OU RMT,just got back

[Wind2008]

I just got back into Pokemon after a long break,and my team was way outdated-so I decided to look at the current metagame and see what I could do.

I set out to make a team based around pokemon that were both bulky and powerful,and after a lot of adjustments I decided to make a thread here to hopefully get some tips on general changes.


Changes so far:

Changed Jirachi to Scizor,just a better pokemon for this team.

Changed Metagross' EV's and gave him a Lum Berry(thanks corncake).

Gave Scizor Shed Shell instead of Leftovers(thanks again corncake).

Changed Jolteon's nature to Timid to outspeed afew things I wasn't able to before,gave it Life Orb for more dmg.

Changing to Scizor gave me a huge weakness to grass,I'm working on a fix..tried mixape and wasn't satisfied.

Changed my Dragonite to a DD MixMence,I love my DDNite,but the glaring weakness my team has to Pokemon like Celebi can't be ignored.

Dropped Rest on Suicune for Ice Beam to better deal with Latias.

Changed Machamp again,changed him back to 3 attacks and rest with a Chesto.

Made Suicune more offensive(thanks for the spread,Squidd).

Changed Metagross' EV's(thanks again,Squidd).

Made Scizor a CBander,not sure I like it yet..but for now it seems to be working better.

Changed Scizor's EV's(thanks,Setsuna). :3

Changed Jolteon to Latias.

Currently testing Jirachi vs Machamp.

Changed Machamp to Jirachi,you will be missed Falcon PUNCH.

Also testing Flygon for the Jirachi position.

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Gundam

Adamant nature.
Lum Berry
EVs: 224 HP /224 Atk/ 40 Spe

Stealth Rock | Bullet Punch | Meteor Mash | Explosion

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This guy is powerful,can usually set up SR's and take a Pokemon or two with him.
Really don't know what to say about him other then he sets up SR,kills things then explodes when things get rough.

I chose him because he's able to beat most common leads,and still get SR up and possibly take a second Pokemon with him via explosion,best lead I've tried so far for this team.

Against any lead not named Infernape or Heatran I stay in and don't switch if they don't change to a Rotom/other Pokemon that walls Metagross making his staying in pointless.

This pokemon rarely lasts over 7 turns,because I don't have the patience to switch him in and out..my goal with him is get rocks and KO at least 1 pokemon,I really don't like to keep him in very long.

If they switch into somthing I know is packing a fire move,or can KO me otherwise before I can explode on them,I will just switch him for an explosion later.
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Jolly nature.
Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Iron Head| Fire Punch | Ice Punch | U-Turn

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The revenge killer/late game sweeper and mid-game annoying little bastard.

It's here to support Scizor in scouting the enemy team out,to kill dragons that set up,and to revenge in general.

A second U-Turn on my team is just great,even if it does come off a low attack(compared to Scizor,anyway) and it just has good overall coverage,it solves my problems with CMRachi,and makes my team less prone to being swept.

I decided on Jolly to always at least always speed tie other base 100 scarfers(Flygon in particular.)

Machamp was in this slot,however I needed a more reliable revenge killer,so Jirachi got the job.

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Marie

Timid nature.
Leftovers
EVs: 172 HP / 120 Spa / 216 Spe

Calm Mind| Ice Beam | Surf | HP Electric

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Generic Suicune,there's no better bulky water.

Good defenses,ability to kill a lot of big threats to my team..he's a huge asset,and not many people expect 3 attacks,which is very helpful.

It is here to absorb damage and take out pretty much any thing I want dead,heart and soul of my team.

I find myself almost always just setting up and sweeping with him if the enemy doesn't have a really good counter,my goal in most games is to get either him or Mence in on a pokemon that can't touch them and get to work.
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Wings


Adamant nature.
Choice Band
EVs: 168 HP /176 Atk/ 160 SpDef / 4 Spd

Bullet Punch| Super Power | U-Turn | Pursuit

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Can take a hit and rip through unprepared teams,I chose him because he is just too good to pass up..really hard to say much about him since pretty much every team has one,pretty obvious why he's here.

He acts as a scouter/counter to a lot of dangerous Pokemon,and does an awesome job of weakening the enemy mid-game,very important member of my team and thanks to Setsuna's EV spread he's even more dangerous being an amazing counter to some huge Pokemon now.
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Triecc

Timid nature.
Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP /252 SpAtk/ 252 Spe

Draco Meteor | Surf | Tbolt | Recover

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Counters a lot of Pokemon that threaten my team,and also walls quite a few,good all-around Pokemon.

Comes in on things Suicune can't handle and Draco Meteor's them to oblivion,also helps lure out Ttars/Scizor's with double switches and makes life hard for the enemy in general.


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Over 9000


Naive nature.
Life Orb
EVs: 24 SpAtk /232 Atk/ 252 Spd

Fire Blast | Earth Quake | Outrage | Dragon Dance

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Salamence and Suicune are my late game guys,Mence often comes in after Machamp and Scizor have weakened the enemy team(or if I feel he can come in and sweep without being countered),the power house of my team.

He rarely gets shown to the enemy before I know their entire team,I don't like taking risks on losing him as he is my primary sweeper taking much less time to properly set up then Suicune.
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Threat List Copied from Polarr,who copied his from Team Sugarless Girl.


Has not been updated since the addition of Jirachi,I will update it when I have time.

Scizor: It's hard to name a counter to a pokemon that's made as a hit and run Pokemon,Salamence,Suicune and Latias(for CB variants that carry Pursuit this requires it to be locked into something else,obviously).

Salamence: Latias,Suicune,Machamp if it isn't DDMence.

Gyarados: Suicune,Latias,Machamp(to a lesser extent).

Rotom-Latias if it isn't Sub..if it is I have a problem,usually try and set up on it with Suicune.

Heatran: Suicune,Machamp can revenge.

Latias: Suicune if it isn't a CM Latias,Machamp

Metagross: Salamence

Lucario:Don't see this guy much,he isn't a huge issue though,Latias beats non-crunch variants,Machamp can take a non-boosted CC and ohko with Dynamic Punch,Mence can ohko with FB or EQ.

Infernape:Latias,Suicune if it is a special-based one.

Jirachi: Mence's FB if it doesn't have Ice Punch,Suicune can beat if it doesn't have Tbolt,Machamp beats ones that don't have Zen Headbutt.

Gengar: Suicune,Scizor,Machamp can take it if it gets a free switch but it can't handle it if it takes a Shadow Ball on the switch.

Swampert: Latias,Suicune

Blissey: Scizor,Mence(rarely risk the status),Machamp

Azelf: Almost always a lead,Metagross beats it with Meteor Mash then Bullet Punch,if it's not a lead it's most likely some weird LO/Scarf revenge killer thing,Scizor can trap it with Pursuit and I'm pretty sure Latias could beat most variants.

I've only seen Azelf on a non-lead role a hand full of times so I'm not very experienced with it.

Starmie:Suicune,Machamp

Gliscor: Suicune,Latias if it isn't carrying Ice Fang-I don't have a way to ohko the bulky variants,and since it's usually set up for support of some kind that's kind of bad,but I'm not bothered by it usually.

Vaporeon: Suicune,Latias

Magnezone: An issue for my team,Latias kind of beats it,but it usually takes something with it..luckily it isn't too common.

Kingdra:Suicune,Latias

Breeloom: If he comes in on Machamp he gets destroyed,if he doesn't I usually just let whatever pokemon he comes in on get spore'd and change to Scizor or Machamp to take him down.

Skarmory:usually spikes stall,I just do my best to hit it as hard as possible,Cune and Latias beat him easily if they can stay in a few turns.

Bronzong: One hell of a wall,nothing in my team can take him down easily other then Mence's FB..don't see it very often and when I do it's usually screen support so I just take the time to set up on something and pray it doesn't explode on me.

Celebi:Latias,Machamp if it isn't carrying Psychic

Flygon: Usually scarf,I use Scizor or Suicune

Suicune: My own Cune if it isn't carrying HP Electric,Latias if it isn't using Ice Beam,Machamp if I can get lucky with a bit of confusion.

Jolteon:Latias walls everything but shadow ball,and that's a 2hko..Suicune can beat it if it gets a free switch,Scizor's U-turn does a massive amount of damage.

Machamp can do well against it too.

Empoleon: EQ by Mence,Latias,Suicune(if it isn't carrying Grass Knot)

Forretress: Setup bait for Mence,I use 1 DD then if it stays in I FB it to hell.

Electivire: Latias

Togekiss: Latias,Suicune

Weavile:usually a revenge killer,I dunno really-I don't think it beats any of my pokemon other then Mence and Latias if they aren't crippled.

Aerodactyl: Always a lead,Metagross rips it to shreads.

Mamoswine: Suicune can wall it and kill with Surf.

Snorlax: Machamp,Mence

Dusknoir: Kind of hard to say,usually it's a physical wall with Will O Wisp,haven't met one yet that Suicune couldn't beat..but I'm not experienced against this pokemon.

Smeargle:If a lead,MMash followed by Bullet Punch,if not I just pray it switches in on Machamp so I can absorb the sleep and KO,if not I just have to have a crippled pokemon..

Ninjask: Usually a lead,if not it's going to be a sub passer so I just do as I feel best to beat the enemy,if they're stupid enough to switch in on Scizor I will BPunch 'till it's dead or passes,if not I just hammer it with whatever possible so it can't get any easy Swords Dances.

Tentacruel: Cune walls,Latias beats.

Dragonite:Latias is faster and can switch in on the predicted first DD,Suicune can easily wall anything it can throw at it after 1 DD

Hippowdon: Latias if it isn't a really weird set,Suicune

Roserade: Dunno,usually a lead which Metagross beats..if not I do as I see fit,which is run around like a chicken with it's head cut off pressing whatever I think will do best with what I have.

Scizor can kill with U-Turn,though I doubt I could get one off without being put to sleep,really not sure about this one.

Porygon-z: Not a big threat,Machamp can take anything and DPunch it away,Scizor can 2hko with Bpunch.

Cresselia: Rarely see,can set up a ton of CM's and kill it with Suicune if it doesn't have Toxic,Machamp can kill if it isn't carrying Psychic.

Heracross: Another Pokemon that's powerful but doesn't do a whole lot to my team,Machamp can kill and Suicune can probably beat it also.

Only faced 2 recently and they weren't an issue at all..I really don't have a proper counter to it but it's a non-issue.

Umbreon: Machamp

Alakazam: Dunno,it isn't an issue-Cune and Latias can beat without problems.

Zapdos:Latias,just have to pray Draco Meteor hits,otherwise it laughs at my team.

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Heatran and Magnezone are the biggest threats to my team right now,without a doubt.

Magnezone can beat almost every Pokemon on my team without problems.

Heatran's Fire Blast is super effective on 3/6 of my Pokemon,I usually just have to revenge with Suicune or Latias when one comes out,nothing likes to take a FB,even Suicune takes too much damage to be able to counter it.

Most other problems are covered,and this team is working very well for me.


Thanks for reading.

 

[Wind2008]

Bump,I changed Jirachi to Scizor because I felt it was a better Pokemon for the position,and I added sprites to make the thread more visually appealing,I also changed Metagross' Ev's.

 

[corncake22]

Ok here are my suggestions.
Metagross-Nothing wrong just maybe MM over explosion for the attack raise sometimes and Lum Berry over Life Orb. This will help you more in the long run. Smeragle spore sweeps will destroy you if you don't have Lum. EQ then next turn BP for the kill.

Machamp shouldn't really have much speed its really slow anyway. I recommend a more bulky spread of 252 hp/220 special defence/36speed. Bulkup will raise your attack and defence anyway so attack and defence evs will be pretty pointless.


Suicune is fine.

Scizor can run a shed shell just incase of magenzones. You have roost to heal anyway.

I think Jolteon is your weak link and I suggest you replace it too a scarf version with 4hp/252 SpA/252 Speed. Tbolt/Shadowball/HP Ice/Filler maybe baton pass. I know you don't use batonpass much but it can be a decent scouter. Unless baton pass is last priorty I forget. :S You can also have the same evs and spread for latias too.

Dragonite-More sweeping? I don't really think thats actually helpful. I recommend something more better which can deal with your ninjask,roserade,breloom,weavile, and kingdra problem. But you need something like Sub to do it. I recommend
4hp/252attack/252 speed. Jolly natured or Adamant I recommend Jolly. Life Orb with Subsuitute/FocusPunch/Dragonclaw/ExtremeSpeed.
Under a sub weavile can die with focuspunch. Ninjask gets Extremespeeded to death. Roserade can't do anything if it has sub up unless it has hp ice but still. You d-claw roserade HP ices and then you E-speed. Breloom same thing with Sub. Kingdra same thing. So you see this can help your problems.

I hope I helped :D

 

[Wind2008]

Ok here are my suggestions.


I think Jolteon is your weak link and I suggest you replace it too a scarf version with 4hp/252 SpA/252 Speed. Tbolt/Shadowball/HP Ice/Filler maybe baton pass. I know you don't use batonpass much but it can be a decent scouter. Unless baton pass is last priorty I forget. :S You can also have the same evs and spread for latias too.

I hope I helped :D

Are you sure?

Scarf seems pointless on a max speed Jolteon,only thing that will commonly outspeed me is Scarf Flygon,which isn't a huge issue for me..I think having the ability to switch attacks for late game sweeping is more useful?

I have Suicune for walling Heatran if a scarfed one of those comes in to kill,I just don't see a reason to cripple Jolteon's sweeping ability with a Scarf.

And you were very helpful,I've changed Metagross and Scizor and will check out the Dragonite set tomorrow. :)

 

[corncake22]

You have a slight weakness too DD mence and a extra counter won't hurt you anyway. Machamp if can survive it can kill DDmence but thats extremely risky and Suicune can take a hit or 2 but does nothing in return. You could have icebeam over HP eletric but taking out starmie could be a better thing.

Yeah the dragonite set has also gave me a few surprise kills on tyranitar and blissey. Smogon didn't have that set and I thought of it and I thought it was good. I should post this for a Smogon anaylze but enough of the bragging and

GOOD LUCK :D

PS: I think dragonite can 2-3 hit Rotoms.
PSS:Dragonite can 3 hit Swamperts.
PSSS:Jolteon can use HP grass instead of HP ice if swampert is that big of a problem.

 

[Misty Swims]

Since your Machamp knows Rest and Sleep Talk, I'd get rid of the Chesto Berry and add Leftovers.

 

[Squidd]

Only a very quick one from me...

Suicune

Change Suicunes spread to 172hp/120Spa/216spe. Timid. This allows for a leftovers number + a nice amount of bulk whilst outspeeding base 80s. I've found this to be a great spread over my Offensive Cune experience. Defensive Suicune does not suit your team anyway.

Metagross

Change Metagross' spread and moveset. Meta should nearly always have meteor mash to allow it to beat down the number 1 most used lead,Azelf. Thus i reccomend removing earthquake (you cannot hurt the fire types it is on the set for due to no Occa berry) and replace it with Meteor Mash. Earthquake is only really used if you want Meta to stick around for later. From your ..er...'description' I'd say you tend to boom it early. Next,change the EV spread. The smogon analysis evs give those defensive ones to survive an adamant dugtrios earthquake, which are too rare to consider using evs for it IMO. So here is a lovely little spread courtesy of me: 224hp/244atk/40spe. Your current spread never outsped other Metagross as the metagame has evolved. It will now outspeed those that hang around 32/36 evs which are common. the hp evs mean it is NEVER 2hkoed by a lead aeros earthquake or neutral nature azelf fire blast. what more can one ask for. The rest is dumped into attack for obvious reasons.

Machamp

Resttalk champ needs no speed evs,let alone the ones that you currently have as they outspeed nothing worth outspeeding....skarmory who machamp would usually aim to outspeed run alot more speed than OldTimez so really a spread of 252hp/252atk/4def or 4spe.def would be more useful. Also, I recommend replacing stone edge with payback, otherwise defensive rotom will wall half your team quite effectively (metagross,scizor,machamp). It also provides more PP than stone edge that you stated was an issue. Finally, drop the Chesto berry, pick up some Leftovers! (you have sleep talk...)

Scizor+Jolteon

I have to go bed soon...driving test tomorrow, so I am really cutting down on info now!
Anyway,I think changing these 2 pokes to CB scizor and SpecsJolteon will provide you with a strong offensive core that I think you'll find will wear down the opponent faster than your existing sets. SD scizor is great n all, but I find too much walls it because everyone over prepares for scizor in general, so powerful Uturns are the way to go. SpecsJolt also makes for a better lategame sweeper than your current set, as you lack power, whereas with specs you can spam hardhitting thunderbolts with little to no resistance at the end of the game if played correctly. SpecsJolt+CBScizor ftw....the EV spreads on the analysis page are fine (give jolteon HP grass as you lack a decent way of disposing of the PERT)

Salamence

Mixmence would work better for your team IMO as stall currently has its way with you. ;)hows that for short!


If you implement all the changes above...as a note I think sub+3 attack machamp warrants testing on your team. It complements specs jolt and cb scizor. Unless you could explain a bit better what use you are making out of the resttalk set.

To address the pokemon you say you have trouble with:

Breloom-Isn't setting up on anything bar Machamp if you choose to make it sub+3attacks. however, that obviously doesn't apply if machamp has a sub up. even SPECSjolt 2HKOs it with thunderbolt, meaning breloom can't switch in.

Ninjask-bullet punch is not a 2hko on all ninjask sets. the pure speed set gives a 3HKO IIRC. Depending on the damage you do to it with the first bullet punch (if you can 2hko,do it,if not,do the following..) you can to what will hopefully be a sub+3attack machamp to set up and start firing off attacks. subchamp really is so much better for your team...hint...

Roserade-Roserades days are numbered, however, metagross cannot always 2hko with bullet punch..doing around 45% - 53.8% depending on your exact attack EVs. Personally,i run earthquake over explosion on my lumgross to ensure i get the 2hko on it. however,i think you are going to keep explosion so if you have the balls, meteor mash then bullet punch it. (if you get earthquake on your set,by all means,use earthquake first turn instead) nearly all roserade try pitifully to sleep powder first turn EVEN against metagross (do they think it has FailOcca or something????) which allows you to remain unscathed.

Weavile-An absolute non issue for your team. Metagross OHKOs. Machamp OHKOs. Scizor OHKOs. Jolteon OHKOS 100% of the time with stealth rock(YOUR CURRENT JOLTEON SET DOES NOT.73% MINIMUM ALLOWING 2% BREATHING ROOM ;O;O). Suicune is far too bulky for Weavile, you can set up on it unless it is SD in which case you 2hko it while it SDs and does 64.8% - 76.6% with night slash. Mence won't beat it, but Weavile will certainly not set up on it(unless of course you switch out letting it SD...in which case you can go to metagross or scizor to BP it.)

Er yeah. Please ignore my TERRIBLE grammar as I really didn't have the time to write perfect paragraphs. I hope what I said helps. GL

 

[Wind2008]

Bump,I've changed a lot of things.

I don't like that the team has gone from what was a team based on having a lot of bulky,yet powerful Pokemon to pretty much being a lot of offensive Pokemon that happen to have good defenses,but it's working out.

I'm noticing Jolteon is getting used a lot less after all these changes,mainly because Suicune can do a lot better against most things..Jolteon usually only sees use after Suicune is KO'd,if a Rotom comes out or if I know a Tbolt is coming.

Is there a better pokemon for Jolteon's spot?

It would need to be able to counter:Swampert,Rotom,Zapdos and ghost types in general.

Thanks a lot for the various tips Squidd,very helpful.

 

[EastBayTrainer]

I test played your team a little on shoddy and Jolteon was almost NEVER used... Meta,Mach and Scizor won most of the matches, Suicune and Salamance did thier part when needed but Jolteon was bleh...

I tried

Mixed Sweeper Togekiss
Naughty
Life orb
Hustle
252 Atk / 148 SpA / 108 Spe
~ ExtremeSpeed
~ Aura Sphere
~ Flamethrower
~ Roost

GREAT mix up and covers most of your weaknesses, ES with LO and Hustle makes it a great KO move. Id try that.

 

[Wind2008]

Bumpidy bump.

EastBay,I tried your Togekiss and didn't like it much,found it wasn't too incredible against Rotom,and was fairly weak compared to Jolteon in the way of late-game sweeping,I may try it again later..but for now losing the easy swampert/rotom KO's isn't worth it.


EDIT:@ Eastbay's second post under me.

I've considered/tested Latias,I dunno..I kind of like having an electric immunity for covering Suicune,I'll consider re-testing Latias though.

 

[EastBayTrainer]

well so swamperts and rotoms are your main problem then? hmm...
I recomend Latias and Zapdos or one of the two. Its really your prefrence for the build, I would go with either actually because both help the team out in a way.

S I tested out latias more and It works great,

Timid, 6 hp, 252 sp atk 22 spe life orb
draco meteor, surf, T bolt and recover

WORKS GREAT, should be able to easily KO most of your threats you listed and walls out swamperts Stabs with levitate and res to surf. Draco meteor should take out almost anything and Recover is for predicted switches to recover from life orb and keep going.

 

[Wind2008]

I've been playing with Latias,I'm still undecided..Draco Meteor seems to fail me more often then not,plus all the TTars around make it pretty hard to switch her in and out.

I'll continue testing before I decide.

This will most likely be my last update untill Sunday night as I will have limited access to the internet after work today due to a trip,any ratings while I'm gone will be appreciated,and I will get back on to look this over ASAP. :)

 

[Setsuna]

Ugh, a lot of rates here that seem to be suggesting things because yes, with nothing to back up their position in the team...

Wind2008, the current line up of the team looks solid, but almost like always there is something to amend/recommend to generally improve it. To start off, your Scizor needs a change of spread, to make it able to take Dragon-type hits and hence check Latias better. Try the following out: 168 HP / 176 Atk / 160 SpD / 4 Spe. The spread allows you to survive two consecutive Draco Meteors from SpecsLatias, which is a testament of its fortitude. Don't worry about loosing some power since it's only around 10% compared to the full offensive set, though in exchange for that, you're adding a greatly important bulky characteristic that will just raise the set, and even the team, by a couple of stages.

Jolteon is definitely not working properly here, but if you take a look at the threat list, you'll see you're missing something; Suicune does not counter Infernape. A physical variant of Ape can hit pretty hard this Suicune you're using, while a special one deals a considerable amount of damage with Grass Knot, not to mention the Nasty Plot set, which OHKOs Suicune after a boost. That said, let's formulate a question: what does Jolteon do for the team? Basically and most importantly, it deals with Electric-type moves, handles bulky Water-type Pokémon such as Suicune and Vaporeon, revenge kills, and also attempts to sweep whenever he finds the opportunity. But none of this ensures that Infernape will be taken care of properly. Therefore, I'm going to suggest a Pokémon to take Jolteon's place:

Timid nature.
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Draco Meteor | Thunderbolt | Surf | Recover

Life Orb as for the item. Latias is one of the best counters of Infernape out there, and as for this team, she adds a great immunity to entry hazards too. Additionally, this set offers a lot of offensive power, that along with Salamence, can cause several damage to most teams, if played correctly. Tyranitar is the most worrying Pokémon Latias could face, and ScarfTar is the most used Pokémon nowadays, so you need to avoid staying in when you can double switch or find out if the opponent has a Tyranitar or not. In fact, having so many moves that hit Tyranitar effectively, it shouldn't be a problem to eliminate it.
Latias is overall a good addition, and this is probably the best of her you could use on your team ;)

On Suicune, take 8 EVs from HP and move them to Speed, so that you'll outspeed Jolly Gyarados.

Offtopic, expand in your descriptions, not only say why you chose each Pokémon and if they are a great sweeper or not. Mention other possibilities too, how you play against "X", what do you usually do against some type of teams, etcétera.

Good team overall, thought I would have liked to see the original form of the team and rate from that point. Good luck.

 

[Wind2008]

I've been testing Latias vs Jolteon,it's really hard to decide..I find that switching to Latias makes my team a bit weaker to bulkier Rotoms(Draco Meteor isn't ohko on some of the more bulky sets.)

Also Bulky Zapdos really destroys my team since the change,it can easily stall Machamp with Roost,and Suicune gets beaten,Latias has issues beating it since it's a 3hko with Tbolt,and Latias can beat it but it's really risky and I don't feel as safe against Zapdos as I did with Jolteon.

For now I'm still testing,I will leave Jolteon on the OP for now though I'm still deciding.

I'm doing better then ever though,winning about 4/5 matches-really happy with the team but I'd really appreciate any more input,gotta be some way it can get better. :)


Thank you for the tips on Suicune and Scizor,Setsuna.

Really appreciate it.

Also,I'm not really sure what to do to make the descriptions better,I tried to change them to more emphasize their purpose on the team,though I'm still not happy with it.

@EastBay,the issue is that Zapdos walls most of my team and wears me down,Jolteon checks it well but Latias isn't such a solid counter.

@Setsuna,I realize Latias has much more usefulness in my team,it's just that Zapdos runs my team over without Jolteon/Latias,and with DM's accuracy it's really scary bringing Latias in on a Zapdos.

EDIT:After playing a while today,I've realized this team is very weak to Electric types,I really need this to change..I don't want to drop Latias since I've really grown to like it over the past few days,but I just can't go on having no counter to any Pokemon that has a STAB Electric move.

I may just be too cautious but I dislike having a risky counter be the only one to a Pokemon as dangerous to my team as Zapdos.

Will most likely make some major edits to the OP over the next couple days including:

A better threat list,the one I copied from the how to make a RMT thing isn't full and looks very old.

Make a list of what I do against common leads,since the start is important and it will hopefully give people an idea of how I use the team.

 

[EastBayTrainer]

well if zapdos is such a weakness for you. Is it more he walls you and you cant kill it or it sweeps you?

 

[Setsuna]

I don't get how can Zapdos be a problem. The 252 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured versions get OHKOed by Latias's Draco Meteor (from the set I suggested) factoring in Stealth Rock. The minimum damage she scores on it is 75%, so even with SR + Leftovers, Zapdos only has a 7% of resisting the Draco Meteor. Once you face Zapdos and bring in Latias, if it has set a Substitute, then hit him with Surf or Thunderbolt, once you break it, smack him with DM.
Something similar happens to Rotom. There is no standard Rotom that can score an OHKO to Latias with Shadow Ball, and the ones that run Thunderwave are uncommon. So Rotom doesn't pose a problem to this Latias that OHKOes most of them.

I'm confident of Latias' utility for this team. In my opinion, unless you play wrong, it should always serve her purpose.

 

[Wind2008]

Bumpin' it up.

Electric,oh electric..I need help.

My team is great 'n all,really liking it-but something has got to change.

All of my pokemon are fairly weak to Electric types,it's very frustrating.

Not sure what to do,but I think one of my Pokemon may have to be changed..I can't go on being this weak to such a common type,suggestions please?:)

Otherwise my team is very solid defensively for such an offensively geared team,having no repeated weaknesses other then ice/dragon right now and tons of resists.

 

[EastBayTrainer]

Throw In an Electivire then, Gonna be tricky though because youll have to predict an electric attack. I mean It walls most electrics Can KO them if you have the right set only weakness is EVERY pokemon has EQ it seems like and he gets walled by Swampert and stuff. I suggest the Mixed set for a good coverage. BUT... Its only if you want another attacker I mean Id go with latias and Try and and give it like soemthing besides Surf if it really means youll take out electric.

 

[Wind2008]

Bump.

Been testing with switching Machamp out for other Pokemon that better deal with Electric types,I'm really not seeing much success.

However,I'm really not having as much trouble as I was a couple days ago electric-wise,Jolteon and Zapdos really suck to be against though..and Magnezone is even more dangerous.

If anyone has suggestions I'd love to see them,I tried Ttar because he's able to beat the majority of electric types,but his Sand Stream hurt Latias and Suicune too much late game.

Evire was too conditional for me,really didn't care for him-may try again since I only played about 6 matches with him before missing Machamp and changing back.

Any other suggestions?

 

[EastBayTrainer]

Yeah I see what you mean Cause Champ Compliments your team very well, But it does Shut down Jolteon and Zapdos and Is a good switch forcer and You know they wont throw an Electric attack and use that as a good switch in. ELectivire Works well with Latias Because Latias covers all of Electivires weaknesses, Levitate and of they throw anything at you then Most liley Latias can take it ( hopefully ). Except ice moves but most likely against Evire they wont throw Ice. In that Case you have... Scizor, Evire Can switch out Nicely to most of your team except Suicune or Salamnce. But SUicune is saved by Evire.

EDIT, Im glad you went with Latias also, Just GL getting one thats that good on DS lol

 

[Aircraft Cemetery]

Hello,

I got your PM and will do my best to help you improve your team.
First of all, the team is quite solid and is well structured. But it can get into trouble against dedicated stall- and hyper offensive teams. Stall teams will be able to set up multiple layers of entry hazards and will probably not have any problems stopping your sweepers. Hyper offensive teams can be a problem if they run Dragon Dance users such as Salamence, Dragonite or Kingdra. Your only check for Mence and Dnite is Scizor's Bullet Punch, which is not absolutely reliable. Kingdra can't be stopped by your team especially with Lum Berry and Screen Support.
Now to my suggestions:

Metagross: Solid choice for a lead. But you should definitely use Meteor Mash over Earthquake. Earthquake will only hit Metagross, Heatran and Infernape, while you will lose against the latter two anyway. Other Metagross won't be 2hkoed, so it's not worth using. MM is crucial as it will ensure you beat Azelf leads all the time. The attack boost is always welcome. I would also change some of its EVs. Speed EVs are not really needed on this set as you won't beat other Metagross anyway so you don't have to outspeed. So you can max out HP, use 12 Def and the rest into attack. If you really want to run some speed, like 8 or 12, you can take those from attack.

Machamp: You should use either the Sub set or the RestTalk set. The Sub set is the superior choice if you think you don't need a status absorber. You should definitely move 4 or 8 HP EVs to Speed to outrun other Machamp. Then you replace Rest with Substitute. If you fear status, use the resttalk set. The same EV spread is required, you will just have to drop Stone Edge for Sleep Talk instead.

Suicune: Offense Cune is a beast! You should however use at least 224 speed EVs with a Timid nature in order to outrun Jolly Gyarados. 232 if you want to outrun neutral natured base 95s and max speed if you want to at least tie with other positive natured base 85 like opposing Suicune or Heracross. I would also max out SpAttack in order to for example always 2hko Swampert after 1 CM, but thats matter of preference if you want bulk or power. The Rest can go into HP of course.

Latias: The 3 attack set is a good choice. But if you feel Dragon Dance users become a problem, you could also give Latias a Scarf in order to revenge kill them reliably. Also Trick can help vs Stall teams.
However then Latias can easily be pursuited. Another option is Bait Latias. I noticed your team has a slight Scizor Weakness, so Bait Latias is a good choice for luring and killing it. Expert Belt over Life Orb and Grass Knot and HP Fire over Surf and Thunderbolt will be required. Dragon Pulse over Recover is also appreciated because after a spatk drop from DM you won't score kills on Tyranitar and Scizor.
These are 3 options now. I guess you will have to test out which works best. I'd prefer Bait Latias because your team is too weak against Scizor. Only Suicune and your own Scizor can at least withstand to an extent. Also, nothing in your team likes to switch into repeated CB U-Turns.

Scizor: The CB set is okay. The choice betwenn the usual and the more defensive set depends on your choice for Latias. If you use non-choice Scarf Latias I would definitely use the max Attack version on Scizor because you will then need as much power as possible to deal with DD Mence or DD Nite. 248 HP EVs, 8 Spe EVs and 252Atk will be needed. If you use CScarf Latias you already have a good check for DD users, so you won't absolutely need a full powered Bullet Punch and can keep your set.

Salamence: I prefer Lum Berry over Life Orb as it still has insane power but will be able to continue its sweep after using Outrage once. It will also provide you with a good switch in for Breloom. But that's just matter of preference again. One thing you should consider is MixMence over DD Mence. As I already said well built stall teams can give your team trouble. MixMence is (one of) the best Stall Breakers in the whole game, so it could work for you.
Salamemce@Life Orb
Naive-252Spe, 240SpAtk, 16Atk
-Draco Meteor
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fireblast
Here I chose New MixMence over Classic because your team doesn't have a ground move yet (if you drop it on Metagross) and because Roost won't be used much in such an offensive team like yours.
If stall teams are not a big problem for you and/or if you feel 3 specially based attackers are too much, you should keep DD Mence.

I hope I could help. Good Luck !

 

[Wind2008]

Hello,

I got your PM and will do my best to help you improve your team.
First of all, the team is quite solid and is well structured. But it can get into trouble against dedicated stall- and hyper offensive teams. Stall teams will be able to set up multiple layers of entry hazards and will probably not have any problems stopping your sweepers. Hyper offensive teams can be a problem if they run Dragon Dance users such as Salamence, Dragonite or Kingdra. Your only check for Mence and Dnite is Scizor's Bullet Punch, which is not absolutely reliable. Kingdra can't be stopped by your team especially with Lum Berry and Screen Support.
Now to my suggestions:

Metagross: Solid choice for a lead. But you should definitely use Meteor Mash over Earthquake. Earthquake will only hit Metagross, Heatran and Infernape, while you will lose against the latter two anyway. Other Metagross won't be 2hkoed, so it's not worth using. MM is crucial as it will ensure you beat Azelf leads all the time. The attack boost is always welcome. I would also change some of its EVs. Speed EVs are not really needed on this set as you won't beat other Metagross anyway so you don't have to outspeed. So you can max out HP, use 12 Def and the rest into attack. If you really want to run some speed, like 8 or 12, you can take those from attack.
I've had MMash for a while now,don't know how I screwed up editing it.

As for the EV's,I'll look into it.

Machamp: You should use either the Sub set or the RestTalk set. The Sub set is the superior choice if you think you don't need a status absorber. You should definitely move 4 or 8 HP EVs to Speed to outrun other Machamp. Then you replace Rest with Substitute. If you fear status, use the resttalk set. The same EV spread is required, you will just have to drop Stone Edge for Sleep Talk instead.

Reason behind me using the 3 attack set I have is for Gyarados and Mence.

I find they often switch in to my Machamp,I would have a major gap in my team if I didn't have Stone Edge's coverage on Machamp,will change the speed though.

Suicune: Offense Cune is a beast! You should however use at least 224 speed EVs with a Timid nature in order to outrun Jolly Gyarados. 232 if you want to outrun neutral natured base 95s and max speed if you want to at least tie with other positive natured base 85 like opposing Suicune or Heracross. I would also max out SpAttack in order to for example always 2hko Swampert after 1 CM, but thats matter of preference if you want bulk or power. The Rest can go into HP of course.

I use my Suicune as a bit of a wall,since my team lacks any real damage absorber-I prefer the bulky set I have.

I will do some speed calcs and decide what speed fits me best,though-thanks.

Latias: The 3 attack set is a good choice. But if you feel Dragon Dance users become a problem, you could also give Latias a Scarf in order to revenge kill them reliably. Also Trick can help vs Stall teams.
However then Latias can easily be pursuited. Another option is Bait Latias. I noticed your team has a slight Scizor Weakness, so Bait Latias is a good choice for luring and killing it. Expert Belt over Life Orb and Grass Knot and HP Fire over Surf and Thunderbolt will be required. Dragon Pulse over Recover is also appreciated because after a spatk drop from DM you won't score kills on Tyranitar and Scizor.
These are 3 options now. I guess you will have to test out which works best. I'd prefer Bait Latias because your team is too weak against Scizor. Only Suicune and your own Scizor can at least withstand to an extent. Also, nothing in your team likes to switch into repeated CB U-Turns.

DD users aren't an issue,Suicune can beat both Gyarados and Mence after a +1,same can be said for Machamp if he survives long enough to see it.

With that said,Scarf Latias doesn't seem to fit my team,I really dislike choice items and don't think it would be too helpful to my team in the long run.

Scizor: The CB set is okay. The choice betwenn the usual and the more defensive set depends on your choice for Latias. If you use non-choice Scarf Latias I would definitely use the max Attack version on Scizor because you will then need as much power as possible to deal with DD Mence or DD Nite. 248 HP EVs, 8 Spe EVs and 252Atk will be needed. If you use CScarf Latias you already have a good check for DD users, so you won't absolutely need a full powered Bullet Punch and can keep your set.

As said above,Cune can take most DDers(bulky Dos is risky),I'm really enjoying the current EV spread-my team needs a second defensive Pokemon,otherwise it's just too fragile.

Salamence: I prefer Lum Berry over Life Orb as it still has insane power but will be able to continue its sweep after using Outrage once. It will also provide you with a good switch in for Breloom. But that's just matter of preference again. One thing you should consider is MixMence over DD Mence. As I already said well built stall teams can give your team trouble. MixMence is (one of) the best Stall Breakers in the whole game, so it could work for you.
Salamemce@Life Orb
Naive-252Spe, 240SpAtk, 16Atk
-Draco Meteor
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fireblast
Here I chose New MixMence over Classic because your team doesn't have a ground move yet (if you drop it on Metagross) and because Roost won't be used much in such an offensive team like yours.
If stall teams are not a big problem for you and/or if you feel 3 specially based attackers are too much, you should keep DD Mence.

I rarely blindly use Mence,it's usually a late game sweep after I know exactly what the enemy is using.

With that said,I think the DD set is a superior late-game sweeper,and I can't justify going to MixMence,it just doesn't work as well with Mence's role in my team.




I hope I could help. Good Luck !

Thank you very much,I will be looking at your suggestions and hopefully I can make some changes for the better. :)

As of right now,this team is having a lot of problem with stall,I'm not sure what to do with it,if I change Mence to a MixMence to break stall I'm going to have to fit another fast sweeper in.

Will be testing over the next few days and I'd really like some input on my problems if anyone has ideas.

Jirachi is also an issue,though it isn't a huge one.

Magnezone issue still remains,also.

 

[Wind2008]

I've been testing with Jirachi,a ScarfRachi over Machamp covers a lot of my teams weaknesses,and adds a much needed revenge killer.

The loss of Machamp makes my team less stable early on though,Machamp's bulk let me survive a bit and see what the enemy had-now only Scizor is able to scout properly,which causes some problems.

It also gives me a reliable way to KO +1 mences,which before required me losing/cripling one of my Pokemon.

Magnezone is still sort of an issue,but Jirachi fares better against him then Machamp did.

While neither Jirachi or Machamp can do much about it,Rain Dance teams really hurt me..Ludicolo in the rain can stomp my whole team after 1 SD,not common but worth a mention-Kingdra wrecks my team also.

Change isn't an official one yet,but it seems to work pretty well.

I also have a bit of a fire weakness now,it hits all of my Pokemon pretty hard with the exception of Suicune.

A strong fighting move is missed,but I think it's worth it..honestly a strong fighting move isn't that important at this point,Scizor's Super Power is efficient enough for when I just have to have a fighting attack.

Jirachi also gives me a better way to deal with stall through Trick,I feel it's a good change but I would like some input.

Set(Template stolen from Setsuna,I like it) I'm using right now is:

Adamant nature.
Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP /252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Iron Head | Fire Punch | Ice Punch | Trick



Is there any reason to be using Jolly? it seems like a waste,and even at max attack+Adamant Jirachi's attacking power isn't exactly impressive,I can't justify losing even more by going Jolly.

Any input on the possible change would be appreciated.

Picture is from Delano-Laramie on DeviantART,I thought it was awesome and had to use it. :)

 

[pkmntrainerblue]

Hey I got your PM and your right this is a tough rate,
So just things on your new Jirachi over Machamp choice. If you want to stay with your Jirachi then keep that set it seems like an effective set. I would maybe change Trick for U-Turn because I can not see using Jirachi with this set after you lose your scarf. Also what Pokemon would you trick that you could not beat already. U-Turn adds that scouting you where looking for. The other moves should stay though.

But if you have been thinking about changing it you could use a Flygon over it. It's weaknesses are about the same as Latias and Salamence but that is covered by Scizor, Metagross, and Suicune. So here is the set I would recommend:

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Nature Naughty
Evs 4 HP 252 Atk 252 Spe
Moves
- U-Turn
- Dragon Claw/Outrage
- Earthquake
- Heat wave/Fire Blast/Flamethrower

Well this one I think could work and is worth the testing. I say this because he can Revenge Magnezone with it's choice of special fire moves or Earthquake. U-turn is obviously for scouting. Dragon Claw is a basic STAB move -OR- Outrage which has more power but can get you revenge killed your self easily I would say dragon claw. Earthquake is for STAB and some steels. Either one of the special fire moves also get steels that are immune to Earthquake (magnet rise Magnezone, Skarmory, Levitate Bronzong.) This set is an effective revenge killer and scouter. He may get rid of steels such as Magnezone more reliably because of his more options and the ability to switch out. Even though this puts 3 Dragons on your team Jirachi would put 3 steels on you team maybe even making you worse to Magnezone.

Well I hope you get to test this and good luck, Hope I helped some.

 

[Red~Rum]

The team looks pretty solid, however I have a few suggestions.

Scizor by far needs to be changed, to a Life Orb set.

I prefer this guy as he can be used and mostly anytime of the game. If you find a spot where he can get 2 Swords Dances in you will most likely win the battle.

Scizor@Life Orb
Adamant Nature
Technician
HP 4/Attack 252/Speed 252
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Brick Break
Bug Bite

Bullet Punch and Swords Dance with Scizor's typing and ability is deadly. Brick Break is for anything resisting bug or steel moves. Bug Bite is for grass and psychics.

Metagross I would take out of the lead spot and possibly shove him into the midst of your team.

Metagross@Life Orb or Leftovers(your choice)
Adamant Nature
HP 112/Attack 252/Defense 12/Speed 132
Agility
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Thunder Punch

Ok, I saw earlier mentioning of Dragonite. I say bring him in as your anti-lead. He is good in the beginning and end of the match. His ability makes him an amazing lead since he can't flinch. He has great stats in both Special Attack and Attack. He also has access to Extreme Speed. He's the same typing as Salamence so he won't hurt your synergy.

Dragonite@Life Orb
Quiet Nature
Attack 252/Special Attack 252/HP 4
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Extreme Speed
Earthquake


However if you like how Metagross lead is doing I would change that Meteor Mash to Earthquake so then it allows you to hit more types for super effective.

Now for Salamence he needs some EV's changing.

Why put so much into Attack, when his Special Attack is needing it more, plus you have an Attack raising move.

Here's my suggestion.

Salamence@Life Orb
Naive Nature
Attack 80/Special Attack 252/Speed 176
Dragon Dance
Draco Meteor
Outrage
Earthquake/Fire Blast

Last move is your choice. Salamence has that ridiculous base Attack so adding EV's to it isn't as necessary as to Special Attack. This will be a lot better for a Mixmence.



I hope you like some of the ideas, the changing the lead to Dragonite isn't absolutely necessary and it also takes away your Stealth Rocks. But the EV's on Salamence are a must change. Scizor being changed to that set would help you a lot as well.


Good luck!