on the offense RMT

I created this team a while ago, when latias was still uber and when there weren't like 5 rotom formes in the metagame. This is my first team that was succesful, according to my standards back then. It peaked at a rating of about 1400 at the ladder. I'm posting this team because:

-I have 2 OU teams that are now way better

-I want to improve this team a bit because I really like it since it was my first good team. I also like how it plays.

So let's get started:

Team RageBlast

Team building process (if you don't care, then skip this part)

It's been a while since I made this team, but it went something like this. I did not want to use legendaries nor blissey (since I hate it, but I create every team with special care to kill it, so it's never a problem lol) and I hated stall.

I decided to make a team around an awesome late game sweeper. Swords dance lucario was perfect, and is arguably the best for this role.
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Since he’s a late game sweeper, he wants things to be weakened so he can finish them off with extremespeed. I decided to take a look at the highest attacking stats in OU, and found metagross and salamence at the top. These 2 also formed the metamence-combo.
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metagross.png
salamence.png


I still needed 3 more. As much as I hate blissey, I decided to take another fighting type. Heracross was a natural choice.
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metagross.png
salamence.png
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As if that wasn’t enough, I picked another fighting type, mainly because close combat is such a great move and if my opponent doesn’t have a good fighting resistance or when it’s eliminated, they might just fall to close combat. I picked gallade for it’s enormous attack.
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metagross.png
salamence.png
heracross.png
gallade.png

Now I needed a lead. Stealth rock is very important for my strategy, allowing all my attacks to more easily OHKO and 2HKO things. I wasn’t satisfied with the OU stealth rock leads, and I went with nidoking. It’s also my favorite pokemon.
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metagross.png
salamence.png
heracross.png
gallade.png
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Now I had to come up with some sort of sequence to put my team in. I decided to put them chronologically in the order they usually do their part of the onslaught.
nidoking.png
metagross.png
salamence.png
heracross.png
gallade.png
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edit: swapped gallade and heracross for flygon and starmie, because these 2 don't fit in todays metagame.

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metagross.png
salamence.png
flygon.png
starmie.png
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In depth:
034nidoking.jpg


Nidoking @ life orb
nature: modest
ability: poison point
EV's: 96 hp / 252 sp. atk / 160 speed
-Stealth rock
-earth power
-ice beam
-flamethrower

Comment: nidoking is a decent stealth rock lead, however sometimes it can't get rocks up and sometimes it's immediately killed, the reverse might very well be true. Nidoking is a bit tricky in OU, it's usually a win or lose.
The power of nidoking lie in the moves.

Earth power is good stab and KO’s heatran and metagross, even shucka berry ones, because it’s on the special side, which comes to most people as a surprise (and I attach a high value to surprise). Flamethrower is especially useful for the steels who are not hit by earth power. Ice beam is also useful against dragons who would see nidoking as set-up bait. Unimpressive stats, but with a modest nature and 252 special attack EV’s, a life orb and a good deal of super effective moves make nidoking fun to use.

With these 3 moves I can deal heavy damage if given the chance. It’s not rare that I literally KO half my opponent’s team with nidoking because they don’t know which moves I’m using. Stealth rock is sometimes almost filler. It outspeeds all non-scarfed tyranitar. Nidoking usually doesn’t survive long and dies before or in mid game, since I tend to play it suicidally (like I tend to play everything).


376metagross.jpg

Metagross @ choice band
nature: adamant
ability: clear body
EV's: 248 hp / 252 atk/ 8 speed
-explosion
-bullet punch / changed it to pursuit
-meteor mash
-earthquake

Comment: Metagross is simply amazing. Every time I use it, it amazes me. It has an enormous attack, good bulk and bullet punch to make up for its low speed, combine this with a 120 base power stab move, earthquake for super effective hits and explosion to destroy whatever would give me a problem.
It's the first component of my wallbreaking combo metamence. Explosion really is important to beat stuff I would otherwise fall to. Pursuit gives me a new way to deal with latias, rotom and starmie, it's overall a better choice for the team.

It’s banded, because I don’t want life orb recoil on something as bulky as this, since it often survives for a long time, and I like choice items. EV’s are pretty self-explanatory. Bulk and power
373salamence.jpg

Salamence @ life orb
Nature: rash
Ability: intimidate
EV's: 80 atk / 252 sp. atk / 176 speed
-draco meteor
-fire blast
-brick break
-roost

Comment: Not much to say about mixmence, since everyone knows it. Draco meteor is the most important move, fire blast hits steels and brick break makes sure I don't get walled by pink fat gay blobs. It's very good, but every good team has a way to deal with salamence, even then, he hurts a lot. Latias can revenge kill it nowadays, but at least it can't come in on it.


flygon.png

Flygon @ choice scarf
nature: jolly
Ability: levitate
EV's: 4 hp / 252 atk / 252 speed
-outrage
-earthquake
-thunderpunch
-U-turn
Comment: Flygon saves me from gyarados and dragons. The only problem is that it doesn't hit hard, besides with earthquake and outrage. EQ is easily avoided, and outrage usually puts me in a bad position, making flygon set-up bait, against empoleon for example.



starmie.png

Starmie @ life orb
nature: timid
ability: natural cure
EV's: 4 hp / 252 sp. atk / 252 speed
-surf
-ice beam
-thunderbolt
-recover

Comment: Starmie is decent, but it doesn't hit that hard either, but on the other hand, it can use recover and has natural cure to stop some status.



ghosts may appear troublesome to the team, but they really aren't, they usually die fast, even now that rotoms are common.

At first glance it appears to function similarly to heracross, and while this is partly true, they are used and EV’ed in a completely different way. Heracross is used for more a bulky role to take a hit or status with sleep talk and hp EV’s. gallade is more used as a revenge killer and might come in on a special attack with 115 base special defense, although it has low hp (68 base stat).

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Lucario @ life orb
Nature: adamant
Ability: inner focus
EV's: 252 atk / 4 def / 252 speed
-swords dance
-extreme speed
-close combat
-crunch

Comment: Lucario is the one the whole team fights for. It would suck if he couldn't finish the game after the opponent is weakened, but he has no problems doing that.

i try to keep him out of battle as long as possible, or when I feel the time has come. If I bring him in too early, he usually falls quickly without doing anything good resulting in a loss for me.

EV’s are straightforward, the moves as well, swords dance on anything that doesn’t pose a large thread to it, extremespeed to finish, stab close combat to things it can’t KO with extremespeed and crunch is necessary for ghosts. Ice punch is a waste since most gliscor and salamence outspeed it and KO it. A boosted extremespeed should finish off a weakened gliscor and salamence. Everyone knows how this standard lucario works, but in the endgame where everything has been weakened due to the powerful attacks of the rest of the team, not many have enough power and hitpoints left to stop it, allowing me to win easily. The best support I can give this lucario is as much damage as possible and stealth rock. It doesn’t need anything else.
Overview:

The team plays as his name. I try to overwhelm my opponent, which almost always works to a certain degree. The feeling the word RageBlast gives is a good feeling for how this team plays. It also often plays with me like ah #@^{, I have nothing to beat my opponent, and then I win eventually.

I only have a few non-direct attacking moves, stealth rock, roost, sleep talk and swords dance, where only roost is a defensive move. I have 3 choice items, but it doesn’t bother me since I have the bulk, speed and power to come in and kill (thanks to the items).

So this is what I try to do to deal damage, when I'm not revenge killing, absorbing status or anything else, in this order and if everything goes perfect:

-nidoking as a suicidal lead

-metamence to break walls after that, since they have great synergy, even if I'm unsure about a counter to salamence, I can switch to metagross.

-Heracross and gallade help each other well and can hit hard once their fighting resistance is gone.

-lucario as the finisher.

Status is taken care off by heracross and thunder wave by nidoking. Spikes aren't a problem and toxic spikes are funny. Nidoking removes it, metagross, lucario and salamence don't mind it, gallade doesn't hate it either and heracross likes it.

I didn't create this team with looking at a thread list though. I try to play on surprise, hard hits, speed and resistances.

things I have encountered trouble with:

Basically water types, water attacks since only salamence can resist them, rain dance (kingdra and ludicolo) in particular is hard to beat, if not unbeatable.

Full stall and stockpile hippowdon especially give me problems since a whole bunch of walls is hard to break through. When I created this team nobody used a stockpile hippowdon though.

The not perfect accuracy moves backfire once in a while. This is usually not a problem, but twice in a row means I'm usually screwed against an intelligent player.

these are my biggest issues.

So to improve it, make it modern, I'm open to any suggestions, critisicm and opinions. It used to be good to my standards but it's not anymore, so I want to improve it.

Things I was thinking about to change were heracross and gallade, or giving one of them a choice band (heracross) or something, or completely remove them, since they sometimes disappoint me.
That's about it, hope you like it.
 
Currently a fast Scarfer like Jirachi or even a CS Heatran (which outruns your Heracross) can KO half of your team. I will try my best to help this team reach its full potential. Your current Team has 1/2 of it weak to fire attacks and 1/2 weak to ground. These types are very common so some changes will have to be made.

Suggestions

Nidoking: well this is a pretty nice anti-lead however short of making even bigger changes to the team I feel that it must go. Gliscor, swampert or Azelf I believe would be good choices as they are immune or at the very least, not hit super-effectively by Earthquake.

Salamence: Its fine and a nice set.

Lucario: It is also fine.

Metagross: it is pretty good as well authough I would like Pursuit on its moveset somewhere(maybe instead of bullet Punch?) so it can hit fleeing pursuit bait pokemon (eg Latias Ghost types etc) this will help Lucario sweep.

Both Heracross and Gallade I feel are not needed in this team and other team members can be utalised better in your team.

Heracross: I think that a Heatran with a chioce Scarf attached would be very helpfull for your team. It walls Jirachi so Jirachi cannot use a scarf to hurt your team,and it takes Fire Attacks directed at Metagross or Lucario. It also gives you a relyable Revenge Killer.

Lastly Gallade: One pokemon that stops Lucario cold is Gliscor, therefore a pokemon such as Offensive Suicune or Starmie can help take down Gliscor and also check Heatran (suicune more relably than starmie) Starmie gets a special meantion as it is pursuit bait which actually helps Lucario as it can set up on a pokemon locked into Pursuit and sweep.

Well thats it, feel free to use some, none, or all, of my Suggestions, test them out, see how they go and give us the results
Gl with the team
 
Hey what's up Blastburner?

Few suggestions of mine.


Nidoking: Pretty fast pokemon, but you currently have 3 things on your team that don't take ground moves fairly well, so what I recommend you changing to something that can levitate and has a fair amount of speed to blend in with your team is the popular lead Azelf, Reason being also is that your lead Nidoking is also Special, so it can fit it's spot very well with synergy. So here's the set and EVs you might want to try.

Azelf @ Focus sash
Nature: Naive
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset: Taunt, Stealth Rock, Fire Blast, Explosion

Easy set, Taunt is to stop something from setting up Stealth rock, Stealth Rock is to remove all focus sashes and do a little amount of damage to any pokemon that comes in, pretty standard. Fire Blast is for the top leads like Metagross, Jirachi, Roserade. And Finally explosion is to use after you're done with Azelf, to do major damage to any current lead.

Metagross: It's great that yours is a choice bander. What I'm wondering about is why you chose those current EVs, you didn't explain why but the recommended EVs that'll help you is 252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe. Other then that Metagross is looking completly fine.

Salamence: Looks fine, Keep it.

Heracross: It's a forgotten pokemon for a reason, it just doesn't adapt to todays current Metagame. Also, Gliscor walls the hell out of it. Just not a reliable scarfer anymore. The other reason I recommend you changing it is that Your team get destroyed by common Dragon dancers namely Gyarados and Salamence, so you might want change it to a popular scarfer that fits your team well is Flygon, reason being takes care of those Dragon dancer. So here's the EVs and set:

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spd
Moveset: Outrage, Earthquake, Uturn, Thunder Punch


Simple, Outrage is for those dragon types, trying to dragon dance. Earthquake is for Heatran, Lucario, Tyranitar, Metagross, Jirachi etc. Uturn is just to see if they're going to switch to something so you could get the upper hand. Thunder punch is for mostly Gyarados, and some bulky waters.

Gallade: As I say again, it's forgotten for a reason. You currently had 3 fighting types in your team. You don't really need that much Lucario does fine by itself. You might want to change Gallade, because you currently lack Sp.attackers since Mixmence is mix, and after your lead is done, since it's a suicide lead, you don't really have an option and you can be walled by many Physical walls namely Forretress, Gliscor, Skarmory, Hippo etc. So what I recommend you changing it to to help the synergy of your team is Rotom appliance, reason being now you have 4 things that aren't affected by ground attacks, and 2 pokemon who the ones who don't take it good, and it all comes out to help your Lucario sweep, so here's the moveset and EVs you might want to try.

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 128 HP / 168 SpA / 212 Spe
Moveset: Subsitute, Charge beam, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt


The reason I recommend you using the boosting sweeper set because you don't have anything Special that can setup and attack. Subsitute is to stop all status. Charge beam is the attack, that might give you a hand to sweep, Shadow Ball is for all those Phychic and ghosts types, Since Latias can take Electric attacks all day. And finally Thunderbolt is for Bulky water types and it's the best stab move you currently have, so you can go for max damage.

Lucario: Nothing to change, looks perfect on your team

Good luck and hope my analysis will help you.
 
Metagross: It's great that yours is a choice bander. What I'm wondering about is why you chose those current EVs, you didn't explain why but the recommended EVs that'll help you is 252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe. Other then that Metagross is looking completly fine.

I like your suggestion for the EV changes, but I would like to note that Pursuit is quintessential for trapping the Rotom forms, as I'm assuming he wants Lucario sweeping late-game. You have two choices you can switch it over, Explosion or Earthquake. Obviously, Explosion will help more with breaking walls, but I have a feeling Rotom will tend to switch in quite a bit against Metagross. Since neither of these help against Rotom, I'd suggest you switch Earthquake to Pursuit.

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 128 HP / 168 SpA / 212 Spe
Moveset: Subsitute, Charge beam, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt


The reason I recommend you using the boosting sweeper set because you don't have anything Special that can setup and attack. Subsitute is to stop all status. Charge beam is the attack, that might give you a hand to sweep, Shadow Ball is for all those Phychic and ghosts types, Since Latias can take Electric attacks all day. And finally Thunderbolt is for Bulky water types and it's the best stab move you currently have, so you can go for max damage.
I'm not sure I agree with you here either. Most of the time, this set is used when in conjunction with Toxic Spikes. As the point of this team is for Lucario to sweep, I'd much rather this set be changed to a Rest/Sleep Talk/Thunderbolt/WoW set. This should provide more insurance against sweepers and will aid in weakening Pokemon for when Lucario decides to sweep.

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP/156 Def/8 Spd/96 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp
- Sleep Talk
- Rest


The suggestions that Abutorn made will probably make the team better, but it really just looks like you threw six Pokemon together. Now, is there anything wrong with that? Of course not, we've all been there. However, I would advise you to take a look at the great Battling 101 academy we have here on Smogon. There, you'll learn about the systems it takes to building teams and how to battle correctly.

I wish you the best of luck in the future.
 
Already 2 helpful posts :)

This is the first time I ask with team building, and it already gives me new insights in my own way of thinking. I'm also going to stop thinking I don't use pokemon x for whatever reason, cause this is competitive.

Both you posts made me realise that the 'core' of this team is lucario, backed up with salamence and metagross. Thank you.

@ ginganinja:

I remember scarf jirachi haxing half my team once...
Heatran is usually not that much of a problem. Lead heatran is taken care off by earth power, even shucka ones, scarfers are a bit trickier, but gallade can close combat it, and being locked in one attack makes it overall easy to handle, but it does lots of damage to the team though.
Actually ground and fire attacks aren't so bad to deal with, it's water because I only have salamence to resist it and it's weak to ice.

You made me realise that although my nidoking is a good lead, it doesn't really help my core, besides stealth rock. I'm definitely going to try some more common leads you mentioned.

I'm also going to try pursuit on metagross.
I might try heatran, but flygon seems better.
Starmie is a great idea, both for the pursuit bait and it gives me a way to absorb status, which I attach value to cause an offensive team can be stopped in its track. I also feel starmie has a more offensive approach fitting the playstyle of the team.

@ abutorn:

I might try azelf along with some other leads.

i actually forgot why metagross has these EV's. I placed them their in the past so I just took them over.

Flygon seems awesome. I'm definitely going to try him.

I feel rotom-H will help the team greatly, I'm not a big fan of the set you recommend me. Starmie can do the same, but has a more reliable way to deal with status and gives me a water resistance, but I'll try it if starmie would let me down.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.
 
You posted right before me, limitless.

@ limitless:
Getting pursuit over EQ would be stupid, I need earthquake to hit hard. I've gotten pretty good with CB metagross and I dare to say I predict well enough not to blow myself up on rotom. bullet punch really is the only move I can miss, as long as I have a revenge killer.

Explosion beats walls, I need it.

The rotom you recommend is even worse, meaning I would have to stall, and WoW wouldn't help me with anything I'm trying to achieve.

You think I just threw them together? You're partly right. My basic plan was good. SD lucario sweep is viable. I read something about metamence synergy and threw it in. I know realise why it works. The others were pretty random and do not help me with my strategy.

Thing is, the team did pretty good.
Too bad I created better teams, so this team has to change, since I like it. I just didn't have the courage to change these guys after they served me well, until someone tells me to.

1 more thing in general, I don't really need taunt on my lead, I don't really mind SR that much. I think I'm going for a high damage lead with SR. Nidoking still sounds fine, if the team can carry it's weaknesses.

Heracross and gallade suck now, when i created this team they weren't that bad though.

edit: I'm going to test a choice spec timid starmie with the obvious ice beam/surf/thunderbolt + sleep talk. Sleep talk because no1 uses it this way, making it a good surprise. The 4th move would be mainly filler anyway.

I'm also using a standard scarf flygon. Obviously, gallade and heracross are out.

re-edit: specs starmie doesn't fit, 3 choice items is too much, testing a life orb starmie with recover instead of sleep talk.
 
You posted right before me, limitless.
@ limitless:
Getting pursuit over EQ would be stupid, I need earthquake to hit hard. I've gotten pretty good with CB metagross and I dare to say I predict well enough not to blow myself up on rotom. bullet punch really is the only move I can miss, as long as I have a revenge killer.

Explosion beats walls, I need it.

Either way, the opponent will always switch Rotom in when you bring out Metagross/Lucario. If your overall intent is for Lucario to get a late-game sweep, then you need Choice Scarf Rotom out of the game, and this is why I suggested Pursuit. If you feel like you need Earthquake for bulky Water-types, then replace Bullet Punch with Pursuit, as you already have a priority user in Lucario.

The rotom you recommend is even worse, meaning I would have to stall, and WoW wouldn't help me with anything I'm trying to achieve.
Scizor and Gyarados completely run through your team. The set that I suggested deals with both of these, while still weakening the opponent's Pokemon for a Lucario sweep.

You think I just threw them together? You're partly right. My basic plan was good. SD lucario sweep is viable. I read something about metamence synergy and threw it in. I know realise why it works. The others were pretty random and do not help me with my strategy.

Thing is, the team did pretty good.
Too bad I created better teams, so this team has to change, since I like it. I just didn't have the courage to change these guys after they served me well, until someone tells me to.
You admit they don't provide you with synergy, yet you still remain loyal to your Pokemon. This is what we call confirmation bias. While you don't feel my suggestions were viable, I still stand by my rate.
 
Either way, the opponent will always switch Rotom in when you bring out Metagross/Lucario. If your overall intent is for Lucario to get a late-game sweep, then you need Choice Scarf Rotom out of the game, and this is why I suggested Pursuit. If you feel like you need Earthquake for bulky Water-types, then replace Bullet Punch with Pursuit, as you already have a priority user in Lucario.


Scizor and Gyarados completely run through your team. The set that I suggested deals with both of these, while still weakening the opponent's Pokemon for a Lucario sweep.


You admit they don't provide you with synergy, yet you still remain loyal to your Pokemon. This is what we call confirmation bias. While you don't feel my suggestions were viable, I still stand by my rate.

-I am testing pursuit right now, and it works. I just need EQ.
-gyarados usually dies to gallade thunder punch, unless their max speed.
-scizor is actually easy to deal with.
-nothing confirmation bias. I put this on to improve my old team. I was just stating I did not want to change this before cause this was my first somewhat decent team, until now, because it falls short to my other newer teams. Also notice the partly, it was in a phase in between.

Although I disagree with you, I appreciate the time you took to rate.
 
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