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NP: UU - Bye Bye Bye
- Thread starter reachzero
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i think the rhyperior user realizes he already won when he found out the tangrowth's user was dumb enough to give it 176 speed evs
Max HP / Max Def is the usual spread. The only reason Rhyperior would run that much Speed is if it had Rock Polish, which adding Speed EVs to Tangrowth does little to help.
Actually 164 Spe EVs on Rhyperior allow it to outpace Weezing and 2HKO it. It also allows it to outpace Clefable and OHKO it.
However running Speed on Tangrowth is still dumb. It allows you to be 2HKOed by Stone Edge and OHKOed by Megahorn with Stealth Rock (assuming you use 252 HP/80 Def with an Impish nature).
None of those ev spreads give a Substitute number unless I've overlooked a post. I like adamant with 136 HP ( to make 101 subs and an extra substitute, and a lefties number), then just 88 SPE for the base 50s which are pretty important (including base 50s running 4Spe). The remainder can be put wherever really, most likely max attack then into defence. I just wanted to touch on the HP and SPE evs. 136Hp/32Def/252Atk/88Spe. Rhyperior is awesome for offensive teams that need some defence against swellow.
I run enough speed to outpace Clefable on a lot of the base 50s I use. I haven't used a Donphan or Azumarill without the 88 speed to outspeed and 2hko Clefable. Outspeeding a lot of shit like Rhyperior who go heavy on speed is a nice bonus as well. And the most speed that I would run on a Rhyperior is honestly 138 to outspeed 4 speed Regirock and Registeel. CB Rhyperior can go for 168 evs to beat out Clefable and everything below, but I wouldn't waste that much bulk on a Sub set. also again uberiffic shut
I don't know if you are trying to outspeed some other stuff but 84 spe evs are enough to outspeed those 2, 88 if you think some might run the 4Spe. Again, maybe you are including some other stuff like Omastar but even that only needs 128 IIRC
Yeah, I pretty much got the whole "wanting to outspeed weezing thing after I posted. For one, i didn't want to contradict myself, and two, it was pretty late and I just got back from vacation...ironically, I was pretty tired lol. Being able to get that sub off before pain split ot god forbid, WoW makes sure the momentum stays in your favor. But like I said before, only if your team is that scared of weezing...there is just much better checks for it. Also, I haven't seen a spike in it's usuage really...I've only been gone for like 3 days. The only person I've seen use it regularly is pana.
He meant a Speed stat of 138 obviously.
Deleted like a thousand stupid posts and their replies or something. Tried to edit out portions of posts that are still helpful to make it a little less of a post massacre. Future infractions are going to be as harsh as I can possibly justify giving, stop posting stupid shit. It should be obvious it isn't ok to post misinformation and/or to post foolish crap that hasn't been thought out or tested or is plainly inferior to stuff easily available in the analyses. You've been warned.
sigh
You. Are. Not. Checking. Weezing. You're just using it for another free sub, so that when something that comes in can actually kill you (your opponent will realize Weezing loses the second that Substitute goes up), they'll either take the hit or die altogether. Weezing is not a threat to anything but physical sweepers, so it doesn't need to be countered by Rhyperior. Rhyperior just wants the free sub and for one less thing to counter him. >_> How is this so hard to understand?
Sorry for using the word "check", but what you said is what I meant. Like I said...keeping the momentum...
I really don't think people should be running much SPE or SATK on their walls. For example, the Tangrowth EV'd to outrun Rhyperior will take 75.7% - 89.4% from a +2 Kabutops Stone Edge, and is OHKO'd by Rhyperior's CB Megahorn. I've been seeing a bunch of Milotic running around with high SPE to outrun Jolly Aggron and things too, and these have the same issue (I've 2hko'd Milotic with my Arcanine's Flare Blitz).
Don't try to make your walls do too much or they'll end up sucking at their primary job. Tangrowth and things should never run more than 76 SPE.
Don't try to make your walls do too much or they'll end up sucking at their primary job. Tangrowth and things should never run more than 76 SPE.
Tangrowth is a good check to Kabutops. Once Kabutops gets a Swords Dance, Tangrowth is nowhere near a check, unless you consider fainting Kabutops, but being at 35% or less health (max HP/Def Impish) checking. Tangrowth won't be able to do too much after that.
Running speed on Milotic isn't that bad, as it has a decent speed stat to abuse. IMO, the offensive set is actually better to use that decent speed and great Sp. Atk.
Running speed on Milotic isn't that bad, as it has a decent speed stat to abuse. IMO, the offensive set is actually better to use that decent speed and great Sp. Atk.
What are you talking about? Tangrowth is as good a counter as any to Kabutops. 2+ SE doesn't OHKO and that's all he needs seeing as how Tangrowth will switch into Swords Dance.
Running speed on Milotic is just silly imo. It outspeeds basically all it needs. Sure you can run speed to outspeed Jolly Aggron but you are giving up 86 of your speed EV's. I'll give you that, running enough speed to outspeed max speed Adamant Aggron and other junk is useful, but going past 40 ish is to far for me.
Couldn't agree more. Plus I have found that walls need thier defenses more then ever as they are being used to check such a large amount of the meta with many people doubling up on tactics to open up a sleep.
Also I have been looking at NU and wondering if how the MilkTank combo would fair in UU?
Also I have been looking at NU and wondering if how the MilkTank combo would fair in UU?
Stats are going to be interesting after this round -- there is no clear cut Pokemon that sticks out as a glue on every team. Venusaur is barely seeing usage from the ladder games I play. I will however make the point that Mesprit will probably end up taking Uxie's #2 spot since its easily the most reliable lead at the moment. It isn't as predictable as Uxie and it can certainely gain you an early momentum at the start of the match. Wether your Tricking a Scarf, catching an Omastar off guard, or spreading paralysis, its always going to be useful. I recommend trying Mesprit people, it won't dissapoint.
On another note, I'd love to see Jynx and Tauros make UU this round -- both shit on the tier at the moment. I have peaked a Tauros team at #1 this round and I can safely say that its one of the most destructive sweepers in UU since it matches well with both offense and stall, provided my predictions are on point. It just requires a bit of support to remove Ghost-types. FlareBlitz can speak for Jynx's power, that hoe is too much to handle on the ladder apparently and I've seen him single handedly take down teams with it, provided there is no hax. My only suggestion is to get out of the bog standard Moltres/Venu/Milotic cores and start using some underrated threats like Jynx and Tauros. Some underrated defensive Pokemon are rising in usage as well like Tangrowth and Weezing, so this is a good sign that UU is heading to the right direction.
On another note, I'd love to see Jynx and Tauros make UU this round -- both shit on the tier at the moment. I have peaked a Tauros team at #1 this round and I can safely say that its one of the most destructive sweepers in UU since it matches well with both offense and stall, provided my predictions are on point. It just requires a bit of support to remove Ghost-types. FlareBlitz can speak for Jynx's power, that hoe is too much to handle on the ladder apparently and I've seen him single handedly take down teams with it, provided there is no hax. My only suggestion is to get out of the bog standard Moltres/Venu/Milotic cores and start using some underrated threats like Jynx and Tauros. Some underrated defensive Pokemon are rising in usage as well like Tangrowth and Weezing, so this is a good sign that UU is heading to the right direction.
I completely agree with you. And now we turn to OU weather and it seems that Latias has been, and Salamence may follow suit. We are looking at possibly sunny skies for the OU metagame.
On a serious note I still see Venusaur on every possible team.
Some food underrated pokemon for thought.
1.Articuno. If your team HATES milotic and other bulky waters and you want to beat them every single time consider running Articuno. (Who performs a lot better in UU than in NU) You just need some rapid spin support.
2.Raic-Manetric. It's speed is actually pretty awesome for this metagame and it hits like a truck. Often times I see a Venusaur switch only to eat a boosted Overheat in the face. Tricking a Chansey a Choice Specs is also pretty fun. Unlike Articuno you don't really need that much support because Manetric is a general haymaker.
3. Offensive Milotic. It's got just the right stats in just the right places, and it can catch A LOT of teams of guard. Really and sort of offense will do, Scarf, Specs etc.
Max speed on milotic does allow him to outspeed some usefull things. Although this is probably in the analasys, he outspeeds modest moltres, as well as all blaziken (usefull if SD ken gives your team trouble [read:me and a hell of a lot of other teams] since a +2 superpower KO'es, they won't switch.) and altaria (not as important since theres little it can do to you). Excellent check for blaziken and moltres, since (provided you switch in on moltres air slash) they will stay in expecting to KO. Hydro pump accuracy is an ass, but definatly worth it. It's surprise is what nets me so many wins, but I don't need to hide that im using it, cause for one, I havn't updated the team since the yanmega era, so most people probably know im running it, and two, I finally made a new team! yeah for unlazyness!
speaking of moltres, I tested a timid moltres with flamethrower. power was a little too underwhelming, but it had it's uses. Fun to outspeed things that normally outspeed modest moltres. I actually won two games I would've lost because of flamethorwers extra PP, and you never realize how high that 15% miss chance is until you stop using it. (Of course I still use hydro pump milotic which misses way more). Although since moltres is the main early game heavy hitter for me, it wasn't worth it. However, for teams that rely on moltres for more of a late game cleaner might find it a viable change.
Lastly, as mentioned ealier, I made new team. I don't want it to be so much focused on winning, as much as anti-metagame. The gimmicks and variety are starting to settle down, so I'm hoping to flush them out again. Plus, it will help show any pokemon that could possibly be suspects, since at this point, I think it's unanimous that some pokemon, like rotom or moltres, while very powerfull, have their fare share of counters. It involves countering common trends like toxicroak/houndoom/EQ resist cores, as well as providing options against threats like moltres (may need that milotic after all), milotic, rotom, mismagius, stall, rain, mesprit, etc. Only done a little testing so far, but it's been doing amazing. If tests continue well, will post more about team and skeleton of team building later.
I'm not sure what the skill level of the players you are playing against is, but most 'good' players will be able to tell whether Milotic is running a defensive set or an offensive set by the amount of damage Air Slash does.
Modest 252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Air Slash against 248 HP Bold Milotic: 35.9% - 42.2%
Modest 252 SpA Life Orb Moltrse Air Slash against 4 HP Timid Milotic: 42.5% - 50%
That is a noticeable difference. It is also easy to tell what type of Milotic you are facing after it has switched into an attack. Offensive Milotic are rarely, and by rarely I essentially mean never, seen running Leftovers. If the Milotic has Leftovers, it is almost guaranteed to be a Bulky Water varient. If the Milotic is lacking Leftovers, it is most certainly offensive.
Better players will only leave their Moltres in against Milotic if they are certain of their ability to outspeed and KO with HP Grass (they have verified that Milotic is not running max Speed or they are using Timid Moltres) or they have no other available options and choose to sacrifice Moltres for a safe switch-in.
Modest 252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Air Slash against 248 HP Bold Milotic: 35.9% - 42.2%
Modest 252 SpA Life Orb Moltrse Air Slash against 4 HP Timid Milotic: 42.5% - 50%
That is a noticeable difference. It is also easy to tell what type of Milotic you are facing after it has switched into an attack. Offensive Milotic are rarely, and by rarely I essentially mean never, seen running Leftovers. If the Milotic has Leftovers, it is almost guaranteed to be a Bulky Water varient. If the Milotic is lacking Leftovers, it is most certainly offensive.
Better players will only leave their Moltres in against Milotic if they are certain of their ability to outspeed and KO with HP Grass (they have verified that Milotic is not running max Speed or they are using Timid Moltres) or they have no other available options and choose to sacrifice Moltres for a safe switch-in.
1. Articuno is a beast; I used one in OU because I had ice for the monotype tourney in round 1. It takes a STAB fire blast from heatran and roosts it off like a champ. It's hella hard to take down, but it's just offputting because of it's horrendous typing and awful 4x SR weakness.
2. I've never used Raichu, but I remember when I first started UU, I used a SubManectric and it beat a lot of things. Electric is a nice offensive type, but I always feel like I'm being redundant when I use it alongside a grass-type. I just lean towards grass because it has better defensive typing.
3. Offensive Milotic is so overrated. It's pretty much dead weight against stall and can't really counter the things it's "supposed to". I guess because it's offensive, it shouldn't, but there's just better options imo.
Edit: Anyone know when the server was reset? I just want to know when this round ends.
I co-sign this. Articuno is just so hard to take down without a Rock type move (since a fire attack just wont cut it sometimes), and it just sits there and takes hits from everything. It also counters Venusaur amazingly, the only pokemon that doesnt care what set it's running at all.
@uberiffic: people still use Modest Moltres?
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