Much To Learn - RMT -

RodeoJones

Hey, guys. I hadn't played Pokemon since the days of Red and Blue, but picked up Soul Silver and have logged about 400 hours into it. I just started competitive battling today - won my first game, but then got completely slaughtered by a team consisting of Kabutops, Poliwrath and Lanturn. I know I've got a lot to learn, but I'm in need of serious advice before I waste my time with this team. Here's what I'm working with.

EDIT: Here's my edit with all the advice considered. I'm still unsure about Lucario/Scizor and Gliscor/Mence/Dragonite

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Infernape @Focus Sash
Nature: Naive - 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Stealth Rock
Close Combat
Fake Out
Fire Blast

Originally, I wanted Ninetails as my fire-type Pokemon. She's been my favourite Poke for quite some time now, but I was told she's just outclassed by a lot of fire types, especially the Ape. Also, I needed to lay down Stealth Rock - I wanted Steelix to be the one to do this, but in the long run decided he wouldn't cut it in OU. To get to the point, Infernape seems to be the logical choice for my fire type as well as my lead. He's there for Stealth Rock, but if he survives a hit - Fire Blast and Close Combat are there to deal some serious damage. As far as a lead goes, I think Infernape is my number one choice for the team. No change.

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Starmie @ChoiceScarf
Nature: Timid - EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Ability: Natural Cure
Surf
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Psychic


I realized my team is not weak to Stealth Rock or TSpikes...I probably don't even need a rapid spinner. Let's keep Starmie, but make her a REVENGE KILLER. I'm really pumped about her now...I'll go with the Choice Scarf and give her Psychic. I chose Psychic over Grass Knot since Jolteon has HP Grass and I don't have a psychic-type move at all. There's not much description left since I think this spot has been nailed down. First and second Pokes done, now moving on to the harder slots.

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Jolteon @ ChoiceSpecs
Nature: Timid - 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Baton Pass
Hidden Power Grass
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt

Originally had her as a Life Orb set with Charge Beam. Now I've decided to go with the Choice set. The sets I see show Baton Pass in Jolteon's Choice moveset, but I just don't think I'm up to the level to use that...I mean, I just don't see how it's good. There's nothing to pass! Am I just scouting? *Googles for a bit* After looking at Jolteon's moveset, I think I understand why they've got Baton Pass in there - there's really not another option. Charge Beam or Signal Beam are there, but either move just doesn't really do anything. Baton Pass can be used without worry of being Choice-locked in it since Joltey would be switching out. So, is that the right move for the set? I'm kind of confused where to take this Jolteon...I saw a Leftovers version with Substitute, Baton Pass, Wish and Thunderbolt, but I just keep leaning toward the Choice set. This is where I think I may need the most help with the team.


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Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly - EVs: 252HP / 4Def / 252Spe
Earthquake
Taunt
Toxic
Roost

My new addition to the team is Gliscor. Decided to replace Snorlax with him to add that Earthquake move that I'd been lacking. Now I can deal with Lucario, a Poke that wrecked havoc on my team when testing out in Shoddy. My only way to stop it was to pit my own Lucario against theirs. Gliscor will be a good stall breaker. Also, I was having trouble dealing with electric types...no longer with Gliscor. I'll miss Snorlax, but I think Gliscor is a better option. EDIT: I've decided to keep Gliscor (for now) over adding DDMence or a Dragonite. If someone else seconds the idea of swapping out Gliscor for a dragon, I'll do it.

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Suicune @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold - 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Ice Beam
Surf
Calm Mind
Roar

This BulkyCune was added to the team after I decided to drop Steelix and Mismagius for stronger Pokemon. Suicune is in the team to stop dragons with Ice Beam. Calm Mind beefs it up a bit and Rest is there in place of Roar (which I feel might have benefited the team more). Suicune is definitely the weak link of my team, I only have it in there to counter dragons. I'm thinking it needs to be replaced with something that can use Earthquake and Ice Beam (Swampert?). In the two battles I've fought, Suicune didn't add much to the fight. I just feel I'm not using Cune to its full potential. EDIT: Decided to keep BulkyCune over an Offensive Cune but changed her to a Phaser. Replaced Rest with Roar. Rest was just asking to get set up on. Now with Roar, they can't set up at all!
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Lucario @ Life Orb
Nature: Hasty - 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Swords Dance
Close Combat
Extremespeed
Crunch

Lucario will definitely stay in my team. This swords dancer breaks defensive walls and is there for the sweep late in the game. I chose Crunch over Ice Punch for Dusknoir and Celebi, but if I drop Cune, Ice Punch may be a better option. Gliscor totally destroys Luke with Earthquake, but as mentioned earlier, I've got a few pokes to take care of Gliscor. Add another Pokemon weak to Earthquake.

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EDIT: Considering changing Lucario to Scizor, but don't Scizor get torn apart by entry hazards? I'm still new to competitive, but I'm afraid I'd need a Spinner and I'm set on turning Starmie into a Revenge Killer. If it's no biggie, I'll replace Luke with...

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Scizor @Life Orb
Nature: Adamant - 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Brick Break
Bug Bite/Roost

As was suggested, Scizor can take Earthquake (which absolutely KILLS two of my other Pokes) and also can switch into Outrage. We all know Scizor is a beast and can fit into any team, especially when he's swapping in for Lucario. Still, it hurts me to see Luke go. The water types that can mess with Scizor can be properly dealt with by Jolteon and Starmie. Not too worried about water types. Basically, I can see that Scizor does everything Lucario does, but better. :'(

Again, thanks for looking, and thanks for the help.
 
If I were you I would drop the Jolteon and give a choice scarf to starmie. You NEED a dedicated revenge killer or a DDMence or Agiligross will set up and is guaranteed to hit your entire team hard.
 
Very Solid team, not too much needs changing beyond what you've done. Personally i prefer choice sets on Starmie/ Jolteon, and i really would reccomend either putting Choice Scarf of Choice Specs on Starmie, as it's an immesurably useful revenge killer. If you do this, i would replace recover with Psychic.

Other than that the team looks very solid.
 
Hello RodeoJones,

Pretty solid team if it's you're first time playing DPP! Looks like you jumped in knowing all the basics. Few things I noted are that you are flygon weak and you need a phazer because I could see this team getting set up on by ninjask very easily.

The reason this team is weak to flygon is because scarf flygon ohko's infernape, jolteon, and lucario. Even does 70% damage to starmie by u-turning and then u-turns into a pokemon that takes the starmies attack and outspeeds and traps it for example scarf tyranitar. Flygon can easily switch into predicted starmie and jolteons electric attacks.

I personally would change lucario to scizor because it takes earthquakes generally well and being able to dish out a 2hko with bullet punch. Also the fact that you can switch into outrage taking less than 25% damage and being able to stop the flygon with over powered bullet punch.

As for the movesets on this team I would consider giving jolteon choice specs with hidden power grass. Like the above poster suggesting that either starmie or jolteon would be suitable with a choice item. Jolteon deserves choice specs over starmie because it outspeeds most +1 gyarados after a dragon dance and specs tbolt causes instant damage to any pokemon that switches in unless there an electric resist.

For suicune I would suggest you use roar on suicune and revert back to 252 / 252 Bold. This provides your team with solid defensive pokemon as well as a phazer. You don't need to use offensive suicune since you already have a special offensive core of starmie and jolteon.

Suicune @Leftovers
252 Hp / 252 Defense / 4 Speed : Bold
Roar / Calm Mind / Surf / Ice Beam

For gliscor you should think about changing to a New MixMence considering that is a better stall breaker and causes alot more damage to your opponents team. With outrage and draco meteor that ohko's blissey and you take care of skarmory with fire blast.

GL with the team!
 
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I've been really pumped into getting into the competitive scene since February when I picked up SoulSilver.

I'm going to stick with the defensive Suicune and give it Roar...getting a new Suicune really seems like a pain. Her IVs aren't too good, but whatever...she'll get the job done.

I'm working on the Starmie right now....breeding a new one to look like this:

Starmie @ChoiceScarf
Nature: Timid - EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Ability: Natural Cure
Surf
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Psychic

This should take care of the revenge killer I was lacking. Now, onto Jolteon:

Jolteon @ ChoiceSpecs
Nature: Timid - 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Baton Pass????
Hidden Power Grass
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt

The sets I see show Baton Pass in Jolteon's Choice moveset, but I just don't think I'm up to the level to use that...I mean, I just don't see how it's good. There's nothing to pass! Am I just scouting? *Googles for a bit* After looking at Jolteon's moveset, I think I understand why they've got Baton Pass in there - there's really not another option. Charge Beam or Signal Beam are there, but either move just doesn't really do anything. Baton Pass can be used without worry of being Choice-locked in it since Joltey would be switching out. So, is that the right move for the set?

I'm really torn about using Mence. I told myself I wouldn't use one...just to stay away from being totally cookie-cutter. What about a Dragonite? I feel the same way about Scizor as the Mence, but not quite as strongly. I really love Lucario, but I understand the idea with Scizor and am willing to try it out.

If I can only change one, Gliscor or Lucario, which should I change?

Thanks, guys!
 
Jolly on the Luacrio instead of Hasty?? since there are no Special attacks on it. Also Adamant works fine too.
 
Last bump. Changed first post to incorporate all the help I've gotten. Thanks again dudes for helping me with my first team. It's going to take a lot of work to get it set up for wifi, but it'll be worth it. Should keep me busy until B&W
 
Okay sorry im a tad late but i figured id add a little input here..
Firstly: Swap Overheat onto Infernape inplace of fireblast simply because against a machamp you dont wana be missing that crucial second hit. (You fake out + Overheat, he uses Dynamic Punch which takes u down to BP'ing area, u switch to suicune and take the BP cos he dont wana die and u KO with suicune)
Secondly: Your suicune, swap it for this:
Suicune @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid - 4 HP / 252 SpA Def / 252 SpE
Ice Beam
Surf
Calm Mind
Hidden Power Electric
Personally i like this more since it A) outspeeds a lot of things and B) takes many people by suprise.
But most importantly, if you do that, your basically preventing a breloom from setting up on you due to it being faster.

and definately scizor over lucario.
 
Aeolian said:
Okay sorry im a tad late but i figured id add a little input here..
Firstly: Swap Overheat onto Infernape inplace of fireblast simply because against a machamp you dont wana be missing that crucial second hit. (You fake out + Overheat, he uses Dynamic Punch which takes u down to BP'ing area, u switch to suicune and take the BP cos he dont wana die and u KO with suicune)
Click to expand...

Fire Blast won't miss due to No Guard.
 
Hey there,

I didn't really read the RMT, just read about your lead and Scizor/Lucario
One thing I have been experimenting with myself is to replace Fake Out with Grass Knot on Infernape. Swampertleads are becoming more and more common and Fake Out doesn't really help you anyway, as Fire Blast doesn't OHKO Azelf after Fake Out, and as you wont survive to get in Blaze-range you wont be able to abuse that.

Another thing I saw is that you said Scizor is getting eaten alive by entry hazards; Not true. Scizor takes normal damage from Stealth Rocks and is immune to Toxic Spikes. The only way to make him fare better against entry hazards would be to give him levitiate and change the bugtyping to rock, wich of course isn't possible.

As your the Scizor set, I'd recomend running a Bulky Swords Dance variant, EVd like this: 252Atk/244hp/14Spe and running Roost over Bug Bite. As Bullet Punch will be your primary attack, the speed EVs aren't really needed.

If you like my changes (I know most people wont cause they refuse to think outside the box.. blehh..) PM me and I'll rate the rest of the team. The reason I didn't read it all now is because.. dinners ready.

~ Strik3
 
You don't need a Psychic move on your team since Psychic has awful coverage. Just use Trick instead so that you can screw Blissey over which walls 1/2 your team and Inferanpe is a suicide lead that won't last long, so your best option for dealing with it is to switch Gliscor in (hope you don't get hit by Ice Beam/Toxic), Taunt it so that Lucario doesn't get crippled and then switch Luke in, so yeah it is kinda hard for you to deal with.

I've actually been a fan of Signal Beam on Jolteon since Shadow Ball doesn't OHKO iirc and it also hits TTar on the switch in, so give that consideration but yeah generally scouting counters for Jolteon is better, even though Signal Beam must be commended due to the 2HKO it gets on TTar that go light on HP and SDef (looking at DDTar).
 
If you want an attacking Bug-type move on Scizor then go for X-Scissor, not Bug Bite.

(U-Turn could also potentially work but that is more popular on CB Scizor)
 
It's not a bad team for a first try. Congrats on that!

Bug Bite is stronger than X-Scissor because of Technician. However, since you seem to need Scizor to take some hits, you'll probably want that bulky spread that Strik3 suggested a few posts above mine, and maybe even using Leftovers over Life Orb. It's much easier to get to +6 attack like that, which is easier than sweeping on a time limit (LO recoil) with only +2. Also, you won't take Earthquakes as well as you might think you would with your current spread. For future reference, only CB Scizor really gets "torn apart" by entry hazards, since it often switches in and out repeatedly due to the nature of U-turn, which racks up entry damage quickly.

Trick is better than Psychic on Starmie for a few reasons. First, Psychic is Pursuit bait since most Pursuiters are either immune to or resist Psychic. Second, it has bad neutral coverage due to the Steel-prevalent metagame and it only really hits Gengar harder than your other moves. Though you do seem to have some trouble with Gengar, Starmie isn't the best answer to that. Also, Modest can be used just as effectively on Scarf Starmie since you still outspeed +1 base 100s (Salamance), and the power boost is very welcome.

Rest is better than Roar on defensive Suicune. I know your reasoning for making this change, but cutting Rest really limits Suicune's survivability and defeats the purpose of using this Suicune in the first place. If you really want Roar as well, cut Ice Beam for Rest on your current set and you'll have the best of both worlds.

I'm not very good at analysing a team for threats it's weak to, but I can suggest changes to make for problems that are brought to my attention. If you've noticed any specific pokemon or strategies (i.e. CM Rest) that give you trouble, I'll come back and give a better rate.
 
For a first team, this is excellent. However, I'd like to suggest some changes that could help.

1. Drop Psychic on Starmie - it's just ScarfTar bait - and replace it with Trick; it helps immensely versus CM Cune, CurseLax, and other bulky setup sweepers.

2. Drop Jolteon, I don't see it accomplishing too much for you. Also: Change Suicune's set. Bulky Cune isn't bad at all, but I think for your team, an offensive variant would play much better.
Timid@Leftovers
252 SAtk/196 Spe/60 HP
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-HP Electric

The EVs let you outrun Adamant SD Lucario [who else gave you trouble] and +natured Heatran, while retaining some bulk. Overall a great poke I've used with success in the past.

3. Change Scizor's set. For an offensively-based team like yours, and since you already have an SD sweeper, I believe the CB version would help you with denting the opponent so Suicune/Lucario can sweep.
Adamant@Choice Band
252 Attack/248 HP/8 SDef
-Bullet Punch
-UTurn
-Superpower
-Pursuit

The standard set; I run 8 Special Defense over Speed since I find the speed useless and the extra sp. def helps when switching in on things like Starmie. Try him out.

4. Change Lucario's nature to Adamant, or at least Jolly; there is no reason to needlessly lower your defense like you are doing with Hasty. Personally, I prefer Adamant, as thats all you really need, but if you want to run Jolly for the extra [useless imo] speed, be my guest.



Like I said, very good for your first attempt, good luck.
 
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