OU Hail Team: My first RMT.

[Pancham]

Well, most of us know that OU isn't so diverse anymore (I don't think it ever was). So, I decided to stray away from "common" or "standard" pokes.

TEAM AT A GLANCE:​

Abomasnow (Snow Warning) @

Calm (+SpD, -Atk) 252HP/4SpA/252SpD
~Leech Seed
~Substitute
~Protect
~Blizzard

This is a hail team, so using Abomasnow is a given. Abomasnow is also graced with a pretty good, sometimes terrible, defensive typing for sponging special attackers in OU, only afraid of Draco Meteor, Fire attacks, Rock attacks, fighting attacks, bug attacks, steel attacks and flying attacks. Some og which aren't very common, like Flying attacks. My Abomasnow pretty much sponges attacks from special attackers, like Starmie, and sets up leech Seed and produces a sub for stalling. Protect helps scout and stall out pokes like CBScizor.

Walrein (Ice Body) @

Bold (+Def, -Atk) 252HP/244Def/12SpD
~Protect
~Substitute
~Roar
~Surf

Walrein is another obvious choice on a hail stall team. Its being able to stall effectively for 32 turns, if not more, is very helpful. Walrein pretty much switches into resisted attacks, a choiced poke stuck on a resisted move helps too, and sets up a Sub while he switches out. Roar is there over a move like Super Fang for phazing.

Froslass (Snow Cloak) @

Timid (+Spe, -Atk) 252HP/228Def/28Spe
~Pain Split
~Substitute
~Toxic
~Blizzard

Froslass is also fairly helpful for stalling, as, her Snow Cloak ability paired with Sub and Pain Split is among the sot annoying combos in the game. Pain SPlit takes HP from the oponent and gives some to her, so that's also helpful, especially against Blissey. Toxic is there for Flyers and levitaters who won't get poisoned from the Toxic Spikes which Tentacruel lays down.

Rotom-f (Levitate) @

Bold (+Def, -Atk) 252HP/168Def/88Spe
~Pain Split
~Will-o-Wisp
~Thunderbolt
~Blizzard

Believe it or not, but people actually keep their Salamences and Dragonites in on this fellow., when this happens, they take a Blizzard to the face. W-o-W helps me with physical attackers that could potentially sweep my team, Machamp namely. Also for status against steel types like Jirachi and Skarmory.

Tentacruel (Liquid Ooze) @

Calm (+SpD, -Atk) 252HP/120Def/136SpD
~Toxic Spikes
~Rapid Spin
~Surf
~Sludge Bomb

Stall-wise, Tentacruel is one of the most important factors of my team. Not only does he remove Toxic Spikes on my field, but he also produces some for my opponent too!! He then spins and rids my field of Spikes or Stealth Rocks that may have found their way onto my side of the field.

Gliscor (Sand Veil) @

Jolly (+Spe, -SpA) 252HP/40Def/216Spe
~Roost
~Taunt
~Stealth Rock
~Earthquake

Gliscor is another main component. He taunts pokes like Skarmory and Blissey and produces some Stealth Rocks of my own. He also counters main threats like Lucario and Tyranitar.

So, this is my team I concocted a while ago. I was thinking of maybe adding a Skarmory, Swampert and Forretress. Skarmory for Froslass, Swampert for Gliscor, and Forretress for Tentacruel. Swampert could help me by having Roar so Walrein can have Super Fang.

Main Threats​

Latias:Latias is by far one of the most important threats. Draco Meteor coming from a Specs or Scarfed variant can demolish any of my pokes switching in to counter her.

Zapdos: With Heatwave and TBolt, not much can counter this feller.

Breloom: None of my pokes likes to be asleep.

Machamp: This is an obvious one, with Lum Berry, not much can counter this one.

 

[Fleursily34]

Froslass ability for evasion in hail
Combined with it's speed for pulling into sub
Draining on the foe every move with toxic and weather damage
Healing at the expense with Pain Split

That's the best idea i've heard in awhile

 

[Pancham]

Froslass ability for evasion in hail
Combined with it's speed for pulling into sub
Draining on the foe every move with toxic and weather damage
Healing at the expense with Pain Split

That's the best idea i've heard in awhile

Thanks :)

 

[teajello]

Switch Gliscor with Abomasnow as your lead. You don't get any benefits from having that frail snowman at the head of your team.

Tentacruel > Forretress

In your case, you can't afford another fire weakness.

In addition, Abomasnow and Tentacruel work well with each other as do Gliscor and Tentacruel. Skarmory doesn't do much for your team. You don't need two ghosts though. You need fire to deal with Scizors because they wreak havoc on your teams.

Scarftran is a good choice over Frosslass or if not you should use Rotom-H over Rotom-F for Overheat and get another check to the dragons i.e. Mamo or Weavile. While Rotom-F does have that surprise factor you mentioned, it's not the best choice.

I usually don't like mono attacking Gliscor especially if the attack is earthquake and especially with popular levitating Azelf leads all around. However, this set is on the strategy dex so I assume there is some merit to it. You should vie for U-Turn or Payback instead of Taunt should you lead it since Gliscor is kind of stuck with middling speed so it can't make use of taunt. The only thing it probably can taunt is Swampert which will Ice Beam for the OHKO anyways. Hippowdon for an occasional Ice Fang. Weavile can also help with your Breloom, Zapdos, Latias and to a much more minor extent Machamp weakness should you decide to band it. Ice Shard hits weakened Latias and Zapdos while Aerial Ace kills off weakened Machamp and Breloom. (For subbing Brelooms however, you will have some trouble without using something as death fodder and for getting rid of the sub.

That's pretty much it, everything looks good. One last note though: Abomasnow can get more HP from Leech Seeding should you vie for 252Def / 252 SpD but it makes it frailer as a special tank so this is ultimately your choice.

EDIT:

Froslass ability for evasion in hail
Combined with it's speed for pulling into sub
Draining on the foe every move with toxic and weather damage
Healing at the expense with Pain Split

That's the best idea i've heard in awhile

It doesn't work. Frosslass is way too frail to pull it off. Snow Cloak's probability is a miss every five turns but you basically only get four subs. Anything can kill it so you will almost never get the free turn for toxic. Sorry. >_< I've used Frosslass before too and alot of it works on paper but not really. Spiking Frosslass lead in UU. in my opinion, might be the only useful set for it.

 

[Fleursily34]

It doesn't work. Frosslass is way too frail to pull it off. Snow Cloak's probability is a miss every five turns but you basically only get four subs. Anything can kill it so you will almost never get the free turn for toxic. Sorry. >_< I've used Frosslass before too and alot of it works on paper but not really. Spiking Frosslass lead in UU. in my opinion, might be the only useful set for it.

There is never only one set a pokemon can pull off effectivly. It's not as frail as you might think with 248 HP EVs, not EVERYTHING can kill it. It can take a resisted hit. It can take a resisted hit and Pain Split. Leftovers heals Froslass aswell. Since there are no spikers on this team, Spikes might be an option over Pain Split of Toxic. But that seems detrimental. Hail teams are never the very 'covered' of stall teams. Setting up all of that residual will take a long time and might be for nothing in the end.

Have you tried that set specifically? It's about not getting hit with it's sub. It' wouldn't matter if Fross had 17 HP. With it's movepool and speed Frosslass can force switches and sub on the switch, then toxic, then sub sub sub. As they recover you can pull into another sub and then hit them with Pain Splitt (if you think it will help) After it gets a sub in, it has Snow Cloak in it's favor. The point of the set is to take advantage of Toxic and I found it very creative.

Make sure your packing a steel killer Lambert!

 

[teajello]

There is never only one set a pokemon can pull off effectivly. It's not as frail as you might think with 248 HP EVs, not EVERYTHING can kill it. It can take a resisted hit. It can take a resisted hit and Pain Split. Leftovers heals Froslass aswell. Since there are no spikers on this team, Spikes might be an option over Pain Split of Toxic. But that seems detrimental. Hail teams are never the very 'covered' of stall teams. Setting up all of that residual will take a long time and might be for nothing in the end.

Have you tried that set specifically? It's about not getting hit with it's sub. It' wouldn't matter if Fross had 17 HP. With it's movepool and speed Frosslass can force switches and sub on the switch, then toxic, then sub sub sub. As they recover you can pull into another sub and then hit them with Pain Splitt (if you think it will help) After it gets a sub in, it has Snow Cloak in it's favor. The point of the set is to take advantage of Toxic and I found it very creative.

Make sure your packing a steel killer Lambert!

There's literally nothing in OU Frosslass can force out even the things it can OHKO it doesn't force out. Salamence and Nite laugh in its face most of the time. For those that don't, it's not unlikely they'll switch in a ever so common Scizor or Scarftran to counter your frail ice ghost. What do you do then? Toxic does nothing. You can't sub up in time against a Scizor. So you switch. Can you give me examples of a few pokes that it would force out? And almost everything OHKO's it. Ice is a very bad type defensively as it resists practically nothing. Bug Poison Fighting Normal Ice. These are the types Frosslass resists or are immune to. Given you can switch into a Machamp on their DPunch but what happens next turn when they Stone Edge? Bug is practically nonexistant in OU. Yanmega with Tinted Lens would do super effective damage with Bug Moves. Poison is a very rare type offensively bar the occasional Tentacruel packing Sludge Bomb. Normal is very rare in OU as well. Ice is... Well packed by pokes that can practically OHKO Frosslass with every other move on its repertoire. If you really don't believe me, give me a few examples and I will run calcs. The fact I'm not running calcs right now is because I really don't know what you're referring to when you say "resisted hits."

The prevalence of Steel types that would jump in for a chance to kill Frosslass is also a hole in this strategy.

This strategy doesn't work sorry. It looks good on paper but honestly it will not work out trust me. Heatran and Scizor are practically on every other team. Both of which just annihilate this team bar Gliscor. Honestly I have not tried this set but I have tried a similar set with Confuse Ray, Sub, Pain Split, and Spikes. It did not work out. I had Toxic Spikes up with my Tentacruel so I usually didn't find a dire need for Toxic. You can't abuse Toxic like this because when they see what you're doing on the first turn, any competent trainer will switch in a Steel or a Taunter and shut you down entirely. This set has been done before. People have tried it and the reason Frosslass is not in OU is because of the metagame that makes this set practically impossible to pull off.

I should have made it clearer but the Frosslass set I was addressing was the UU lead. It functions great in UU but its uses are limited in OU. Many try for Parafusion but imo because there is no way it can stall for long enough or function well enough unless the set is pitted against a nonstandard OU team. The occasional poison type shuts this down as well. When taking into account that this team itself has Tentacruel, you see how easy this is to break. Gengar resists poison and comes in to speed tie your Frosslass for the easy kill. Also, this set provides no synergy to your team. Entry hazards are crucial for hail stall teams. I'm not saying you need Spikes on your team as Frosslass is a terrible Spiker in OU even if you have Parafusion Snow Cloak and Brightpowder all jumbled up because there are simply too many checks for Frosslass strategies in OU. Frosslass can function to some degree especially in hail but you have to be very careful how you play it. By setting it as an independent staller you harshly limits its capabilities as much of its effectiveness comes from the fast Taunt and DBond it can provide to its teammates. DBond is fantastic on Frosslass being as fast as she is. Of course, it's not the only option.

As to your comment there is never only one set a poke can pull off effectively: Have you had Luvdisc on any of your teams? How bout Far Fetch'd? These pokes have NO sets they can pull off effectively in OU. And I may not have been clear but I was talking about the sets viable in OU because that's what this team is.

As a closing statement, please give me some pokes in OU that Frosslass can resist and I will promptly run calculations. Thank you. :]

Sorry if I offended. I don't mean to. >_<

EDIT: What would he replace for a Steel Killer other than Frosslass?

 

[jc104]

Hello. This looks like a solid hail team. However, I think you could benefit from the removal of Froslass in favour of a Heatran, preferably with a Scarf set. First of all, you have two heavy stallers already, so a third one may just be overkill. Secondly, the strategy relies largely on luck, given that even with a defensive spread, many things can easily OHKO Froslass. If you were to keep him, I would suggest the use of a faster, more support-orientated set, with enough speed to outrun base 100s. However, Froslass is merely adding to the weaknesses of your team, both to Rock, for whom you have no resistor, and to fire, as well as compounding the tyranitar and Scizor weakness. Even when not running a stall team I advise against two pursuit-weak pokemon.

Consequently I suggest replacing her with a Scarf Heatran, though a Shuca berry set could work too. First of all, Heatran provides a very important steel resistance for your team, allowing you to switch into Mixed Salamence's and Specs Latias' Draco Meteors. Heatran can finish off salamence witch dragon pulse, outrunning with a scarf or surviving EQ with a Shuca berry. Latias can be 2HKOed by the same move, and fails to OHKO back even with a specs surf. Heatran also lets you defeat a DDSalamence after it has locked itself into outrage against Rotom-F, Gliscor or Walrein, surviving a +1 outrage easily.

Secondly, Heatran provides an effective method of breaking through OU many steel-types, who are immune to toxic spikes, such as Skarmory, who can beat both Walrein and Abomasnow. Heatran's explosion can also stategically remove pretty much any threat that is giving you trouble.

Finally, Heatran provides a very important immunity to Fire-type moves, which your team is weak to, and can even discourage their use through flash fire.

Regarding other pokemon, I would suggest a change to Walrein's spread. Walrein needs 220HP in order that it might recover all of the health lost in making a substitute suring the two turns of the sub + protect cycle. I would therefore suggest 220 HP 252def 36spdef.

I'm sure this was merely an error, but tentacruel wants 252hp evs, not attack. You may also benefit from Blizzard, over sludge bomb.

Given Rotom-A is carrying a large burden as a spin blocker, and will likely be your switch in for many threats, I feel it needs a reliable recovery option. Therefore i would recommend the following RestTalk set:

Rotom-A @ leftovers
252hp 120 def 136 spdef
-Tbolt
-Will-o-wisp
-Rest
-Sleep talk

This also provides your team with an all-important status absorber, helping to deal better with Breloom and other sleep users.

I would highly recommend against changing your abomasnow or Gliscor sets as suggested by others. The only possible change worth considering is a Sassy nature on abomasnow, so you keep Hail against TTar leads.

Good luck.

 

[Pancham]

Hello. This looks like a solid hail team. However, I think you could benefit from the removal of Froslass in favour of a Heatran, preferably with a Scarf set. First of all, you have two heavy stallers already, so a third one may just be overkill. Secondly, the strategy relies largely on luck, given that even with a defensive spread, many things can easily OHKO Froslass. If you were to keep him, I would suggest the use of a faster, more support-orientated set, with enough speed to outrun base 100s. However, Froslass is merely adding to the weaknesses of your team, both to Rock, for whom you have no resistor, and to fire, as well as compounding the tyranitar and Scizor weakness. Even when not running a stall team I advise against two pursuit-weak pokemon.

Consequently I suggest replacing her with a Scarf Heatran, though a Shuca berry set could work too. First of all, Heatran provides a very important steel resistance for your team, allowing you to switch into Mixed Salamence's and Specs Latias' Draco Meteors. Heatran can finish off salamence witch dragon pulse, outrunning with a scarf or surviving EQ with a Shuca berry. Latias can be 2HKOed by the same move, and fails to OHKO back even with a specs surf. Heatran also lets you defeat a DDSalamence after it has locked itself into outrage against Rotom-F, Gliscor or Walrein, surviving a +1 outrage easily.

Secondly, Heatran provides an effective method of breaking through OU many steel-types, who are immune to toxic spikes, such as Skarmory, who can beat both Walrein and Abomasnow. Heatran's explosion can also stategically remove pretty much any threat that is giving you trouble.

Finally, Heatran provides a very important immunity to Fire-type moves, which your team is weak to, and can even discourage their use through flash fire.

Regarding other pokemon, I would suggest a change to Walrein's spread. Walrein needs 220HP in order that it might recover all of the health lost in making a substitute suring the two turns of the sub + protect cycle. I would therefore suggest 220 HP 252def 36spdef.

I'm sure this was merely an error, but tentacruel wants 252hp evs, not attack. You may also benefit from Blizzard, over sludge bomb.

Given Rotom-A is carrying a large burden as a spin blocker, and will likely be your switch in for many threats, I feel it needs a reliable recovery option. Therefore i would recommend the following RestTalk set:

Rotom-A @ leftovers
252hp 120 def 136 spdef
-Tbolt
-Will-o-wisp
-Rest
-Sleep talk

This also provides your team with an all-important status absorber, helping to deal better with Breloom and other sleep users.

I would highly recommend against changing your abomasnow or Gliscor sets as suggested by others. The only possible change worth considering is a Sassy nature on abomasnow, so you keep Hail against TTar leads.

Good luck.

Thanks for seeing the 252Atk typo. And yeah, Sassy is good on Aboma, I was actually thinking of that. And thanks for the Rotom-A think I might try that. And, yeah, I was really thinking Heatran would help me on this team.But, again, thanks for the advice. :D

 

[jc104]

Actually, I have changed my mind about the sassy nature thing. I have not battled so much lately (been on holiday) and since then it seems as if Machamp leads have exploded in usage. You should be slower than most Ttar anyway.

Also, the most obvious error in your team (bar the tentacruel typo) is Walrein's EVs. This really must be addressed as otherwise Walrein will continue to lose health as it stalls.