, Fire Blast will do little to Bronzong. Rotom can come in on Explosions, and if he doesn't explode, Rotom can simply Shadow Ball him. Sash sets are picked down to low HP and he is finished off by one of my many priority moves.

Alakazam
An uncommon sweeper in Over Used, but Scizor's bullet punch OHKO's Kazam 100% with Stealth Rock damage. Dragonite's Extremepeed also KOs Alakazam 95% of the time without Stealth Rock, and 100% with it. Bronzong can also come in on Psychics and use Earthquake.

Salamence
Dragon moves walled by Scizor. Fire moves walled by vaporeon. All physical variants are easily taken care of by Donphan. If Bronzong is alive and well, and Stealth Rock is up, he can explode too if a Salamence tries to Fire Blast.

Gyarados
Dragonite's thunderbolt OHKO's, but the Dragon Dance sets are beaten by Rotom. (switch in on the DD, then thunderbolt. only a critical hit from Gyarados would stop Rotom) Vaporeon can Toxic/Wish against Gyarados that don't use rest. If he is asleep, however, it is safe for Dragonite to come in, since the Rstlk sets don't pack Ice Fang or Stone Edge most of the time. Taunt Gyarados sets usually try to come in and Taunt Bronzong, by then I have already set up SR and simply Explode on him when he taunts.

Jolteon
Thunderbolt stopped by Donphan. Specs sets are forced to switch, and other sets are unable to KO with hidden power, and will get killed by Earthquake. If a specs set is using Hidden Power, it will usually be ice or grass, both of them resisted by Scizor. If a jolteon is even slightly dented and manages to KO one of my team members, Dragonite can revenge kill with Extremespeed.

Electivire
If he comes in on scizor, which is very likely because of Electivire's resistance to Bullet Punch, then I can stop Fire Punch/Flamethrower with Vaporeon, then when he tries to Thunderpunch, Donphan comes in. That's when Donphan takes little damage from Ice Punch thanks to great Defense, and KOs with Earthquake. If Electivire is going to Cross Chop/Thunderpunch/Earthquake, then I can also use Rotom and Will-O-Wisp, which will stop him in his tracks for the rest of the battle.

Zapdos
Rotom can come in on Thunderbolts, and cripple with Will-O-Wisp for those roosting sets. The sweeping sets can be hit hard by thunderbolt, and I can Shadow Ball if a Zapdos is faster and I see a roost coming. If a zapdos comes in to Heat Wave scizor, which is very likely indeed, then Dragonite can come in on that, and unleash mayhem with Draco Meteor. When Zapdos attempts to Roost Dragonite simply picks him off with Extremespeed. The bulky sets I simply plant a Toxic on with Vaporeon, since the bulkier sets can't even 2HKO him sometimes. Also, Donphans Ice Shard comes in handy.

Latias
If I predict a Latias switch in, Scizor's U-Turn will simply KO her. So will Dragonite's Draco Meteor. The scarf sets are walled by the appropriate pokemon (Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse by Scizor, HP Fire by Vaporeon/Dragonite, Thunderbolt by Donphan/Rotom and Surf/Ice beam by Vaporeon.) and get a free turn on the inevitable switch. Non scarfers are usually taken care of with one of my priority moves. Calm Minding sets are stopped by Vappy's Toxic.

Tyranitar
Scarf/Band sets are stopped by Donphan (if a stone edge is coming) or Scizor (If a crunch is coming) or Vaporeon (If FirePunch/Blast is coming). Dragon Dancing Tyranitar's are stopped by Donphan usually, thanks to his high Def, typing, and access to Earthquake and Counter. Slower Sub sets are simply stopped by Scizor. U-Turn to break the sub and wall the incoming attack with Donphan, then finish with Earthquake. Most sets are simply OHKO'd by Dragonite's Superpower, since he is EV'd at 244 speed, enough to beat Jolly Tyranitar with max speed.

Blissey
Vappy's toxic is used to scare a switch after a few turns, and it also bides me time to use Heal Bell and Wish to support my team. But KO-ing Blissey isn't a problem, thanks to Scizor and Dragonite's superpower. If Bronzong is still around I can simply Explode if nessessary.

Gengar
The leftovers and Scarf sets are checked by Rotom-H, thanks to his bulkyness to resist Shadow Ball and fire one straight back. Usually, Scizor does the job with Bullet Punch. If someone sends in a Gengar when I have Dragonite out, predicting an extremespeed, I can suprise them with Draco Meteor and KO Gengar the second he is sent out.

Weaville
Scizor can easily come in on Fake Out, Ice Shard/Punch and Night Slash, as well as the occasional Brick Break. Scizor simply Bullet Punches to finish off, although any half decent player WILL switch out of Weaville, which gives me a free turn to either scout with U-Turn, use Superpower (If I know they have Magnezone) or use a Swords Dance. If Scizor is dead then Donphan's high Def and HP helps me counter weaville with ease, as long as I don't switch in to an ice punch. If they have Ice Punch instead of Shard, Dragonite's Extremespeed is very useful too. Also, Vappy can come in on Ice Punch and Damage Weaville with Surf.

More threats will be added whenever... Any questions about threats don't hesitate to ask.
 
One of my questions is:

How long can that vaporeon be alive, even if it has more increased Sp.Def than normal, without the protect its kinda hard to wish stall some electric pokemons like Raikou or Jolteon (I still didn't make the damage calculations, but if you can provide them, or if you made them already it would be nice).

@Vaporeon is a nice way to cripple out some of your threats since it has Toxic, and if they got Life Orb its even easier to take them down.

@Lead Bronzong with Heat Proof, nice way to screw those LeadApes and Heatrans.

@Donphan, I dont belive that its UU, that damn shit used to screw me when I had my Raikou w/Choice Specs, I wasn't able to kill it with a since Hidden Power Grass (Its not stabbed and it has only 70 Base Power, but still).
Then with Ice Shard, its just too awesome. Prolly people will start overusing it in the future and it will turn BL/OU, something that wouldn't surprise me.

@Rotom, never seen such a EV setup like that, at least agaisn't the people I had some fights, the attack set its the standard Rotom set, no surprises at all

@Dragonite, It kinda reminds me Mix Salamence, but with stronger points since Mence doesn't have Thunderbolt to stop some water type pokemons, and Superpower to screw a Blissey. Also with the new HG/SS move, Extreme Speed, it becomes a good Revenge Killer.

@Scizor, Nothing to point at it, typicial Bulky Sword Dance Scizor.
 
Well, Vaporeon isn't really used to stall electrics, he is used to heal other members of the team generally, but he does earn some free turns with Toxic, which helps Wish. Unfortunately, even if I wanted protect, I would have to replace Toxic or Heal Bell, which would eliminate the whole point of Vappy being in the team. Because 90% of people run protect anyway, when they see a Wish being used, they assume i'm going to protect and switch/use a setup move. It can be a bit of a gamble. But generally, electic types are dealt with by Donphan or Rotom, rather than stalled. Heal Bell is needed anyway to heal poisons after Donphan spins away TS, and to heal Paralysis mainly on Dragonite, Vappy and Rotom itself. Also, to heal sleep once I've killed the opposing sleep inducer.

Donphan is great, yes, and used to be a lot more common than he is now, but I guess people just stoped using him probably because of the increase in bulky waters. Not to mention Latias becoming OU, so they have Surf and Energy Ball to fear. Also, Garchomp becoming uber eliminated the need to use a Donphan to wall his physical attacks then Ice Shard him. Also, Mamoswine has a STAB ice shard, aswell as higher attack and speed, which probably contributed to Donphan being less common.

Anyway, thanks for the rate.
 
Cherub Agent said:
why do you have uturn on sckzor instead of bug bite? You waste your boosts, and magnezone can be killed with superpower
Click to expand...

Like he said, your bulky SD Scizor should take off U-turn and put on Bug Bite.
Drop superpower for brick break, since your a SDer anyways.
 
Good idea, I never thought about the more damage Bug Bite can do... I'd rather keep superpower though because it KO's Magnezone, Heatran and Blissey without any boosts.

Unfortunately Scizor won't be able to scout as much anymore.. But I guess improved damage, aswell as a Bug Type attack without being forced to switch, and the possibility of stealing a berry are all positives.
 
tbh for this team i think forretress would completely work over donphan for a few reasons. you lack a second steel, and scizor isn't exactly the bulkiest, so dragons can severely hurt your team. forretress covers dragons to an extent, while being able to set hazards, spin, and check things you have problems with. as i mentioned before, he can lay hazards, which some of your pokemon greatly appreciate, like dragonite because it forces a ton of switches.

just a suggestion, good luck
 
Well, I have considered Foretress before. But since I already have two steels, and a Magnezone would have a jolly day eliminating half my team, aswell as the fact Donphan does well enough against Dragons. (Not to mention that Dragon's tend to pack Fire Blast for the sole purpose of defeating steels like Foretress)

Regardless, I tested out Foretress. But because of his same typing to scizor, and the fact he didn't stop Dragons as well as I thought he might, ironically, I was being forced to switch a lot more too. Not to mention getting rid of Donphan meant one less priority move for my team, which meant Dragon Dancing Salamence's had a lot of fun :/

Not to mention Donphan's typing allowed me to stop electrical attacks, whereas Foretress took pretty mean dents from a decent thunderbolt.
 
Have you considered using Roost over Bug Bite on Scizor? I use it on one of my bulky offense teams, and it adds sooo much to his survivability. Also, I use the same EV's and nature on my Rotom, only with: Shadow Ball / Will-o-Wisp / Rest / Sleep Talk. It give it more time to phaze.
 
I think I may have mentioned Roost on Scizor at one point. The reason I don't have it is because I want Scizor to last, but I don't want him to lose any of his attacking ability. I used to have Suicune before Vaporeon, and I figured Wish and Heal Bell support will help Scizor's survivability, aswell as letting me keep his coverage.

TwoBirdsOneStone xD
 
Ever consider Pain Split on Rotom-H?

I suggest replacing this with Overheat. Overheat is good at stopping steels but there are no steels that can effectively counter you anyway. I mean, since you have Will-O-Wisp anyway. The only Steel that would be a bother is Magnezone and if it's scarfed and uses Thunderbolt then you can switch to Donphan and if it's not then Dragonite will be able to stop it cold.

Pain Split is an effective way of sending him in later in case Vappy is gone. With the HP revival it can be harder for faster pokemon like Crunch Lucario to take you down.

A great and original team I love it
 
so yea, this team is okay, but i definitely think that i can make it better. My first suggestion, which you probably won't listen to since so many uninformed others have said otherwise, but you really need to drop superpower and bug bite on scizor for roost and u turn. The entire point of using bulky swords dance scizor is so that you can u turn out of rotom, gyarados, etc, and make them take stealth rock and u turn, as well as gaining momentum with a free switch in. Superpower is really of no use to you, except maybe when facing skarmory. Heatran and magnezone both outspeed and ohko as it is, so i mean who cares about them? I would also suggest 240 hp / 212 sdef / 56 hp adamant as the spread on scizor to help sponge lo gengar / latias / starmie's attacks. U turn / roost is far superior to bug bite / superpower.

Your dragonite is terrible, and awfully misused. Thunderbolt? Extremespeed is also awful on dragonite on anything except the anti lead. What does it ko that your other priority users don't? Gyarados is handily beaten by rotom, and that's the only thing that your other priority doesn't beat. Unless you're using bulky dragon dance with heal bell or anti lead, dragonite is far outclassed by salamence. His higher attacking stats, speed, and since you're using naughty then the defenses are a moot point, except that salamence functions as a lucario counter. You're going to fight me all the way on this, but i think you need to use new classic mixmence in that slot. Draco meteor / roost / flamethrower / brick break with 252 speed / 216 satk / 40 atk naive would fit far better then dragonite. He gives you a great switch into lucario, who oh by the way can ohko all of your pokemon after a single swords dance! He also provides more punch, and roost helps his staying power a lot.

Another suggestion to your lucario problem and lack of speed is to make rotom a 188 speed / 252 hp / 64 satk timid version with sub / will o wisp / pain split / thunderbolt to not only outspeed and either burn or thunderbolt lucario, but to give you another check to everything under 280 speed, and something that can decimate a lot of stall teams with the help of donphan to kill tyranitar. You could use shadow ball in place of thunderbolt, but taunt gyarados would have a field day with you then, as would things like vaporeon. speaking of vaporeon, yours is screwed up majorly.

Your vaporeon, at the moment, can't do anything. ANYTHING. If it wants to switch into a classic mixmence and eat the draco meteor for 60% and wish up to perfect health, it can't. If it wants to wall infernape, who you are desperately weak to, oh look it cant because infernape can 3hko at worst, most likely 2hko since you have that weird spread. Take off toxic and in it's place put in protect so vaporeon can actually be, you know, useful. You could also test roar over heal bell if you feel that gyarados is being too problematic, since rotom is a major pivot for you. You still have wish support to help rotom, donphan, and salamence to get back health. It helps with random things, like again sd lucario since they will have a harder time killing your rotom and salamence.

I know this is getting long, but you should try 'killing two birds with one stone', as you said by replacing both donphan and bronzong with a swampert. You get stealth rock and a bulky ground pokemon all in one fell swoop, lending you a free slot to do something to just patch up anything that seems to be a problem. Although you lack ice shard now, bullet punch beats any outrage locked mences, and swampert does a great job at phazing and providing a solid defensive switch into a lot of offensive threats that an offensive team such as yours would definitely love to have. When you support it with wish from vaporeon, it becomes really hard to break through your defensive core of vaporeon/swampert/rotom. I can't fathom why you aren't doing this already. Hydro pump over surf allows it to hit azelf really hard, but more importantly in makes skarmory a lot more hesitant about switching in and setting up those deadly spikes.

So this is my last thing here, and i know that i'm doing a lot, but it's pretty needed. Since we can do the job of two pokemon with one, we end up with a free slot which i think we can use to your advantage against offense. Offense can break through you pretty easily once it powers down vaporeon and forces mence out. I think something fast that is also bulky and a) has great type coverage or b) power would benefit you a lot. Some of the main pokemon i like here are life orb heatran and expert belt jirachi. Expert belt jirachi laughs at a lot of offensive teams, since rotom is their main counter and they also rely on it to beat scizor, which is wearing it down with u turn --> salamence to force out. Life orb heatran works so well with mixmence, as they both dislike bulky waters, as they can't quite ohko them but are ohkoed in return. Basically, your opponent chooses the lesser of two evils in having salamence or heatran rip massive holes in their team. i would test both out and see how it goes, and by the way choose thunderbolt on jirachi to nail gyarados, since swampert and friends are now major scizor bait since it has roost. gl with the team, sorry if it was tl dr
 
Zeyre@ I like your suggestion about Rotom-H. I'll test pain split out when I get back from college tonight.

Bad Ass@ Had only time to read the first two paragraphs really. I noticed Bug Bite did a lot worse that U-Turn did, as I kept getting trapped by 'Zone aswell as being unable to counter the opponment when I know for a fact they are going to switch. But how can you even say Superpower isn't needed? Yes, Magnezone and Heatran outspeed Scizor, but if you use something called prediction, then you hit them, as they usually try to absorb a bullet punch, hence the switch. Also, Blissey. Enough said. And your EV spread? What did I say in the above post, that I wanted Scizor to keep all his potential attacking abilities. And you're trying to make me get rid of his strongest attack, aswell as giving him no Attack EVs whatsoever?

And Dragonite is terrible? Like I said, all my original sets have been tested, so how dare you just roll in here and say that? Draco Meteor and Superpower combined allow me to 2HKO Hippowdon and Swampert..

*finish post later, gotta get to college*
 
*continued from last post*

Dragonite's extremespeed does do other things that the other priority moves doesn't. For example, is it smart to Bullet Punch or Ice Shard an Infernape? Also, Draonite's extremespeed does great damage combined with 403 Attack and Life Orb. I have replaced thunderbolt with Roost, however. And i'm sick of people who are so stubborn on Salamence. He doesn't do the same job as Dragonite, does he? Regardless of Salamence's max of 405 (That's a whole 2 more than Dragonite, omgz I know) Brick Break is pathetic compared to Superpower. Also, Salamence may be faster, but what can he do against a Jolteon/Zapdos with HP Ice? Nothing. He is outsped and killed. The point of having a PRIORITY move is the fact that Dragonite can hit first against anything that isn't ghost, and with great power too. Extremespeed is way stronger than Donphan's Ice Shard, so without it, how am I going to hit Electivire, Magmortar, Infernape, Gyarados or Zapdos etc for decent damage? Because most outspeed Salamence anyway. So don't you dare call my Dragonite terrible and misused.

I decided to swap Vaporeon's Toxic for Protect. Since I have WoW on Rotom, and because it allows Vaporeon to heal himself easily.

Also, the point of my Rotom-H is to be bulky, yet have good attacking power. This is known as Bulky Offense, which my team Summary clearly says. Hence why I maxed HP to a decent number since he has decent Def and Sp.Def as it is, and maxed Special Attack due to 75% of his moves being Special Attacks.

How would I be killing two birds with one stone by getting rid of Bronzong and Donphan for swampert? I would lose a spinner, and a sleeper, and an exploder. I would be simply gaining something with a weaker Surf than Vaporeon, weaker Earthquake than Donphan, and worse SR setup than Bronzong. Not to mention worse Def than Donphan, aswell as losing out on Ice Shard.

Some of your suggestions are good, but the rest are simply ignorant bull (excuse my french) crap. Sorry if I sounded harsh, but thank you for the good suggestions you gave me, they have helped improve my team a lot.
 
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