Deal or No Deal Team

[SuperGeneration]

Deal or No Deal
​

The title above shows the main idea for my team: my pokemons are built mainly to counter the pokemons that are often used to switch in to hit it. Therefore, with a correct prediction, my pokemon will do a huge damage on the switched pokemon.

For example, many of the players switch in Magnezone to trap and kill Jirachi (as normal Jirachi set are not every effective to hit Magnezone). Scizor and Forretress are also considered as safe to suffer physical Jirachi's attacks. Therefore, with Fire Punch, my Jirachi can make a big surprise, take a lot of HP from the enemy (if not OKHO), and make my rival think twice ("Deal or No Deal") before switching such pokemon in next time.

My team is also designed to counter most popular power-boosted-pokemons nowadays, such as Salamance/Gyarados after 1 Dragon Dance, Scizor/Lucario after 1 or 2 Sword Dance, Suicuine/Jirachi after 1 or 2 Calm Mind, etc.

After all, it is my team:
Jirachi - lead
Blissey - special wall
Donphan - physical wall
Heatran - versatile scarftran
Starmie - special sweeper
Salamance - physical sweeper

The versatile leader

​

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Speed
Nature: Jolly
Move:
Iron Head
Stealth Rock
Fire Punch
Trick

I call it "versatile leader", as it can be used for multi-functions:
- Set hazard entry: No lead without Scarf can be faster than my Jirachi, and of course, if the enemy team's lead holding Scarf, it will not waste a turn to Taunt my Jirachi and switch out. Therefore, when starting the battle, I can ensure the Stealth Rock is always set. In some lucky cases, if the enemy team's lead is Azelf or Aerodactyl, there is a high chance that it will use Taunt. Of course, as my Jirachi is faster, my rival will waste 1 turn.

- Disable one wall with Scarf: Blissey, Snorlax Curse and Suicuine Calm mind are really annoying, but luckily all of them are useless if being stuck into a Scarf. Both Snorlax and Suicuine are quite ready to tank and use Curse/Calm mind followed by Rest when realizing that my Jirachi has Fire Punch, instead of Thunder Punch. Therefore, being tricked to Scarf, they will be stuck in Curse or Calm mind forever, and even if they are switched out, Blissey/Snorlax/Suicuine will become useless after that.

- Remove Jirachi's counter: Scizor, Lucario, Forrestress, and Magnezone are considered as safe choices to switch in to suffer Jirachi's attack. All of them are weak to Fire. After switch in, normally Scizor and Lucario will use Sword Dance, Forrestress rapid spins or set hazard entries, and Magnezone traps and try to kill Jirachi. Faster than all of them, Jirachi's Fire punch damages them more than 50% HP, and combined a little with SR, those four pokemons will barely die after that (or OKHO for Scizor's case).

- Hit and tank: with Serene Grace, Iron Head has 60% of causing enemy to be flinched. With 252 EVs for Atk and STAB, this move is really worth to use. Different from a slow Togekiss, there are not many pokemon can outspeed Jolly Jirachi 176 EVs Speed (even without Scarf), and so, Iron head would be quite useful.

The prudent cleric

​

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 150 HP / 252 Def / 76 Spc Atk / 26 Spc Def / 6 Speed
Nature: Bold
Move:
Aromatherapy
Softboiled
Shadow Ball
Toxic

The main jobs for my Blissey are to be a special wall, heal her teammates' statuses and poison enemy pokemons.
- A full HP Blissey are safe to be switched in almost OU special attack pokemons, except Gengar/Alakazam max Spc. Atk Choice Spec Focus Blast (which are very, very rare nowadays). As no player wants to waste one special atk pokemon, they will switch another pokemon in, so my Blissey can have a turn to heal her teammates with Aromatherapy, recover with Softboiled, or badly poison the next pokemon with Toxic.

- Normal Blissey has Seismic Toss, so Gengar can be switched in to hit her with Focus Blast. After a SR, Blissey's Shadow Ball will 2KO Gengar. For other Ghost Pokemon, Shadow Ball also work very well. Moreover, interestingly, Shadow Ball is enough to break Breloom's Subtitute, i.e., prevent its Focus Punch.

- 150 HP and 252 Def help Blissey takes physical hit, and once the enemy pokemon is badly poisoned, everything Blissey has to do is to stand and keep using Softboiled until the enemy pokemon is poisoned to death. However, this strategy is not applicable to very offensive pokemons (for example, 252 EV Atk Salamence/Gyarados), or fighting pokemons (Machamp, Infernape...). Such cases would be the time to switch Donphan or Salamence in.

The dragon killer

​

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 146 Def
Nature: Adamant
Move:
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Assurance
Ice Shard

My Donphan is used as a physical wall, a rapid spinner, a dragon killer, and Steel-type sweeper.
- With 252 EVs HP and 146 EVs Def, Donphan is a reliable physical wall, who can suffer hit and pay back the enemy with its high attack after that.

- Its priority move Ice Shard is 4x effective to the most common dragon: Salamence, Dragonite and Flygon. After switch in, it will use Ice Shard, damage a huge HP from those dragons, suffer one attack (even Salamence's or Dragonite's Outrage after one or two Dragon Dance), then use Ice Shard again to finish those dragons.

- As a rapin spinner, if my rival has a ghost pokemon in his team, there is a high chance that he will switch it in to prevent my Donphan from spinning. It is the time Assurance to work. With the power quadrupled thanks to SR and effectiveness, the power of this move will be 200. If it cannot KO, Donphan's Ice Shard will do this task next turn, so nothing can prevent my spinner from spinning anymore.

- With high attack and STAB, Earthquake it really worth to used. It can OKO Heatran, Infernape, and even Jirachi after SR. It also help Donphan to tank and hit Metagross.

The sacrificer

​

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 Atk / 252 Spc Atk / 252 Speed
Nature: Naive
Move:
Flamethrower
Earth Power
Hidden Power Ice
Explosion

Heatran's Flamethrower is powerful, and it can KO a lot of pokemons after Flash Fire and SR. Earthpower is useful to kill Infernape and other slower Heatran (what are very popular, as my Heatran's speed is maximum). Hidden Power Ice can kill common Dragons, who are trying to remove Heatran by Earthquake. With Scarf, my Heatran can easily remove Scizor or Lucario, even if they have boosted Sword Dance once or twice.

With maximum speed, my Heatran can out-speed ALL Gyrados and Kingdra after 1 Dragon Dance, unless they are Jolly and have 252 EVs for Speed. After 1 Dragon Dance, Gyarados/Kingdra will surely use Waterfall to hit Heatran and my rival will be quite surprising when seeing his pokemon faints after the turn due to my Heatran's explosion.

The shining star

​

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spc Atk / 252 Speed
Nature: Timid
Move:
Surf
Psychic
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt

Personally, I think that Starmie is one of the most useful special sweeper.
- The base speed of 115 and maximum EVs/Nature for speed help it out-speed all OU non-scarf pokemons, except Ninjiask, Jolteon, Aerodactly, and Wealive. No one uses Ninjiask or Aerodactly to counter Starmie, so only Jolteon and Wealive left. Jolteon is easily lured by my Blissey, and Wealive can do nothing when I switch in my Heatran.

- Surf is its most powerful attack, with 252 EVs for Special Attack, Life Orb and STAB, it can do quite a little damage on everything that does not resist it. It is also used to KO Infernape, Heatran, Glisor, Mamoswine, Hippowdon... (especially after SR), and 2KO many other pokemons (Scizor, Tyranitar, Rotom (all forms), Magnezone...).

- Psychic also receives STAB, what is to KO Machamp, Hitmantop and Gengar (after SR). It is also the most powerful attack to hit Kingdra and Tentacruel (2KO).

- Thunderbolt is used to to kill Gyrados. Starmie can suffer Gyarados' Earthquake or Stone Edge or Waterfall even after 1 Dragon Dance, and then finish it with thunderbolt.

- Icebeam is used to KO common dragon pokemons (except Kingdra).

The rise of power

​

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 Atk / 26 Spc Atk / 252 Speed
Nature: Naive
Move:
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Earthquake
Fire Blast

My Salamence is the most offensive pokemon in my team, and it possesses most powerful attacks. Its all functions are attack, attack and attack.

The speed of Salamence is maximum so that it has a high chance to out-speed other 100 base speed pokemons, who are very common in OU nowadays.

With Life Orb and 232 EVs for Atk, Outrage do a huge damage on all non-steel pokemons. For steel pokemons, it is time to use Earthquake and Fire Blast. Earthquake has 100% accuracy and it can take full advantage of Salamence's high attack, but it does not affect Skarmony and do little damage on highly physical defensive steel pokemons. In such cases, Fire Blast becomes useful. Earthquake also help Salamance to face to Heatran, in which case both Outrage, Draco Meteor and Fire Blast is useless.

My Salamence learns Draco Meteor, instead of Dragon Dance, because I found it more useful. When a Salamence is switched in to face to a vulnerable pokemon (for example, Skarmony or non-scarf Heatran); most of players will use one free turn (in which the enemy takes to switch other pokemon in to counter Salamence) to use Dragon Dance. However, as it is so common, almost everyone will switch pokemon that is not afraid DD Salamence, for example, a pokemon with Ice Shard. In such cases, the player will have to withdraw Salamence, and the Dragon Dance turn is wasted. Therefore, using Draco Meteor, my Salamence can take a lot of HP from the switched pokemon (or even OKHO it), and then run next turn to prevent from being threatened by Ice Shard.

Conclusion
​

After all, you may ask why 3 pokemons (Heatran, Salamence and Jirachi) must have Fire type moves? Similarly, 3 pokemons (Heatran, Donphan and Starmie) has Ice type moves, and 3 pokemons (Heatran, Donphan and Salamence) has Earth type moves. Are they superabundant and excessive?

I chose them purposely, because they are super effective to Dragon and Steel pokemons, who are very popular in OU nowadays. By having more than 1 pokemon knowing this type of move, I can ensure that even a pokemon faints, there are someone can take its part. Also, despite the face that sharing same types, the moves are also have slightly differences, as well as the pokemon having the moves are totally distinctive what should be used in different cases.

I have tried my best to build and organize my team, however, in some cases, I cannot do anything other than ragequitting or losing. One example is to face some sort of a baton pass team, as all of my pokemons do not have Taunt or Encore or a powerful priority move. To everyone who has read my thread, please help me to rate and optimize it. Thank you very much.

 

[Tag]

Specifically, I don't see how you have a big problem with Baton Pass. All you do is Trick your Scarf from Jirachi onto one of the pokemon who sets up something important and bam. Not to mention if you break their chain with that then they're easy to beat.

 

[firecape]

I am a little bit confused, could you explain how Jirachi deals with Magnezone when it is scarfed into Iron Head because you haven't tricked away scarf yet....

Also for blissey if you move the HP evs (which aren't needed with such a high HP like blisseys) into special defence and change the nature to calm (bold gives like 10 more defence points if I remember...) Gengar will be hard pressed to 3hitKO blissey with focus blast, needing to hit above average on all 3, not to mention hitting 3 consecutive focus blasts is very unlikely with 70% accuracy. This means you could switch in on a focus blast and simply heal. Just a nitpick

 

[maxbarnyard]

Not to rag too hard, but it seems there's a flaw in your logic with your blissey's shadow ball. You say that since it breaks a Breloom's sub that it'd flinch it out of the Focus Punch, but that's simply not true. In order to both break a sub and flinch something out of Focus Punch you would need a multiple-hit move, since the first hit is taken entirely by the sub, no matter how powerful it is.

 

[SuperGeneration]

Specifically, I don't see how you have a big problem with Baton Pass. All you do is Trick your Scarf from Jirachi onto one of the pokemon who sets up something important and bam. Not to mention if you break their chain with that then they're easy to beat.

It is how a Baton Pass Team defeat me:
The battle starts.
1) Turn 1:
- Ninjiask uses Protect.
- Jirachi uses Trick.
- Ninjiask protected itself.
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed
2) Turn 2:
- Ninjiask uses Subtitute
- Jirachi uses Trick
- But it failed
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed
3) Turn 3:
- SuperGeneration switchs in another pokemon.
- Ninjiask uses Baton pass.
...
Then after that, with 2 stages speed boosted and subtitute, the chain is unbreakable (especially for my team). I can do nothing but quitting.

Not to rag too hard, but it seems there's a flaw in your logic with your blissey's shadow ball. You say that since it breaks a Breloom's sub that it'd flinch it out of the Focus Punch, but that's simply not true. In order to both break a sub and flinch something out of Focus Punch you would need a multiple-hit move, since the first hit is taken entirely by the sub, no matter how powerful it is.

My blissey cannot break substitute and cause Breloom flinch at the same time. However, if Blissey keeps using Shadow ball, Breloom's substitute will keep being broken right after it is created (as Blissey is slower than Breloom).Therefore, Breloom will not be able to use Focus Punch, as nothing prevent it from flinching.

I am a little bit confused, could you explain how Jirachi deals with Magnezone when it is scarfed into Iron Head because you haven't tricked away scarf yet....

Also for blissey if you move the HP evs (which aren't needed with such a high HP like blisseys) into special defence and change the nature to calm (bold gives like 10 more defence points if I remember...) Gengar will be hard pressed to 3hitKO blissey with focus blast, needing to hit above average on all 3, not to mention hitting 3 consecutive focus blasts is very unlikely with 70% accuracy. This means you could switch in on a focus blast and simply heal. Just a nitpick

My Jirachi will not use Iron Head when it is holding a Scarf, unless there is no choice. Normally if it needs to use Iron Head, it will throw the Scarf to the enemy first. In other cases, if tricking the Scarf is not a clever choice (for example, if the enemy pokemon is also holding a Scarf), I prefer to switch another pokemon in, and preserve the Scarf to use when necessary.

For Blissey's EVs, I invest into HP because I want Blissey to survive longer when facing with physical hits. In OU, there is almost no special attack pokemon dares to hit and tank with Blissey without boost, so her Special Defense is only useful when switching her in to suffer attack. Porygon Z with Tri Attack, Alakazam and Gengar with Focus Blast are few exceptions. Porygon Z is BL, and Alakazam is UU, only Gengar is common. Gengar's Focus Blast (with Life Orb) takes my Blissey about 35% HP.
- Let my Blissey be in to suffer one Focus Blast, it lost 35%, and recover 6% after this turn -> If there is SR, my Blissey's HP left is 100% - 12% - 35% + 6% = 59%
- In the next turn, Gengar continues to use Focus Blast, my Blissey lost 35%. My Blissey uses Softboiled. After the second turn, my Blissey has 59% - 35% + 50% + 6% = 80%.
Therefore, after being switched in to suffer 1 Focus Blast, my Blissey will use Softboiled next turn immediately, and it will recover up to 80% HP after that. If there is not SR, my Blissey's HP would be 92%. Anyway, it is quite enough for special defense, and so, I think that investing some EVS for HP let Blissey take a little more physical hit is reasonable.
(On smogon website, it is even recommended a Cleric Blissey with 252 HP/252Def).

 

[SuperGeneration]

I don't really see how your team is"unpredictable" many jarachi leads carry fire punch, only shadow ball blissy is strange.

Many Jirachis have Fire Punch, but not Jirachi lead with Scarf. Lead Scarfachi has U-turn instead. The normal move set is:
Iron head
Trick
Stealth Rock
U-turn
The purspose is when Jirachi cannot deal with something, it can use U-turn, so we can freely switch another pokemon regardless being trapped, and at the same time do a damage on enemy.

However, I found that U-turn is weak, as it is often used when we want to switch out Jirachi rather than when it is super effective. And if we are afraid of being trapped by Magnezone, Fire Punch solves this problem quite well. Moreover, Fire Punch also deal with Scizor, Forrestress, other Jirachi, etc.

If you want to talk about the distinctions of my team, I think that they are some:
- Lead Jirachi with Scarf and Fire Punch.
- Donphan and its Assurance. Assurance is a popular move for Donphan if it is used as Rapid Spinner; however, as Donphan is an UU pokemon, not many players know this.
- Blissey with Shadow Ball.
- Heatran with Scarf a and Hidden Power Ice (normal Scarf Heatran has Hidden power Grass or Electric or Dragon Pulse).

 

[SuperGeneration]

Can anyone help me how to optimize my team? (Eg., treat with Baton Pass one)

 

[Tag]

It is how a Baton Pass Team defeat me:
The battle starts.
1) Turn 1:
- Ninjiask uses Protect.
- Jirachi uses Trick.
- Ninjiask protected itself.
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed
2) Turn 2:
- Ninjiask uses Subtitute
- Jirachi uses Trick
- But it failed
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed
3) Turn 3:
- SuperGeneration switchs in another pokemon.
- Ninjiask uses Baton pass.
...
Then after that, with 2 stages speed boosted and subtitute, the chain is unbreakable (especially for my team). I can do nothing but quitting.



My blissey cannot break substitute and cause Breloom flinch at the same time. However, if Blissey keeps using Shadow ball, Breloom's substitute will keep being broken right after it is created (as Blissey is slower than Breloom).Therefore, Breloom will not be able to use Focus Punch, as nothing prevent it from flinching.



My Jirachi will not use Iron Head when it is holding a Scarf, unless there is no choice. Normally if it needs to use Iron Head, it will throw the Scarf to the enemy first. In other cases, if tricking the Scarf is not a clever choice (for example, if the enemy pokemon is also holding a Scarf), I prefer to switch another pokemon in, and preserve the Scarf to use when necessary.

For Blissey's EVs, I invest into HP because I want Blissey to survive longer when facing with physical hits. In OU, there is almost no special attack pokemon dares to hit and tank with Blissey without boost, so her Special Defense is only useful when switching her in to suffer attack. Porygon Z with Tri Attack, Alakazam and Gengar with Focus Blast are few exceptions. Porygon Z is BL, and Alakazam is UU, only Gengar is common. Gengar's Focus Blast (with Life Orb) takes my Blissey about 35% HP.
- Let my Blissey be in to suffer one Focus Blast, it lost 35%, and recover 6% after this turn -> If there is SR, my Blissey's HP left is 100% - 12% - 35% + 6% = 59%
- In the next turn, Gengar continues to use Focus Blast, my Blissey lost 35%. My Blissey uses Softboiled. After the second turn, my Blissey has 59% - 35% + 50% + 6% = 80%.
Therefore, after being switched in to suffer 1 Focus Blast, my Blissey will use Softboiled next turn immediately, and it will recover up to 80% HP after that. If there is not SR, my Blissey's HP would be 92%. Anyway, it is quite enough for special defense, and so, I think that investing some EVS for HP let Blissey take a little more physical hit is reasonable.
(On smogon website, it is even recommended a Cleric Blissey with 252 HP/252Def).

That's why you Fire Punch from the start. I meant for late game. If they have a special sweeper, Blissey walls them.

 

[HeiSe]

Never get Trick locked into Ninjask and just Iron Head it's Subs to death so the only thing it passes is speed. Then switch Rachi back in later in the chain and Trick your Scarf to a key set-upper.

 

[c.falcon-arrgh]

Give donphan head smash instead of assurance. Assurance only has 100 power when its supereffective due to a glitch in shoddy that ignores stealth rock damage (I used it before and it didn't even KO rotom in UU after stealth rock damage, and since shoddy 1 is no longer getting glitches fixed, i assume its still glitched up), and that makes head smash more powerful even if assurance is super effective.

Head smash can be quite a pain to bulky flying types like gyarados who likes to switch into you all day, and seeing that you have 252hp the recoil won't matter that much.

 

[SuperGeneration]

That's why you Fire Punch from the start. I meant for late game. If they have a special sweeper, Blissey walls them.

Never get Trick locked into Ninjask and just Iron Head it's Subs to death so the only thing it passes is speed. Then switch Rachi back in later in the chain and Trick your Scarf to a key set-upper.

For Fire Punch/Iron Head:
1) Turn 1:
- Ninjiask uses Protect.
- Jirachi uses Fire Punch.
- Ninjiask protected itself.
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.

2) Turn 2:
- Ninjiask uses Subtitute.
- Jirachi uses Fire punch.
- The substitute took the damage for Ninjiask (and broken).
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.

3) Turn 3:
- Ninjiask uses Protect.
- Jirachi uses Fire Punch.
- Ninjiask protected itself.
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.
...

With the loop above, Jirachi can prevent Ninjiask from making a substitute. However, Ninjiask would be able to boost the speed up to 6 stages. Smeargle would be sent out, Spore any pokemon in the battle of mine, and use a free turn to make the substitute. My scene is not any brighter.

 

[Dummy007]

For Fire Punch/Iron Head:
1) Turn 1:
- Ninjiask uses Protect.
- Jirachi uses Fire Punch.
- Ninjiask protected itself.
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.

2) Turn 2:
- Ninjiask uses Subtitute.
- Jirachi uses Fire punch.
- The substitute took the damage for Ninjiask (and broken).
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.

3) Turn 3:
- Ninjiask uses Protect.
- Jirachi uses Fire Punch.
- Ninjiask protected itself.
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.
...

With the loop above, Jirachi can prevent Ninjiask from making a substitute. However, Ninjiask would be able to boost the speed up to 6 stages. Smeargle would be sent out, Spore any pokemon in the battle of mine, and use a free turn to make the substitute. My scene is not any brighter.

Yes, but with Smeargle's low Defense, a Fire Punch/Iron Head will put it into Donphan's KO range with Ice Shard. In addition, its HP will be too low to make a Substitute, meaning all it can do is Spore. As an added bonus, if you burn Smeargle with Fire Punch, it will faint before it can do much of anything, meaning that you are still in a good position.

 

[Tag]

For Fire Punch/Iron Head:
1) Turn 1:
- Ninjiask uses Protect.
- Jirachi uses Fire Punch.
- Ninjiask protected itself.
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.

2) Turn 2:
- Ninjiask uses Subtitute.
- Jirachi uses Fire punch.
- The substitute took the damage for Ninjiask (and broken).
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.

3) Turn 3:
- Ninjiask uses Protect.
- Jirachi uses Fire Punch.
- Ninjiask protected itself.
- Ninjiask's Speed Boost raises its speed.
...

With the loop above, Jirachi can prevent Ninjiask from making a substitute. However, Ninjiask would be able to boost the speed up to 6 stages. Smeargle would be sent out, Spore any pokemon in the battle of mine, and use a free turn to make the substitute. My scene is not any brighter.

If you're predicting a Spore you obviously switch out to the least useful pokemon on your team and switch back to Jirachi.

4) Turn 4:

Switched out Jirachi for 'blank'
Smeagle used Spore!

5) Turn 5

Switched back to Jirachi
Smeargle used Belly Drum, Ingrain, or something else

From this point they're still outrunning you so he's Baton Passing over to someone to get Defenses and that's when you trick them so they're forced to Baton Pass again. Most Smeargles set up Ingrain so they normally won't have their Attack set up after they Baton Pass.