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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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you said offensive teams wouldn't use registeel. now you're saying that because my offensive team DOES use registeel it's no longer an offensive team?............??????........??????.............?????????????
well see that's the difference between us. im just here to say you're wrong and im better than you. i'm not here for an argument, a debate. i mean what kind of jackass sits there, loses their battle against someone, and then has the audacity to define terms of a team. okay thanks can you tell me what a baton pass team is next?
Shrang, I've always maintained that Rain is more akin to Balance than HO, and I play it as such. You've seen a lot of people post about how relaxed I play with rain; that's why.
And thanks for making your intentions clear, Aero, it saves me the time of giving your posts any sort of respect.
And thanks for making your intentions clear, Aero, it saves me the time of giving your posts any sort of respect.
cool you just posted what everyone else thought about your posts??????????
Been way too occupied as of late to battle or follow this forum, with a combination of an explosion in work-related issues and HG/SS taking up my time. I have noticed that there has been plenty of talk about Raikou recently, which I would have loved to get involved in but can't right now. There is one semi-related point I would like to raise though:
Really? That's unforgivable, no seriously. Moltres has no place on heavy offense, only on balance / semi-offense and the occasional stall team with a more defensive set. Heavy offense should be following a rough template of Spiker / Dual Sceener + 3 /4 Poke offensive core (primarily physical, most with Swords Dance / Dragon Dance etc and plenty of strong priority) + occasional defensive pivot such as Registeel, though this role can sometimes overlap with DSer depending on team. No special sweeper that can't at least readily plough through Chansey should even be considered. Is this a case of people getting carried away with Moltres amid all the hype without considering the obvious consequences?
Really? That's unforgivable, no seriously. Moltres has no place on heavy offense, only on balance / semi-offense and the occasional stall team with a more defensive set. Heavy offense should be following a rough template of Spiker / Dual Sceener + 3 /4 Poke offensive core (primarily physical, most with Swords Dance / Dragon Dance etc and plenty of strong priority) + occasional defensive pivot such as Registeel, though this role can sometimes overlap with DSer depending on team. No special sweeper that can't at least readily plough through Chansey should even be considered. Is this a case of people getting carried away with Moltres amid all the hype without considering the obvious consequences?
@ Bluewind: Well that was kinda my point. Bulky and semi-offense can afford to run certain tanks, dedicated walls and spinners, and can therefore afford to lose some momentum to certain Pokemon. Heavy offense does not have this luxury, making Moltres a poor choice.
It is common sense that if using Moltres you should run a Raikou check / counter or two. The only teams that struggle to do that are the kind of teams that Moltres has no place in to begin with.
It is common sense that if using Moltres you should run a Raikou check / counter or two. The only teams that struggle to do that are the kind of teams that Moltres has no place in to begin with.
@YaM: Milotic, Rotom, choiced eletric attacks (it has 100 base SpDef guys, and all of us know what Gallade could do with his base 105), Blastoise etc. It's not meant to switch into other attacks, but to come on a predicted switch to a bulky water or to Moltres and get a CM as they switch out; but it can still come in.
@Lemmiwinks: I still can't see your point. What I'm saying here is: Raikou does find space against offense to setup.
@Lemmiwinks: I still can't see your point. What I'm saying here is: Raikou does find space against offense to setup.
All Raikou has to do is come in on a revenge kill.
I love Taunt/Nasty Plot Mismagius. It's even more effective than the Sub version at beating Chansey, and it can beat Clefable, who is otherwise a major pain for Mismagius. It's also useful to stop Hitmontop from using Foresight, amongst other things.
I love Taunt/Nasty Plot Mismagius. It's even more effective than the Sub version at beating Chansey, and it can beat Clefable, who is otherwise a major pain for Mismagius. It's also useful to stop Hitmontop from using Foresight, amongst other things.
Maybe we should start by clarifying exactly which kind of playstyle (I assume some variations of offense) you believe Raikou completely dominates, and is therefore broken.
I'm canadian. And you clearly misread my post (I was suggesting it was a mistake).
As much as I enjoy arguing / whatever with FlareBlitz, I don't think it makes sense for you to come in here and troll him for essentially no reason. How could this way of posting possibly be productive?
Everyone has repeated the fact that "I beat you so I'm right" is a completely invalid argument because one person does not matter.
I don't care if you use Registeel to beat Raikou. Should everyone be forced to use Registeel? No. Forcing any Pokemon is unrealistic, especially one such as Registeel who more offensively inept then an old woman in a wheelchair. Registeel is not even a reliable counter anyway, it's a check. Lack of recovery makes it quite passable by using Spikes, Dugtrio, or basically any other Pokemon.
Let's drop Kyogre down to UU because we can use Ludicolo / Toxicroak to beat it. I run Toxicroak so therefore I can beat Kyogre and therefore it is clearly UU. That's essentially what you're saying.
Discussing team templates has always seemed silly to me. There is no rule that makes you follow a template, except maybe something like stall who cannot function without certain Pokemon (part of the reason I run offense).
Heavy Offense =/= DS Offense. Heavy offense means you're hitting as hard as possible as quick as possible. DS Heavy Offense is effective, but stating that Pokemon such as Swellow and Moltres cannot be used on a heavy offense team makes little-to-no sense.
Are you saying my team isn't Offense? It clearly isn't semi-offense or balance. (I'm referring to my Venusaur / Froslass / Donphan / Moltres / Absol / Swellow team).
And it is because of the fact that Moltres is so common that Raikou easily has a chance to set up.
I think the general idea behind what mop is presumably trying to argue is right in that I really don't understand this mindset is so prevalent this gen where we're trying to subdivide offensively inclined teams into about five different genres, and that for some reason we're trying to hit each of these weird, arbitrary archetypes instead of just trying to win.
I'm really not sure where terms like hyper offense came from (they definitely didn't exist in the first three gens), but really, I'm not sure why people expect to be able to play without any defensive pivots at all and win reliably anyway. It's just asking to get crushed by something with a speed boost or something that, as in this case, is just faster to begin with. It isn't a good strategy when you're trying to win consistently to rely exclusively on momentum and not have any sort of real ability to absorb hits when needed - especially when half the pokemon you're using can't even survive resisted hits.
There's a reason that it doesn't work to do this as far as getting consistent wins on the even the ladder (how many of the top 50 aren't using at least a few fairly bulky pokemon?) or especially in tournaments and tours. And I don't know why it's for some reason an acceptable thesis that Raikou must be broken because this flawed strategy isn't working.
I'm really not sure where terms like hyper offense came from (they definitely didn't exist in the first three gens), but really, I'm not sure why people expect to be able to play without any defensive pivots at all and win reliably anyway. It's just asking to get crushed by something with a speed boost or something that, as in this case, is just faster to begin with. It isn't a good strategy when you're trying to win consistently to rely exclusively on momentum and not have any sort of real ability to absorb hits when needed - especially when half the pokemon you're using can't even survive resisted hits.
There's a reason that it doesn't work to do this as far as getting consistent wins on the even the ladder (how many of the top 50 aren't using at least a few fairly bulky pokemon?) or especially in tournaments and tours. And I don't know why it's for some reason an acceptable thesis that Raikou must be broken because this flawed strategy isn't working.
Actually, the way in which the battles were conducted shows how intelligent he really was. For example, I've never actually used Registeel as a "check to Raikou" in any of my battles. I made the point that he was wrong, an offensive team is not held down by holding a Registeel. I'd much rather use my Raikou or Hitmontop or Alakazam to beat Raikou instead. It is within how you use your Pokemon.
I have 5 random sweepers and one Registeel on my team. Isn't this frowned upon? "You can't just slap X sweepers and Y set defensive Pokes." I'm sure everyone has heard that time after time. Now everyone go back and read the past 10 pages of this thread. Each and every single one of you have made some of the most rain man but bullfeces posts I've ever seen that shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
Example: "Omg Leafeon just gets fracking Roared out by Steelix whaa whaa whaa"
Hello geniuses, Leafeon gets Roar.
Example 2: "Lanturn can stop Raikou whaa whaa whaa"
No, it doesn't. Ever seen a Rotom try to stop a Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt SubCM Jirachi in OU? It clearly doesn't work.
Example 3: The earlier suggestion that Registeel cannot be on an offensive team and THEN saying that it's no longer an offensive team because Registeel is on it.
Example 4: Heysup is so mentally challenged to compare not having Raikou BL to George Bush being elected. We realized Bush SHOULDNT have been voted AFTER what he did. How the fudge does that relate to Raikou haven't been voted YET?
Example 5: That one moron who keeps asking the Raikou question that led to Heysup's stupidity. Raikou WAS in BL already but was brought down for further testing and was overshadowed by other things.
I don't have to troll to just troll, it's a subliminal message of mine to prove that you are all overdramatic queens that really knows that jack stuff about UU. Do we really want to have that UU suspect voter check? Cause it seems any bam margera who wastes enough time on the ladder all of a sudden thinks he's friking Encyclopedia Brown.
Also stop fudging classifying poop to the 10th degree. I think you're all dumbfaces, not extreme dumbface, sort-of-dumbface or permanent dumbface. There's such a fudging STALL team, OFFENSIVE team, and a BALANCED team. This just shows you sillynannies are willing to argue about the most pointless shenanigans to have an attempt of sounding any important anywhere even though your opinion means jack butt.
P.S. FlareBlitz is the exact #1 problem of this thread so it was funny to pick on him. The winning against him is just an easy backer. Because everyone knows for sure that silly willy stupidface would be talking a lot more bullpoppy if he wasn't beat down and complained to his friends like MS that he was having troubles against me.
JabbaEdit: While I don't condone the name calling in this post he has some very good points! Therefore I have edited this post for a pg level audience.
I have 5 random sweepers and one Registeel on my team. Isn't this frowned upon? "You can't just slap X sweepers and Y set defensive Pokes." I'm sure everyone has heard that time after time. Now everyone go back and read the past 10 pages of this thread. Each and every single one of you have made some of the most rain man but bullfeces posts I've ever seen that shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
Example: "Omg Leafeon just gets fracking Roared out by Steelix whaa whaa whaa"
Hello geniuses, Leafeon gets Roar.
Example 2: "Lanturn can stop Raikou whaa whaa whaa"
No, it doesn't. Ever seen a Rotom try to stop a Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt SubCM Jirachi in OU? It clearly doesn't work.
Example 3: The earlier suggestion that Registeel cannot be on an offensive team and THEN saying that it's no longer an offensive team because Registeel is on it.
Example 4: Heysup is so mentally challenged to compare not having Raikou BL to George Bush being elected. We realized Bush SHOULDNT have been voted AFTER what he did. How the fudge does that relate to Raikou haven't been voted YET?
Example 5: That one moron who keeps asking the Raikou question that led to Heysup's stupidity. Raikou WAS in BL already but was brought down for further testing and was overshadowed by other things.
I don't have to troll to just troll, it's a subliminal message of mine to prove that you are all overdramatic queens that really knows that jack stuff about UU. Do we really want to have that UU suspect voter check? Cause it seems any bam margera who wastes enough time on the ladder all of a sudden thinks he's friking Encyclopedia Brown.
Also stop fudging classifying poop to the 10th degree. I think you're all dumbfaces, not extreme dumbface, sort-of-dumbface or permanent dumbface. There's such a fudging STALL team, OFFENSIVE team, and a BALANCED team. This just shows you sillynannies are willing to argue about the most pointless shenanigans to have an attempt of sounding any important anywhere even though your opinion means jack butt.
P.S. FlareBlitz is the exact #1 problem of this thread so it was funny to pick on him. The winning against him is just an easy backer. Because everyone knows for sure that silly willy stupidface would be talking a lot more bullpoppy if he wasn't beat down and complained to his friends like MS that he was having troubles against me.
JabbaEdit: While I don't condone the name calling in this post he has some very good points! Therefore I have edited this post for a pg level audience.
Well this thread has become a huge shithole, though I greatly enjoyed reading Jabba's editing of Mop's post. I'll try to get this topic back on track by saying that I have been using a trap team to pretty decent success. Magneton and Dugtrio trap steels and others to allow CB Kangaskhan and lo Raikou to sweep teams easier. Magneton has actually been really useful thanks to Registeel being on nearly every team and is far from dead weight on a team without Registeel thanks to its great special attack, typing, and decent defense.
I remember zerowing mentioning he was having some pretty great success with a Magneton/Dugtrio team supporting Cresselia last period, I hadn't thought to try it this round, but I should really give it a go beating up Registeel, plenty of Pokemon who love that.
Magneton in particular is a lot better than people give it credit for, I think. It was OU in Advance after all, and while it was only used there for the same reason it should be here (Magnet Pull), it did have assets that kept it there and prevented it from having real competition from stupid shit like Nosepass who also have the ability. The most obvious is the ridiculous base 120 special attack - the only two higher in UU are Alakazam (135) and Moltres (125). It's even higher than the frequent tear inducing Raikou!
It's HP really, really, really blows (gotta love a Pokemon who is almost always 3HKOd by Seismic Toss), but it's an extremely interesting Pokemon. It's kinda interesting the analysis suggest HP Fire though, gotta imagine Water serves you a little better since it also gets Steelix but also lets you do decent damage to ground types and 4x Rhyperior. Not like HP Fire is doing shit to Quagsire/etc. anyway, though I guess losing the ability to SE Torterra is a bummer.
Magneton in particular is a lot better than people give it credit for, I think. It was OU in Advance after all, and while it was only used there for the same reason it should be here (Magnet Pull), it did have assets that kept it there and prevented it from having real competition from stupid shit like Nosepass who also have the ability. The most obvious is the ridiculous base 120 special attack - the only two higher in UU are Alakazam (135) and Moltres (125). It's even higher than the frequent tear inducing Raikou!
It's HP really, really, really blows (gotta love a Pokemon who is almost always 3HKOd by Seismic Toss), but it's an extremely interesting Pokemon. It's kinda interesting the analysis suggest HP Fire though, gotta imagine Water serves you a little better since it also gets Steelix but also lets you do decent damage to ground types and 4x Rhyperior. Not like HP Fire is doing shit to Quagsire/etc. anyway, though I guess losing the ability to SE Torterra is a bummer.
MoP said:
Every one of us? D:
I'd rather not comment on most of MoP's post (though I will say that Example 4 seems a little nitpicky haha), but I have to agree on the whole team classification thing. I don't get why we should care that a subclass or sub-method of an offensive (or whatever) team is dominated by a Pokémon. Latias completely bones "Special Hyper Offense", but that hasn't been anybody's reason for considering her Uber. In contrast, Gallade dominates stall in general, and so he does get banned. In fact, Little Cup doesn't even seem to care that stall is nonexistent. Is it really that wrong for an offensive team to have a defensive pivot, even one as defensive as Registeel?
Also, I love how this thread has now had both people behaving like Firebot and people typing like Firebot, but not at the same time.
Yeah, I gave up on that a while ago.
Jabba, you are my new favorite person.
I agree, lets drop the Raikou thing. There are a few posts I want to respond to before stopping though.
Uh, you can use Latias or Palkia to counter Kyogre in Ubers.
That is bullshit and you know it. My argument clearly was not flawed because my essay was accepted. Maybe the reason I thought different than everyone else was because I have a different opinion than everyone else.
Okay, now I'll drop it. I realize I'm outnumbered and so I'll stop trying. I still think Raikou is UU, I'm just done debating it.
On Magneton: I don't think it matters that HP Water doesn't hit Torterra, if HP Fire doesn't OHKO (I'm not doing calcs) Magneton is dead. I'd rather not take the chance so I'll just switch out. I guess I could let it get a Rock Polish up, but as long as it can't OHKO and I can, it shouldn't matter too much.
EDIT: I just remembered that Magneton has Magnet Rise and outspeeds Torterra before the Rock Polish, so I guess I wouldn't switch out. Still, I think you'll KO it with HP Water before it KO's you with Wood Hammer, not to mention Torterra will be taking Life Orb recoil and Wood Hammer recoil. So I don't think it'll matter too much.
lol. My point was: "shit happens when you leave it up to voters".
Anyway other than this your post was actually very true.
Those are Ubers. You completely and utterly missed that point. *whoosh*
Who else should decide things if not the people themselves? Everyone knows you hate Froslass, but just because you didn't get your way with it being banned doesn't mean the process is messed up.
I do agree though, that post was excellent.
Aeroblactyl despite your renown and skill as a battler, you still have no right in insulting others. I mean Jackass? Mentally Retarded? These aren't words you can loosely throw around.
Edit: Also what the hell? Franky and Flareblitz had this discussion down and then we were bombarded with other posters. To be frank, a metagame without the suspects (Raikou, Froslass and Moltres) would definetely be most preferable.
Edit: Also what the hell? Franky and Flareblitz had this discussion down and then we were bombarded with other posters. To be frank, a metagame without the suspects (Raikou, Froslass and Moltres) would definetely be most preferable.
I can see omastar replacing froslass to a degree and charizard kind of filling in for moltres, but who will take raikou's place? Mismagius?
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